Wow, another person matching vague biblical prophecies to current events using threadbare interpretation and fallacies of equivopcation, and then claiming the world will end very soon....

 

What're the odds.....

 

You guys have been claiming "any day now" using "current events" for over 2000 years.

 

So far you've always been wrong by about... 100 PERCENT!

 

The intelligent people have decide to switch channels.

 

You might be advised as well that we don't really like racism around here.

POOF

*Bullcrap*  People who interpret prophecies other than those who prophesied are getting their information 3d hand. Scholars of the Old Testament couldn't get Jesus right so why would we get Revelations right. I don't give a rat's arse if the world ends or not, since I am a believer I am secure. I don't have anything to gain by calling others heathens, except to possibly being killed for being a jerk

And what if the beast actually happens to be US. Then what?

well, you guys speak for yourselves. Personally, I think this looks dead on. So the hell with everything.

I'm not going to brush my teeth tonight.

Interpreting current events to match what is written in the Bible is an old game for Christians. It's also been a very unfruitful one, given the number of times that a forecast "Apocalypse" has failed to materialize. No reason to believe that this one is any more likely.

 

So, what then do we make Revelations if it isn't about "end times to come"? Is there a way to look at Revelations with a view to finding a broader spiritual meaning to it?

 

Many sources that I've read talk about relating the symbolism to events in the time it was written. It was a letter that basically talked about the coming of Christ and the Kingdom being imminent and calling on Christians of that time to be prepared, but also to take heart because the hard times (persecution) would end and the wicked who were persecuting them would be punished. On a broader level, then, can it be taken as a call to persevere in faith even when doing so is unpopular or even dangerous?

 

Mendalla

 

Personally, I believe all the written teachings about Jesus coming again and all the stuff Brother Micheal talks about happens when I die. Not before or some time later, but when I die. I look at the teachings of Jesus and Paul as a call to repentance and through that salvation. Ya can't take this stuff literally, and ya can't presume to understand it unless God its you in the head with a revelation.

The part that confuses me is what do we have to gain or what does Micheal gain by looking for signs that Christ will come. For me Christ has come and for me He will come again when I give up my breath of oxygen and he takes me to wherever.

A mansion would be cool. I wonder how many bathrooms there are and if the souls from hell have to clean them. That's my revelation. I can prove it too. LOL

Here's a question:  Does religion make some people crazy, or do some crazy people gravitate towards religion?

   I'm still stuck on the thinking behind using Noah's Ark as a metaphor. Bizzare. I've never heard anything like this before.

 

 However the rest of the prophecy stuff I've been hearing in various similar versions for years and years.

 

Yes.

   For some reason, I thought no one here was interested in "Our Noah's Ark." I was surprised to see some replies. I'm glad to hear from everybody. Just a thought troyerboy, everyone does not have the same faith as you. If everyone thought as you, I would see no need to watch.  Since some people need that little extra, I give it to them. It is getting very close. Michae1

Dude.  You're not well.

   If anyone takes this thread seriously, now would be a good time to start watching.

Michae1

 

Both. The key word is "some." Maoist ideology - among other things - had the same effect!

   Is that your way of being discreet?  Are you really a Reverend, or is that just a word to you?

It's his way of being honest.  Hopefully you don't consider that to be off-limits to a Reverend.

 He may be honest, but he is not a teacher. Maybe he gets those two confused.

Michae1,

 

so now that you have all this predictive knowledge, what are you going to do with it?  Accept things as they are predicted to happen?  Fight to help the people that will be affected by these predictions?

Well, it is inevitable, our world is bound to come to an end within the next few billion years. I think that we should be focusing more on the environment a little more in order to give us a little more time here.

 

In my lifetime mankind has driven many of my fellow creatures into extinction. In short mankind has been the most destructive creature. 

    I am doing with this knowledge what has been required of me, to tell all Christians. It is not for me to decide what you will do with this information, it is for you. There is nothing that can be done concerning this information, except that people become aware of these fulfilled prophecies and understand them. Knowing these things can help a Christian to strengthen their faith. In some cases, it might even cause an unbeliever to believe. I take that last thought on faith. Some do not need their faith strengthened, or at least that's what they will tell you. I leave it to the individual to decide. I just take exception to a Reverend who wants to call me crazy for doing what is needed. Lastly, these prophecies are happening now. God put them there for us to understand, and my purpose is to help that process. Michae1

Right.  Because one honest post that you dislike in your thread, simply must mean that he's not a teacher in his role as Reverend.

 

Riiiiiiight.

