It was pouring rain, so the stadium was not as full as expected. George W. Bush looked awkward finding a seat, he wasn't well received by the crowd when he came in, and Desmond Tutu kindly nodded for he and Laura to sit in front of him. Good spot. Good man, Tutu.

I didn't watch the memorial, but truly I witnessed it. He spoke words that he lived and others will follow to emulate them. That is his legacy.

I really really hope so. It was heartwarming to see world leaders and faith leader sit together. Obama apparently shook hands with Raoul Castro (I missed it). I am impressed by the Canadian delegation that went over together after getting together on short notice. I am happy that it was a celebratory rather than a somber mood. I just wish it were fuller in the stadium and the sound was a little fuller. Maybe it was, to be there. Apparently, rain means life in south african culture- so the rain was welcomed and celebrated. I just read that a minute ago. I also missed Desmond Tutu's speech/ sermon. Disappointed I missed it. Did you see it?

I just said to my husband, I think we witnessed the passing of the greatest person to live in our lifetime (mine and his). In a way, his passing is a gift to us- to get us thinking and remembering his life again. It is so needed. Something to keep in mind this Christmas season. Today is also Human Rights Day.

There have been many. MLK, Ghandhi, and some that are less known. What's interesting is how and why we admire them. The theme they seem to have in common is that they have sacrificed themselves for others.

Not in my lifetime, though- born in the 70's.

I agree, otherwise, there have been many. Not enough, but many.

 

The Freepers are going to be delerious with excitement. I don't even need to visit their sites. If this happened, they're going to be mounting a new call to arms based on this one act of respect.

 

What are Freepers?

Freepers...like the tea baggers/ libertarians. Got it. Here's a clip of the handshake:

http://www.cbc.ca/m/touch/world/story/1.2457898

Okay, Mother Theresa, John Lennon, etc.....    :)

I've only watched Obama's speech and seen some pictures - usually of American presidents ;)  

I hope more is shared than just what the Americans are saying and doing.  I did hear a short clip from UK's Cameron - scripted, boring, predictable. 

 

Too bad the time difference is so big - it would have been good to watch a group.  This is a BIG deal.

 

Yes. I think Mandela, though, just because of his life story- 27 years in prison, is released,forgives his oppressors, ends Apparteid and gets elected by both black, and white people- even those who were his former enemies. It is really amazing. Even bigger than John Lennon or Mother Theresa- more amazing- though I admire them too.

John Lennon was an outspoken, anti-war, pop star. He got shot and died too soon. But his ability to reach people was more about celebrity than personal sacrifice. I still like him- but he's no Mandela.

Here's a wonderful tribute to Mandella in a Woolworths store in South Africa.

 

Beautiful voices. Too bad it had to be a Woolworths ad. I find it distasteful that they would capitalize on his death like that.

The trouble is that little has changed for underclass South Africans over the past 20 years. Sure, they can vote, and there is freedom of expression, but that's about it. There still is an appalling lack economic and social justice and equality.

 

Of the three ideals of the French Revolution, liberty, equality, fraternity, only the first has been realized. It probably will take a few more decades to fully realize the other two.

 

It is easy to fight a revolution, and blame everything wrong on the enemy, but once the revolution is won, there comes the far more difficult task of forging a better society, a society that works for everyone.

 

 

There is a growing population of people in poverty in nearly every Western country.

 

Yes, there is a growing population of very poor people all over the world. And there is small percentage of the very rich, whose incomes have increased exponentially over the past twenty years, and the income gap between the very rich and the very poor is immense and ever widening!

 

This is a disgrace to humanity! We, all of us, are disgracing ourselves and our species by tolerating this! It is high time for another revolution, this time against the moneyism.

Kimmio

When you have time google South Africa and read about the hellish murders and violence that is happening there on a daily basis. For some reason the media doesn't provide us with  a lot of coverage. It makes me so sick I don't even want to talk about it.

Well, nobody's perfect. I suppose we should look at another view of Mandela, not to discredit him but at least to remember some of the other reasons he was put in prison for all those years.

 

http://www.crisismagazine.com/2013/nelson-mandela-a-candid-assessment

"Not to discredit him, but let's post this crackpot religious website character assassination attempt."
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A lot of Christians hate him because he almost never referenced God, was pro-choice and pro-gay marriage.
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Did he advocate violence in his life? Yes. He also renounced violence and inspired one of the greatest reconciliations the world has ever seen. And for that, some Christians label him a terrorist and a communist.
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I knew this crap was going to make an appearance.

Yes, well- the author put down Tutu, someone else I admire. He's coming from a different world view. Not sure about this article- but I know before his prison time, Mandela was not a saint. That's true. And neither was his first wife, Winnie. But he did great things afterwards.

 

I'd actually forgotten what he was in prison for AND I like to hear other opinions. That's all.

I had read before that the situation between blacks and whites has been deteriorating again in some places there, recently. Which is sad. Mandela's huge achievement was ending Apartheid. Then he won the election. There was never a guarantee that he and his successors would make perfect policy decisions as presidents. Be they black or white. That has nothing to do with race. But- it doesn't surprise me, sadly, that if there are problems, that the whites will once again blame the blacks, and vice versa. It's only been a couple of decades. Hopefully, they can carry on the reconcilliation that is Mandela's legacy.

