Noetic knowledge, according to Husserl, is a complement between Noema and Noesis, objective and subjective knowledge.

 

Objective knowledge is what we experience, subjective knowledge is the conceptualization of experience.

 

If we already are biased in favour of scripture before we sit down to read it, then our contemplation of scripture will, of course, be influenced by our pre-conceived bias.

 

 

 

 

What are noetics ... no et'ics at all just going with the flow in reality ... opposing morals? NOSH-ite! Thats odd ...

 

Nothing upstanding ... just get the we soldiers to stand down and thus they did ... as buried talents!

Noetic knowledge is knowledge of the highest kind, of the ultimate form.

 

In Buddhism, the ultimate form would be the form of no form:

 

                        The Dark Void

where'd you get this from blackbelt, a stalinist website?

In Buddhism, the ultimate form would be the form of no form:

 

                        The Dark Void

 

But what Christian that avoids the tree of knowledge would be enlightened to this as the opening to the OT?

Hoo's St Alin ... any relation to St eL Mos ... the whetted flame ...?

Omega'd like Jared upturned ... what we don't know is exceptional ... as non missionary positions ... stand up there boy or the Communists'll ave yah ...

 

The there are those that declare they still know everything ...

 

I had a BUZZ with ID one time ... shock'n ... causes one not to think! Don't worry it comes bad to yah in time ... as long as you're not emotionally impatient and just wish to push all the buttons at once ...

 

Where does sin originate in man -----The Body only moves to our thoughts ----everything we do starts with a thought ----The heart of a man is the center of a man and denotes both physical and emotional--intellectual - -moral activity ----

 

The Bible says sin originates in the heart of a person ----scripture says it is not what we put into our mouths that is the problem --it is what comes out of the mouth that creates sin --the heart of a man is evil ----and can not change without God ----so God's words cannot penatrate a evil heart ----what you speak is what you think ---the scriptures say it best --

 

 

The Person who is without The Holy Spirit cannot understand what God says in His word ---it requires Spiritual Discernment ----

 

 

Sin distorts our very being in my opinion and I personally feel it affects our reasoning and knowing the things that pertain to God and His word ----these are just my thoughts on this

 

Peace

No not thoughts ... these are corrupted emotions that aren't generally distributed by tribulation ... those that gather knowledge unto their own sects ...

 

The female genre does this sacredly as psyche ... and the religiously emotional find it snot funny ... when they can't have ID all their way ...

 

The stoic have great confusion over the definition of thought, feeling, sensations and emotions ... generally blowing emotions all out of proportions ... as a bully on a rant ...

 

Such thing sometimes scare the illiterate ... whereas the litary group prick up their ears as gravid and rabid ... sometimes a gross rabbits in oestrous ... they'll think a gravid thought at anytime and you never know ... if you're filled with fear and anger over lost parts ... ID shows dramatically

Hi blackbelt1961,

 

 

It isn't a matter of being accustomed to a certain sin so much as it is a matter of the mind being corrupted by the presence of sin.  Because of that corruption it becomes a given that our minds alone are insufficient to properly understand all that is at stake in any given matter.

 

Theologically speaking we are never biased towards scripture so much as we are biased against scipture.

 

The presence of noetic effects of sin are the reason why many theologians reject the doctrine of free-will save for human existence prior to the Fall.  After the Fall the mind/will is as corrupted by sin as anything else in creation.

 

This is what leads those same theologians to put God's grace to humanity as the starting point in the process of redemption/salvation.  Grace is a pre-requisite to the mind/will being able to exercise freedom.  Free-will and Free-choice are not pre-requisites for grace.

 

Grace and peace to you.

John

Is accustomed to such things like a numbing ... fits with ignorance if you ask me about people opening their minds about things that they had become accustomed to without cognizance of the far reaching effects ... like greenhouse effects and mother-nature being connected.

 

GW Bush didn't believe this ...but then he was not aware ... perhaps a bit naïve due to position? Perspective is 90% ...

