i do hope that people at that school get suspended for wearing clothing with brands (eg Nike) visible as well

silly anal PC skool peeps...but that's what we get when we think that someone's offense gives anyone any rights at all...

(the rationalist in me is saying there HAS to be more to it than the t-shirt)

I feel that it was much ado about nothing.

The student should have been allowed to wear the shirt.

Those that objected to the implications and message should have been encouraged to discuss the issue and grow in maturity and tolerance.

There is no need to require that the person wearing the shirt attend the discussions although it should be open to that person.    The big issue is how we process and deal with viewpoints that we do not agree with and find objectionable.   There is the teaching moment.

Regards

Rita

I was tempted to start a thread about this but Aaron has beaten me to it.  I sometimes wear my WonderCafe T-shirt to bowling or other casual activities.  I also have one from a youth even with the word "Connected" and the outline of a jigsaw puzzle on it that was worn at a Youth event.  So, yes, I am guilty of wearing clothing with religious slogans. 

Is there a time and place for these?  Perhaps worn casually but not to school?

Are some words or slogans simply stating who you are, or are some carrying a message to others that may be offensive, whether intentional or not?

Should all words and slogans be banned from wear at school?   Who decides?  What about symbols?   A rainbow might just indicate a love or colour.  

Apparently this t-shirt indicated that Life is wasted without Christ.   Was that a statement of the boy's beliefs - that for him life without Christ is wasted?  Or was it intended to indicate that for everyone - atheists, and those of a non-Christian religion - life without Christ is worthless?     Since it could be interpreted either way, I think it would have been wise for him to agree not to wear it. 

Now it has been blown out of proportion - with his father signing him out of school and not permitting him to attend classes that discuss the ways our words and actions (including slogans on t-shirts) can affect others. 

Pity

On one hand, I agree that the kid shouldn't have been suspended for wearing the shirt. That was extreme...for some, brand labels can also be offensive because they are class/ status symobls (look what I can afford to buy).  On the other hand, I wonder if it would be better to just have school uniforms (same for girls and boys even--gender neutral).  School uniforms have worked in places like the UK. It kind of levels the playing field with regards to social status and religion, so that the issue of tolerance can be more objectively discussed. Small jewelry, like a cross around the neck, aren't  in people's faces prosletyzing...but t-shirts with slogans can be, and i am just not sure that kind of tension creates the best learning environment for kids at school. What they wear outside of school is a different story. Now, when I was a teenager, I would have strongly objected to the position I just presented! ;)

I think that the student in question should have been asked to not wear said shirt to school.

I'm torn.  Ordinarilly, I don't mind dumbasses advertising their bigotry for all to see.  In this case, a student telling other students through his apparel that their lives are wasted?  The kid is an idiot, and while that's not a suspendable offence, devaluing the lives of others, I suspect, is.

Again, this shirt isn't promoting Jesus by calling him "great", or "the best messiah ever" - it's promoting Jesus by devaluing other beliefs.

In any other public setting, I'd have no problem with it.  Let the kid get his views shredded, and move on.  They'll be shredded in his high school as well (there is already opposition), so maybe you allow it...but I can see why they didn't.

I would have to agree...but I do think suspension is extreme. However, even if the student were asked not to wear the shirt to school...I am pretty sure the story would have received attention just the same.

I remember in high school, so much grief over what was cool to wear or not, about pack mentality, bullying over what people were wearing...so it isn't just a religious issue. That's why I brought up the idea of school uniforms.

From the article:

The five-day suspension handed to Swinimer last week reportedly followed attempts to work out a reasonable compromise and previous in-school disciplinary measures. Other students have complained Swinimer is aggressively preaching his religion to them against their will and that he has told them they are going to hell.

So, the kid has been an asshat for weeks, and now refuses to stop wearing a t-shirt that devalues his peers.

I kinda get the impression that the school has spent weeks trying to work out compromises, and ran out of patience.

it would seem so chansen....

The shirt itself would not be an issue in my opinion.

A public school is not a venue for aggressive preaching and there I do have an issue.

Perhaps this is another christian out to earn their persecution badge??????

There is always so much more to a story.....

Thank you for bringing that up chansen.

Regards

Rita

If it was merely the t-shirt, then calling his attention to the possible problem would be enough. In the end, that would come under freedom of expression.

If it's part of a larger behaviour pattern of aggressively preaching and browbeating other students with his beliefs, essentially religious bullying, then stricter measures are warranted.

