Someone else already said this somewhere...

So, the pope walks into a bar...

On so many levels, Pope Francis is what the Roman Catholic Church needs right now. He is a back-to-basics pope. Ditch the frills and start living the Cross.

Alas, no major movement on the various theological sore points that would help move them even further along (e.g. the status of women). Some loosening and more sympathetic talk (e.g. his remarks on homosexuality a while ago), but the basic framework has not changed.

Still, I see more hope in him than in either of his predecessors.

Then again, I am not RC and not likely to be unless something really drastic happens (like me suffering a serious blow to the head or Francis completely rewriting the playbook on RC theology).

Mendalla

He is a good start. He's done a lot in a short time, just by being there- there's an obvious change afoot, on a conscious level. I think, on many levels, he represents everyday RC's, who are just everyday people anyway- friends, neighbours- and that's why he's being noticed by so many of all faiths. I agree that change does not seem to happen very quickly in the RC institution- but he has stepped up the pace, and his approach is unique (for someone of his stature particularily). I don't agree with him on everything, and that's okay. I don't expect him to change everything at once. He reminds me of an elder relative I'd enjoy being around. Everybody's favourite uncle Frank! I really like that familial quality about him- as opposed to the ceremonial figurehead aspect.

He's a bit of a 'black sheep of the family' pope. It's endearing-as black sheep of the family often are. Even many of those who disagree with him on some old ideas he still carries (for now), can't help but love him. He's out there being himself, and his self is just a salt of the earth, good humoured, kind of guy. He takes his job seriously, but he doesn't seem to take himself too seriously.

A wedge serves well when certain outcomes are anticipated. We do well to remember that the wedge is employed narrow end first. Change is incremental and begins with a small shift in trajectory. To expect a full reversal at the outset leads to dissappointment.

George

What tangible change has actually occurred because of Francis? Yes, he said some nice things about gays and atheists....and then some cardinals clarified the remarks to show that Francis didn't actually mean anything progressive by his words, and that nothing has changed. Francis could have rejected these steps backward by his cardinals, but he did not.

I'm waiting for the firings, excommunications, and criminal charges against cardinals, bishops, priests and other Vatican officials who have been involved in child sex abuse coverups and financial improprieties, including money laundering. Hear anything about that eminating from the Vatican? Me neither. A few police raids, arrests and convictions around the world, but nothing initiated by the Vatican.

So, while I too was hopeful because of Francis' more humble approach to the papacy, there is no tangible difference. He seems to want us to be satisfied by the nicer, less authoritarian tone he sets, compared to Ratzinger. Lots of people are buying the nice-guy-who-does-nothing game he's playing. He's quite smart.

Francis is likely sitting on a powderkeg of information. To act on it would set off an explosion. Will he act, for the sake of the sexual and financial victims? Or will he do what Benedict and JP II did, and hope it goes away?

Firings. Excommunications. Criminal charges. And then a whole lot of repentance and damages paid to victims from their deep pockets. That's what's called for. Wearing a cross of iron instead of gold is hardly an action.

The guilty are escaping justice by simply dying of old age. The victims aren't far behind in many cases, and the spectre of new victims is very likely.

Where the Vatican is concerned, slow change is an option they no longer have. They have dragged their feet far too long already. If they ever had that luxury (and that's debatable), it is long gone now.

The less authoritarian tone he sets, is doing something. Change people's minds, attitudes first. That's foundational. Encourage people to be more caring about those who are disadvantaged, those who have no 'voice'- be with them and hear them. It's the weak and marginalized that always have the least power and most vulnerability to abuse in this world- and he is bringing them up. I think he knows that. An ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure. So, level out the hierarchy as a start (but not too drastically all at once because everything would implode), little by little- which he himself is being a good example of. So that change can start to happen from the people, not from the church 'authority'. He is diminishing his role- while still giving guidance. He is tackling the abuse issues- he's just not tackling them like a bull in a china shop. I think he has a longer term strategy/ vision. You would like him to rip the rug out and gut everything immediately, chansen? He's only been pope of a 2000 year old church for half a year. That people who paid no attention to the RC church or popes before, are noticing him and feeling encouraged by his active compassion at the 'street level' is HUGE. I doubt that any of us could do any better at being the leader of a 2000 year old culturally entrenched institution. You try it (no, please don't).

