I think that we, the Western World, should not only try to get to know Islam better, but also all other religions and thought systems of the world.

It's got nothing to do with Islam itself, and everything to do with needing an ENEMY.

When I was growing up the ENEMY was the Soviet Union. We directed all our hate at the "Iron Curtain".

Before my time it was the Jews. Anti-Semitism of the entire Western World is what allowed Hitler to get his start. WE didn't care that he was rounding up Jews for some reason, because the Jews deserved it, after all.

Before that it was emancipated blacks.

Before that it was....

Before that it was....

All the way back to the original ENEMY, the Ottoman empire, which we hated so badly we sent our children on crusade to die.

The western political system functions in such a way that present and incumbent leaders are politically strongest when there is an ENEMY. As a result, there always will be an ENEMY, even if we have to make it ourselves.

I grew up with muslims as friends and we certainly didn't have any problems I was told that the only difference is that they do not believe that Jesus is the son of God they do believe he was a great prophet. They believe in one God the God of Abraham. Through the line of Ishmael.

I ain't afraid of Islam. I ain't afraid of Judaism.  I ain't afraid of Christianity.  I ain't afraid of atheism.  (Doing cowardly lIon impersonation)  C'mon.  I'll take you all on.  Put 'em up.  Put 'em up.  Any religion or political or social movement can be a scapegoat or an excuse for hatred.  You can worship your navel for all I care.  Unless you're an atheist, in which case you don't believe navels exist.

It would help if religions and churches preached acceptance of the other and placed value on other revelations of the Divine. Condemning acts of hatred against Muslims and supporting the majority of Muslims who simply want to live their faith in a free society and have no interest in "Islamism" or whatever you want to call the extreme forms of their religion would also be useful steps. I'm not sure if educating people about Islam is really the church's job or not (it is in UU'ism, but not necessarily in Christianity) but if they do it, they need to do it by building bridges with their Muslim counterparts and letting them help with the teaching. Bringing in the local Imam to address a church group or run a course on Islam 101, maybe. Our RE children's program visited the London mosque in the spring as part of just such a bridge-building/educational activity.

I have studied Islam academically and know Muslims personally (my son's best friend is an Ismaili Muslim) and have nothing but respect for their faith as a whole. I've even used readings from the Qu'ran in services at my UU fellowship. The whole anti-Muslim attitude (and the corresponding rise in prominence of Muslim extremism) that has arisen over the last decade or two has been extremely disheartening for me.

Mendalla

I view the term 'Islamophobia' as an invented term dedicated to one goal:  to make us Westerners feel guilty.  In other words, I recognize that I have a choice in thinking of it in that particular way.

I can choose to view that I live in a world that has already been 'created'.  All the laws, all the Social Games, all of our interactions have been created by other people.  And, often, with intention.

So, I think that those who feel guilty and/or believe in Islamophobia live in the BS (belief system) as Salman Rushdie talks aboot.

Here is A Tale from the Sudan in 1891.

What I think we should do is not give in to a moral panic.  We should be agnostic aboot our knowledge, in that I think we always have a choice and to recognize that when we hold something to be true, we are changing and influencing what we experience of the world.

Here is something that was knocked loose by your words here.  Lets see what else they knock loose.  A riff:

Tolerance and valuing other revelations of the Divine would seem to me to be an evidence-based thing.  A Christan believes in Faith-based ideas (including the Social Games like holding G_d above everything else).  How difficult do you think this is to do, to correlate both of these, together, without causing some mental paradox among the believer or a feeling that they are being attacked by the non-Christian idea?

My son's best friend growing up was Muslim, wonderful family. I personally dated a Muslim man for six years when I was younger.I work with Muslims and am friends with various cultures. I very rarely even catergorize them as "muslim" just as I would probably not catergorize my "Christian" friends as Christian. I do not consider myself islamaphobic, in fact I am intrigued by the beauty of some of the culture and some or the  misunderstandings that accompany it.

Sometimes I think, it's not so much that Westerners are islamophobic, BUT if they disagree with something, that card is sometimes played especially when a visible minority is involved. It can make it very hard to voice real concerns and have certain issues sidetracked. At the same time, yes there are some that are purely islamaphobic.

Fight Islamaphobia.  Watch LIttle Mosque On The Prairie.

Yes!

Yes, but they will not.

A neighbor of mine is a Sufi...as is the Imam in New York whose muslim center is being excoriated

by the stupid, ignorant, unAmerican, unconstitutional citizenry and congress. (I'm a yank...and

ashamed.) Thank that which is good for Mayor Bloomburg and The President....

Generally speaking, yes.

What would you have them do, and which religions are you talking about? Christian churches are the tool of the power elite. As such, they help promote anti-Islamic feelings.

It would help us Christians to know more about the Muslim faith so that we can evangelize to its followers.

Fight against quality television. Watch Little Mosque on the Prairie.

And conversly, so that Muslims could evangelize Christians.

I can only assume you'd be OK with that too..... right?

That has got to be my favourite thing about Jews...their live and let live policy regarding proselytization.  As it should be, and is supposed to be in Islam (unfortunately however, some feel justified in returning the favour in a world where so many people are trying to convert them).