 

Yup. I'm a real live Reverend. And actually, I didn't call you crazy. I agreed with chansen that religion creates some nuts, and that some nuts are attracted to religion. I think that's self-evident. I said nothing about you. If you choose to identify yourself as being among the "some" in question then that's a case of self-perception on your part. I don't know you well enough to be able to decide if I think you're crazy or not. That you and I may have different opinions or different interpretations of Scripture in itself renders neither of us crazy. 

 

My comment actually had more to do with a somewhat long-running and mostly good natured conversation between chansen and I as to the fact that both religion and ideology create fanatics and nuts, and therefore if he's so antagonistic toward religion he should be equally antagonistic toward ideology.

 

For the record, I don't agree with your interpretation of the Book of Revelation. However, as I said, that disagreement doesn't necessarily render you "nuts" in my mind. It means I think you're wrong. There's a substantial difference between the two.

  One of these days soon, we will all know the answers to these prophecies, and I will require an apology from the good Reverend.

 

Michae1,

 

I'm asking you.  Anyone can write what you wrote; writing is easy and speaking aboot these prophecies is easy.  Ok, the prophecies are predestined.  But what are you willing to do asides from just telling other people aboot it?  When the really strange stuff starts happening, the locusts and the falling star etc etc, what will you be willing to do?  Will you be willing to physically help people?  Will you only help Christians?  Will you be willing to help an unbeliever from physical death/pain at the hands of these prophecies?  Are you willing to help fund or even join organizations that are trying to help with the situation in the Middle East?  Or, because it is predestined, you can't do anything at all except tell others aboot what is going to happen?

    I will say it once more. It is my job to inform Christians of these prophecies, nothing more. If you feel that you need to do something more, that is a good thing. Every Christian has a job to do. Don't let me get in your way.

 

really??

 

all that suffering and destruction, seeing the face of god, and all you can think of will be 'man, that guy owes me an apology..'???

 

thats friggin' SAD.

well thats because the Good Rev is not a teacher, according to Micheal1,

 Micheal 1, now theres a teacher

Michae1,

 

So, if these prophecies are stopped (humanity fights G_d's forces, humanity stops the escalating war, a means is invented that renders war and violence moot) you will be ok with that?

 A man who calls himself a Reverend, and  insinuates I'm crazy on a public forum for posting what I have posted is no teacher. His words concerning me are an offense, which will be settled. A Reverend is held to a higher standard than the rest.

You all have a nice Day. Michae1

im no Reverend and i think yoru crazy

Hello Michae1 and welcome to WonderCafe,

 

 

Possibly.  Though not, I think, likely.

 

If you are right, then you will be right.  If you are wrong, having claimed the office of prophet, the only thing anyone will be required to give you is a stoning.

 

Given the history of false prophecy that has arisen around the Book of Revelation I suspect you are also wrong in your interpretation.

 

I will happily apologize if I am wrong in that discernment.

 

And if I am right, because I freely admit that I am not without sin, I won't be first in line at your stoning.  I'll just ask who the teacher is now.

 

Grace and peace to you.

John

As the famous survivor of the firebombing of Dresden wrote, some people just don't seem to like it very much, here.

 

I'll add that there are too many who seem to settle for far less than they are capable of and that is a shame and almost a crime.

 

As I just said I don't think you're crazy, because I don't know you well enough to make such a judgment. I just disagree with you. There are, however, 4 options. (1) You may be crazy. (2) You could be malevolent. Many "false prophets" have arisen who for their own gain have proclaimed the end of the world - and have been proved wrong. (3) You could simply be mistaken. All of us are mistaken more often than we care to admit and likely far more often than we even know. (4) You could be right. My own feeling is that Option 3 is the best bet. However, not knowing you I cannot dismiss any of the other 3 options either.

I sugest a dual, partner

 

  I need to clear something up for you. You are Assuming that I have claimed the office of a prophet,  which is wrong. I never claimed to be a prophet. A prophet is someone who writes Revelation from God, such as Isaiah, Daniel or Ezekiel. These prophets did not even know what their prophecies meant. They just took dictation. I am a watchman. I take these prophecies or scriptures that were written and apply them to their corresponding facts in their appointed times in history. If you don't think I realize the gravity of this situation, you are sadly mistaken. I take exception to being ridiculed by a teacher of God's Word, that is all.

I'm unfamiliar with the biblical gift or office of "watchman" in the Christian church. You seem to suggest that such office or gift gives you both the ability and the authority to interpret biblical prophecy. Please cite the authority by which you claim such office.