Mendalla

Freedom of expression can be limited in certain circumstances though, as appropriate.. I am thinking of team uniforms, hospital uniforms, etc. They serve a purpose but limit freedom of expression. So, if the purpose of going to school, mainly, is to learn the subjects being taught, and for kids to learn to socialize and get along..."freedom of expression" in some cases might impede the learning process because it creates an "us and them" environment..

Problem is, the media has to give the story an edgy title, so "Kid Expelled for Jesus T-shirt" it is.  Then, all the lemmings start commenting on these stories about how it's wrong to keep Jesus out of schools!

Lowers your faith in humanity.

Is it genteel Christianity, or ruagh Juda-ism to tell an alien heis going to 'elle?

Somehow I fail to see this as patient and virtuous as cramming crap down the guests throat and telling him its good for him ... Nos'Hite!

Then if God is good perhaps some think it good to cram Caligula down the common passover to internal parts of strange space ... the Moab/Moe'ß mind ... causing Hebrew to become approximately sic ...  that's near but not like hoe-shoes ...

God is extemely flexible as proven in past history of the corruption of indiginous tongues ... they need to be passed thro' etuÐé-ante ... parse 've forethought? Then is there any better Sufi Scholar than one stilll admitting that heis learning about all-that-is ... in the river Pison with authorities like crock aD isles and hype a' potty Mouç? That could be potty mouthin another twist of tongues ...

Rare or thin string theory about fabrications that some take as stone hard ... can't get over it for even more difficult come back at cha ... Egos, E-g'ost of just a flaming elle in Rae versed times ... 

Yah need to know a lot of strange symbols to unreavel them lines ... aComplex Fabric with loopes Cosmological tapestry? So much we don't know about incidents in alien dimensions ... the non-collected mind? Verily Une Ecclesia ...

Tae's hirt you know if not removed adequately ... after a thorough whetting of the desert overhead ... that' aD, or aL in some old tongues ... can you Tiye in the disconnect between alien D's an eL's as r's?

That it does chansen ... that it does....

Regards

Rita

You mean a myth is profound and not superface-L like some Christians get right in your face?

I don't get IT ... they steer clear of me ... say I'm crazy with light lem'd words of course in Hebrew Lem is tha hart of god without  souls ... souls are rare cases ... out-of -'eiresy ... banned in the temple ... by fear of all foggy notions ... love and thought ... that latter casting Shadow over palin ... plain?

Arrogant, ignorant, offensive and derisive… and totally untrue: it is NOT about Jesus but about whoever brainwashed the brat into wearing it: BAN it! Counsel the kid.

The kID is probably now beyond help ... as juvenile psyche will tell you from case history ... another Christian brat worst for the encounter as a real weiner ... like a thorn in theis ide ...

I would have liked for my kids to have been presented with a school uniform.  It doesn't have to be expensive or outlandish either.  I suggested black pants or skirts,  royal blue T shirt/ sweater or sweatshirt (regular round necked style - no logo).  Gym shorts to be plain black and adequately cover the underwear to be worn with a royal blue t shirt.  The school could easily buy at wholesale prices and sell clothing cheaply to the students. 

If left to me schools would not permit any logo clothing - any revealing clothing - any slogan clothing.  One of my kids purchased a t shirt that advertised a beer brand.  When he turned up for breakfast wearing it I quietly pointed out that it wasn't apppropriate for school.  He ignored me. I repeated my words.  He said he could wear whatever he wanted.  I agreed - yes he could, but he wouldn't if he wanted a ride to his evening soccer game! 

DESPITE IT BEING exam day, some students at Forest Heights Community School took time to discuss religious beliefs and freedom of speech Monday, though William Swinimer, the student who sparked the debate, wasn’t part of that discussion.

His father John pulled him out of the school when he arrived in the morning following a five-day suspension for wearing a T-shirt that said Life is Wasted Without Jesus.

Swinimer said neither his son nor his daughter will return while such debates are going on.

“He will not attend this school unless they are having readin’, writin’ and ’rithmetic, good old-fashioned academics. When they’re having forums, when they’re having other extracurricular activities, he will not attend that school.

“The taxpayer is paying for him to learn his academics as well as the other students, and I am not standing for any of

this stuff.”

Discussions did take place during the day and again in the evening without the Swinimers.

Either all the kids can wear their faith-related shirts in the public school, or else none of them can.

That's how I see it.

