I should be more clear. I know that God is not a genie. So I can't pray to win the lottery. But what about selfless prayers like for a sick parent or for the orphans starving on the other side of the world. Basically, ppl say "I will pray for u" and it sounds nice but really what is the point of prayer?

I think that when I say "I will pray for you', I show solidarity with the person, that we are both and all part of something more - and that the sum is greater than the parts.  I want her to know that she is not alone with her problem.   I remind myself, and her, that we are surrounded by love and that in love there is healing - of the spirit if not of the body.  In praying for someone I am lending my support, I am saying that I share their burden, that I walk with them.  That is prayer.

And when I pray for myself, I am reminding myself that I too am surrounded by a love that will not let me go - regardless of the difficult path I may be treading at the time. 

I have found the prayers for myself and my daughter very helpful this past six months.

Prayer can help the person who is doing the praying as well as the person who is being prayed for. Not because an omnipotent God hears one's petition and intervenes, but because positive thinking begets positive results.

I believe that GOD is both Lord and Master of the Universe so HE has the power to answer prayers and I also believe that HE is out loving Father so HE has a loving desire to do so, when it's a part of HIS perfect plan. Obviously sometimes the answer is best "no" for reasons we never understand. In a way it's like we're little kids and we take our prayers to the strongest and most loving person we know.

Greetings!

I believe prayer makes a difference . . . the biggest difference is the difference it makes within me.

I believe God hears our cries, sees our tears, and knows our hearts of thanksgiving and praise, and admist all loves us more than we can imagine.  I believe when we speak words in prayer God hears those words.  And once again, admist our words loves us more than we can imagine.

I believe God answers our prayers when we ask for God's help, strength, peace, hope, sustenance, presence, and nurturing.  I believe God answers our prayers when we ask for wisdom.  I believe God answers our prayers when we ask for God to change us from within from those things we do not like about ourselves.

My understanding in Arminius' post is that he shares his thoughts of a God who does not intervene as an answer to our prayers.  My understanding of Jon's post is that he shares his thoughts of a God who loves us and answers our prayers with yeses and nos and probably in-betweens, in other words, a God that does interevene in answer to our prayers.

And to be honest, there are times when I flip flop back forth, not necessarily in belief, but in hope.  Sometimes I need to believe as Arminius - for me it is hard to believe and understand a God who would choose to intervene in some circumstances miraculously and not in others - as to why one plane would crash and one wouldn't where in both situations loved ones are praying for safe travel for each.  And sometimes I desire to believe as Jon - when there is something going on that I so badly wish God would do SOMETHING . . . sicked loved one, places like Haiti, something happening in my children's lives that I wish wasn't happening . . . when I want things to be different.

I can't control or fully understand God and how God receives prayer and what God does with prayer and how God responds to prayer.  But I do believe God does something within me when I pray.  So, I just pray . . . and allow myself to be changed, even if nothing else is changed, and let God do elsewhere whatever it is that God does elsewhere.  My prayers have changed from "do" lists to "help" lists in that they generally do not contain requests for specific things to happen, but rather than God will sustain and help whomever it is I am praying for.  But there are still times, one most recently, where I find a specific situation so overwhelming that I resort to begging and pleading for God to intervene.  I don't know in this specific situation if God did or will, but in my need I pulled out all the stops . . . I don't know if it moved God, or if God will move because of it . . . but I felt better after my sobs, tears, and pleas.  And after all was said and done I felt at peace . . . perhaps that was and is God's only answer in the prayers I prayed in this particular situation.

Hope, peace, joy, love . . .

I thought that was He-Man?  Or are they the same guy?  What's do you call a "Trinity" of four?

OK, let's run with this, and skip right to one of its most glaring problems:  Part of this "perfect plan" then, is the suffering and death of children, despite pleading prayers of believing parents.  Obviously, "He" is more about his plan than 'He" is about love, and "His" plan sucks.  It's almost as if bad things happen to people at random, which is what would happen if there was no god in the first place.  Oh, wait....

Closer to the truth, we take our prayers to the most powerful imaginary friend we can think of. 