  I think you had better choose choice four. See, this is what I mean. You have to guess. You don't even know. You should know when you are hearing the truth. You just can't ,and then since you aren't sure you pick 3. It should be obvious. If it isn't obvious to you, then I feel real sorry for those following you. This is why this is my only endeavor. I find Reverends such as yourself everywhere. I rarely bother talking to them. I let them go on there happy way, but you had to make a comment. You probably have alot of friends here and they respect your words, and what you do is take my words straight away from them. That is my grievance with you.  Michae1

  Hosea 9:8 -  I am the watchman of Ephraim. It is me. I have the ability to interpret these things. This is why it is written. You and all your thinkers have made a mess of everything. This is your proof that what I am saying is from God. He gives his approval of me in those scriptures. Saying that I am with God in these prophecies. I rarely give this answer to anyone, but just so you know,  when I started my prophecy writing around 1995, my handle was Ephraim, The Watchman of Ephraim, Ephraim65, Michael777, Michael, and Michae1. You can find this same prophecy with those signatures. This should already be understood by my words. I should never have to tell anybody these things, but it doesn't surprise me...Michae1

Look, Michae1, do you have a date in mind here, or are you just wasting our time?  I mean, most of the doomsday people at least come with a date in hand.  If you want to be taken seriously as an end times nutcase, you need a date.  Without a solid date, how do we know when to stop laughing, and start pointing and laughing?

Never put yourself down, m'dear; you are a human being, something unique and quite wonderful.  There are people here who are more than willing to engage with you, but you have to be willing to get over your own under self-confidence and be willing to engage as well.

 

It's a 2-way street -- if I wanted to listen to 1-way information exchange, I'd turn on the TV or listen to birdsong.

 

Stretch yourself a little.  You might like it :3

 

I mean, what you have written here is that you know what any of us are thinking of and believing in and what effects the Rev's words are going to have on us.  Are you that telepathic?  I don't think so.

 

So please, have the courage the self-honesty to stop projecting your own fears and anxieties (that of G_d's truth not being transmitted well, etc etc) onto other people.

 

Real communication requires skill and risks -- the risk of being vulnerable, of exposing yourself to others.  Only then does real communcation happen -- the Truth doesn't just happen all by itself.

  I'm sorry, but you are wrong. I have been run out of forums by useless posts. I have been eliminated from forums because I didn't agree with the moderators, or their friends. The ones that are the worst are the Christian forums. I generally do pretty well in the small forums. It is the Reverends who are generally the forum police. What you have said has some validity, only if it applies here. Somewhere else, a different story. Michae1

Hi Michae1,

 

 

I am assuming that you have claimed the office of prophet and I could very well be wrong about that.  I happen to think I've got it right and you are claiming the office of prophet.

 

In your opening post your wrote:

 

I'm sure that you can explain that more clearly if I am wrong.  At present it looks to be very clear that you have written this last prophecy and if you have then you are claiming the office of Prophet.

 

You then go on to begin to briefly interpret apocalyptic literature and you seem to be very confident that you have gotten the interpretation correct.  Which would be a prophetic ability.

 

 

Selecting a narrow definition of the term Prophet does not mean that you not claimed prophetic ability.  As soon as you claim prophetic ability you assume the office of prophet.  A Prophet is an intermediary between God and humanity, they bring a message and it is not required that they write it down, although you writing a letter and calling it the last letter of prophecy seems to be quite the slam dunk for my point.

 

 

Ezekiel, also a prophet, was sent as a Watchman to the house of Israel.  He was God's intermediary with Israel and you, by addressing this last letter of prophecy to all Christians are in fact assuming the role of Watchman.  That does not automatically negate that you are also claiming the office of prophet.

 

 

 

So you claim.  That claim is, as I write above, not at all convincing.

 

 

 

 

Why is that?  Have you done nothing ridiculous?  You claim not to be a prophet but a watchman when the watchman has always been used, in the context of scripture, to denote the office of prophet.  You are in a very real sense stating, "I never claimed to be a prophet I am a prophet."  Which is a ridiculous statement, meaning object of ridicule.

 

That you failed to comprehend what the Reverend Steven Davis was saying to the poster Chansen, and not to you yourself, does not fill me with confidence that your interpretation of the Book of Revelation is anywhere near to being on target.

 

How you behave is up to you.  You do not get to determine how words may or may not be used.  If you want to attempt to distinguish between a Watchman and a Prophet have at it.  The use in scripture is interchangeable.  Prophets are Watchmen.  They shout warnings from walls to those who have not been given their gift of sight.

