Oops! Forgot to copy the link. I still had the last one I posted in the copy/ paste memory. Lol.

This is it:

http://m.huffpost.com/us/entry/4558541/

Hi

It is said (by the Shoalins and others), that we are possessed by what we grasp. The lesson is made by using a glass jar with an opening just large enough to put slide a hand through, A ball is put inside and the teacher asks the student to reach in and take out the ball. The student can not, and the more the try the more they fail.

Those who have little, have less to lose. Perhaps they are more generous as a result.  I do not think that consumerism is more prevalent by one's wealth.

Those who are not religious can also be wise and compassionate.

I tend to think that religion is about reality --- or nothing at all.

regards

Hi Aldo,

I agree with you, it is about reality. I hope I didn't give you the impression otherwise. Perhaps I didn't explain very well (wouldn't be the first time). I was suggesting that these are the sorts of realities that Jesus' ministry pointed out- and that somehow, I feel that the loss of these lessons has led to a decline in compassion and a focus on self-importance and individualism.

Quote      "Does Money Make us Mean?". Apparently, yes it does.

The question is ---is it the money itself that makes people mean or the People that make the money seem mean -----?????????

Money is just paper ---by itself it can do nothing --it is dead --it doesn't move ---it can't talk ---it can't exchange itself ---it doesn't have feelings ---

So we can't really blame money for anything -----

The only way money has any kind of mobility is through people -----so really money is not your problem --people are the problem ---

This is what God Himself says about the  wealth aquired by worldly means ----

Money is for Kingdom Expansion

This is what God says about Wealth aquired His way ----which is used to expand this Kingdom by helping the poor and oppressed  ---- it is not for man's use to buy toys to play with like little children ----Every thing we own here on this earth belongs to God not us ------

Have you ever noticed that the saved can justify anything of excess? That's polity at its finest that causes a fog about anything of light ... levity when looked at from the other perspective ... anti-Krist?

I think Chanson spoke of this once ... maybe in plurality ...

You'll have to forgive me UNSAFE for thinking this way as I know you strictly grip Genesis 2 and the denial of knowledge ... thus the resultant beam befalls me as a critter of joyce ... happy to see things as shunned from the temple of God.

You know they appear different out here in the temple Runes? My mother said Runes were evil when they are just what remains of old myths ... this became Runnii in Gothic tradition where the Romans made it in to a thorn and in the gorse of things of nature ... it was a thorny issue that the Anglo Saxon referred to as randi! Those things going on in the Shadow ... sort of occult or the occipital portion of the brain as the recessed portion (close to a receding jinn)!

Some say it is magi-"c" the way that rabid thing appears ... light out of the darkness with the assistance of a well-read teacher who understands the true meaning of the unicorn and the one-eyed-one-horned flying gobbler of eM ... that might be violet or purple as the Shadow departs de Wahl?

De Wahl ... that's where the common people weren't to go! In allah gory this is reserved for de gods ... but few understand the real purpose of gods ... its a dila Torah thing ... allows knowledge to be extracted and worked over by greater powers ... and then you know you've its luce end ... or said another way you lost IT!

Progressive satyr-like probing of the Pi Gues ... what's out there with more than I can absorb ... without mythical rendering ... close to a grecean myth ... difficult to grasp for pure Roman Ticks? It is another form of madness without end ... imagine if heaven is full of such wisdom ... would that be hell to those that didn't wish to know?

Possibly why go fores are celbrated in fey brew Eire ... for those with their heads in de cups ... remember turkeys moderation in all gobbling ...

I have to stop now for my biere'ns ... just step outside the I for a bit into quantum space ... that which is an unknown upset according to Einstein ... "when there realtively ... you don't know what's up, down, top, bottom co-ire (strange) or charmed" such desires are just quarks! It appears there are ineffable outs ... but you should wait your turn ...

WaterBuoy     your quote    Have you ever noticed that the saved can justify anything of excess?

Cop out and blame game statement at it's best -----

Peace to you WaterBuoy ----

As history shows, religion does not necessarily make us more compassionate.

The most compassionate societies today probably are the Scandinavian countries. They have the greatest degree of social equality and justice, and rank highest on the "happiness scale," but are largely secular. They used to be staunchly Lutheran, but no longer are. In the words of Rick Steve, "good government has replaced religion."