No it's not long gone now, obviously. Things are changing. It's happening. Get used to it.

There's nothing to get used to. Nothing is happening.

For me to get used to change, there kinda has to be some change.

Update the thread when something happens.

It is happening- attitudes are changing. That is bigger than slapping a bunch of rules down on the books, and lowering the gavel down. You don't see it, you're firmly planted in your cynical position, and I pity you. The world may change around you while you're still complaining that it should be happening your way, which you decided is the only way, therefore it can't be good. Maybe you should change the way you think- change your attitude.

No social change ever came about without a shift in attitude first.

I'm in the middle here. His move to get away from the high-living style that the Vatican has enjoyed in the past is, as Kimmio suggests, a good start and I commend him for that. But, as chansen rightly suggests, he has yet to make tangible efforts to deal with the pile of crap that the sex scandals, cover-ups, and other corruption have laid down over the reigns of JPII and Benedict. Of course, you'd need the administrative and theological equivalent of a bulldozer to move that much poop in any decent amount of time and I'm not sure he has one at his disposal.

Mendalla

Exactly! Chansen wouldn't be happy, I don't think, unless Francis declared the RC church closed, the Vatican up for sale, and every priest arrested, the day after he was elected. His cynicism misses the point that it is not just a religion, it's a culture. And cultural change to a place that old, with so many people the world over belonging to it, I think, needs to come from the inside out- without destroying it (because that would quite possibly destroy a lot of people and descend into more emotional chaos- chansen seems to ignore that potential. Doesn't care. Misses how dictatorial and awful an impact that would be) and Francis is doing the best, I think, that anyone could right now.

What Mendalla said.  Thing is, he's only the Pope.  He doesn't have the political power, in practice, to do everything that should be done.  He's a bit of a figurehead, and he's doing what a decent-minded figurehead can reasonably be expected to do.  Is he a "fix" for the RCC?  Nah.  But he's defnitely a positive move.

Yes, but changing attitudes, does foster change in political processes- even if not directly mandated (i.e. seperation of church and state is still maintained- but it is moronic to think that culture doesn't impact political and policy choices- people will vote according to how they think and live. If the voting reflects a more compassionate attitude change, regardless of whether it was motivated by religious culture or any other culture, I'm all for it. If it reflects the selfish attitudes of the status quo now- the outcome's going to still suck- our society, even though it is better than some, kinda sucks- it's getting more and more uncaring, and it's not all religion's fault. It's mostly consumerism and corporate culture that's killing our compassion. That's something chansen doesn't seem to want to admit).

The Pope walks into a bar. "What'll it be, your Eminenz," says the bartender, who recognises him despite his simple street clothes.

"I don't drink alcohol, except at communion," says the Pope to the bartender. "So you may serve me and my sisters and brothers here a glass of fine red wine, cut up a baguette, deal out the pieces together with the wine, and we'll make this into a Holy Communion and your bar into a Temple of God."

The bartender serves everyone their wine and bread. The Pope lifts his piece of bread, takes a bite, and says "The body of Christ."

They all lift their bread, take a bite, and repeat; "The body of Christ."
 

Then the Pope lifts his glass, takes a deep drink, and exclaims: "The blood of Christ!"

The other, likewise, lift their glasses, take a deep drink and exclaim: "The blood of Christ!"

"My dear friends," says the Pope, "you can take this literally. Christ is the totality of being, as a unified whole. And the love of Christ binds it together into a unified whole. Whatever you consume is the body and blood of Christ. Bear this in mind when you consume. May God bless you, and keep you, and guide you."

The Pope pays and leaves. "Long live Pope Francis!" shout the patrons as he walks out.  

Our compassion isn't getting worse - it's getting better. You want ugly, go back a few generations, before health care and social safety nets. As many holes as these nets have, they're still better than what your great grandparents had.