Is there Islamophobia?  Yes

Are there are a lot of blatant lies spread about Islam?  Yes

Is there a fine line between Islamophobia and serious questions?  Yes

Can serious discussion and dialogue be held between muslim and non-muslim? Of course!  But both parties have to be completely willing.

As-salaamu alaikum, Ramadan Mubarak

-Omni

As president of the newly formed (right now)  Manoj Sood Fan Club (plays Baber), I would protest and call you an infidel.  Please send in your ten dollar membership fee.

I have to say, Little Mosque on the Prarie is quite good, and very canadian.

As-salaamu alaikum, Ramadan mubarak

-Omni

LMAO

Jae, you're nothing if not predictable.

I think what Salman Rushdi says in the video clip bears repeating.....there IS an enemy, in the form of Islamic extremists, and the people who are suffering the most from that extremism are Muslims.   And just as we can't allow Fred Phelps to define Christianity, we can't allow   Ahmadinejad to define Islam.  At the same time, we can't permit ourselves to stay silent when human rights are abused because we are afraid of appearing intolerant.   I don't believe we are doing anyone any favours if we, say, shut down discussions about the wearing of burkas, for fear of being called Islamophobic.  On the other hand, saying anything about any issue without first carefully listening, asking questions and seeking understanding with an open mind is very likely to be harmful.    It seems to me that churches can model this search for understanding, while standing against injustice - but perhaps the most important thing they can do is to empower Christians to go deeply and seriously into their own faith, and to act on the love and compassion they find there.

I think there is a degree of Islamaphobia. The biggest problem is that some individuals (mostly conservative politicians) are deliberately stoking that for short term gain for themselves and thier cohorts. It is actively and deliberately being fueled.

A Trinity of Ayaan Hirsi Ali, who has been talked aboot on WC before.

The nut:  the problem is with Islam, the belief, not with Muslims, the people.  "Muslimophobia" should not be confused with "Islamophobia".  Encouragement and defence of Universal Human Rights should not make one ashamed or guilty.

I think the problem here is that Islam is in a different position than Christianity was when it was as old as Islam is now.  Christianity had time to grow and mature, and change with the times.  And for the first 800 years so did Islam but their position was compromised by western imperialism and a rise in blind fanatacism.

Basically the arguement against Islam is one that would be leveled against Christianity or Judaism if it were in the same position today.  "Let's not give them the time they need, let's declare war on a faith".  Is the damage and effect of radical muslims more noticable than most other sources?  Well, if you talk to anyone but graeme, yes.

Everytime a muslim tries to be a reformer, or a moderate, they on the one hand are being berated by the radicals for betraying their faith, but if that weren't enough, they are also being berated by the non-Muslims. "They are good despite being muslims" is what they would say.  It seems less and less people are making the way open for Islamic reform and Kalam (the Islamic Theological Dialectic method).  They are driving moderates into extremism, and putting them into a position where it's "My way (whatever position the speaker is in, be it religious or non-religious) or the highway (extremism)".

Yea, so I'd say that the moderate Muslim being under seige is an apt metaphor.

Also, Ali's point about "you have only known freedom you cannot speak to..." is moot.  Perhaps she has a better appreciation of the freedoms of american, perhaps. In her mind she certainly does.  But that is no justification to stifle debate and discussion on the topic of freedom.  Saying "don't complain, because you're better off than ____" is so moot it's not even funny.

As-salaamu alaikum, Ramadan Mubarak

-Omni

abpenny found this wonderful article about Airdrie United Church sharing their worship space with the local Muslim community.  It's a wonderful read...

Airdrie United Church opens doors to Muslims

I think this ground has been trod well - the only thing I'm going to throw out there in my opinion, is it is so important for all faiths to at least comprehend each other in this day and age, simply because it is a global village/small world/all those platitudes, and it is sheer folly to assume one group has the only way to the truth. I mean, obviously I know what I believe, and have come to that as an adult after incredibly careful thought and consideration, and I'm comfortable with it. But I am human, and as such am as prone to make mistakes as the next person. If I believe in X religion, and someone else believes in Y, they're going to think I'm making a mistake, and vice versa, where really, no one in this world knows that for sure - hence the term 'faith', not 'knowledge' or 'certainty'.

The one other thing I want to add - while it is incumbent on all of us to be aware of and tolerant of our neighbours in faith, it is also incumbent, based on what I said before, for anyone of any faith who understands the above, to put their faith's best foot forward and do their best to counteract the damage done by those who are more closed-minded, less tolerant, more fundamentalist. The people put in most danger by Islamic terrorists, for example, are moderate Muslims. It is the more hellfire and brimstone-type Christians who set the public tone and reputation for those of us who understand that Jesus preached love and inclusivity - was indeed more pleased with a good-hearted Samaritan woman than an impatient/unhelpful Israelite. So to bring this back specifically to CH's question, while everyone must work harder to understand the Islamic faith, it is also incumbent upon moderate Muslims who know the score to let it be known they exist, and the Islam feared by non-Muslim westerners is not Islam as they understand it.