I always wondered whether Lutheranism (meaning continuous reformation) might not logically or naturally lead to a secular humanistic society. This, of course, does not mean that such a secular humanistic society would not be spiritual.

To me, and maybe to many Scandinavians, science alone is spiritual enough. Science tells us that there is an eternal substance (energy) which can neither be created nor destroyed, that this substance is a singularity, and that there is a transcendental power or force at work that transforms the eternal substance from one form to another.

Energy, as a singularity, capable of transcendence, is a recipe for limitless creativity. This, to my mind, is all there is, and is what we are, and this is secular, science based spirituality.

... I once explained what eternal salvation is in Spinoza's thought to a professor of mine. His response indcated he undetstooId me. He responded by saying "Cold comfort." I seem to respond the same way to science.... its cold comfort.

I find life through Christ provides comfort, and provides more substance than theory. .... its that "upside down" stuff...

You're right, Arm. I suppose religion doesn't make people more compassionate. But, somehow, through some sources of wisdom other than science, it needs to be taught and reinforced to bring out that better side of our natures- and through role modelling. Jesus' stories such as the rich man, camel/ needle do this- and have done so, for those who 'got it' for thousands of years. Studying Darwin alone is empty in this regard, as is studying physics. If compassion is not a value being passed on somehow, it gets lost. In fact, if being compassionate leads to less 'success' in our society, and science can back that up even, it should not be any big surprise that it has gotten lost. Social Darwinism at work. Our social structures and systems have been built to accommodate this. Darwin would point to ruthless competition as normal behaviour even. Kids being taught that it's okay to compete to win even if the competitor loses all- to maintain success and status- and that's perfectly 'normal', even desirable behaviour in business- and it's all business nowdays.

Hi Aldo:

"Christ," to me, is a metaphor for the very unitiveness of the universe. And the experience of being united with, or at one with, everyone and everything, including the creative power or force of the universe, is an experience of Christ.

Thus, to me, the cold comfort of scientific theory is also the warm comfort of life in Christ. Only that, in my life through Christ, there is no need to believe in literalized mythology.

So, Kimmio, how do you explain the fact that largely secular societies, like the Scandinavian societies I mentioned, are the most compassionate in the world today?

To me, the feeling or experience of cosmic unity naturally engenders compassion. Feeling united with everyone and everything evokes in us a the emotion of unitive love.

Evoking the unitive experience evokes or awakens our compassion. This, I think, is more effective than mere moral teaching and preaching—to which I am not opposed! But, when we experience unity, then we feel an inner compulsion for compassion.

I don't know. It would be interesting to know how school is taught there- where the priorities are placed. I think that's key. If those same values are being reflected through other sources of wisdom, and people get it, I don't think Jesus would mind. ;) It's all Christ, in essence. Just like ruthless competition is Darwinian in essence.

Arm: How do you, though, teach a classroom of kids, "Okay everyone. Put your pencils down. Feel united with the Universe now." There has to be a process reflected in human and not just ethereal terms, through our actions and education here and now that leads to and/ or reinforces that understanding, and that process has to be a priority.

so... lets assume Christ (not the temporal one) is a reality in which we can existentially participate in. Lets assume compassion is part of that reality. Through being in that reality, we come to be compassionate.

Can secular folks tune into that reality?.... why not. If God in himan terms is a reality, we should find evidence of that reality.... which we do. 'Science' is set aside. I have experienced compassion (receieved and given). My experience existed... it is real. Is there more in that 'reality'? How do I find it? Now I have seen the unschooled and illiterate find it and be in it. I do not need to wait for science, or for me to learn science --- the stuff is before me and at hand.

I think the proof of the pudding is in the eating. The proof of compassion is in the giving and getting, which is also the way to find it and grow in it.

regards

Kimmio

I think you are right. I think the teaching or learning has to be practical, use-friendly and be able to demonstrate results for the seeker and in the seeker... doable steps and actions that speak for themselves from the 'real' results given to the user...

Arm, I wasn't refering to literalized mythology, but the lessons to be learned through understanding it.