And people still give, too. Yes, there are the selfish, but to say there weren't a lot of selfish people a generation or two ago is a lie. It's also is a slap in the face of young people of the legitimate occupy movement and those protesting the treatment of people half a world away.

People still care. Probably in similar proportions to how they always cared. To point to Apple sales and Louis Vuitton bags as evidence of greed completely ignores that we've been like this for hundreds of years. We've always lusted for a Cadillac over a Chevrolet, a Rolex over a Timex.

So stop with the bullshit that consumerism and corporate culture is killing our compassion. You're looking at the past through rose-coloured glasses. Some people are always going to be this way. Some people are not. The religious love to tell us this, as if some return to faith is going to save us from consumerism, but the religious are hardly immune to rampant consumerism, either.

If you want to find identifiable groups actively working to make sure girls don't get potentially life-saving vaccines, or limiting access to contraceptives that results in unwanted pregnancies and perpetuates the cycle of poverty, or trying to force it's rules on others and actively trying to prevent people who aren't even members of their church from being happy together, look at churches today. And not just the more obvious nutcases like the Mormons, either. Look at the Catholic Church.

Absolutely, he's a better figurehead, and he talks a better game, but of all the really impressive things he has said about women or gays or atheists or other religions, that got positive news coverage, which ones were not "clarified" later by a cardinal or Vatican spokesman?

Hell, of all the positive articles about what Francis has said, which were then "clarified", what columnists followed up about Francis' words being misinterpreted?

Francis is still in the honeymoon phase. Ideally, there are changes coming. I get that. I get the cultural point. But I also get that we're dealing with real serious crimes here. If the Canadian cultural meeting place, Tim Hortons, was found to be shielding child rapists in their workforce and regional offices were shuttling pedopholes between franchises, and head office was probably laundering money for the mafia, if they (and the RCMP) didn't act right away, every Tim's from Victoria to St. John's would be levelled. I just don't get how a religion gets away with this stuff, and why they are immune from the outrage of so many, who apparently care more about religion than anything else, including kids and organized crime.

I think the pendulum has always swung from left to right and back again- and we are at a time in our society where the pendulum is so far to the right, that even those who identify with the centre left look 'crazy'- or impractical at best. We are so dazed and dazzled by all the stuff we can buy, on credit, over the Internet- who has time to notice the marginalized. They have nowhere to 'pencil it in' (update their iPhone calendars). More than ever before, our culture has become about the right to buy, more than the right to be. He (or she) who has the most toys, wins. The occupy movement was nothing compared to Birmingham and the civil rights movement across the US. It was a blip in history, comparatively. Nothing really happened, right? It got noticed for awhile, but it hasn't held people's attention- because, hey, look- a new IPhone! Come fetch! Noone wanted to miss too many episodes of Breaking Bad, I guess- so, it was kind of fizzling out. Sure the issues got noticed, but people moved on as if it never happened. . It was a noble effort that amounted, unfortunately, into a bunch of young people who couldn't articulate what was needed to change. It didn't have staying power. It was positive at first, but without a unified position about what it was they were asking for (it was a mixed bag of every problem with no clear solutions- a two month long world wide venting session) it fell apart.

I do think young people, and I include myself as fairly young even though I'm approaching middle age, need too understand history better, and understand culture better. We have come to a place where deep thought, using all faculties available to us, along with all the compassion we can find, is not respected, and quick results are expected- and people just don't have the attention span or the interest to formulate a long term plan or creative vision. I am disappointed by occupy. But, I am pretty sure Pope Francis was watching it intently- and he understood the frustrations expressed.

A lovely accounting of that moment in that bar, where those friends were gathered in the passage of their time.

Hello each and all.....

Finding direction in traces left on pages by Carl Jung, I read the world semiotically. Or, if you prefer, symbolically. I do not see things as events but as signs. These signs appear in the context of my ordinary experience in the ordinary world.

I liked hearing that Francis wears black leather shoes. Since my thirtieth  birthday I have been shining a pair of second hand black leather, high topped shoes. They tend to wear out, I am a busy streetwalker, in about two years. While one pair is in use, I keep my eyes open, on my regular visits to local thrift stores. To this day, I have managed to find replacement shoes at just about the time I require them.