I've been hesitant to jump into this thread myself because I worry I'll end up talking about how awesome Omni is... and... well... his ego is big enough already.  

So, a different approach...

I believe that it is most certainly the church's job to step in and educate congregations on the highlights of Islam.  This could be in the form of a Sunday morning reflection, a midweek multi-faith education series, or something like that.  Normally, I would be hesitant to say the church should jump in -- but since many fearful and ignorant "Christians" are using their faith as a tool for stirring up hate and anger, and since it is a misunderstanding of the other's faith that is instigating this, I believe the church should step in.

I've said it before and I'll say it again -- I firmly believe, without a shadow of a doubt, that the key to creating peace in this world is to understand each other.  How do we understand each other?  We listen to each other.  We learn from each other.  And this means listening and learning from the direct source, not some misinformed secondary source.  In this case, it would mean having an open and honest discussion with a member of the Islamic faith community, rather than gathering information from Fox News.

One of the BEST university courses I ever took was World Religions.  In it, we approached dozens of religions from around the world from *within* the context of the religion itself.  So, in the two weeks we learned about Islam, we looked at it from within the perspective of that faith.  (Rather than saying, as predominantly Christians, how does our faith compare and contrast with Islam?)  If you do what we did in the class -- if you can talk to somebody who will help you understand all that -- you learn what the central tenets are of that faith, you learn about the "varieties" and "flavours" of that faith, and you learn what is important to the people of that faith.

Why am I hammering away at all this?

It's EASY to hate someone you don't know -- that mysterious and vague "other" that lurks in the shadows and lives in far off distant lands.  It's EASY to categorize and stereotype a group of people if you know nothing about that group of people.  Once you take the time to learn about these people, to find out what is important to them, to learn about who they are and what they stand for, it removes the distance that made them the "other."  Now that person is your neighbour and your friend.  It's HARD to harbour blanket hate for your neighbour.  It's HARD to hate someone you know so well.

There are, of course, always people who will continue to hate and discriminate after this learning process, but for most people I would wager that the hate reduces, if it doesn't disappear altogether.  Usually when I hear someone make discriminatory or hateful comments, they are based on completely inaccurate information.  (A friend of mine tried to stir up disgust in me over Buddhism by telling some "facts" about it -- I just shook my head sadly -- I knew the real story behind what he was talking about and knew he was way off, and I have great respect for Buddhism.  The same goes for Islam -- the people who say something against it have, more often than not, been totally wrong in their "facts.")

I used to work in a church and I have done a few Sunday morning services.  Twice I have talked about Islam in a very positive light.  The first time, I talked about my trip to Bosnia, a predominantly Muslim country, and spoke of how faith was helping the country heal from its war-torn past.  The second time was about discrimination and I spoke briefly about Islamophobia.

I think Witch is quite correct, way up at the top of this thread -- society looks for an "other" to hate.  Right now, one of those "others" is our Islamic neighbours.  If we can do our part to spread peace and understanding, then society will have to look for a new "other."  (Upon which we'll have to do our best to shatter the hatred and misunderstanding about that group... but that's a challenge for a later day.)

Another crucial opinion of mine is that we CANNOT leave the breaking down of hate to the victims themselves.  Omni puts up with a lot here and elsewhere, but he is only one man.  We need to stand up as a community and do our part to show that we are united against hatred and misunderstanding.  When our peers say something discriminatory or hurtful about an "other" -- we need to speak up and say that is not acceptable.  It takes courage to do that, but it is necessary.  I struggle with it sometimes because I've got one friend who just spews misinformed discrimination about any non-Christian group you can think of -- but I've made a commitment to myself to be more vocal about what is and what is not acceptable.  (And, really, as a student of equality studies, I should become more committed and vocal about these sorts of things.)

I know that some of you reading this will write me off as being an idealist with my head in the clouds.  Simple fact is, I have SEEN this work with my own eyes.  I have seen misunderstandings and various -phobias reduce and disappear through the simple act of DIALOGUE.  That's all it takes -- dialogue!  It just takes a little bit of talking to learn about who the other person is and learn that they are not scary or dangerous.

Great Post YouthWorker

Youthworker - you've hit on one of the main reasons I'm so passionate about the public education system.  It all comes down - like you said - to how hard it is to demonize someone who has become your friend.  When I see kids from so many different backgrounds working together & playing together, it gives me hope.  And when kids become friends, their parents get to know each other.....and before you know it,  whether Junior's friend's Mom wears a hijab, or Junior has two Moms, stereotypes collapse into understanding, and our circles widen. ( I know what it feels like to be called an idealist.....much better that than a cynic!!)

There is an article on this topic at this link

I followed your link GordW and now i'm lost in a sea of interesting writings!  Damn you!

The part where the writer talks about asking their college students what comes to mind when they hear the call to prayer or see a minaret or dome reminds me of a show I watched on the military channel.  US soldiers were being trained to fight in terrain and building layouts similar to those they'd find in iraq and afghanistan, and the call to prayer was being blasted from speakers to unnerve them.  What a great way to promote islamophobia.

As-salaamu alaikum, Ramadan Mubarak

-Omni