I'd say, in a non-dualistic universe—as ours appears to be—the potter is the same as the pot. The potter-pot separation, or duality, is an illusion. This means that we are as pliable as we want to be, and that we are the shaper as well as the shaped, the potter as well as the pot. Or, in other words, the substance of the universe—energy—is self-creative: the power that transforms the substance is in the substance, and is the substance.
ninjafaery
Posted on: 02/20/2013 15:10
One of the metaphors used to illustrate the nature of reality in Buddhism is that of a clay pot in the ocean. What we call the "self" is that clay pot, which represents form, but the ocean represents Reality.
We both contain IT and are IT.
not4prophet
Posted on: 02/20/2013 15:22
Or... as the story unfolds in Genesis. Adam was the first to have life breathed into him. Yet Eve was a clone of life already existing and so it is with all who followed by way of conception and growth. Life is not an individual but a continuous stream that bodies, in whatever form from tadpole to dried out husk, feed upon, unless they are too broken or to old to further function on that fuel called life. Regardless of what stage we are in we are a part of that life until the connection is broken.
revjohn
Posted on: 02/20/2013 16:56
Hi crazyheart,
crazyheart wrote:
If God is the potter, how pliable should we be? Exactly, what does this mean. Any ideas?
The pliability of the clay has nothing to do with the will fo the clay but everything to do with the will and wisdom of the potter.
What does that mean? It means all we offer is resistance and the potter overcomes that until we are in a place where our desire not to be moved serves a useful function.
Grace and peace to you.
John
Neo
Posted on: 02/20/2013 22:17
crazyheart wrote:
If God is the potter, how pliable should we be? Exactly, what does this mean. Any ideas?
"Thy will Father, not mine"
- Jesus, the son of man.
RAN
Posted on: 02/20/2013 22:38
Neo, that seems a very apt verse to quote. I think the rest of Jesus's prayer is worth quoting: "he threw himself on the ground and prayed, ‘My Father, if it is possible, let this cup pass from me; yet not what I want but what you want.’" (NRSV, Matt 26:39).
Dcn. Jae
Posted on: 02/21/2013 07:30
Christians are to be as ready to follow God's will over their own as Christ made himself to be as-- even up to the point of death. I believe that when we become Christians God starts a great sanctifying work of molding us to be more like Christ.
peace in Christ.
Arminius
Posted on: 02/21/2013 12:30
I AND THE FATHER ARE ONE
Nailed on the cross was the Allmighty's son,
And cried: "Let not my will but thine be done!"
But why, if father and the son are one?
This paradox would solve if we but knew,
The two aren't only one, but also two,
And what one wants the other may not do.
If the self-will takes care of egocentric needs of the individual, and God's will takes care of the needs of the greater whole, and the two are in conflict, then a balance needs to be struck between the two. In nature, the balance between the welfare of the individual and the welfare of the whole is always maintained, but in us humans the self-will of the individual often overrides the will of the whole. Then it is necessary for the individual to subordinate his egocentric wants to the needs of the whole.
Ultimately, of course, the individual is one with the whole. We ignore this at our peril! To favour the individual at the expense of the whole is a suicidal course for humanity, spiritually and biologically.
ninjafaery
Posted on: 02/23/2013 16:36
Found this quote:
"By means of just one lump of clay, everything made of clay can be known: Any modifications are merely verbal distinctions, names; the reality is just clay." (Chandogya, Upanishads 6.1.4)
Neo
Posted on: 02/23/2013 17:41
Arminius wrote:
I AND THE FATHER ARE ONE
Nailed on the cross was the Allmighty's son,
And cried: "Let not my will but thine be done!"
But why, if father and the son are one?
This paradox would solve if we but knew,
The two aren't only one, but also two,
And what one wants the other may not do.
If the self-will takes care of egocentric needs of the individual, and God's will takes care of the needs of the greater whole, and the two are in conflict, then a balance needs to be struck between the two. In nature, the balance between the welfare of the individual and the welfare of the whole is always maintained, but in us humans the self-will of the individual often overrides the will of the whole. Then it is necessary for the individual to subordinate his egocentric wants to the needs of the whole.
Ultimately, of course, the individual is one with the whole. We ignore this at our peril! To favour the individual at the expense of the whole is a suicidal course for humanity, spiritually and biologically
Can there ever be unity in the presence of division? I believe the answer to this apparent paradox is always "yes". But only if you raise your awareness to the greater whole. It can't be fully understood by the part; the part needs a step of faith to move forward.
WaterBuoy
Posted on: 02/23/2013 18:42
Unconscious awareness ... in finite condensation ...