  Question is-- can anyone pray for themselves or others and get answered prayer without having certain protocol in place ----that is if I have faith and I want to pray for my friend who doesn't have faith in an unseen God will I get my prayer answered  when I pray for that person ----After all when we pray for something we want to get results other wise what is the point of us praying.   Same goes for ourselves . Do we know how to pray to get answered prayer ?

Blessings  

You don't always get the results you want, the results you do get are suspiciously similar to the one you likely would have gotten without prayer, and there is no point to prayer, if what you were hoping for was some divine intervention.

Chansen, "OK, let's run with this, and skip right to one of its most glaring problems:  Part of this "perfect plan" then, is the suffering and death of children, despite pleading prayers of believing parents.  Obviously, "He" is more about his plan than 'He" is about love, and "His" plan sucks.  It's almost as if bad things happen to people at random, which is what would happen if there was no god in the first place.  Oh, wait...."

Okay, lets run with this, let's imagine a man that refuses to listen. God is NOT a man that floats around in the sky with a "list" to deliver "gifts"  to all the good little girls and boys. That would be Santa Claus.

God is a force that is unable to be controlled by man. Time does not exist for this power. If you die when you're six or sixty, in the scheme of things it is a moment. All deaths leave behind those who grieve and who are we to say who suffers more? A child or an adult when they die. Of course a child dying is particularly traumatic for us to observe and understand.  Those of faith recognize there is a purpose for everything and are all too willing to admit that we don't always get it. We live within the laws of the earth but are exposed to the laws of the universe.

Chansen, "Closer to the truth, we take our prayers to the most powerful imaginary friend we can think of. "

I will take my love, my grief, my anything and expose it throught prayer. It's healing to speak of these things.

Am I speaking to an imaginery friend as you say? That is a very simplistic approach Chansen and I'm surprised at your refusal to stop using these terms even though you have been educated by this forum that the anthropormorphic aspect of God that is often used is only a comfort measure to bring the awesomeness of God closer to our understanding.

The interventionist God, who can be petitioned by prayer to change the course of events in our favour, is a supreme insult to six million Jews who, I am sure, prayed their hearts out to be delivered from the horrors of the concentration camps.

Was it God's perfect plan to let them die a horrible death?

Prayer is communication with God, one on one on a deep spiritual level. Prayer does not need to be validated by anybody as it is part of an even deeper spiritual relationship between Yahweh and the person in prayer.  Prayer is not about "gettin' stuff". 

Yes, Tyson, well said: Prayer is communicating with God.

Tyson 

   I agree that prayer is a way of communicating with God and it does bring us closer in our relationship with God . I disagree with your quote  Prayer is not about "gettin' stuff

Mark 11  ²² “Have faith in God,” Jesus answered. ²³ “Truly^[f] I tell you, if anyone says to this mountain, ‘Go, throw yourself into the sea,’ and does not doubt in their heart but believes that what they say will happen, it will be done for them. ²⁴ Therefore I tell you, whatever you ask for in prayer, believe that you have received it, and it will be yours. ²⁵ And when you stand praying, if you hold anything against anyone, forgive them, so that your Father in heaven may forgive you your sins.” ^{[26] [g]}

John 15 v  ⁷ If you remain in me and my words remain in you, ask whatever you wish, and it will be done for you

As you can see scripture says you can ask and you will receive what you ask for as long as you follow the rules but if we don't read The Bible then we don't know what the rules for answered prayer are.  Fear and doubt based prayers will not be answered. There is a protocol to answered prayers ----Finding the scripture that pertains to your wants and needs is vital to use when praying any prayer as the above scripture ---john 15 indicates. 

James 1  ⁵If any of you lack wisdom, let him ask of God, that giveth to all men liberally, and upbraideth not; and it shall be given him.

 ⁶But let him ask in faith, nothing wavering. For he that wavereth is like a wave of the sea driven with the wind and tossed.

 ⁷For let not that man think that he shall receive any thing of the Lord.

Blessings

I use to dial G_O_D on my phone to communicate, but with all the hi tech phones science has come out with, the letters are missing

Hi unsafe. Perhaps the difference is in how we interpret those versus.  For me, the things asked for in prayer are not physical things but spiritual things. For me, spiritual matters are more important than physical matters. Besides, Jesus told us not to be anxious for anything because if God takes care of the sparrows, He certainly will take care of His children. 