We are, each of us and all of us, communicators of that which we experience and that which we think and feel regarding that experience. We communicate by many means, one of which is speech.

In my story Francis is the anti-Pope. The actual pope, the actual good common person pressing for simplicity and compassion is distributed through the whole of the present human population. The actual pope is present in persons everywhere who embody the mandate uttered in the Jewish Isaiah and the Gentile Luke. That is where what Christ makes available may be experienced. Nowhere else.

These two witness are in agreement on one thing.It is the thing Pinga has noticed elsewhere. It is our practical action in service to the need of those who stand in need all about us that matters.

This is nothing against Francis. He knows, as well as all who understand the times, that this is the part he is called and appointed to play. He knows as well as any other that the time has come for persons to stand forward in the call to justice by the way of mercy.

Just now there are many in the earth who are set to applaud Francis. I find applause to be a distraction. It seems to let folk off the hook. Better to say, I admire the example and will do what I am able to make it present in my experience. What is given as words and pictures from Rome, I will make present in the place where I encounter family, friend, neighbour and stranger.

Here is my confidence. Now, in the whole earth, a spiritual body is achieving coherence and taking form. Persons from every tribe, tongue and nation are being drawn to the opportunity for service in the name of the Divine Union of their human being. That service is wholly oriented to the healing of creation. Creation much abused and deeply wounded by the human folly by which division is exploited to the advantage of a few by the cost of the many..

The change we have longed for is now well underway. It is taking place in the particular human being and calling for a decision for or against unity in the spirit. With each decision for unity the change is advanced. We are now approaching a critical mass in the earth. At some moment the fullness of decision for unity will be sufficient to engender a quantum shift. Our addiction to the material will be abandoned and our liberty in the spirit by liberated.

This is not to say we will abandon material being. Indeed, we are ultimately concerned to stop the process of destruction and give all for the project of restoration. What we abandon is the misuse and abuse of the material in the service of profit and power. Rather, we will devote all available resources to discovering, by Science, the right use of material being.

Some along this temporary sojourn, in this almost place, have made plain that progress along the way of unity is being realized. Others have discover the way and are taking hesitant first steps. Others are watching and some of those others are wondering.

The mass media is being used by persons interested in outcomes beneficial to power. The media is making Francis known in the world. The media is not listening in while inner conversations determine patterns and purposes for the achievement of sovereignty.

I am pretty much with "chansen" on this. The "Sancta Sedes" has much to answer for. We are advised to awareness concerning the appearing of that which puts itself in the place of Christ, so that we have the pinnacle of a pyramid (power structured vertically) rather than the centre of a circle (power structured horizontally).

My partner travels globally. She brought home a story from Prague. She attended the performance of a marionette orchestra. Puppets appearing to play while a hidden orchestra provided the music. Those puppets animated by clever hand manipulations of nearly invisible strings. When a persons achieves prominence in history, I always look for the nearly invisible strings.

Now I am thinking of Plato's cave. Most folk are well satisfied with being confined to the world of appearances. Some are curious and digress. Such digression may well lead to peril. It may also lead to light.

George

The Pope is touring the US. He has a busy itinerary & needs to lead a mass in another city.
He and his chauffeur head out onto the highway, and after a few miles, the pope asks the driver of the limo to pull over.
"I would like to drive for a change, he said. "I love to drive, but I seldom get the chance." Reluctantly, the chauffeur sits in the back - trading places with the Pope & off they went again. Turns out the Pope had a lead foot and before long they were followed by a State Trouper - lights flashing to pull over.
When the cop saw who was driving, he went back to his cruiser and got on the radio to the Chief.

"You'll never guess who I just pulled over!", he said excitedly.

"The Governor?" asked the Chief.

"Nope - he's much more important than the Governor".

"Then it must be a famous Hollywood star."

"Nope - way more important than that."

"You didn't just pull over the President, did you?"

"Nope - not the President either - this guy is way more important."

The chief was getting impatient and asked the Trouper, "Well who in hell did you pull over?"
The Trouper replied, " Y'know, to tell you the truth, I have no idea, BUT THE POPE'S HIS CHAUFFEUR!"

