revjohn
The Observer's Beyond Belief Interview Question by Question--Question Thirteen
Posted on: 11/15/2013 10:42
Hi All,
Here it is the penultimate question of the interview. Tables and chairs should go to the upright position we will be landing shortly.
Observer: Is the question of doubt and doctrine going to be a major conversation generally in The United Church of Canada?
denBok: What’s happening, I think, is that like-minded people are forming informal clusters within the church. And so in a sense, the people with whom I have theological discussions and debates, the people I would hang out with voluntarily on a Saturday morning, are people who are coming to a similar place to where I am. Or at least to a broad enough place, in a theistic kind of way, that we can pray together and discuss things from the same world view.
I’m still having fun in ministry. I know a lot of my colleagues are. I have a huge hope for the future, but my hope is based on the premise that I’m living the story in which love wins in the end. I can have courage to go forward, knowing that I may not succeed today, but eventually the world wins; God wins. It’s a good ending.
Thoughts?
Grace and peace to you.
John
Comments
John Wilson
Posted on: 11/16/2013 06:34
As a non church goer, and Spong-follower I have nothing to contribute...
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We have been invaded! Every word that is Green connects to an outside party
when your key floats over it...I hope somone is looking into that---
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Are YOU 'having fun in Ministry'?
Has it changed little, some, drastically--- in the last 15 years or so?
(BTW, thank you for the TULIP posts...cleared up a lot for me...)
seeler
Posted on: 11/16/2013 08:47
Is the question of doubt and doctrine going to be a major conversation generally in The United Church of Canada?
Is this something new? Hasn't there always been discussion about beliefs and doubts? Isn't that why the New Curriculum was developed in the 1960s? And why we have a New Creed? And a newer Song of Faith? I've been in the UCC for 70 years and it seems to me that we have always discussed our doubts and our beliefs. And we have always tried to find a balance between our doctrine (what we believe) and how we live our lives. I agree with Vosper about one of her major statements: what we do is more important than what we believe. That is, I somewhat agree. I really can't see how to separate the two. What we believe gives heart and meaning to what we do. Will the UCC be discussing doubt and doctrine? Yes. It has in the past. It will continue to do so. And I hope that we all continue to have fun doing so.
seeler
Posted on: 11/16/2013 08:34
duplicate
SG
Posted on: 11/16/2013 09:16
I think that "internal clusters" can be good. They also can be bad as Rev deBok herself said previous that in the UCC we cannot name the mission. As folks lament a congregational disconnect with Presbytery and national, I am not so sure it is as rosy as Rev deBok makes it sound. IMO If we continue this path, we may be more congregationalist than was hoped for.
revjohn
Posted on: 11/16/2013 12:20
Hi All,
Observer: Is the question of doubt and doctrine going to be a major conversation generally in The United Church of Canada?
When is it ever not?
What's happening, I think, is that like-minded people are forming informal clusters within the Church. And so in a sense, the people with whom I have theological discussions and debates, the people I would hang out with voluntarily on a Saturday morning, are people who are coming to a similar place to where I am.
Which is presumably something that everyone belonging to an informal cluster could say. It isn't that there is only one kind of cluster. There are many and each is populated by those sympathetic to the issue that particular cluster revolves around Is this a new phenomenon or is it one that the Church has always had going on within its midst?
Or at least to a broad enough place, in a theistic kind of way, that we can pray together and discuss things from the same world view.
I read this as common frame of reference where there is still room for disagreement.
I'm still having fun in ministry. I know a lot of my colleagues are.
I'm still having 'fun' in ministry to. Sadly part of the 'fun' is being part of some dark and heavy stuff.
Othere times the 'fun' comes in wrestling with things that are part of the Church experience. The doubts we have about this that and the other thing. Whether we will add to doctrine, subtract from doctrine, persevere with doctrine or ignore it is also part of the wrestling and it is also part of the fun.
Not everybody enjoys it and there are some who never seem to learn to play well with others. Still, fun is there to be found.
I don't know that the Reverend denBok actually answers the question.
Grace and peace to you.
John