I was having dinner with my grandparents yesterday when we celebrated my grandpa's 80th birthday. During our conversation, he brought up that in Genesis it says that we are promised to live to be 120 years old. The passage that says this is Genesis 6:3, "And the LORD said, My spirit shall not always strive with man, for that he also is flesh: yet his days shall be an hundred and twenty years." (KJV). I checked out some other translations online and they all basically say the same thing. I translated a Hebrew version (Westminister Leningrad Codex) using Google translator but a couple of the words didn't register:
וַיֹּ֣אמֶר יְהוָ֗ה לֹֽא־יָדֹ֨ון רוּחִ֤י בָֽאָדָם֙ לְעֹלָ֔ם בְּשַׁגַּ֖ם ה֣וּא בָשָׂ֑ר וְהָי֣וּ יָמָ֔יו מֵאָ֥ה וְעֶשְׂרִ֖ים שָׁנָֽה׃"
Anyway, I don't really know what to say to my grandparents about this passage. It's quite obvious that we are not all literally promised 120 years of life on Earth. What would be a more reasonable interpretation? I'd just like to have something to tell them in case they bring it up again.
For the record, they are Word of Faith and they like to watch televangelists. Their new favourite is Joel Osteen. They're not bible thumpers or 'preachers' but they do like to talk about the Bible and they are literalists.
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Comments
GRR
Posted on: 03/22/2009 14:17
The passage that says this is Genesis 6:3,
Yeah, and Psalm 90 is where the "threescore and ten" comes from - as well as "by reason of strngth fourscore."
I'm afraid I'm not going to be much help on the literalist front - grin - but I have a sci-fi interpretation: the aliens/Atlanteans/sons of God who "came in unto the daughters of men" had superior genes and that interbreeding, until it got thinned out over time (simple genetics) resulted in longer lived children.
More practically, our lifespans are increasing (in the developed world at least) as we get a better understanding of how the human organism works. Nothing exceptional about the idea of living to be 120. In fact, I saw a news bit not long ago that actually cited a study that used that as a "reasonable" expectation for life expectancy by the end of the century. On CTV I think, although I only noted it because of the correlation with Genesis - which they didn't mention btw.
Personnally, I'd go with "its cause they were bonking angels Gramma."
killer_rabbit79
Posted on: 03/22/2009 15:16
Thanks GR. Those are some good points. I remember reading a few years ago about a woman who died at 122 years old. She died some time this millenium. It's definitely causally possible that many more people could end up living this long, including my grandparents. However I don't think that the scripture was actually trying to say that we will all be guaranteed to live that long. A prediction of maximum life expectancy could work, and is consistent with the NLT translation:
Then the Lord said, “My Spirit will not put up with humans for such a long time, for they are only mortal flesh. In the future, their normal lifespan will be no more than 120 years.”
stardust
Posted on: 03/22/2009 15:33
Killer_rabbit
He's your grandpa! I'd tell him: "I hope you do live to be 120! " and I'd agree with him.
Your mission on the WC may be to argue with or question the literalists but if I were you I wouldn't extend it to my own family necessarily. An 80 yr. old man isn't going to do a lot of damage anymore whatever his beliefs. Genesis 5 says Noah had 3 kids when he was 500 yrs. old . Now if grandpa was talking like that I might worry! Noah was 950 when he died in Genesis 9.
A caregiver came to see my husband. She was telling me how she talked to the Lord in her car. Did I argue? No. I had been wondering where the Lord was so it was good to finally track him down....lol.
Audj
Posted on: 03/22/2009 17:28
If you read the context you will find that Jehovah is not talking about men living to be 120 yrs old. Because of the widespread badness that had filled the earth, God determined to bring an end to disobedient humankind. He set a time when he would do this, 120 years into the future. (Genesis 6:3) In setting that specific period, Jehovah took into consideration more than the destruction of the wicked, something that he could do at any time. Jehovah’s timetable also provided for the preservation of the righteous. (Compare Genesis 5:29.) In his wisdom, God foreknew when to assign the work that would lead to that end. He gave sufficiently detailed information to Noah. Noah was to build an ark “for the saving of his household,” and the wicked were to be destroyed by a global deluge.—Hebrews 11:7; Genesis 6:13, 14, 18, 19.
seeler
Posted on: 03/22/2009 18:12
Actually I've heard that with obesity and related problems, polution, global warming - the average lifespan for babies born today will be less than for their parents or grandparents.
I am approaching my three-score and ten and, although my parents both died young, I feel that I have a lot more good years left yet. I joke that I plan to live to be 100 but never grow old - ha, ha. I hope that my children and grandchildren will still be well and strong into their 80s or 90s.
Mate
Posted on: 03/22/2009 19:04
Having discussed this issue of years and numbers with a couple of theologians I've learned that the Hebrew use of numbers was not meant to be taken literally. If Mathusela lived to 900+ years what it is really saying is that he lived a very long life.
The comment that Jesus was in the desert being tested by satan is really immplying that he spent a long time in the desert.
900+ years is a long time when considering years. 40 days in the desert is a long time to be out in the desert. Then of course it rained for 40 days and 40 nights for Noah. That is one hell of a lot of rain. LOL
Shalom
Mate
Mate
Posted on: 03/22/2009 19:08
In those ancient days the average life span was some 35-40 years with the odd person living to 70 or 80.
If Jesus was crucified at 33 he was by then a relatively old man.
Shalom
Mate
killer_rabbit79
Posted on: 03/22/2009 22:47
Hi stardust, I don't want to argue with my grandparents. I would just like to be able to talk to them about something that they enjoy talking about and I would like to have something intelligent to say. When I was with them I told them that it is possible that they could live to be 120 and I showed interest, but I think they would also enjoy haing deep discussions about the bible as well.
Audj and Mate, looking into the Hebrew concepts of the scripture is definitely a good idea. Their context will obviously be different from the context derived from the KJV by modern Canadians.
seeler, that's too bad about today's children. Who's gonna support me when I'm retired and in the home?!
Mate
Posted on: 03/22/2009 22:50
KR
Another area to persue is "midrash" an ancient style of both writing and interpreting. Presently it primarily refers to interpretation. It is pertinent to both the OT and the NT.
Shalom\
Mate