airclean

I can give you a list of dozens of scholars and historians if that would help you.

I cannot deliver the lectures I get at the Vancouver School of Thology and the scholars I speak of above have also been teachers under whom I have studied.

We can start with two excellent books by J. D. Drossan: "The Historical Jesuss" and "The Birth of Christianity".

Thanks to GordW.

Shalom

Mate

waterfall,

I guess what "Eloi, Eloi, lama sabachthani?" means depends on whether you follow the Aramaic primacy school (the Biblical scholars who think that the Bible was 'originally' in Aramaic) or the Greek primacy school (the Biblical scholars who think that the Bible was 'originally' in Greek).

Since the Greek primacy school seems to be where your phrase in question comes from, I'll just show what I see as an example of the Aramaic primacy school at work on your phrase in question:

http://www.alamoministries.com/content/english/Gospel_literature/Jesus_N...

You'll notice that here, the phrase in question has quite a different meaning.

(Myself, I tend to like languages that pun :3)

Just a Self-writing poem,

Inannawhimsey

InannaWhimsey, thankyou, I've never heard this before. I'm going to contemplate and check this out later in the day and I'll get back to those others that have also contributed. I'll probably have more questions about the wording you've contributed. If anyone else is familiar with this interpretation I'd be interested to hear more about the validity of it.

Waterfall

I think Jesus believed himself to be at-one with God, and thus beyond suffering.

This worked, for the most part. But when his suffering became unendurable, his godliness abandoned him and his humanness took over. He may have been surpised that his godliness had forsaken him in his hour of greatest need, and this was why he cried out the famous first line from Psalm 22.

In Luther's German translation of the Bible, this Psalm has the following foreword:

"A Psalm David's, singing of the hind who is hunted in the early morning."

You're welcome :3

I wanted to proffer it because I really would like to see some of the Real Biblical Scholars here sally forth on this notion :3

Just a Self-writing poem,

InannaWhimsey

have you seen who wrote that peice? tony alamo

I think you are inserting your own belief into the text, and that belief does not fully fit there.  Its like trying to jam a jigsaw puzzle piece into the wrong place.  

Your belief leads to assumptions which leads to expectations, formulated entirely by you, for you.  When something is not met the way you expect, its distressing.  

Only you can control your reaction, whether it will produce harmony or distress for you.

As has been said above, its very clear that the NT writers were intimately familiar with OT texts, and they also liberally copied from each other.  I think there was  a great desire to mould Jesus, after death, into a greater than life figure.  I think referencing and inserting OT text was a very convenient and effective way to do that. 

But is there really an Aramaic primacy school?   I have never heard of such a thong.  I have heard some suggestions that Matthew may have begun in Aramaic but cetainly not Luke and John.  What is the consensus of scholars?  THat is what counts in the end.

However I agree that Jesus may well not have said these words in HEbrew or Aramaic.  But that is because I think they are a literary device.  Nobody was standing at the cross taking notes

I dont know if there is , i was just making a comment on Tony Alamo