Another interesting angle:

 

http://www.okwonga.com/?p=869

Sure, but you linked to a right-wing Catholic nutbar site. I wrote somewhere else on WC that these people existed.
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Mandela wasn't perfect, but the governments he lived under were far worse, and he emerged from 27 years of hell without the bitterness that would have consumed most men.
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A lot of Christians aren't going to like him because he didn't reference God enough, there are unsubstantiated rumours he was an atheist later in life, and he supported things many Christians opposed. So, you get right-wing hatchet jobs like the one you found. Some Christian sites make up lies about him, too.
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If you're looking for alternate perspectives, google the publications you find to see how reputable they are.

Wow. Powerful. I think he's right. People with no experience of the shoes he walked in, have and will try to reshape Mandela's history. Including us. Including the writer.

"Mandela reminded us that it always seems impossible until it is done" Best quote from Obama's eulogy 

Good one.

Yes, Mandela was not overtly Christian. His oppressors were.

 

-Thank you waterfall . I new of these things an others. But did not really want to talk bad about someone who has past on. But this is getting a bit stupit. Most here have lived through the end life of Mandella. If you didn't see what he done, then your blind.What a crazy world we live in.

--Hi Chansen  you really believe this guy to be some sort of nut bar?

 

 

 

 

Titles and degrees don't make much of an impression on me. Actions do.

- Hi Chansen thats ok with me. I am a believer in . Talk the walk and walk the talk.Is this what you see Mr Mandela had done in his life?

Here's some of what's happening in today's South Africa re the whites and white farmers.  I don't know about religion..?....I didn't look into it.

 

Old Video - Ronald Reagan speaking

 

Another riff by writer Steven Brust (his book "To Reign In Hell" totally cracked me up with the sheer wit...reminded me of Mark Twain...) 

Note:

I posted a video and article  on the  "Politics" board   today.

 

Its Romeo Dallaire speaking about the present  crisis in the Central African Republic and calling for help once again. I saw him on TV also.

The whole point of reconcilliation was forgiveness, on both sides. It needed to happen, for apartheid to end and the people to move forward.

de Klerk, the white South African president and former supporter of apartheid who had Mandela held in prison, then called for his release, won the Nobel Peace Prize with Mandela. If he hadn't forgiven, Mandela would not have been released, nor would apartheid have ended. To those still seething about Mandela- try forgiveness.

another memorial

 

being able to look at it all, the horror & humanity, the sacred & the profane...

 

The people seething about Mandela are mostly Christians. Go on some of their websites and try some of that Jesus talk on them. Come back with a report on how forgiving these Christians are.

 

 

 

i concur -- all Christians should try this

 

to those still seething aboot Bush Sr & Jr, try forgiveness

 

to those still seething aboot Abu Ghraib, try forgiveness

 

to those still seething aboot September 11, try forgiveness

 

to those still seething aboot Iraq, try forgiveness

 

to those still seething aboot the Ecole Polytechnique shootings, try forgiveness

 

repeat & repeat

 

(...some horrors are accepted by some, not by others...why?...part of the dance...)

Kimmio

I shouldn't have googled about SA. After seeing and reading all  this stuff I'm too horrified to be in a normal frame of mind.

 

Forgive the world....?....forgive the mess....?....forgive Mandela and Winnie....sure...no problem ...but the beat goes on....the mess continues.

 

You'll have to get on your horse and tell the people of Africa to forgive each other? I've a funny feeling it hasn't yet happened despite Mandela....am I wrong? Did the people listen UP..?

Oh, I believe you.

 

We must not forget that much of the mess in Africa have the same roots as the mess in many first nations communitites here in Canada.  Europeans who waged war, and genocide against the people of Afiorca and Canada for hundreds oif years.

 

 

I don't mean to give the wrong impression re my rants. I do admire Mandela's character  coming out after spending those long years in prison ( Winnie says he went soft...lol)  and I'm sure his accomplishments re apartheid border on genius and will never happen again.

 

Nevertheless I'm hearing  on TV about this humble little old man ..who was 6 foot three......he must have shrunk a lot?  I didn't really know a lot about him so I was surprised to learn he didn't live in a shack or a ghetto...my bad. He did donate to some charities but he wasn't exactly poor as he seems to be portrayed sometimes in the media. He was a really good guy ( despite some violence)  so I'm happy he enjoyed some years living in luxury. He earned it. His wealth was accumulated from a book or books he wrote as was Obama's at a last count I read of 7 million re Obama's net worth.

 

@ Alex - Agreed. I was just reading some of the SA  history and how similiar the situation there  is to our Natives living in Canada.

 

I had a question I was afraid to ask but I've found some info. about it on the net. I stayed up until about 5:30 a.m. watching the people coming to  Mandela's memorial service. I was surprised to see there were very few whites, I mean the ordinary common white folk.

 

So God bless and be with Mandela but its too bad there weren't more white people who felt the need to attend. I wonder why not?  I saw a small  memorial church service where there were some whites.

 

I'm a big supporter of Unicef so that's why I'm so interested and intrigued by SA. I can't afford a lot now but I did donate to buy  some mosquito nets and special nutrition food packets. I would also love to support the water projects in SA.  "Wine into Water" is a good one. Perhaps I lived there in my last life......:)...?

 

Sorry my puter is a bit cuckoo re the print.

 

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