I am in agreement. The only thing I would add, is that following a bare bones step by step process does not teach people how to open their minds to the deeper wisdom that can be found in the texts- whether it's the Bible or selected works of Dostoyevski. That discernment comes from reading them. One of the reasons, I believe, Jesus taught through parable. He didn't just come straight out with the facts and say, "Do this, do that." He not only taught through parable, but he taught us who have learned about him, that using that function of the brain is important.

Yes, unsafe. But I think you're ignoring the fact that it has been people who have set up financial systems and structures that produce that "paper" that makes it into our hands- to choose what to do with. And it has been set up to serve the love of money itself. The more we make, even if we intend to use it to help people- someone or group of people loses, so we can have that gain. And because of that, we all lose. That system does not have to be the way it is. When we look at the results of this system, the more money people have, the more money they want. And they are NOT spending it on those in need. Those who hold all the wealth are the least charitable, in terms of the portion they give away. Those who have the least, percentage wise, tend to give the most away.

And it is false to assume that hard work will=money, too. Under this present system that is NOT the way it is. That is why people do better under this system if they abandon ethics of compassion and take up ethics of ruthless competition. Money is the root of all evil (Timothy 6:10?). Especially set up this way.

Did anyone see on CNN last night that half the Congress are millionaires. Would this say anything about governments not having compassion?

Kimmio

your thinking is worldly ----you need to do as God says in His word -----

Unsafe, pardon my French but I think you have it ass backwards.

Kimmio  

If that is what you think then that is what you think -----

Peace to you Kimmio  

No, Kimmio, that would not be appropriate.

Because unity is the ultimate or basic state of being, in simply being we experience unity. Short meditation exercises, taught in school and hopefully carried beyond school, would be very appropriate.

I think children are naturally born into the unitive state of simply being, but the social process drums it out of us by teaching us to conceptualise experience and reality, until we cave in to the illusion that our concepts is what there is and what we experience. To get away from the illusion, all we need to do is to re-capture the original, pure and unadulterated (pun intended :-) experience.

Moral teachings are, of course, very appropriate. The pure experience of universal unity re-enforces the teachings because it compels us to be compassionate from within.

Yes, Kimmio, I know that your a not a biblical literalist or fundamentalist.

The moral lessons that can be learned by contemplating our sacred stories are very worthwhile.

One thing we do know, is we can't take a pile of money with us when we die. ;)

It is not thinking about how to better help the whole world that is 'worldly'- it is the approach of NOT thinking about how to help the whole world, in order to gain personal or tribal advantage, that the world favours at the expense of itself.

Kimmio    your quote    I am just sorry to see the gospels being used to justify the very same 'worldly' social Darwinian power structures that cause/ perpetuate oppression

You see the cop out here---Blaming the system not ourselves and using Darwin as our scape goat for our own bad thinking and greed  ---your comparing God's word with Darwinians power ----Darwinians has no power over God --- here you have Darwin as Satan ----The Babylonian system of this world is Satan -Darwin as you call him wants to opress --destroy ---etc ---God wants the opressed healed and healthy ----- 

The Bible Kimmio is God Speaking   -----God doesn't need to justify anything to us Humans -----the Gospels are used to Glorify God Not This World or us humans ------God owns everything in this world ----You Kimmio own nothing ---God gives you the ability ---you don't give God the ability -----it is us humans who disobey God  who have corrupted everything God made -----God gave the ability to humans to make the money we use just like he gave you the ability to get your job that pays you your money every pay ----God had a purpose for the money He has made ----We humans take God's money and use it for our own purpose ----- God has a purpose for everything and everybody that He placed on this earth and IT IS KIMMIO TO GLORIFY HIM AND EXPAND HIS KINGDOM ---we humans use God's things to glorify ourselves--- There lies the ignorance -----

Peace -

I think you're still missing the point unsafe. The money we earn doesn't fall from the sky. It is generated by a SYSTEM designed and set up by humans. If the system that generates the money itself is corrupt, how can you say it is from God. Transform the old worldy system that serves the interests of the wealthy into a new worldly system that is compassionate at it's core and recognizes the needs of every human being- then we are serving God, first, not expecting that God serves ourselves first. As long as the system itself is self serving, we can't serve God well with it (because we can't serve our fellow human beings who are disadvantaged, well, with it). You can't see that this system requires that many people be at a severe disadvantage- the wealth disparity is out in the open, obvious, and can't be ignored by pretending that to see and care about it is 'worldly'- so that a few others can be really wealthy. You can't help the world with a corrupt top down system where all the power to help is concentrated in the hands of a wealthy few whose advantage has more to do with greed than fair opportunity. A system whereby, workers in a factory can earn only a few dollars a day making goods that make the few really rich, richer, for example. The more that those relatively few people have, the more they want, and the less they want to help and share with it. It's been proven. The evidence is there, in the outcome. It's the source of the problem. It's not compassionate as God intended humans to be.