George, I don't think the pope is putting on appearances. I believe he really wants to help change things for the better. I am in no hurry to join the RC church- and I don't think the pope is out to recruit me. I could be wrong, but I think he's giving his all to the opportuniTy

ty he has to use his status to reach out and spread compassion and he does not care if the people are, or become, Catholic. He's paying his token bit to

Caesar but he's concerned with God and the common people.

I'm riding the bus now. More later.

I was going to say, but that bus ride wasn't the best time to write...I talked to an older man at the bus stop (which happens to be in front of a pub) who was panhandling- with a heavy Glasgow accent and boisterous laughter. He told me some jokes with some gritty Scottish humour- cracked me up! then told me, he's pretty sure God's a she, with a crazy sense of humour. And he told me he was raised Catholic, and he likes the new pope. He thinks he's working to heal the pain the church has caused, and he's likes that he not so fancy, cares about people and is reaching out. Fine recommendation for me to like him, too. I believe him. I believe him more than church historians and Vatican spin doctors. This guy knows what he's talking about- knows how to tell if the pope or anyone, is authentic. He's experienced with the difference. He can sense it.

George,

I am not clear, if your comments are not against Francis for the role he is called to play- then why are you calling him the anti-pope? He is anti-wealth, in a wealthy place. That's ironic, yes- but how else is he supposed to make the point clear- without working from the inside-out of that old institution- to point out, even be, that irony. If he were just like the previous popes, he'd be pressing to keep the wealth and corruption hidden, and everything exactly the same. I am not sure I agree with you this time. Sounds superstitious. Francis has done more with a few gestures and speeches, to get people, who rarely think about it, thinking about what following Christ means, all the charlatans over the past several decades could have. Even if they don't change religions. I admire what he's doing, while understanding that he is human and also while being aware that I don't have to agree with everything he's doing.

...and says "No, I'm unfillable"

"Well, if the Pope is his chauffeur, then the guy must be—God!?" exclaimed the chief incredulously.

Kimmio if you posted this post on a website for those who have been abused by the Catholic church you would probably be receiving outraged and indignant responses. Same goes for a more feminist website. Here it is safe to ask the questions as most of us offer our comments from an advantaged position, that of mere observers. We watch, we don't protest out loud or demand reform. We're polite and the world likes this likable guy, but it is from our unwounded postition that we should be demanding accountability....I'm with Chansen on this one. I get how slow it takes to change the culture in the past, but in our current technological stage of development, we have the means to inform and change attitudes without waiting for centuries for others to hear the cries of the oppressed.The Pope has inherited a mess and by being it's representative it's up to him to show some true leadership...if that means martyrdom and offending the church elite....so be it.

I say give the guy some time, he's at least pointed in the right direction.

The early 20th century?

Let me just quote the timestamp on this one, for posterity.

Maybe they should just go back to the way they were doing it before by the sounds of things here ...

Is that conservative, republican, stoic  or what?

Do roches bend?

Why outraged responses? What did I say against them? What is he doing that's against those who've been abused? As for feminism, I agree he's not gone far enough forward for women's leadership. If he allowed nuns to preach and run parishes without being labelled 'priests' (but doing the same job with equal compensation), and if head nuns had the same voting powers as bishops, that might be a better step forward. That would reduce the word "priest" to a difference in label only. And LGBT issues, more work to be done. Their position on abortion won't move much, I don't think. But he's only just started. Any idea how much red tape must exist for a new guy running a 2000 yr old church to wade through and figure out?

That's the point - nothing tangible, for or against. He should be working for the victims. So far...words.

I mean, waterfall and I agree on this. The writing is on the wall.

Have you read *anything* Francis has said or written?!? In September, he excommunicated an Australian priest who supported women priests and same sex marriage, not that he participated in any rituals for either.

Let me repeat that: Pope Francis excommunicated a priest who simply supported women priests and same sex marriage.

That I'm aware, he has not excommunicated a single pedophile priest or any bishop who protected pedophile priests. With all the scandals revolving around the Vatican, the hammer came down on the guy who said women could make fine priests and gays should be able to marry. Take a look at the Google results for the simple search phrase "Francis excommunicates pedophile". That should make you throw up.

