Last time was yesterday morning, crossing a parking lot, on my way to work downtown.

Yes.

The ideas it contains are very important. I try my best to say it from my heart, to really express the meaning behind the words.

I say it quite often - yes I believe it and try to say it from my heart

It is the heart of Jesus' spiritual life. I say it very often. I study it. Understanding what the common Jewish words in it (Father, Kingdom, temptation, etc.) meant to him really requires us to understand the whole of his teachings. I very much agree with the person (whose name I can't remember now) who said that the ability to sincerely pray this prayer -- not assent to credal statements, or lightning bolt conversion experiences -- is what defines a 'Christian' in the deepest sense of the word.

at least one a month, it is a reg. part of our worship service, but I'm often out with the youth group or someone.

Sometimes it pops into my head when I need it.

Genius, painfully true that many people ignore much of it - particularly the forgiveness parts and the glory to God parts.

The part for me that is like a mantra:  Your kingdom come, your will be done on earth as in heaven. 

Now, I don't necessarily agree that God has personified 'will' same as what I have, but the goodness & harmony & justice of a kingdom world - heaven on earth, one might say, is the Will that I am 'willing' to happen.

http://aramaicdesigns.blogspot.com/2007/06/o-father-mother-birther-of-cosmos.html

Let me share this link - I've seen this guy's info in  more reliable, scholarly places, so it is reasonable to share, but I was too lazy to go hunting for a better source this early morning.

this gives a new twist/new perspective... considering these words are likely the original ones shared, perhaps by Jesus.

The Prayer To Our Father
(in the original Aramaic)

Abwûn
"Oh Thou, from whom the breath of life comes,

d'bwaschmâja
who fills all realms of sound, light and vibration.

Nethkâdasch schmach
May Your light be experienced in my utmost holiest.

Têtê malkuthach.
Your Heavenly Domain approaches.

Nehwê tzevjânach aikâna d'bwaschmâja af b'arha.
Let Your will come true - in the universe (all that vibrates)
just as on earth (that is material and dense).

Hawvlân lachma d'sûnkanân jaomâna.
Give us wisdom (understanding, assistance) for our daily need,

Waschboklân chaubên wachtahên aikâna
daf chnân schwoken l'chaijabên.
detach the fetters of faults that bind us, (karma)
like we let go the guilt of others.

Wela tachlân l'nesjuna
Let us not be lost in superficial things (materialism, common temptations),

ela patzân min bischa.
but let us be freed from that what keeps us off from our true purpose.

Metol dilachie malkutha wahaila wateschbuchta l'ahlâm almîn.
From You comes the all-working will, the lively strength to act,
the song that beautifies all and renews itself from age to age.

Birthstone that is a moving prayer - thank you for posting it

Birthstone -- Thanks and wow!  It shows that King James really didn't write the bible.  That is alive!

Thanks Birthstone! That is awesome.

I printed that in a bulletin once and boy did it raise eyebrows.  But then I used it as a discussion around hearing each other despite our differences - looking at things with fresh eyes opens up new ideas.  I talked about the prayer during the sermon, and then later we prayed it.  It worked very well.

It is very cool, though I don't naturally, comfortably use all that language myself.

The Lord's Prayer -

How long since you repeated it? ... Just over a half century.

Do you believe it? ... Yup, it exists - I've saud it 000s of times.

How important do you think it is? - Not.

Do you understand it? - Yuppers (YMMV)

My take is rather simplistic; I'll post it later...(It seems to me to contain a whole bucket- full of a lot of ignored Christian truth)... Often the case, no?

It appears to be such a universally recogniced entity, I wonder if you just mouthed it (As I did for years) or have really taken it to heart... Mouthed.  Absolutely not to heart.

Very nice Birthstone. 

My personal favourite is this version from New Zealand

Eternal Spirit, Earth-maker, Pain-bearer, Life-giver,

Source of all that is and that shall be,

Father and Mother of us all,

Loving God, in whom is heaven:

The hallowing of your name echo through the universe!

The way of your justice be followed by the peoples of the world!

Your heavenly will be done by all created beings!

Your commonwealth of peace and freedom sustain our hope and come on earth.

With the bread we need for today, feed us.

In the hurts we absorb from one another, forgive us.