 

Some can't get beyond where they're at ... no movement at all like constipated ... just BS everywhere ... rigid 1/3rds ... no coming forth to think it over ...

 

 

i could see that, but in our corrupted mind/will state, we still have somewhat the ability to accept Christ?

 

Now im sounding like a Calavinist 

 

 

so with this pre-requisite grace, why is it, even though as believers we understand it , we still have a hard time accepting it in our hearts , espically in moments of fauliers 

Hi blackbelt1961,

 

 

Not alone we don't, no.

 

Unless the Holy Spirit graciously intervenes on our behalf we can do nothing.

 

 

Grace is to sin what water is to rock.

 

The rate of erosion depends upon the volume of grace applied.

 

Grace is hard to accept primarily because to accept it one needs to admit one needs it.  Grace comes to us out of God's strength, our need of it demonstrates just how weak and helpless we are.

 

Pride goes before a fall and often the same pride forbids us from accepting the hand up.

 

Grace and peace to you.

John

 

Hi revjohn    your quote   The rate of erosion depends upon the volume of grace applied

 

You make it sound like there are different volumes of Grace ---- can you explain what you mean by different volume of Grace that is applied ---and what is it applied to ?-----

 

Grace and Peace to you revjohn

Hi unsafe,

 

 

Yes I do.  Which is by design.

 

 

The amount of forgiveness given.  See Luke 7:  41-43.

 

 

Sin

 

Grace and peace to you.

John

Hi revjohn 

 

Thanks for your reply ----I will read the passage

 

Grace and Peace to you

 

Hi revjohn

 

When I read the whole passage --I really don't see where your comment about volumes of Grace applies as the passage is really about Faith and Jesus forgiving this woman of her sins because of her faith ----the debt being forgiving was a parable Jesus told to show the Pharisee that he also needs to forgive -----as instead of rejoicing in the tokens of the women's repentance he confined his thoughts to her former character ----Grace comes through Faith in the new Testament ---God Himself showed Grace to different people in the Old Testament even as they complained and had no Faith -----Cain the first murder for example ----and Jesus showed Grace to the woman who was caught in adultery ----

 

I personally don't believe in different volumes of Grace ----To me Grace is Grace ---when God bestows His Grace upon a person --that Grace is sufficient for all our spiritual needs ----

 

This scripture says it best for me -----this Divine Power is Grace ----

 

 

This of course is just my view ---Grace and Peace to you   

 

Hi unsafe,

 

 

I'm not surprised by that.

 

 

I'm not surprised by your coming to this conclusion either.

 

 

You are right.  It is a parable.

 

You have completely missed the point of the parable.

 

The parable is not told to teach Simon that he (Simon) needs to forgive.  The parable outlines that Simon has not been forgiven much.

 

Why not?  The parable doesn't explore that element.

 

In the parable two individuals owe debts.  One individual owes a debt that is greater than the others.  Both have their debts forgiven (act of grace dependent on what visible fait of the debtors?).  Both have been forgiven, who will love more?

 

Simon answers, "The one with the greater debt will love more."

 

The size/volume of the debt forgiven costs the one to whom the debt is owed more to forgive.

 

The act of forgiving the debt is a gift given too both men though none has done anything to merit such a forgiving.  In fact, in the parable the only thing the two men do is fall into debt.

 

Jesus comes to dinner at Simon's invitation and the woman crashes the party to express her love.

 

For what?

 

What has Jesus done for her?  When do we see them interacting prior to this event?  When has she repented?  What has she repented?

 

Not relevant to the story.

 

Simon is disgusted that Jesus would have anything to do with this woman.

 

He doesn't wonder what this woman wants with Jesus.  He dismisses her as being of a certain kind.

 

It is true that Jesus mentions nothing about forgiving her until after her display.  That doesn't mean that she has not experienced forgiveness prior to her display.  You see her activity as a means to aquire grace.  That indicates that you do not understand what grace is or how it operates.  You confuse grace with wage.