 

Your interpretation of the Revelation passages are, quite frankly not entirely unique.  They appear to be reworkings of Hal Lindsey or Tim LaHaye and Jerry Jenkins.  So the message you give is not one the rest of us would see.  That is either because you have a prophetic gift or you are false. 

 

Once again, I'm confident that you are wrong.  If I am mistaken I will gladly apologize.

 

Grace and peace to you.

John

That's just it. This is a one-way conversation. There is no give and take. I'm telling you the answer and that is all. You don't have to accept it of course, that is your prerogative. On the other hand, I'm not compromising anything. Michae1

Michael, this is a United Church forum. In the UCC Reverends get run out of churches far more often than I've ever run anyone out of a forum. In fact I probably upset more people around here by trying to keep in the forum those that others want out, as a recent situation will attest to!

 

You cite Hosea. I asked for a citation of such office or gift being present in a "Christian" church. Hosea was pre-Christian. If such gift or office were to be applicable to the Christian church one would think Paul would have mentioned it somewhere in his various lists of offices or gifts that should be present in the churches he founded and/or taught at. He doesn't. In fact no New Testament author suggestes the existence of such gift or office. 

 

chansen also raises a valid question. When do you propose this will happen? If you're saying "I don't know when but someday this is going to happen" then you're completely unaccountable for your words, because if it hasn't happened in 10 years you can just say "I never said when. It's just going to happen."

 

It's also worth noting that most biblical prophecy is a social critique - an analysis (and usually a condemnation) of the prevailing culture. For the most part, it was not about predicting the future, except insofar as the prophets understood the rule of cause and effect. In other words, they didn't look into the distant future. They looked at their own society and said to the people, "if you keep doing (a) then (b) will happen." Many interpret the Book of Revelation in the same way - that it was addressing the social situation/context of early Christians in the Roman Empire and of the Empire as a whole, and pointing out that certain things will happen as a result of the rule of cause and effect. It wouldn't, for example, have taken a genius (even in the early 2nd century) to have predicted the persecution of Christians in the Empire, and the fall of the Empire, and the chaos that would result because of the Empire's fall, etc., etc. That's not so much predicting the future as it is offering a reasonable estimation of what's going to be the result of the situation existing in the author's own day. The over-arching message of the Book of Revelation for today's readers is that Christ stands over and above history ("I am the Alpha and the Omega") and is ultimately victorious over all that opposes the gospel and the grace of God.

 

Obviously, I've gotten under your skin with an initial post that was - as I explained - a kind of humourous remark directed at chansen. That's OK. Part of a minister's job, I suppose, is to get under the skin and challenge. Whether I change your mind or not is immaterial. The point is for us to challenge one another to a deeper understanding of what our faith means to us.

 

Clearly, you're insulted by your interpretation of something I said. For that, I apologize if that's of any use. It was not my intention to insult or ridicule you. So you don't need to wait for the end of time. There's the apology you seek.

 

Blessings to you.

 

   Answering the other rev.  I am not writing new revelation. I am interpreting old revelation. What else would you call a letter that was interpreting prophecy? I could have called it the watchman letter i guess, but it is prophecy I am interpreting. Not given by me, but interpreted by me. You can twist my words all you like.  Thanks for the chat. Michae1

Michael, what you say contradicts the interpretations of every scholarly Bible commentary I know.  Do you know the original languages (Greek and Hebrew)?  If not, how ar you competent to contradcict interpreters who know these languages and the the cultural background of the propehtic language?   You cite the meaniing of the Hwebrew "rab" and link that with "Rabin," but do you even know what "Rabin" means in Hebrew?  Do you care?  Do you want a dicussion of what the texts you quote mean?  You are familiar with the Secrets of the vsionaries at Medjurgorje, yes?  Their prophecies allegedly from the Virgin Mary have fiixed dates which the visionaries will reveal 3 days in advance of the apocalyptic fulfillment of each,so that the world knows they come from God.  The bisionaries have many miracles to reinforice  their credibility.  I know lawyers and professors who went there skeptical and returned believers due to the miracles they witnessed.  As for me, I'll just wait till the first date arrives to see if their priophecies are fulfilled.  By why should we trust your prophecies any more than theirs?   Again, I ask you, "How did you hope your readers here  would respond to your prophecies? 

I do not have a choice in the matter. Also, I do not care. It is not up to me to decide anything for anyone. You can't beg for someones thoughts. I give the information and let reason decide.

and that is the whole point, other Holy Spirit filled believers, interpret differently and are very humble in this office with the recognition that they need major accountability in this area.

so who are you accountable too in the natural realm?

   Words can be viewed in different ways. I just looked at them the wrong way. Sorry also.