I have tried to spark some conversation on two different threads about the Trinity Doctrine with little success.
Does Trinity Docctrine mean something to you? yes or no
Does Trinity Doctrine mean nothing to you? yes or no
Should the doctrine not be a Sunday in the Church Year?
Thank you.
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Comments
redbaron338
Posted on: 05/28/2010 12:47
Yes, the Trinity means something to me, though over the years for me it's become gradually less a straitjacket to bind and more of a lens to look through.
No, there should not be a Tritinty Sunday. Every other season is based on or around events in the life of Jesus. This Sunday isn't. It's based on a doctrine. Why not a Predestination Sunday, or a Prevenient Grace Sunday too?
Gray Owl
Posted on: 05/28/2010 12:55
The Trinity is about reassuring people that what they get from Jesus is what they get from God, and the same for the Holy Spirit.
It is the foundation of the Christian spiritual cosmology. People had a hard time wrapping their head around a man having the same power as God. And the Holy Spirit was to reassure that God's Truth would be holding things together, despite the corruption of society, so have faith that the Truth of God surrounds you in your darkest days.
It's great. It's all you really need. If you pray to Archangel Michael you're also getting God, but that's too Catholic for Protestants. If you see a Hawk and pray for its message from God, you get the same, but that was jetisoned when Christianity was trying to get rid of civilized paganism's errors.
So we're stuck with that, very truthful, cosmology. There's so much more, but the Trinity is good to start from.
abpenny
Posted on: 05/28/2010 13:26
O.K. crazy...because you've been so DILIGENT in getting an answer, I thought about this while I was planting! I believe it does affect me in a very big way...but in my way. It's a body/mind/spirit connection to me.
Jesus is our every day existence and his teachings are practical ways to be with others in our world...God and Holy Spirit are mind and spirit to me...how we view life and ultimately, death, and the essence of what we are. Two people in the exact same situation, with the exact same upbringing could lead very different lives of joy or lamenting, because their mind and spirit are different. O.K....it's perfect weather for planting trees so I'll check back with you later for a chat, after I think on it some more...
crazyheart
Posted on: 05/28/2010 13:33
See, Penny. I must have been asking the wrong questions in the other threads.
Thanks you for the responses so far. they are helpful.
revjohn
Posted on: 05/28/2010 13:51
Hi crazyheart,
Does Trinity Docctrine mean something to you? yes or no
Yes.
Does Trinity Doctrine mean nothing to you? yes or no
No.
Should the doctrine not be a Sunday in the Church Year?
Thank you.
I think we need more doctrine Sundays.
Grace and peace to you.
John
crazyheart
Posted on: 05/28/2010 13:53
John, can you expand on what other ones you would want and why?
revjohn
Posted on: 05/28/2010 14:10
Hi crazyheart,
John, can you expand on what other ones you would want and why?
Can I?
Be careful what you ask for!
My wish list would be, in no particular order of importance . . .
Atonement Sunday. Where various views of atonement could be examined to show that Christianity offers a buffet in that department and not the same bit of stale crust that some continually gnaw on.
Charism Sunday. Where the various gifts of the Holy Spirit given for the edification of the whole Church might be discussed to counter the primary belief that if you don't speak in tongues you will be left behind.
Regeneration Sunday. Where the phenomenon of being born again might be taught without all the legalist claptrap that proves one has decided to be born again.
Grace Sunday. Where the doctrine of Grace could be plainly taught so that folk might understand that it is a gift and not something one picks and chooses or earns for one's self.
Predestination Sunday. A lot of people hate it though few actually grasp what it means. A whole day to try and teach the difference between predestination and predetermination.
Responsible Parent Sunday. Because sometimes God says, "No." That doesn't mean that God doesn't love us nor does it mean that we know better than God does.
Tulip Sunday's. Five Sunday's dedicated to the Five petals of the TULIP formula. How many know the five without googling I wonder? Reason enough for them right there.