 

Becaue the woman has done this Jesus owes her this.

 

Jesus owes her nothing.

 

Grace touched her heart before she entered the room.  We aren't told how.  Nor does it matter.

 

What we do know is that she has been forgiven much and as a result she loves Jesus more.  Much more than does Simon.

 

The parable makes that incredibly clear.

 

When Jesus says, "I forgive your sins, your faith has saved you go in peace" he is not saying, because you have done this for me I will now forgive you.  He is putting into words, making visible/obvious what the Spirit of God has already done in secret.

 

 

This again shows that you truly have no idea about what grace is or what grace means.  You are attempting to make it a work that is recompensed.

 

 

He did.  What was her act of faith in Jesus that made this grace possible?

 

Grace and peace to you.

John

Grace can't be earned, or else it wouldn't be God's unmerited favor.

 

We can ask ourselves, when does grace begin.

 

There are those who I have heard say that saving grace is only given to some, and that only God knows who these "some" will be. I have noticed, though, that those who support this view seem to have no difficulty including themselves in the mix.

 

There are others who I have heard say that saving grace is available to one and all. This makes more sense to me. Since God takes no pleasure in the death of the wicked, why would he not make it so that one and all could repent and be free.

Hi Dcn. Jae,

 

 

Amen.

 

 

We could.  I don't know that such an answer is easily obtainable.  I also think we should ask ourselves where does grace begin?

 

 

Which means what exactly?

 

When they have no difficulty including themselves in the mix are they suggesting that they have fulfilled some criteria and somehow earned their spot or might something else be in play?

 

 

Which falls into a works righteousness position because if the grace is available to one and all and ultimately does not come to one and all what is the mechanism that grace has come to some but not to all?

 

If it is a matter of choice then the effect of grace is not in the decision of God to give it but rather the decision of others to embrace it.

 

Which eliminates the idea of unmeritted favour and instead postulates reward for right action.

 

And it is interesting that those who advocate this particular means also have no difficulty seeing themselves as having done what was necessary to purchase this grace for themselves making their action the standard by which all others should be judged.

 

Grace and peace to you.

John

Is it by G_Ds Grace of the given mind as A'Donis ... that we have the subtle sense of thinking underlying dangerous emotions?

 

Thus is th sense of arising or Eris'n cognizance, or apocalypse  ... in which some hard sheuls don't get the encased Lambda ... as an inverted "y" they can't see in the reflection ... as knowledge and thought were shunned by followers of emotions alone ...

 

You are not alone ... you just don't often know IT as it is satyr-like, entomed or introverted form ... biblically forless and black chit in an inque well! rare cases of thought are generally unacceptable in institutions ...

 

UNB is having trouble with their mission as mola is being diverted to unknow uses ...

 

Does this sound defiantly senatorial? Such lo'l ife, or is that ephe ... that flows of de ancient tongue ... phonetically strange?

 

Hi revjohn   your quote  

This again shows that you truly have no idea about what grace is or what grace means.  You are attempting to make it a work that is recompensed.

 

No revjohn ----Faith is a requirement to receive Jesus and then by  grace are you saved --

 

Grace comes through faith -----

 

 

 

 

 

 

"This again shows that you truly have no idea about what grace is or what grace means.  You are attempting to make it a work that is recompensed."

 

Agin this carries a strong hint of judgemental activity from people who deny the existance of mental actions or soul in it least or humble form ... the oppressive acton of the emotions trying to belay thoughts continues ...

 

Is ther no sense of moderation or media? to the emotional this in anon-sense close to autonomous ... and the emotional doesn't understand ...

 

what Rev John is trying to say is that even in Faith, if God does not give you the ability to have faith for His Son, you wont, so Grace and Faith is a gift of God, not a work that we are able to do. 

which makes sense, because if Grace and Faith do exist it must  flow from the Origionator who is  God 

Hi unsafe,

 

 

In other words if you do not receive Jesus then you will not get grace.