John Wilson
Posted on: 02/23/2013 19:20
MC jae wrote:
Christians are to be as ready to follow God's will over their own as Christ made himself to be as-- even up to the point of death. I believe that when we become Christians God starts a great sanctifying work of molding us to be more like Christ. peace in Christ.
A post that provokes thought.
Thelema. Will.
Know what your will is and pelieve you know what God's will is and change your will...
lotta chances for error there...
More like Jesus: A wino that wanted to be remembered as such as you drink wine...
( A thimble of grape juice)
An undesirable death for an apocalyptic prophet
I die for your sins
or
I taught for your betterment
...
'They knew not what they did'
At the end, a lesson in the vast abundance of ignorance.
I got my share....
Arminius
Posted on: 02/23/2013 20:08
Neo wrote:
Arminius wrote:
I AND THE FATHER ARE ONE
Nailed on the cross was the Allmighty's son,
And cried: "Let not my will but thine be done!"
But why, if father and the son are one?
This paradox would solve if we but knew,
The two aren't only one, but also two,
And what one wants the other may not do.
If the self-will takes care of egocentric needs of the individual, and God's will takes care of the needs of the greater whole, and the two are in conflict, then a balance needs to be struck between the two. In nature, the balance between the welfare of the individual and the welfare of the whole is always maintained, but in us humans the self-will of the individual often overrides the will of the whole. Then it is necessary for the individual to subordinate his egocentric wants to the needs of the whole.
Ultimately, of course, the individual is one with the whole. We ignore this at our peril! To favour the individual at the expense of the whole is a suicidal course for humanity, spiritually and biologically
Can there ever be unity in the presence of division? I believe the answer to this apparent paradox is always "yes". But only if you raise your awareness to the greater whole. It can't be fully understood by the part; the part needs a step of faith to move forward.
Yes, Neo, the part can be uniquely and individually active and creative, but in the full awareness of being an inseparable part of the greater whole.
When this awareness is lacking, and the part acts on its egocentric behalf, then there is trouble.
WaterBuoy
Posted on: 02/24/2013 08:24
Sort of like serving sour whine to the eternal "i" and abstract conception to overly emotional types ...
Gave Christ ans aspect of people that knew not what they did ... no doo-do ...! The Shadow of Bull prevails ...gotta be another side to soul ... the learned portion ...
Comments
Arminius
Posted on: 02/20/2013 14:54
Of all that talk of potter and the pot,
Who is the potter, pray, and who the pot?
-Omar Kyayym
Well, God is the potter, you say.
I'd say, in a non-dualistic universe—as ours appears to be—the potter is the same as the pot. The potter-pot separation, or duality, is an illusion. This means that we are as pliable as we want to be, and that we are the shaper as well as the shaped, the potter as well as the pot. Or, in other words, the substance of the universe—energy—is self-creative: the power that transforms the substance is in the substance, and is the substance.
ninjafaery
Posted on: 02/20/2013 15:10
One of the metaphors used to illustrate the nature of reality in Buddhism is that of a clay pot in the ocean. What we call the "self" is that clay pot, which represents form, but the ocean represents Reality.
We both contain IT and are IT.
not4prophet
Posted on: 02/20/2013 15:22
Or... as the story unfolds in Genesis. Adam was the first to have life breathed into him. Yet Eve was a clone of life already existing and so it is with all who followed by way of conception and growth. Life is not an individual but a continuous stream that bodies, in whatever form from tadpole to dried out husk, feed upon, unless they are too broken or to old to further function on that fuel called life. Regardless of what stage we are in we are a part of that life until the connection is broken.
revjohn
Posted on: 02/20/2013 16:56
Hi crazyheart,
If God is the potter, how pliable should we be? Exactly, what does this mean. Any ideas?
The pliability of the clay has nothing to do with the will fo the clay but everything to do with the will and wisdom of the potter.
What does that mean? It means all we offer is resistance and the potter overcomes that until we are in a place where our desire not to be moved serves a useful function.
Grace and peace to you.
John
Neo
Posted on: 02/20/2013 22:17
If God is the potter, how pliable should we be? Exactly, what does this mean. Any ideas?
"Thy will Father, not mine"
- Jesus, the son of man.
RAN
Posted on: 02/20/2013 22:38
Neo, that seems a very apt verse to quote. I think the rest of Jesus's prayer is worth quoting: "he threw himself on the ground and prayed, ‘My Father, if it is possible, let this cup pass from me; yet not what I want but what you want.’" (NRSV, Matt 26:39).
