Americans are predominantly Christians, Christianity is insane, and Mormons are at the upper end of that scale.  What the hell are you expecting these candidates to say?  There is nothing new here.

Christianity-Lite, in all its forms, will go on pretending that the rest of its family is not completely bonkers, and they certainly wouldn't think of calling them out on it.

Pointing this out is like remarking that water is wet.

I stand corrected.

Graeme, is the notorious Romney speech in question viewable online, or is a major chunk of his speech/ interview quoted extensively anywhere?  On the face of it, the claim seem so outrageous I feel the need to check it for nuance and context.

Romney's speech was given at The Citadel - a military college in South Carolina. Romney's words were: 

"This is America's moment. We should embrace the challenge, not shrink from it, not crawl into an isolationist shell, not wave the white flag of surrender, nor give in to those who assert America's moment has passed. That is utter nonsense. ... This century must be an American century. In an American century, America has the strongest economy and the strongest military in the world, God did not create this country to be a nation of followers. America is not destined to be one of several equally balanced global powers. America must lead the world, or someone else will."

Here is the entire text - Text of Mitt Romney’s Speech on Foreign Policy at The Citadel.

Read in the context of the audience, The Citadel is a military college, the Ra Ra Warrior theme is a given.  Note the word 'God" appears only twice, in the paragraph Rev. Davis highlighted and at the end Thank you, and God Bless the United States of America.

I'm not a fan of GOP policies but of the contenders in their presidential race Romney pales in lunacy to Michelle Bachmann - Minnesota's Sarah Palin - and Rick 'No Sex' Santorum.

LB

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Quote me as saying I was mis-quoted.

     Groucho Marx

I have to rush off to give a writing class.        

I  have the site. It's Fox News. And the words are God wants the US to dominate the world.

Ii shall get it out and and send it on after writing class.

The same words appear in other reports.

Romney well know he was speaking to a national audience, not just a group of cadets.

In fact, I gave a google reference. Obviously, nobody bothered to look it up.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                         l                                                                              

Get off it, graeme. I looked it up. There are 3 possibilities: you're wrong in how you've cited Romney's words - or you deliberately chose to mislead people into thinking he said something that he didn't say - or you don't know how to read. I think you know how to read, so that leaves the first two. You put "God wants the United States to dominate the world" in quotation marks, saying "Mr. Romney gave a speech in which he said ..." which gives not only the impression that Romney used those words but which says that you're saying that Romney used those words; that you're citing it as a fact. I've used your search terms; I've read the FOX News report. FOX never quoted him as saying that. In fact, FOX never even used the exact term that you put in quotation marks - so why the quotation marks? Who used those words, graeme? I think it was you! At least I haven't seen anyone else use those exact words.

What Romney said - and LB has posted the entire text of the speech, for goodness' sake, which does not include the line you've quoted him as saying - was "... God did not create this country to be a nation of followers." You may agree or disagree with that; you may interpret his words as meaning what you've said; you may even be offended by that. I for one don't believe God created the United States to do anything - I don't think God gets involved in nation building, except perhaps for ancient Israel.

Now, what you've QUOTED him as saying may be implied by those words, but the problem is that he didn't say that. Any university student who QUOTED someone as saying something that they didn't say would be in big trouble when  they submitted their term paper. I'm hoping that you're not going to give your writing class any instructions on how to quote people.

Romney is fully correct ...

The US deficit on military options will suck the whole world into the pits ... consider the minor role of Greece? Then is this a echo of history? Did Roman Empirics of God take the world into a Dark Age ... Gods are indeed funny things without the balance of psyche ... but chi is a pain to emotional sorts. Something that they don't wish to know ...memorize it for the test and put the 'hole thing back on the shelf as rapture .. a separation from thought precessing across open space? That's Maqon in old Hebrew ... but you'd never learn that from focussing on Latin, tacticus tongue before stategic higher order took over unconsciously ... superior egos, or just Roman Eagles appearing as Ka Deuces in hiding ... covenanted? Sort of like fabric of imaginary territory! What mortals knows much in over confident state? He doesn't know how to dig ... in the shitty stuff ... won't go there? Get ouda Eire ... OBI?

It is said that intellect (psyche) lies beyond ais ack of willies ...

Hi graeme,

The only "headline" that I could find putting Romney, God and Dominance together is on CTV.  I've linked here for your benefit.

http://www.ctv.ca/CTVNews/World/20111007/romney-world-dominance-111005/

The "headline" appears to be more interpretation on CTV's part than it is a factual reporting of what Romney actually said.  As LBmuskoka pointed out God is only used twice.

Fox runs the headline, "Romney:  God Wants the U.S. to Lead, Not Follow" and I've added that link below.

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2011/10/07/romney-god-wants-us-to-lead-not-follow/

The headline is still an interpretation of Romney's speech though it appears to be closer to communicating Romney's thought than CTV's interpretation.

The phrase "Century of American Dominance" appears on a headline on KPMH which is a Fox affiliate and I've added that link below.

http://www.kmph.com/story/15638738/romney-god-wants-us-to-lead-not-follow

Again the phrase is an interpretation and not a direct quote.  That other sites have repeated that headline doesn't make it accurate.

Rev.  Steven Davis has pulled the direct quote.  What Romney calls for is an "American Century" and Romney defines what an American Century looks like by highlighting the strongest military and the strongest economy.

Grace and peace to you.

John

Who supports the strongest military ... the weakest economy? Hints strongly of support by the weaker power ... where thought resides!

well, if they are supposed to have the 'strongest economy', they got a heckuva lotta work to do there.

and a few years ain't gonna fix it, either.

We have to chose whether to follow reason or instinct.