 

That is the very definition of doing something to get something.  That suggests that grace is merited.  The definition of grace is unmerited  favour

 

That is not how grace works.

 

That is how work is paid.

 

Grace and peace to you.

John

Hi blackbelt1961,

 

 

Thank you.

 

Grace and peace to you.

John

 

Hi blackbelt

 

This is where we differ ---Faith is not a gift from God in my opinion ---Faith comes by action ----Faith comes by us hearing the word of God -----If Faith were a Gift then we would not have to listen to God's word to acquire it----Grace is a gift but to get the Grace you first have to Faith by you reading or hearing God's word ----

 

We have a choice to have Faith or reject it in my opinion -----revjohn has a different thinking as in his belief he was already chosen by God  to be saved so he would feel his Faith and Grace are already in place without doing anything ----this is where we differ ---we just think different is all ---There is one thing for sure we will all know the right way when we pass from this world to the next ..

 

Peace

Is that everything? In the beginning dark and void ... then a revelation ... about alegories and things unseen by those that can't see in depth ...

 

Leads to a fisherman ... digging for clams to crack ... in one Legend her name was Molly McGuire ... she was darkly wired but couldn't be sunk by weird storms of emotions .... much like a hoers in the desert ... Hildago? The story goes on of course ... as myth is infinite ... no mortal power has figured how to fence in that which he can't see ... the Celts scared eM out of the dark with the weals of bagpipes and painting their boddies blue ... the English thought it was  Gael of frogues ... that'd be a plague ... no!

 

correct, hearing the word of God would give Gods Spirit power to the Faith that is alread in you, given to you by God, to believe in his Son.

 

another examply would be your spirit, it gives you life, its a gift of God, but if God does not regenerate your God given spirit, it remains dead to God

 

Hi blackbelt   your quote    hearing the word of God would give Gods Spirit power to the Faith that is alread in you,

 

Don't quite get this statement blackbelt ---sorry ----the word of God gives us God kind of Faith where we believe in the unseen and don't rely on our 5 senses ----this is what I personally believe ----this Faith is needed for us to accept Jesus as our Lord and Savior --as soon as we ask Jesus to come  into our heart we are then Save by Grace --it is Grace then that gives us the power ------Faith to me doesn't need God's power ---Faith needs action to grow ----it is up to us to do God's word and see the results ---

 

This is just my belief -----maybe I am misunderstanding what you are meaning -----  

 

Peace

 

when you read Gods word, does it inspire you ?

Here is another idea I would like to put out there. How about a point system for salvation instead? Say for evey good deed you do you get one point and for every evil deed you do you get one point deducted. At the end of your life God adds up your points and if you have more good points than bad points you are saved. See no Jesus or faith needed in The Holy Point System. Actually this system makes just about as much sense as any other idea of salvation being put forth on WC IMHO. I don't know why so many Christians have a problem with works righteousness. Imho I think Christianity would be a better religion if it put a lot more emphasis on works righteousness than it did on faith.

 

It's been done. They're called Muslims.

 

I wonder if this would work for Lotto 649 

 

Have you been predestined to play Lotto 649, or are you playing it out of your own free will?

Romans 3:27-4 "Then what becomes of our boasting? It is excluded. By what kind of law? By a law of works? No, but by the law of faith.  For we hold that one is justified by faith apart from works of the law.  Or is God the God of Jews only? Is he not the God of Gentiles also? Yes, of Gentiles also,  since God is one—who will justify the circumcised by faith and the uncircumcised through faith.  Do we then overthrow the law by this faith? By no means! On the contrary, we uphold the law.