I believe that God always answers our prayers. It's just that sometimes, we don't like the answer.

Well, bb, put down the phone and pray. The etheric line to God is always open.

 Hi Tyson --your quote   Perhaps the difference is in how we interpret those versus.  For me, the things asked for in prayer are not physical things but spiritual things. For me, spiritual matters are more important than physical matters.

I also ask in prayer for guidance--strength---knowledge and wisdom are these the spiritual things you speak of .

For instance if I own a business and want it to be successful I would pray for knowledge and wisdom to help me make the right decision for the success of my business .  I would  find the scripture that suits what I am praying for --wisdom --which I can come to God with as it is in His word which is His will for me to have wisdom according to     James 1  ⁵ If any of you lacks wisdom, let him ask of God, who gives to all liberally and without reproach, and it will be given to him. 

 Psalm 32:8 >>
New American Standard Bible
I will instruct you and teach you in the way which you should go; I will counsel you with My eye upon you.

As long as I am in right standing with God which is to be Born Again of The Spirit --have Faith --Obey His Laws I will get an answer to my prayer. 

If I pray this prayer for wisdom and I don't have faith ---I doubt that God would answer prayers ----I don't obey His Laws then the scripture plainly says   ⁷ For let not that man suppose that he will receive anything from the Lord; ⁸ he is a double-minded man, unstable in all his ways.   

Your Quote :Besides, Jesus told us not to be anxious for anything because if God takes care of the sparrows, He certainly will take care of His children. 

Again you are so right He did

Philippians 4:6-7
"Do not be anxious about anything, but in everything, by prayer and petition, with thanksgiving, present your requests to God. And the peace of God, which transcends all understanding, will guard your hearts and your minds in Christ Jesus."

Matthew 6     ³¹"So do not worry, saying, `What shall we eat?' or `What shall we drink?' or `What shall we wear?' ³²For the pagans run after all these things, and your heavenly Father knows that you need them.

³³But seek first His kingdom and His righteousness, and all these things will be given to you as well. 

Again we see protocol in verse 33 ---Seek first God and His Kingdom and be in right standing with God and  you will be looked after. 

Philippians 4:19 (New International Version)

What are our needs to live on this earth ---Air --Food --Water --Shelter--Cloths --AND Money --  As long as we seek God and His Kingdom FIRST  ---He will meet our needs.

Blessings    

 I have great Faith in my God supplying all of my needs---Thanks be to God

Okay. One can do positive affirmations then and achieve the same result

I struggle with this. If God is such a loving person then why does he allow chhild molesters and murderers to carry out their evil desires

  HI Serena  YOUR QUOTE  I struggle with this. If God is such a loving person then why does he allow chhild molesters and murderers to carry out their evil desires 

Can I ask what makes you think God is responsible for allowing this.

Blessings:

At the risk of putting words in Serena's mouth, I think she's raising a theodicy argument. If God is all-knowing, he must know the killer/molester is a killer/molester and what they will do. If God is good, then he must know what they are going to do is in violation of His law and will harm an innocent. If God is all-powerful, then he can intervene to stop them. Why doesn't He do so?

Supernatural theism always seems to fudge the answer by saying things like "God has His purpose for all things that we may not know or understand" and other such statements that don't so much directly answer the question as evade it.

Mendalla

Yes, exactly my point. 

Hi Mendalla

I didn't know you were Serena's Soul -----I am sure Serena has her own thoughts on this as well and the question was for her .

But I can respond to your answer  This is how Satan wins souls

LaVey decided the world was ready now for the first public Satanic baptism. People would be forced to see that Satanism is not drinking the blood of babies and sacrificing small animals. He declared, “Rather than cleanse the child of original sin, as in the Christian baptism imposing unwarranted guilt, we will glorify her natural instincts and intensify her lust for life.” Who better to be baptized in such a public ceremony than LaVey’s own three-year-old daughter, Zeena? With her soft blonde hair and engaging smile, she captivated reporters—such an angelic child to be dedicated to the Devil. While many Christian organizations and other “concerned citizens” were outraged at the spectacle, there was little they could do. Today, LaVey probably would have been charged with Satanic child abuse—there were no such legal avenues for religious hysterics in 1967.