In times of temptation and test, strengthen us.

From trials too great to endure, spare us.

From the grip of all that is evil, free us.

For you reign in the glory of the power that is love, now and for ever.

Amen
 

I take it seriously, but not literally. I particularly like the sung version, which we sing Sundays in church. I often sing it during the week at home, like yesterday morning, when watering our tomatoes.

It is hotter than Hades here in B.C. The parched land is thirsty for water, and people are thirsty for both H²O and the spiritual water of life.

Hi Happy Genius,

I do not keep a stop-watch for that purpose.  I could not hazard a guess as to how long it has been since I last offered the prayer in whole as it appears in scripture or in part.

I believe the lessons that it teaches, yes.

I think the lessons that it teaches and the model it presents are rather important.  I don't think it is all important.

Not sure of your intent behind the question here.  Do I understand what it means to address God as "Father" in the context of the time?  There are a number of interpretations that can be laid upon various phrases.  Are you suggesting that there is only one way to understand this particular prayer?

I can sort of agree with this.  It is a very heavily packed prayer.  It is theologically dense.  I suspect that density can be simplified although I have to admit that sometimes simplification is simply a dumbing down and I don't think that ever helps anyone.

I don't know that the truths the prayer contains are ignored so much as they are difficult to put into place.  Praying the prayer is talking the talk.  Living the prayer would be walking the walk.

I quibble at the universality.  It does lift up concepts that appear in other religions true.  And yet, there are subtle differences in those concepts once one crosses the religious divides.

Grace and peace to you.

John

I agree that the Lord's prayer is jam packed with very important biblical principles regarding our relationship with Father God.

The Lord's prayer also is a good model for attitude of prayer.

I had a dream about 15 years ago that I was in a rather large music studio.

I was alone in this studio but all the equipment was there & I was walking in this control room.

This melody started playing over these studio monitors, & morphed into a beautiful orchestrated music, but no words.

I used to keep a tape recorder by my bed so I could just remind myself of dreams & music in dreams, & I hummed the melody & recorded it right when I awoke from this dream.

In the past I would have music in dreams but I would forget it shortly after waking up, which is why I would have a recorder close by my bed.

It was beautiful how this music sounded in my dream.

I tried & tried & I just could not write words to this melody that would satisfy me.

Every song just didn't do the music justice.

About 6 years ago, I was sitting with my guitar & noodleing around.

I got an "urge" to try to write music to the Lord's prayer.

This is no small undertaking, it is very hard to put the Lord's prayer to music & it coming out sounding right.

I tried to, but couldn't come up with anything new, then I thought of this melody that I had before & how I didn't like the words & tried arranging to this music.

So I tried the melody to the Lord's prayer & it worked wonderfully!

It just worked out, I was so taken aback by that.

Now all I have to do is record it.

Bolt

Greetings!

Last Sunday in church

I believe in the concept of it, I believe that different wording would be more appropriate for different people (for example, some would prefer to pray "God" instead of "Our Father", and I am fine with that).

I think it is an important prayer for those of the Christian faith, specifically because it is from the Bible, but I also believe it is inclusive enough (other than the language) to be used by people of a multitude of faiths.

Yes, I believe I do, but like a lot of other aspects of my faith and understanding, my understanding and view of the Lord's Prayer is enlightened continually.

There are times when I spend more reflection and taking it to heart, and there are times when I recite it by rote, with not a lot of thought to the words.  Both times are part of my spiritual life and have meaning to me.  When I hear/read different versions, such as some posted above, when a person is preaching a sermon on the Lord's Prayer, when I am reading the scripture it comes from, and also sometimes in my prayer time, I am more reflective and take it to heart.  Sometimes, when I am worried, scared, unable to sleep, I pray it with more rotely, where I am saying the words, but not focusing on them . . . but just saying them brings comfort.

Hope, peace, joy, love . . .

Greetings!

Too bad I couldn't send you some of the rain and cool weather we are having (and have had most of the summer) here.  We haven't had to water our grass, gardens, etc. hardly at all this summer, especially throughout July.  It has also been cooler than normal . . . several days I've had to wear a warm sweater in the day time . . . in July! 

Sorry I can't share our precipitation and cool breezes with you . . . thinking of you in your conditions there.