What then shall we say was gained by  Abraham, our forefather according to the flesh? For if Abraham was justified by works, he has something to boast about, but not before God. For what does the Scripture say? “Abraham believed God, and it was counted to him as righteousness.” Now to the one who works, his wages are not counted as a gift but as his due.  And to the one who does not work but believes in him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is counted as righteousness,"

--esv

 

James 2:14-24 "What good is it, my brothers, if someone says he has faith but does not have works? Can that faith save him?  If a brother or sister is poorly clothed and lacking in daily food, and one of you says to them, “Go in peace, be warmed and filled,” without giving them the things needed for the body, what good  is that?  So also faith by itself, if it does not have works, is dead.

But someone will say, “You have faith and I have works.” Show me your faith apart from your works, and I will show you my faith by my works.  You believe that God is one; you do well. Even the demons believe—and shudder!  Do you want to be shown, you foolish person, that faith apart from works is useless?  Was not Abraham our father justified by works when he offered up his son Isaac on the altar?  You see that faith was active along with his works, and faith was completed by his works;  and the Scripture was fulfilled that says, “Abraham believed God, and it was counted to him as righteousness”—and he was called a friend of God. You see that a person is justified by works and not by faith alone."

 

--esv

 

i'd think that being saved is a very important part of Christianity.  so i look at these two bits and see either there is a contradiction or the someone is trying to contradict someone else...where is the Truth here?

 

(personally, i love contradictions and paradoxes...they aren't necessarily problems in and of themselves...but, putting myself into the high heels of a Christian...)

 

and so it goes...

 

 

 

 

And before that, perhaps Catholics.

You seem to no very little about Islam and its followers. They believe God is one who is called Allah and they worship Allah (God). Where in my post did I say you need to follow Allah and worship Allah? Here is a little info on Islam maybe you might actually read it .http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=muslim%20beliefs&source=web&cd=2&cad=rja&uact=8&sqi=2&ved=0CDEQFjAB&url=http%3A%2F%2Fen.wikipedia.org%2Fwiki%2FIslam&ei=oXk8U4Fdo-bJAZOngJAB&usg=AFQjCNEvevazo6Y86CHNih7k0uzDg5ZicQ

 

Hi blackbelt

 

Yes --it does do that ---but It should do more than inspire me if I put my Faith into action ---and I personally can say it works ----

 

For example ----how to get answered prayer-------it is telling you that whatever --you ask --believe --God Kind of Faith- this kind of faith produces ----that you  already have  received it   and IT WILL BE YOURS ---NOT IT MIGHT BE OR COULD BE BUT WILL BE ----now the requirement is to forgive anyone who has wronged you -----Do what the scripture says ---have the faith that it will happen and watch your faith soar ----

 

Peace

Blackbelt your dog is sooo cute!

 

so where did you get the faith in the first place in order for Gods word to work in it?

 

Thank you , 

 

her name is Roxy 

 

hI blackbelt    your quote   so where did you get the faith in the first place in order for Gods word to work in it?

 

From God's word ----Faith is delivered to us through God's word --Logos ----

 

Original Word: λόγος, ου, ὁ
Part of Speech: Noun, Masculine
Transliteration: logos
Phonetic Spelling: (log'-os)
Short Definition: a word, speech, divine utterance, analogy
Definition: a word, speech, divine utterance, analogy.

 

 

Then when you aquire Faith --you need to act on it -----The word then speaks to you as God's word is alive and active Hebrews 4:12 --

 

Rhema word-----

 

Original Word: ῥῆμα, ατος, τό
Part of Speech: Noun, Neuter
Transliteration: rhéma
Phonetic Spelling: (hray'-mah)
Short Definition: a thing spoken
Definition: a thing spoken, (a) a word or saying of any kind, as command, report, promise, (b) a thing, matter, business.

4487 rhḗma (from 4483 /rhéō, "to speak") – aspoken word, made "by the living voice" (J. Thayer). 4487 /rhḗma ("spoken-word") is commonly used in the NT (and in LXX) for the Lord speaking His dynamic, living word in a believer to inbirth faith ("His inwroughtpersuasion").

 

Peace

 

you mean before you became a believer you had no faith in you for anything in life ?