A date for Zeena’s baptism was set for May. Photographers started showing up at 6 a.m., even though the ceremony wouldn’t begin for another 15 hours. One of the Church members, survivalist Kurt Saxon, designed and made a special amulet for Zeena just for the occasion. It was a colorful Baphomet with an ice cream cone, lollypop, and other things a little girl would like included in the circle. Her mother dressed her in a bright-red hooded robe and sat her on the edge of the altar while photographers from New York to Rome snapped away.

LaVey recited an impressive invocation, later adapted for inclusion in The Satanic Rituals:

“In the name of Satan, Lucifer...Welcome a new mistress, Zeena, creature of ecstatic magic light...Welcome to our company; the path of darkness welcomes thee. Be not afraid. Above you Satan heaves his bulk into the startled sky and makes a canopy of great black wings...Small sorceress, most natural and true magician, your tiny hands have power to pull Heaven down and from it build monuments to your own sweet indulgence. Your power makes you master of the world of frightened, cowering and guilt-ridden men. And so, in the name of Satan, we set your feet upon the left-hand path...Zeena we baptize you with earth and air, with brine and burning flame. And so we dedicate your life to love, to passion, to indulgence, and to Satan, and the way of darkness. Hail Zeena! Hail Satan!”

The entire ceremony was designed to delight the child, welcoming her with sights and smells that were pleasurable to her. Unlike the Christian method of dunking already frightened children in water to baptize them, Zeena sat cheerfully chewing gum throughout the ritual, basking in the attention she was receiving from admirers and the press.

The Bible ---John 3 v 3 ³ Jesus replied, “Very truly I tell you, no one can see the kingdom of God unless they are born again.

Ephesian 6 - 12For our struggle is not against flesh and blood, but against the rulers, against the authorities, against the powers of this dark world and against the spiritual forces of evil in the heavenly realms.

God Mendalla will answer prayers of the righteous ---He doesn't perform magic .We humans were given complete control of this earth He cannot get involved in our affairs unless we ask --through prayer so Mendalla you should pray to God for Him to intervene in child molestation -----the fight Mendalla is over souls and who will win ---if we don't get God involved ---Satan has free reign to gain a soul and do his work. We humans have free will to choose where we want to be .  That's why God says put your armour on to fight the devil especially your helmet as that is where the fight is ----your mind.

Change your thinking --Change your life. Blessings 

Because we have the free will to do good in life or to do evil. Free will doesn't account for all the pain in the world, but it does cover an awful lot of it. The rest is just something that we don't understand during life but will in Heaven.

jon71 

Great posting

I think I'll stick to supporting stronger legislation against abusers, encouraging reporting and enforcement, and generally working to make a safer world socially and politically. I suspect that will accomplish more than praying to a God I'm not even sure exists (I'm an agnostic in case you haven't noticed).

Mendalla

[quote=Beloved]

I believe prayer makes a difference . . . the biggest difference is the difference it makes within me.

I believe God answers our prayers when we ask for God's help, strength, peace, hope, sustenance, presence, and nurturing.  I believe God answers our prayers when we ask for wisdom.  I believe God answers our prayers when we ask for God to change us from within from those things we do not like about ourselves.

And to be honest, there are times when I flip flop back forth, not necessarily in belief, but in hope.  Sometimes I need to believe as Arminius - for me it is hard to believe and understand a God who would choose to intervene in some circumstances miraculously and not in others - as to why one plane would crash and one wouldn't where in both situations loved ones are praying for safe travel for each.  And sometimes I desire to believe as Jon - when there is something going on that I so badly wish God would do SOMETHING . . . sicked loved one, places like Haiti, something happening in my children's lives that I wish wasn't happening . . . when I want things to be different.