Rich blessings.

It not about faith it's about t shirts that tell other students they are bad.

It5 again an old tatic of wearing a tshirt that says queers should die, and than claiming it's about religious be;\lief and not the statement that Queers should die. 

It's only my faith they claim, 

Actually it's about devaluing people/ teens who hold other beliefs, It's about walking a life in hate and disregard for others. Once we start placing higher values on peoples life based on x criteria, we are also mocking the message of Jesus.

Which is all human are equal in God's eyes. All people deserve dignity and the equal rights to life.

As usualy the Taiwanese Animation people have made a hilarious video about this.

Kathycurler:

 I would have liked for my kids to have been presented with a school uniform,,,

When I first moved to Canada=land (1960) I was surprised and then delighted to learn that

in Montreal uniforms were obligatory -- my two young girls liked 'em ,and Wow! the money you save! Clothing two young girls  is a fiscal drain...as I think many will attest...

A good idea for many other reasons...a democratising thing for one...

One point I tried to get across to the school administartion was that a uniform removes most of the opportunities to 'grade' students on the dollar value or shock value of there garments.  The story I shared about my son and his beer advertisment shirt was typical of events in our house during that time of raising teens. 

They had a right to be fed, clothed, housed, educated and encouraged to pursue individual activities.  They had a responsibilty to eat what was available, dress appropriately, attend school and be polite - infractions resulted in parents removing privilidges like rides to soccer games or the borrowing of a parent owned car.  Teens who wanted different food, different clothing, acceptance of there skipping out of classes, unlinited access to a car etc - were encouraged to pay there own way to do these things.  

Hi Alex,

Hilariously over the top!

Grace and peace to you.

John

Alex,

Liked that ... the cross can beat the devil down ... but I learned in my religious upbringing that knowledge is the devil (tree in the garden of sans; it's without, or beyond). Of course I never took to it well and became and outlier ... sort of regressive as a hermit.

Why some people shun me and a relative few read my profound satire ... thet see something there that most don't. I do have some attachments in the emotional dimension though ... sort of begs my psyche to move on ... into bigger and better dreams ... rich thoughts?

Religious and fixated authority can't move ... stuck on the old ideas as dangerous rather than a learng situation. The reflection is that they tell me to move on ... pure satire? Its like a double 11 ... perhaps àdeuced ... out there ... can't do it while fixed ... that's a bum steer ... de nuið ... that could be night ot niche in modern twist of tongues to hide ancient wiz-dum that we're embarassed by ... but won't let go of useless thoughts .. that have no end toem ... or is that Tøom ... and old word for an ancient bo'quish ... many men find quish scary ... seems brutaly beyond em as scrabbled eggs ... yah have to break something to get there ... through de Wahl ...

The pool of words is a monster ... almost an occult form .. dark to most ... they don't understand the variants ... spectras ... of understanding ... God'splaed out ...?

I sometimes feel the same. Howver I believe that usually people who are original and outside the main stream are often understood by few or non. Howevr when understood by only one A, than A can be chanded and the idea or thought reaches a few more, and so on.

Look at Van Gogh. I loved the episode of Dr Who, where the Dr took Van Gogh into the future, because he doubted his abilities, sanity, and impact.

Doctor Who - Vincent van Gogh from pinkrobot on Vimeo.

When some is understood by all, it usually means "nothing new said" "nothing bew created"

"Bew created"?

Like the Hebrew "bo" that stood for the chaos that would create a new way of thinking (alien belief?) ... nos-hite the disattached would say ...

Consider the brain storm ... shocking in a world taught not to think by Roman bureau crazy ... would this see like Divine Comedy if we were to observe from outside our system? Did you ever wonder what's buried in the symbol of OBI ... which we don't need to know without desire to go there (goth-Eire)? Pure mneumonic ... that a myth, parable or other wise fued for the mythical ... psyche! So many don't believe their mind exists and untrained it could be a dragon ... maybe a Wahl or crooked Isle ... with teeth that could snatch you away into hinderlands ... the wilderness of heaven ... nothing lives there ...

Don't you love that symbol of two mains (hands) with that passing energy ... that's spiritual even from afar side humours ... a bloody odd character in splattered plasma?

I watched an interview where his preacher was encouraging him to wear the t-shirt and preach his faith.

My sense is the kid has issues and the preacher encouraged them.

Sadly, this is the kind of kid who could be pushed over the top.....

i dislike when we are missing key facts.