Hi Kimmio--After reading the posts here it looks like your talking about family. The unit all Mankind  is formed around. .  We carry that a bit farther though . As we think of our selfs  As Canadians - Americans-- Russians-- or other .In GODS Kingdom it is a family as well. We are Brothers and Sisters . We have a Father Who is GOD.The world don't understand this . Really nor dose the church.You have heard many say he or she is blood. There is nothing stronger.. So it is with GODS Kingdom. Christ Jesus is the way to be part  of the  family.With and through His Blood we are one .One with Him with GOD  The Father. One with all who will recive.I to believe a time is coming when the world will be made to understand. To Love there brothers  , to help one another and care for each other as family.I believe this is the plan of GOD. Until the world understands this . It cannot live in peace. God Bless--airclean33

We were always one family. It is those who didn't see it that had Jesus killed. He shed his blood because of that. And if we don't learn that, he died in vain. It wasn't the Sumaritan, for example, that Jesus talks about in his parable- that he had a problem with (even though that Sumaritan was from a different religious 'tribe'). It is understanding this at it's core that unites humanity. It's not about forming a tribal identity around Jesus, it's about forming a human identity around compassion- which Jesus represented, and still does. He has become a symbol of it- but it is not the symbol itself that we worship that makes a difference in transforming the world. It is the compassion that he represents through his life and stories that we follow. And then our life and stories follow him in the same Spirit of compassion. It's all about compassion as a priority, not tribal idolatry. We can't have a just and peaceful and cooperative world without compassion.

why represent.. why not is?

Is and represents- it's just that when Jesus is set up as an idol, people can easily miss the point and worshipping him can become exactly the opposite of what he taught. Christianity then becomes tribal and competitive and idolatrous, and not compassionate. Whereas, being Christian, if we recognize others who may not identify as Christian as part of our family too, the human family, through the viewpoint of compassion, not labels- I believe that's closer to what Jesus was about. And what Christ is, essentially. I don't believe those Bible stories were written so that we would turn him into an idol as the end goal. I believe they were written for us to learn and teach the lessons therein- and so that those who have taken them to heart can live and learn and teach and write- lessons by example, in the same life giving Spirit- and that is the eternal 'end goal'.

Kimmio   your quote    I think you're still missing the point unsafe

NO KIMMIO ---Your missing God's point ----   Because you value your point more than God's ----and you value this world's system more than God's

you can think as you like ----God made this planet --then God made man and put man in charge of this planet ---we are only stewards looking after God's stuff and doing a fine mess up job at it ----we humans are corrupt because we screwed up and are disconnected from our creator ----we are abusing and using what God has made for our own corrupt selves ----Greed and power comes because we humans think we need and want all for ourselves and if we have to give anything to someone else then we will be without -----putting ourselves in lack ----so fear of not having enough is our plague then the more we have the more we want and enough is never enough ----No one to blame but our greedy selves ------We need to stop our cop outs and blaming others and take responsibility for our own greed and the want for power and our fear of lack if we give out to others ----- 

God says this--- give and I will replace what you give so you don't have to worry about not having enough -----WOW ! WOW !What a Gracious God -----give to others who have not ------and I will give to you -----now that takes Faith -----Where you fall is you think God takes and doesn't give --you think the world gives and we get cause the world gives it to us ----and all we aquire is ours ----no so ---

If you're tired of what is going on in this world ---try God's way  ---do what God tells you to do in His word instead of criticizing and claiming the scripture is hard to understand ---it a mystery ----it doesn't say what it says ----it is not meant to be taken literally ----all cop outs by the way  ----the scripture above is easy to understand and it literally says Give and you WILL RECEIVE  --- 

Peace

Technically, he had a long nap in vain.