I can't control or fully understand God and how God receives prayer and what God does with prayer and how God responds to prayer.  But I do believe God does something within me when I pray.  So, I just pray . . . and allow myself to be changed, even if nothing else is changed, and let God do elsewhere whatever it is that God does elsewhere.  My prayers have changed from "do" lists to "help" lists in that they generally do not contain requests for specific things to happen, but rather than God will sustain and help whomever it is I am praying for.  But there are still times, one most recently, where I find a specific situation so overwhelming that I resort to begging and pleading for God to intervene.  I don't know in this specific situation if God did or will, but in my need I pulled out all the stops . . . I don't know if it moved God, or if God will move because of it . . . but I felt better after my sobs, tears, and pleas.  And after all was said and done I felt at peace . . . perhaps that was and is God's only answer in the prayers I prayed in this particular situation.

I am reading everyones responses. I still do not have my internet fixed. That is a comedy of errors dating back to mid july when ALL THREE of my computers crashed. On the blackberry I can read and post. Copying and responding is so time consuming. Plus I don't have all the characters needed for quoting. So my answers r limited. Please keep posting. Hopefully my internet will be fixed at home by thursday and then I will respond

For the record, nothing and I  mean NOTHING in what you have described would be counted as abusive in a legal sense.  Theologically?  different arguments.  But nothing here violates Child Welfare legislation.

However, some Christian altar-calls come closer to emotional abuse being based entirely on a theology of fear and intimidation.

While I agree with Gord that satanic baptisms would not generate any legal charges whatsoever, and apologizing in advance for the pun, but what the hell do satanic baptisms have to do with this thread?

Hi GordW

My intent was not to Show Child Abuse ---But How IT Comes About----2 worlds ---Satan's world And God's world Both wanting us humans to pick a side ---God is always pulling on us to come to Him and Satan is doing the same ----We make the choice

Satan rules this world ----Fear and self gratification dominates until we become hungry to accept God into our lives where love dominates .

Apape love could never abuse a child --only --Fear ---jealousy -- strife- and self gratification can ----which absolutely ---GordW does not come from God  . 

Blessings

I leave with this -----

Proverbs 4

Get Wisdom at Any Cost

 ¹ Listen, my sons, to a father’s instruction;
   pay attention and gain understanding.
² I give you sound learning,
   so do not forsake my teaching.
³ For I too was a son to my father,
   still tender, and cherished by my mother.
⁴ Then he taught me, and he said to me, 
   “Take hold of my words with all your heart;
   keep my commands, and you will live.
⁵ Get wisdom, get understanding;
   do not forget my words or turn away from them.
⁶ Do not forsake wisdom, and she will protect you;
   love her, and she will watch over you.
⁷ The beginning of wisdom is this: Get^[a] wisdom.
   Though it cost all you have,^[b] get understanding.
⁸ Cherish her, and she will exalt you;
   embrace her, and she will honor you.
⁹ She will give you a garland to grace your head
   and present you with a glorious crown.”

unsafe,

I was responding directly to a line in your post that referred to it as child abuse.  OF course if you didn't actually write what you posted then maybe that raises another issue for you to consider

Gord, like much of what unsafe posts, this was lifted from a web link:

http://www.churchofsatan.com/Pages/CShistory4DE.html

It may be available elsewhere - it wasn't an exhaustive Google search I performed.

unsafe simply cuts-and-pastes from wherever she feels like, with no great need to share her sources, or defend what she posts.

Hi GordW ---You need to give me the sentence to which you refer as I never mention Child abuse in the post except to tell Mendalla how he can get God involved.. So I am confused about your statement.   

 Mendalla God will answer prayers of the righteous ---He doesn't perform magic .We humans were given complete control of this earth He cannot get involved in our affairs unless we ask --through prayer so Mendalla you should pray to God for Him to intervene in child molestation -----the fight Mendalla is over souls and who will win ---if we don't get God involved --

Blessings

chansen   --Your Quote ;  unsafe simply cuts-and-pastes from wherever she feels like, with no great need to share her sources, or defend what she posts.

I leave you with this    ; LUKE 6 V 22 :   ²²Blessed (happy--^[l]with life-joy and satisfaction in God's favor and salvation, apart from your outward condition--and ^[m]to be envied) are you when people despise (hate) you, and when they exclude and excommunicate you [as disreputable] and revile and denounce you and defame and cast out and spurn your name as evil (wicked) on account of the Son of Man.