Piety Sunday. Because being pious is not a bad thing. Pushing one's own piety on others is. Personal Piety is actually admirable.
Evangelism Sunday. Because every Christian should know what it is and how it might be done (and no I don't mean toss a tract at somebody or draw goofy throne diagrams).
Fundamentalism Sunday. Because so many of our liberal-minded members routinely equate Evangelicalism with Christian Fundamentalism and that is wrong. The tenants of Christian Fundamentalism would be discussed so that we might all have the knowledge of what it is that Christian Fundamentalism does well and what it does not do well at all.
Fundy Sunday. Because it rhymes. That and there is a difference between Christian fundamentalism and fundamentalists in general.
Others may have a wish list of their own to contribute. This is all off the top of my head and I haven't really sat down to prioritize.
Grace and peace to you.
John
redbaron338
Posted on: 05/28/2010 14:13
Hi RevJohn,
What?? No Prevenient Grace Sunday??
Peace, RB
John Wilson
Posted on: 05/28/2010 14:41
Does Trinity Docctrine mean something to you? yes or no
No
Does Trinity Doctrine mean nothing to you? yes or no
Yes
Should the doctrine not be a Sunday in the Church Year?
I have no opinion.
Thank you.
revjohn
Posted on: 05/28/2010 14:55
Hi redbaron338,
Hi RevJohn,
What?? No Prevenient Grace Sunday??
Peace, RB
Sure. If only to dispel the myth of Free-Will.
Grace and peace to you.
John
John Wilson
Posted on: 05/28/2010 14:58
John, can you expand on what other ones you would want and why?
Can I?
Be careful what you ask for!
A GREAT post!
If that was instituted, I'd go back to church!
Re: TULIP
I attended (for a short while) Knox College in Toronto, and mentioned TULIP to the professor who was delighted and said he hadn't thought of that in years :-)
Grace and peace to you also...and thanks!
seeler
Posted on: 05/28/2010 17:25
Crazyheart - at one time the doctrine of trinity meant a great deal to me. For me at the time it defined what a Christian was or believed. Quite a few years ago now I can remember preaching a series of sermons: one on God and the world, creation; one on Jesus, our brother, our teacher, God made flesh to live among us; and one on the Spirit at work arund us and within us. I summed it up with a sermon on the church and our response to belief in the Trinity. I thought it was quite good at the time.
I'm not sure I could preach those same sermons now - at least not without a lot of revising (but I make it a practice not to reuse my sermons). I think that these are three faces of God, but that God has many faces, many manufestations. I think of God as Wisdom. But I also think of God as the wind at my back, as an eagle who raises me up, as a rock solid in the strom, as a leader, as the ground under my feet, and as appearing in angels among us administering to us when we are down. For me God is not just one entity with three different ways of being, but one entity with a thousand ways of being.
So:
Does the trinity mean something to you? Yes, but not like it used to.
Does the trinity mean nothing to you? No, but it means less than it used to.
Should the doctrine not be a Sunday of the Christian year? No, because it restricts me in responding to the scripture passages. If I am leading the service I feel that I should at least pay some lip service to the Christian year and give recognition to the designation of Trinity Sunday, but I may feel a pull towards something else. For instance, this week I am attracted to the reading from Proverbs about Wisdom. Perhaps I could take it further or in a different direction if I didn't have to think how it relates to the idea of trinity.
I think that if I had to follow RevJohn's list of all the other designated Sundays, plus Christmas, Epiphany, Palm Sunday, Easter, Christian Family Sunday, Pentecost, Labour Day, Thanksgiving, Peace Sabbath, Remembrance day, Children's Sunday, and Reign of Christ Sunday - there wouldn't be many left that weren't dedicated to something special.
Mendalla
Posted on: 05/28/2010 18:51
I answer "yes" to the first (yes, I'm a Unitarian, I'll get to that in minute), "no" to the second, and "it depends on your church" to the last.