The Lord's Prayer - I like the sung version also, Arminius.

Hope, peace, joy, love . . .

Greetings!

One of the parts that particularly touches me is the "forive us our trespasses as we forgive those who trespass against us" which reminds me that we ARE to forgive - not a choice or just based on our feelings.  I know forgiveness is complex and not always easy to do.  But this part of the prayer reminds me that I am to try.

Hope, peace, joy, love . . .

It is not a prayer that I "say" at all.  Some of the ideas contained within the prayer are values that I deem to be important in my life and those I do think about but not in the context of the formal prayer...cms

I mostly say it when I'm in my UCC church, but have been known to repeat it to myself at other times. I'd love to use it in a UU service, but I'm not sure how it would fly. I'm not sure precisely what you mean by "believe it", but I do see it as a wonderfully simple, plain-spoken expression of faith that I can accept (albeit metaphorically) even as a non-Christian. After all, Jesus taught it himself so that a lot of the later doctrinal complexities of atonement, trinitarianism, etc. are not present. I remember reading a short book, whose author I forget, in which it was suggested that the Lord's Prayer could be used as a creed , which is an intriguing idea to say the least that I would definitely explore further if I was to return to the UCC or another Christian church.

Mendalla

(Sigh) Yes, I meant 'within the Christian tradition'

I appreciate the corrections. Yes I do! 

.

With Great Respect,

How long since I repeated the Lord's prayer?  Out loud?  Last Sunday in church.  To myself?  probably yesterday as I considered this week's worship service.

Do I believe it?  I'm not sure of the question.  Do I believe that Jesus taught it word for word in English?  Of course not.  And most likely not something that was directly translated into the words of todays Bibles.  Neither of the two versious in the Bible which have differences.

But I like it.  I think that it is a historic document in the church.  But that it can still speak to us.  Daily bread, for example.  There is so much we can learn from that phrase.  Food was scarce for the peasant and landless classes in Jesus' time.  Malnourishment the norm; starvation a real possibility.  So bread for the day was vitally important - but Jesus prayed only for enough, not for an abundance.  Enough for the day - not for the week.

Forgive us our . . .?    I like 'debts' like the Presbyterians use.  Forgive us our debts.  Debt was another real threat in Jesus day.  People got in debt - borrowing money to pay their high taxes.  And if they didn't pay their debts they, and their families could be thrown into prison.  People would go hungry to pay their debts.  To have them forgiven (as in a Jubilee year) would be a God-send.  Forgiving others who may own them something went hand in hand with asking for forgiveness. 

Yes, I like the Lord's prayer.  Not too long ago at my former church we in the worship committee had long discussions about this prayer.  Some wanted a more modern version - one that used inclusive language rather than "our Father' - one that didn't place God up above in heaven but as a Spirit that surrounds us - perhaps one that was inclusive of native spirituality.  Others felt that these might be used occasionally but preferred to have the usual one most often.

I was in the second camp.  I like the idea of everybody saying it at once - usually from memory but I don't mind having the words printed in the bulletin for those new in the church.  I like the idea that various Christian churches use essentually the same prayer - across the country, across the Christian world.  Wherever I go and visit a church, I hope to join in the Lord's prayer. 

So yes, I like saying the prayer aloud in church weekly - and usually using the standard version (and I will whisper "debts" in my mind).

I say it often, out loud and in my mind as i work , sometimes its a reminder to me , sometimes its a cry out, but its always a confort.

but no body says the Lords Prayer better than this

Awww, that was sweet!

I do not say this prayer any more. It is said every Sunday in church but not by me.

may I ask why, Ruth and by the way welcome to the cafe.

I do not say this prayer because I do not believe in the concept of God being a father in a place called heaven. My God is gender neutral surrounding me where I am.

Ruth - do you like the versions as posted earlier by myself & LbMuskoka?  Does that change it for you?

I don't have a "Father in heaven" attitude either, but after learning about and hearing the poetry of the other versions, I appreciate the hope & yearning in the ideas of the prayer, and it helps me to comfortably use the old language.

Mendalla - Have you tried one of the other versions too?  That could be an interesting part of your UU service, exploring the prayer and opening it up to other people.