Blessings

May I suggest that we get back to the topic of prayer?

We are each in relationship, and we gain support from that relationship.   When I felt the need to reach out to people on the Cafe people responded.  They reasured me that they cared, they surrounded me with love, they strengthened me.  One person who I have met in person and like and respect as much 'in the flesh' as I did from his posts, told me:  "In my own way, I will pray for you."    I felt the same positive vibes from that post and his caring thoughts and prayers as I did from all the others.  Thanks, friends.  Please continue your prayers, your kind and positive thoughts, your energy, your care. 

Prayer does matter.

unsafe, I don't hate you.

Also, when somebody calls you out for posting crap, one option is that they are wrong, and you come out of the experince looking better.  The other option, is that you're posting crap.  It's not automatic that if someone criticizes you, they're wrong.  When it's you they are criticizing, it's probably rare.

Prayer is caring and caring is tangible. Someone called me a while back about some health issues in their house, I asked if I could bring it up at prayer group for prayer and the person was very happy to have that done for the person and the rest of the family. prayer is important.

Hi - Seeler---I  believe  in prayer.I think the bible says you have not because you ask not.I pray for others because I think as a christian we are call to, I also think it makes God smile and I like that.

Has anyone ever Prayed in the Holy Spirit ?, what was your experience Like ?

It is my belief that everything we do in life is with/within/in the presence of the Spirit (although we are more aware of that reality sometimes than we are at others).  Could you explain more what you mean by the question?

must've double clicked

Serena I agree with your thoughts that prayer is not a wish list.

Prayer is a conversation with God.  A time to tell God your worries and concerns and i find that when i tell God and give my problems over to him I feel better.

I think though that we all do the "crying out for help" that you discussed.

DO we/you feel better because GOd has acted or is it that we/you have trusted that GOd is listening and so feel better.

I think getting a routine of daily prayer and including thanks for our gifts and lives, as well as concerns for others helps keep us in teh conversation /relationship routine.

Kind of like calling your mother everyday just to hear her voice and her reassurance and love.  Prayer is like that with God

sure, the bible teaches also that at times we don't know how to pray so the Holy Spirit comes along side and helps us in our intersession praying, its not tongues I'm speaking about

"The Spirit helps us in our weakness," St.Paul says, "for we do not know how to pray as we ought..." (Romans 8, 26).

Brings to mind Groucho Marx:

"Outside of a dog, a book is man's best friend.  Inside of a dog, it's too dark to read."

chansen Your Quote    :unsafe, I don't hate you

I would hope not you don't even know me ------ You don't like what I post because you don't understand it and you never will unless you come to God ;As the scripture is very clear on spiritual blindness.

Deuteronomy 29:3-4

3 The great temptations which thine eyes have seen, the signs, and those great miracles:
4 Yet the LORD hath not given you an heart to perceive, and eyes to see, and ears to hear, unto this day

Isaiah 5:20

20 Woe unto them that call evil good, and good evil; that put darkness for light, and light for darkness; that put bitter for sweet, and sweet for bitter!

1 Corinthians 2:14-15

14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.
15 But he that is spiritual judgeth all things, yet he himself is judged of no man.

You see chansen you think that your way is the way and I think my way is the way ---we think different ---I will never believe what you believe and you will never believe what I believe-- period . All your nasty comments don't bother me one bit ---This post is not about what you think of me or my comments this post is about prayer so lets stick to the questions ----I answered Mandella's remarks and I believe what I wrote. Your well in your right to disagree ----I have not a problem with that ---END OF STORY  

 Many Blessings and have a great Nov 11      

Because God has the ability to stop it

Hi Serena

You are right . God will intervene but only through Prayer .So Serena you must pray to God that He will intervene in Child Molestation and trust that He will deal with it His way not the way we want .

Matthew 18 v 19 -20     

Dont you think that lots of people are already praying for that?  Dont you think the child himself or herself is praying for that?  There is only one way to deal with child molestation and that is stop it.  If I was in the room and that was going on I would grab whatever is handy at the moment (baseball bat frying pan) and put a stop to it.  I couldnt bear to watch it or listen to it.