While unsuccessful naps are tragic, I still think they rank somewhere above dropped ice cream on the scale of unfortunate events.

Hear that, starving children? Your problem is that you don't give enough, and you don't trust in God enough.

Just listen to unsafe. She has the answers to end poverty and financial despair. No Christian who believes as she does knows bankruptcy, foreclosure, hunger, homelessness, or even WalMart.

You are under the impression that I revere the systems of the world in their present state when I have just outlined clearly how I hope they can change to be more compassionate and you are accusing me of being not godly enough in my thinking. I don't know what else to say. I can't make you get it if you take the automatic position there is nothing others can say that you can learn from- that God only works through you and others have nothing to offer.

You are under the impression that I revere the systems of the world in their present state when I have just outlined clearly how I hope they can change to be more compassionate and you are accusing me of being not godly enough in my thinking. I don't know what else to say. I can't make you get it- you take the automatic position there is nothing others can say that you can learn from- that God only works through you and others have nothing to offer.

You have never once, on this forum, been open to the possibility that you could be wrong about your understanding of something.

I don't want to fight with you unsafe. Enough's enough. I won't resond to your posts anymore. It's futile.

Kimmio     your quote    that God only works through you and others have nothing to offer.

God works though the people who try and do His word ----you can be a funnel for God if you want to do what He says in this word Kimmio -----this world uses you for itself which is greed and power not for God's purpose which is to serve others  ----Period ----

Peace

And what makes you think I don't serve others? (here I go responding to you again) are you under the impression that I am wealthy and greedy? And what exactly is it about me, and what I have said, that makes you think that?

Wow. You've really taken this around the bend and used my example of how we should be aware that the systems of the world operate on greed and power, to then accuse me of allowing myself to be used by greed and power to not serve greed and power! Hilarious.

Hi dreamerman      I am trying to figure out why you keep writing period.

Keep trying and just maybe you will figure it out -----

Peace and Happy New Year to you dreamerman

Is it because you're under the impression that if you write "----Period----", then you've made a point?

She writes it because she is absolutely right (righteous) and not willing to open her mind and heart to consider someone else's point of view and she wants to make that very clear- so there is no point in discussing it further (possibly no point in discussing it at all. She puts her point out there, not to be discussed. Simply obeyed. Because she knows and that's that). Spelling it out just ensures that we get that it's set in stone, like the tablets Moses wrote on, and not up for consideration.

Kimmio   your quote    Spelling it out just ensures that we get that it's set in stone and not up for consideration.

God's word is not up for consideration ---it is God's word ---it is truth ----there is no bargaining with God only obedience or disobedience ----Obey get the results for obedience ----disobey get the results for disobedience ---up to us -----it is called the Blessing or the Curse ---you choose ----can't blame anyone except self -----

Peace

God's word is inspiration not dead letters.

You mean, there's a worse fate than having to read your run-on sentences? I mean, there are even periods in the bible, so Jesus must have approved of them.

unsafe, why do you hate Jesus so much that you won't end sentences like he wants you to? Jesus loves you and he wants you to complete your thoughts and let others know by using the period, that most blessed of punctuation marks.

After all, did Jesus say, "I am the Way---- the Truth----and the Life-----No one comes to the Father except through me----???"

No, of course not. Jesus did not type like that. It was Jesus, after all, who taught Mavis Beacon how to type, and she went on to teach the world through reasonably priced CD-ROMs that often came bundled with PCs before the Internet took off.

So please, think of baby Jesus next time. Think of how he cries at the sight of multiple hypens that serve no purpose and paragraphs that have no idea where one thought ends and another begins.

Let Jesus guide your fingers to that key, unsafe. Let the Spirit guide you to the period key. It's right there, above the "Alt" key. No, that's the comma...Jesus wants you to learn that, too, but right now we need a period. The next one. No, that's a semicolon; you don't even want to think about how those are used. Even Jesus is confused by the semicolon key. Below that....no, that's a question mark. You never ask questions, so you don't need one of those. You want between the question mark and the comma....YES! There it is.

Now use it, unsafe. Use the pediod key to make Jesus happy. The Holy Spirit will always be there to guide you. If not, use a grammar checker. Your choice.