 

did you have faith that your car would get you to work? or did you have faith in your husband or kids or a friend

Not really. I was baptized in the RCC and I attended mass there until I turned 20. I don't remember anything about a point system but then again I was asleep most of the time when the Priest was speaking. You might have a point though about them putting more emphasis on doing good works compared to the more Evangelical Protestant denominations Yet they still believe you are saved by what Jesus did for you on the cross..

Like with God's Une and that lass called Mariah ... if you've ever been hit by a real emotional mental storm ... things will change even faith and imagination ... as a red eye'd (I'D) psyche ... if you don't believe in the myth of soul ... how'd yah know you've been blown off ... like that line in the san ...

 

Thus the hat gets smaller as the internal head shrink goes to work. Some just can't dig this ... to much of a wipeout of what the believed ... sort of like that pop song in the 60's or Casa Blanca ...

 

Internal shrink? Some refuse to dig there ... too mind bending ... and knowledge grows right out of this emotional dimension. Some call this abstraction or even nerve Annah ... a sin aptic event ...

 

With autonomous subtleties ... some say less that emotional and thus negative thinking ... in a BS that accepts only emotional directives ... not rational what-so-ever ...

 

You wouldn't believe it without down to mireth experience ... it gets odder with time ... more irregular? Like constant patience is required ornothing moving ... NOSH-ite it is a snooty place to reside constantly ... why the Shabbat Deis called Sunday Morn coming down ... in the ET-nich Middle east they have this wee'd sensation and swear of whine ... the more intelligent ones are happy in the wilderness ... sort of an Erið space as compared to mental baptism and kohl're climes in the mountain ...

 

Shift a few let Eires and you never know what'll come out of the myth ... and you become sensitive to human err ... perhaps you are deveoping an imaginary dimension ... that outside the absolute psyche? Good place to start a crank or crackpot to conceiving ...

 

Hi blackbelt

 

I had Human Faith ----we are away from God and belong to Satan until we accept Christ so human Faith is in place -----

 

Not the same kind of Faith -----Human Faith relies on our 5 senses ----not the unseen ----God kind of Faith relies on the unseen not our 5 senses ----your 5 senses are of no value to God's Faith -----we believe what we see or feel in this physical world -----

For example ----you use the car ---I can have human faith that when I turn the key of my car it will start but I can't be sure of that as there could be a malfunction somewhere and therefore the car is of no use till I get it fixed -----so doubt is present until I actually turn the key and the car starts -----All hope is in the KEY THAT WILL START THE ENGINE --GOD IS NOT FOUND IN THIS EXAMPLE ----

 

God's Faith is doubtless -----When Peter walks on the water he then sinks --why because he lost his focus and doubt and fear took over ----great example of human faith verses God's Faith --Peter still had his faith which depends on what you see or feel ----

 

Jesus is speaking ---

 

    

 

So we see in this scripture that our Faith is in God not a item or thing ----like the key that starts your car -----

 

 

These are my thoughts on this ---

Did you have faith to turn the key? This is well-rounded ... sort of an evolution ... but imposed fear separates you from Q'ueues ...

 

thank you, and who gave you that human faith when you were created  ?  another human, or   God ?

 

Hi blackbelt

 

Satan's Faith is Fear and doubt so the Faith we have is contaminated it is not righteous Faith ----which does not come from God -----so my answer is  Faith before we accept Christ does not come from God -----God's Faith comes from His Divine word not this world -----We have a human spirit and human faith which are contaminated and must be renewed ----

 

Fear belongs to Satan ----

 

 

There are 2 Spirits one conflicts the other ----2 Faiths one conflicts the other ---in my opinion ----You can't have fear in righteous faith ---but you can have fear in contaminated Faith

 

Peace---this is just my belief

 

 

 

Footnotes:

1. James 2:19 Another reason taken of an absurdity: If such a faith were the true faith whereby we are justified, the devils should be justified: for they have that, but yet notwithstanding they tremble, and are not justified therefore, neither is that faith a true faith.