By another comparison, remember the German bishop who spent $42 million on his private residence? Suspended, not excommunicated. An action taken by Francis, not Benedict.

Further, in his apostolic exhortation, Evangelii Gaudium, he slays out that women priests are "not open to discussion".

Look, you simply have no idea what you're talking about here. And again, if you don't know something, don't make up an answer. You've decided you like him and he's a good guy and you think it's a matter of time before he moves on issues. Meanwhile, he has written that he's not budging, and he has already excommunicated a priest for supporting what you expect he will eventually support.

Who should we believe about Francis' positions? You, or Pope Francis?

You're simply being so negative and arrogant all the time about anything regarding religion that you can't even see your way through to contemplate why I might like the pope. Ya. I decided I like him. Oh, dear!...guess what? I like you too believe it or not. I don't like your behaviour all the time. Better than deciding not to like everybody because of anything you disagree with. He's doing more good than previous popes. That's positive. No, he hasn't shut down the Vatican. If that's what you hope for...I really doubt that'll happen, ever. Positive progress, however small, is better than nothing- and better than cynicism and negativity all the time.

I'm not demanding he shut down the Vatican! I'm saying he should direct that the internal records for all accusations of sexual abuse in any Catholic Church in the world be turned over to local authorities. Firther, he should guarantee that, if a local diocese goes bankrupt over damages paid to victims, the Vatican will cover the difference.

I'm saying that the people responsible for raping children, and the organization responsible for enabling these child rapists, be held accountable, even if they are religious. Crazy, right?

Once again, Kimmio, you've made a decision based on what you think is happening, instead of what is actually happening. Did you read my last post at all? Do you have anything to say about Pope Francis excommunicating the women-priest-supporting priest, but not a single pedophile priest? I'm sorry that the facts don't support your position, but are you going to address that at all, or are you going to pretend it didn't happen?

Okay, I don't agree with that decision, either. I support your recommendations regarding records of abuse and accountability. Particularly with regard to people still alive, and especially priests still working. Bringing all the skeletons out of the closet (st. Peter's bones- there's irony), though, too fast and furiously, might cause a lot of pain to families if not done carefully and compassionately- allow the hurt families and victims decide how they want to deal with it- not how the world thinks they should. I still like him. When looked at from outside, the solution may look different, more obvious than for those who've lived through abuse. They may not all want their cases to be public records, dragged through the courts and spread through the media- who will have a field day. That's painful. Reopening wounds for some who have spent years healing. Maybe it should be handled like the UCC (and originally Mandella) handled Truth and Reconcilliation.

One day, the common folk everywhere will be "the church".

I think the role, is a collective one, in every human heart. I think that the church "body" and "throne" will be one and the same thing- with no identifiable "ruler"- not one human being- but many, acting as one, with some in the position to be guides, better than others.

Hi Kimmio...

I struggled with the term, "anti-pope" and decided to stay with it. After posting I thought to edit, but chose not too. Saying this I make clear my understanding of the problems the phrase introduces. Something to struggle with in the hope of resolution.

I know that Francis is where he is by the same providence that has me where I am. I assume that he is as conscious of his opportunity as I am of mine. That is, I trust that Francis is a man of integrity who has counted the cost and made a decision to take on a heavy responsibility.

Saying "anti-pope" I am suggesting that he is wrongly considered the direct representative of Christ on earth, and that this ought not to be. Christ is fully present in the whole population of persons (not institutions) who trust in and follow the way opening to Divine Unity in human experience. This includes persons of every tongue, every tribe and every nation.

I recognize that I am not making things any clearer. Perhaps I am not able to do so at this time. There is an intuition in play which I am not able to represent as language just now. I will work on it over time.

There is goodness available in the public witness of Francis. I value that goodness in him as I value it in any other, as I value it in myself.

Thanks for raising the question.

George

Now this I have to get my head around, You see "things" as events. You choose to see (and not see} many things does one not? (As well of course of seeing much you'd rather not. ) "Seeing is believing " my Grandfather used to say. (A way to call someone a liar)

Quantum phyisicists declare that the very act of seeing changes the thing seen.