It seems to me that our genes tell us to support the warlord and he will protect us. Part of our instinct based on bondage and flock behavior. Seems to have kept our genes alive while the human race has been evolving.

When we are afraid, instinct overrides reason and we are inclined to vote for the most ferocious warlord.

At least that is the way Naman sees it. Please tell me where you do not agree.

quote:   Is there a sermon in there?   Nah - next Sunday we'll find out what Jesus had to say about ---something.   (No, we won't be doing Songs of Solomon, either.)

Graeme - may I draw your attention to the closing sentence of your opening post.  You have already stated in your other thread about this very topic that a sermon on this topic would be useless.  Then why should we bother?  

And what does your bracketed post script have to do with anything?

You all looked up sources? Gee whiz. I couldn't do that. If you google Romney God wants American domination - you will get 1,190,000 sites. (No, CTV was not the only one covering the story.)  You'll also find the quotation in Fox News - a site that has no reason to make Romney look bad.

And if you insist he said world leadership - how the hell do you think he would achieve world leadership without war? What's the difference between world leadership and world conquest and world dominance? You didn't notice he was clear on raising the military budget? that was a world conquest speech, play games as you like with it.

check 1,190,000 sites, and get back to me. No - don't. I've long since learned you cannot convince people of something they don't want to believe.

Sheesh, what a collection of Kiplingesque bishops praising the empire for doing good.

Take up the white man's burden.....

OK graeme, I did that. I googled "Romney God wants American domination." I got "about 2,000,000 results." I've checked the top 20 - exactly how far do you want me to go. I don't have time to check all 2 million. The ones I checked all agree: he did not say what you've quoted him as saying. Every source that bothers to offer a quote says that he said "God did not create America to be a nation of followers."

Why can't you just admit that you made a mistake and that you misquoted him?

Hi graeme,

What you wanted us just to take your word on it?

Nor was that even claimed.

Not like Fox's affiliate wasn't also quoted either was it.

What economics isn't weapon enough?

How narrowly are you defining each for us?

I noticed it.  On the face of it not that surprising a claim to make when speaking before a particularly military crowd.  If he was planning on cutting the military budget I wouldn't expect him to do it in the same place.

Appeal to popularity aside you make a point.  Some people see only what they wish to see.  At present I'm not convinced that you aren't susceptible to the same flaw.

Grace and peace to you.

John

Hi seeler,

The appearance may be deceiving.  It looks like an appeal to ridicule.

Grace and peace to you.

John

I'm grateful for this debate on accuracy.  Even if Graeme has exaggerated Romney's 
"world dominance" values, I  am very concerned about the residual influence of the Manifest Destiny doctrine and the related Republican desire to increase our military budget at a time when the economy is desperately bad and poor diabetics seem destined to lose their insulin supplies.  My church is increasingly active in searching for new ways to fight for the poor and meet their needs, but government cutbacks are on the rise every year and our local poor are being terrorized by news of additional cutbacks that our local counseling center insists will cost lives.   Sometimes I feel like America is becoming a third world country. 

Whether overstated or not, Graeme, I appreciate your prophetic role on this site and indeed hope to address your concerns in future sermons.  But my challenge is this: I hate token protests that make no difference.  My  role is to assess what my and other local churches can actually do to make a constructive difference for the few we really can help.  This Thursday, I'm helping form a homeless task force.   There is a wonderful young man living in a tent in the woods near our church.  His brains are fried by past drug use, but he is desperate to get the medical care, meds,  and counselng heeds.  He is a gifted musician with a heart of gold.  His plight has radicialized my political attitudes. 

It's possibly unsanitary, the way you (often) take words right out of my mouth...

Word play and phun are great ways of creating dissonance (Eris) in the greater psychic values. Then, if we remove the Hebrew silent holy letter, the metaphor is revealed unknown to most of the sum ... the integrally real? Is there an other below the myths of the ivory tower ... the great white shaft? Does ID appear pure? Then in Heiseinberg perspective ... you don't know where it's ben ... Cos you believe you know where you are!

The poor consuming the rich ... omega'd what a poor diet of phat that would be! Reminds me of that article on consuming wee children in  archaic  Anglo Saxon Myth ... Dickensonian? Consuming god's children would have offensive after effects ... perhaps consuming the fallout of heaven would be more fecund mire in which people would learn to reflect ... think? Isn't that just a devilish thought!

If all the poor on the lower tier of pyramid us schemes were consumed ... how would that effect the market place as the largest plateau? Would those above fall at the loss of the foundation stone ... Romantic dummies would probably stumble over such potential th'aught .. what about that Theo? The rapturous Circe is here ... mostly thoughtless all the time for we don't feed and cultivate the paradigm as the bulking up of God as part of the whole thing ... that's all there is tuit phoqah! A real screw up as easy Kell's Wahl ... monster of phun ... metamorphocizes in time ... re volut shin Eire ...

Is that not what one is supposed to do?

Romney is a candidate for the GOP leadership and whether one accepts it or not, he is one of the more reasonable voices in a crowd of unreasonableness in that leadership race.  FOX News has not shown a fondness for  "reasonableness" and a distinct pattern for highlighting any indiscretions of the reasonable.  One can come to a conclusion on the reliability of that source based on past practices.

Romney is getting attacked by both sides in the American press.  That, for me, is always a sign to listen to what the person is really saying and not what others are saying they say.  Other's practice may differ.

Sheesh, a curmudgeon who cloaks oneself in journalistic integrity and then ignores the requirement of source checking.

Take up the yellow journalism credo....

LB

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He who fights with monsters might take care lest he thereby become a monster. And if you gaze for long into an abyss, the abyss gazes also into you.

      Friedrich Nietzsche