Dcn. Jae
Posted on: 02/21/2013 07:30
Christians are to be as ready to follow God's will over their own as Christ made himself to be as-- even up to the point of death. I believe that when we become Christians God starts a great sanctifying work of molding us to be more like Christ.
peace in Christ.
Arminius
Posted on: 02/21/2013 12:30
I AND THE FATHER ARE ONE
Nailed on the cross was the Allmighty's son,
And cried: "Let not my will but thine be done!"
But why, if father and the son are one?
This paradox would solve if we but knew,
The two aren't only one, but also two,
And what one wants the other may not do.
If the self-will takes care of egocentric needs of the individual, and God's will takes care of the needs of the greater whole, and the two are in conflict, then a balance needs to be struck between the two. In nature, the balance between the welfare of the individual and the welfare of the whole is always maintained, but in us humans the self-will of the individual often overrides the will of the whole. Then it is necessary for the individual to subordinate his egocentric wants to the needs of the whole.
Ultimately, of course, the individual is one with the whole. We ignore this at our peril! To favour the individual at the expense of the whole is a suicidal course for humanity, spiritually and biologically.
ninjafaery
Posted on: 02/23/2013 16:36
Found this quote:
"By means of just one lump of clay, everything made of clay can be known: Any modifications are merely verbal distinctions, names; the reality is just clay." (Chandogya, Upanishads 6.1.4)
Neo
Posted on: 02/23/2013 17:41
I AND THE FATHER ARE ONE
Nailed on the cross was the Allmighty's son,
And cried: "Let not my will but thine be done!"
But why, if father and the son are one?
This paradox would solve if we but knew,
The two aren't only one, but also two,
And what one wants the other may not do.
If the self-will takes care of egocentric needs of the individual, and God's will takes care of the needs of the greater whole, and the two are in conflict, then a balance needs to be struck between the two. In nature, the balance between the welfare of the individual and the welfare of the whole is always maintained, but in us humans the self-will of the individual often overrides the will of the whole. Then it is necessary for the individual to subordinate his egocentric wants to the needs of the whole.
Ultimately, of course, the individual is one with the whole. We ignore this at our peril! To favour the individual at the expense of the whole is a suicidal course for humanity, spiritually and biologically
Can there ever be unity in the presence of division? I believe the answer to this apparent paradox is always "yes". But only if you raise your awareness to the greater whole. It can't be fully understood by the part; the part needs a step of faith to move forward.
WaterBuoy
Posted on: 02/23/2013 18:42
Unconscious awareness ... in finite condensation ...
John Wilson
Posted on: 02/23/2013 19:20
A post that provokes thought.
Thelema. Will.
Know what your will is and pelieve you know what God's will is and change your will...
lotta chances for error there...
More like Jesus: A wino that wanted to be remembered as such as you drink wine...
( A thimble of grape juice)
An undesirable death for an apocalyptic prophet
I die for your sins
or
I taught for your betterment
...
'They knew not what they did'
At the end, a lesson in the vast abundance of ignorance.
I got my share....
Arminius
Posted on: 02/23/2013 20:08
I AND THE FATHER ARE ONE
Nailed on the cross was the Allmighty's son,
And cried: "Let not my will but thine be done!"
But why, if father and the son are one?
This paradox would solve if we but knew,
The two aren't only one, but also two,
And what one wants the other may not do.
If the self-will takes care of egocentric needs of the individual, and God's will takes care of the needs of the greater whole, and the two are in conflict, then a balance needs to be struck between the two. In nature, the balance between the welfare of the individual and the welfare of the whole is always maintained, but in us humans the self-will of the individual often overrides the will of the whole. Then it is necessary for the individual to subordinate his egocentric wants to the needs of the whole.
Ultimately, of course, the individual is one with the whole. We ignore this at our peril! To favour the individual at the expense of the whole is a suicidal course for humanity, spiritually and biologically
Can there ever be unity in the presence of division? I believe the answer to this apparent paradox is always "yes". But only if you raise your awareness to the greater whole. It can't be fully understood by the part; the part needs a step of faith to move forward.
Yes, Neo, the part can be uniquely and individually active and creative, but in the full awareness of being an inseparable part of the greater whole.
When this awareness is lacking, and the part acts on its egocentric behalf, then there is trouble.
WaterBuoy
Posted on: 02/24/2013 08:24
Sort of like serving sour whine to the eternal "i" and abstract conception to overly emotional types ...
Gave Christ ans aspect of people that knew not what they did ... no doo-do ...! The Shadow of Bull prevails ...gotta be another side to soul ... the learned portion ...