So does reflection, information, and a hundred things I'm not smart enough to list.

If you will be so kind as to allow a small sinking to smart-ass mode: 

I too see signs, most begin "Don't" ...

(Avoiding all Shoe soul jokes)

Last year my younger daughter (55) surprised me with a pair of awsomely priced,

amazingly comfortable shoes which will last at least 15 years...and, being 86. I think that is perfect timing...

We are, each of us and all of us, communicators of that which we experience and that which we think and feel regarding that experience. We communicate by many means, one of which is speech.

Which provided my income for 60 years...

The actual pope, the actual good common person pressing for simplicity and compassion is distributed through the whole of the present human population.

Sooooo you want a Pope-pouree?

It will never happen and I know why

My answer would make you sigh

It would take too long to tell

And require a different thread as well...

few Mansions?

(If I I were an anything, it'd probly be a panenthiest...and, in a multiverse, there might be billions of Gods...! 

Here is my lack of confidence...humans have been warring and have always won by means of superior technololgy. For tens of thousands of years.

Currently that is atomic bombs. Guided from space to anywhere on the planet.

Long and often sought.

(I sincerely wish I believed in any of that. We've got drones, space bombs -- lots of things that make it easier to kill -- lots more at a time...

Greed has no signs of lessening...neither has desire for power  in ANY part of the globe.  

Uh....striking out evolution from school text books is not a good begining....

I wonder. This IS the Wonder Cafe is it not?

Yep, people in power don't want to let go, Talk about a tradition!

When a few million people show their interest (by ratings) The "Money is to be made!" Bell starts it loud clanging....

Most folk? I am certainly not satisfied with the appearence of qualia. Too brisliy. And pin-striped. Ugh!

George, your posts are always a pleasure

I get it! It's clear now. :)

http://m.thestar.com/#!/opinion/pope-franciss-humble-moral-exemplar/756a0cc6aadd007eda4aae049565739f

I am very glad to have this new pope on the world stage....

I can understand the temptation to point out not enough movement on this ... and not enough done about that......     How I wish that such a large ship could be turned that quickly and easily.   I am just a puny rowboat and I find it quite enough of a challenge to change my direction and biases.   From my posting history here it would be quite apparent that as captain of my own ship I have a ways to go.

I sense a good honest heart in this pope.    He leads by such simple and down to earth example.   The wonderful thing is that he is not doing it to be an example .... that just happens to be a result.   We would do well to emulate that approach ... do good just because ... not for religion ... not for attention .... just because....

I really appreciate GeoFee's wedge analogy....   This pope is a wedge .... the right kind of wedge.   I say this while he still has a long ways to go to dealing with my kind.   I will leave room for that .    Should that never come .... at least the Roman Catholic Church is better for his leadership and that I support.   I am all about things moving in a better direction.

This pope I support.....

Regards

Rita

.

My point remains that Francis acted swiftly to excommunicate a priest who only indicated his support for women priests and gay marriage.

He was excommunicated for an opinion.

So, Francis has shown he can move decisively. Just not against pedophiles or the people who enabled them.

Wrong thread. Moved post.

that he did chansen .... the pope did move swiftly....

I wonder how much of that was from those under him ..... however ... he does hold the final say in his actions.  I do not defend him for that.

I was not trying to cast Pope Francis as the greatest thing since sliced bread.

All I was trying to do is point out that in a very bad organization that there was at least a glimmer of change.     There is much to do on women's rights and LGBTQ issues for sure.   I don't feel that he is the one that will make the big strides.... however ... he has at the very least began to change the tone.    That is a start ... ableit a small one.....

At least this one has not likened me to the destruction of the rainforest.

To me .... change starts with a change in tone.... in that I feel hope.

This matters to me because it matters to so many of my LGBTQ brothers and sisters of all ages that are in the Roman Catholic Church.    It is not easy to walk away from a devout faith and there are also those young persons trapped by their parents.   This does not make any of this right .... but it is reality ... and any positive change is good change.

Regards

Rita