Hi, I do not pray in any version.

I see prayer as action and when in community, as a raising of consciousness to the cares, concerns and celebrations of those gathering together - NOT as petitions, etc. to a deity or force outside of life.  How would this concept work for you, Ruth?...cms

Ruth - the concept of God as Lord, or as Father in Heaven, is not one I hold either.  In fact I see God as Spirit, breathing life, surrounding and upligting us.  Nevertheless, I do enjoy saying the Lord's Prayer in church for historic reasons and the reasons I stated above.

I also like the idea of studying the Lord's Prayer, phrase by phrase, in an adult class - what did it mean in the past, what does it mean now, what other versious are used by other groups and available to us now.  Perhaps even using a different version one Sunday a month, or in an alternative service if your church offers one.  And I can see real possibilities for a whole series of sermons on the Lord's Prayer - starting with "Our Father".   Does 'Our parent' or 'Our Father/Mother God', or 'Creator' or 'Holy One of the Universe', or 'Ground of all being' meet our needs better?    'Who art in heaven'  perhaps combined with 'Our Father' or perhaps a whole new sermon exploring what this phrase means in today's world.

I have a friend with very progressive views.  I agree with her to a point.  We recommend books for each other to read and we have some great discussions.  She tells me she shutters every time she hears the Lord's Prayer, especially in its traditional form.  But as I said, I like it.  We were on the Worship Committee at the same church at the same time when this was being discussed.  It made for some interesting meetings.  Yes, we are still friends.

We actually have a UU version in our hymn book. It's basically the traditional version done up in inclusive language (i.e. father replaced by Creator or some such, I'd have to look it up at home). However, this is a church where an attempt to have a Bible study caused an uproar even though "Jewish and Christian teachings" are one of our six sources, so I tread lightly on these issues .  The problem is that some of our atheists/humanists, mostly early or charter members, specifically became Unitarian to escape the Christianity that they grew up (we're talking the 1930s and 1940s here when the faith was more all-pervasive) with and still associate anything Christian with that version of it. I'll probably slip it in some day, just like I'm going to use Genesis 1 in my service on Creation stories (right alongside a homily on the spiritual implications of the Big Bang/Evolution).

Mendalla

It's been many years since I repeated it as a Christian.

I believe in the spirit of parts of it. Obviously I don't believe in the exclusivity of it.

I think it is important to many Christians, and it has obvious historical interest.

Yes, of course. It's a very simple bit of prose. There are no really hard concepts in it, which is appropriate for the intended audience, the general populace.

I think I consider it a lot more now than when I was a Christian. I am freer now to examine it with a critical eye, rather than just saying because I felt I was supposed to.

Perhaps I could offer, by way of comparison, a similar context within our own Wiccan liturgy. The link below will take you to a Google Docs exerpt of a standard Wiccan ritual; to the part where we address God and Goddess directly, in what I see as a similar manner to the Lord's Prayer in your tradition.

http://docs.google.com/Doc?docid=0Ac57A_vx4PKPYWpoZ2dkbTU0NjQ2XzE4Z3Z6OH...

I believe the Lord's prayer is a good example of how the whole concept of prayer was one of which is very relational between "Father God" & mankind.

A personal thing between man & God. The term "Father" is more personal than the term "Creator"

At least this is how I see it.

Bolt

How long since you repeated it?

Do you believe it?

I am required to lead it in worship every week.

How important do you think it is?

As a piece of theology, marginally.  As a piece of tradition, extremely.

Do you understand it?
 

Yes, and I have preached a whole 7 week sermon series on it.  It does have some good stuff in it, underneath a lot of not great language, and a bunch of not great theology.  I like some of the other versions posted here, and available in various different places.  Unfortunately, the weight of tradition on this is pretty huge.  Trying to actually use those other versions in worship is a challenge.

Required?? As in you have no choice?? Wow. The prayers at my church are spontaneous. We are not required to pray anything. We can pray openly and freely as led by the Spirit of God.

Jae,

What is the purpose of prayer?