I say that the Trinity means something to me because while I do not believe that God = Trinity, I do see the Trinity as a powerful metaphor for understanding how we relate to and interact with God.
Mendalla
Tyson
Posted on: 05/28/2010 19:05
............. Fundy Sunday. Because it rhymes. That and there is a difference between Christian fundamentalism and fundamentalists in general...............
Not quite, brother. Fundy ends in a long e sound while Sunday has more of a long a sound. The endings of the two words do not match in their sound.
Wait......was that English fundamentalism?
Maybe you could be a bit more "hip" and call it Funday Sunday.
Dcn. Jae
Posted on: 05/28/2010 19:19
I have tried to spark some conversation on two different threads about the Trinity Doctrine with little success.
Does Trinity Docctrine mean something to you? yes or no
Does Trinity Doctrine mean nothing to you? yes or no
Should the doctrine not be a Sunday in the Church Year?
Thank you.
Yes. No. n/a, I'm a Baptist.
Neo
Posted on: 05/28/2010 19:22
The trinity means a lot to me. I see the power of the number three built into the very fabric of everthing.
From the smallest piece of matter, made up of positive, negative and neutral sub-atomic particles, up to largest and most esoteric concepts we can think of, i.e. the impersonal and Unmanifested G0D, the Manifested God-Universe of Form, and the Universal-Soul that links the two together.
Dcn. Jae
Posted on: 05/28/2010 19:26
Pick me, pick me, I know! Actually, though, I prefer ACURA.
Sounds good, although what exactly is it you think fundamentalism does well?
GRR
Posted on: 05/28/2010 20:53
Jesus is our every day existence and his teachings are practical ways to be with others in our world...God and Holy Spirit are mind and spirit to me...how we view life and ultimately, death, and the essence of what we are.
I'll just second penny. Well put.
Arminius
Posted on: 05/28/2010 22:12
The Trinity, to me, is any/every pair of opposites (the universal Yin and Yang), together with the transcendental power that unites and separates the two.
The traditional Christian version of the Trinity is—to me—a metaphorical representation of that.
blackbelt
Posted on: 05/28/2010 21:52
what happened to strawberry sunday? my fave
Arminius
Posted on: 05/28/2010 22:19
Hi bb:
The Principle of the Trinity also applies to your favourite ice cream: You either have it, or you don't, and what makes one into the other is the transcendental power of choice, carried out by the appropriate action.
revjohn
Posted on: 05/28/2010 22:25
Hi jae,
Sounds good, although what exactly is it you think fundamentalism does well?
Not fundamentalism. Christian Fundamentalism.
Fundamentalism is defined as strict adherence to a set of rules and often reactionary.
Christian Fundamentalism while also narrow and reactionary does get some of the "Christian" bits right.
Namely the bodily resurrection. Other bits are slightly off.
Grace and peace to you.
John
Dcn. Jae
Posted on: 05/28/2010 22:56
Namely the bodily resurrection...
southpaw
Posted on: 05/28/2010 23:43
Yes, the Trinity means something to me, though over the years for me it's become gradually less a straitjacket to bind and more of a lens to look through.
No, there should not be a Tritinty Sunday. Every other season is based on or around events in the life of Jesus. This Sunday isn't. It's based on a doctrine. Why not a Predestination Sunday, or a Prevenient Grace Sunday too?
....or a pre-Millennial tribulation Sunday, "The Unorthodoxy of Christian Humanism" Sunday, Dispensationalism Sunday, SuperBowl Sunday - oh, that's right, we already have that. Sorry
Beloved
Posted on: 05/28/2010 23:57
Greetings!
Yes, the trinity means something to me. God is God, Jesus is the face that reflects God to me, and the Holy Spirit is God here with me now.
I'm fine with the doctrine being part of the church year.
Hope, peace, joy, love . . .