LL&P

Spock

I agree that "Creator" seems a bit too remote compared to "Father". On the other hand, the real struggle (in liberal church's at least) is to accomodate the fact that many now see God as having feminine elements, so that "Mother" is at least as important as "Father" and praying only to a "Father" just doesn't cut it. "Parent" would seem to be the logical compromise, but English just doesn't use that term as a form of address in this way so that "Our Parent, who are in Heaven..." ends up sounding artificial and no more personal than "Creator". You could, I suppose, alternate between "Mother" and "Father", or use something like "Our Mother, Our Father, Our Parent in heaven". In the end, prayer does need to be personal (Jesus certainly emphasized this in the sermon leading up to the Lord's Prayer) so we will probably each have to find the translation/paraphrase/version that speaks to us or to the congregation that we are leading.

On another note, I located the version in the UU hymnal and, lo and behold, it's a full on, traditional "Our Father", not inclusive as I thought. So, if I ever use the prayer in my UU church, I'll probably crib the one that Birthstone posted.

Mendalla

I sympathize with Matt on this one. Liturgy in many (but by no means all) UCC churches isn't particularly flexible or spontaneous, Jae. One of the reasons I don't plan to move back to the UCC permanently unless/until I find one that isn't quite as liturgically heavy than the one I'm going to now. My UU church has a set order or service but it's very simple and easy to modify during planning or on the fly without ruffling too many feathers.

Mendalla

RevMatt - could you clarify please.  Required?  By who, some ordinance from General Council, or Presbytery? The congregation? tradition? your own training in ministry in the UCC?

I've attended the UCC all may life.  I think there may have been one or two regular Sunday morning worship services when the Lord's Prayer was not used - but generally the prayer (or a version thereof) is either said or sung.  I like it , and I use it when I'm leading worship - but I didn't know it was required.

I like this version.

THE ARAMAIC PRAYER OF JESUS
as translated from Aramaic by Saadi Neil Douglas-Klotz of the Sufi Order of the West

O, Birther of the Cosmos, focus your light within us -- make it useful
Create your reign of unity now
Your one desire then acts with ours,
As in all light,
So in all forms,
Grant us what we need each day in bread and insight:
Loose the cords of mistakes binding us,
As we release the strands we hold of other's guilt.
Don't let surface things delude us,
But free us from what holds us back.
From you is born all ruling will,
The power and the life to do,
The song that beautifies all,
From age to age it renews.
I affirm this with my whole being.

But the term father is also very exclusive, Bolt.

It's the term Jesus used (in his own language of course). That's good enough for me.

Kay, very nice.

This is a little off topic but the following is my favourite, as someone else mentioned I'm not very comfortable with the whole prayer thing - I am really uncomfortable with the idea of asking for something but that's just me - but this, this speaks what I feel...

As I Walk with Beauty
 

As I walk, as I walk

The universe is walking with me

In beauty it walks before me

In beauty it walks behind me

In beauty it walks below me

In beauty it walks above me

Beauty is on every side

As I walk, I walk with Beauty.

Traditional Navajo Prayer

LB - oh, I think I feel a video developing
 

Very nice LB.  There is much that sings to me in what I've heard  of the language and belifs of our aboriginal people.  Not a Lord - but everything sounds meaningful to me.

I don't say the prayer under discussion. It is sometimes used during funerals but I remain silent.  Basically I don't believe there is an actual solid 'something' out there that judges, sends good and bad experiences, or that protects or gives and withholds healing and miracles.

I don't see this 'something' as male. I don't know how or why anyone would wait to forgive others before this 'something' bestowed forgiveness on us.

Beautiful prayer, LB! I had an aboriginal friend who signed her letters: "Walk with Beauty"

By tradition.

No, he said Daddy.  If you're going to use that argument, get it right.

Good point.  Forgive me.

Although, actually I believe he used both.

I last said it at last Sunday's service.

I learned this prayer before I could read courtesy of attending a Catholic school.  In seven years (K-6), there was no discussion at any level about what it meant.  There was no encouragement to examine what this prayer meant to us.  It was basically "learn this prayer and say it because that is what you are supposed to do".  Consequentially, this prayer doesn't hold much significance for me other than tradition and the comfort the ritual of saying it brings.  So while I do say it during service, it is mostly by rote.

That said, I really like the version/interpretation that Birthstone posted.  To stop and think about the prayer in the way it is expressed there gives me much more out of it than the traditional version ever has.