(aSIDE) BB, Your dog is still a beauty.

LOL thank you :) 

Objection, Blackbelt. 

I have recently retired from a career in the mental health field and I have worked on inpatient units which employed chaplains. They were a valuable part of the team. Having religious faith is not automatically viewed as a sign of mental illness. 

On the other hand, I have seen patients with religious delusions and religious preoccupation. These things do exist. 

I agree with you, I have had the same experance Im so happy Im Canadain but south of our borders , its been deffrent 

Hi Blackbelt, 

Glad to hear that you agree with me :)

I can't speak for what happens in the U.S. of course. 

Exactly. Mental illness, as I understand it, can manifest itself in the form of devout belief or religious delusions. "Jerusalem Syndrome" is a name applied to many different reactions to visiting Jerusalem. Many even believe they are the messiah.

If you want to feel persecuted, I suppose exaggerating the medical community's reaction to delusional patients where the delusions happen to be religious in nature, would be appealing to you. In that case, enjoy your persecution. No one is going to convince you that you're are not persecuted - you enjoy the illusion of persecution too much to let it go.

"Religious Intoxication" was a certifiable mental illness for which one could be institutionalised in the old Soviet Union, and some people were. But Canada is not the old Soviet Union!

As p3 said, some mental disorders can be accompanied by religious preoccupation or delusions, but religious preoccupation in itself is definitely not a mental illness!

All I can add is - I am so glad I live in Canada, not the US.

Actually, it's NOT easy at all, and no health professional I know bases their care decisions or action on whether they LIKE someone.  There are very clear laws about detention and medicating without consent.   In fact we often face situations where love ones plead for detention & treatment, and we cannot do it, because of current laws - which is often a sad and frustrating situation for everyone.   I find your statement offensive & uninformed ... and yes, I'm a mental health professional, in Ontario. 

Hi blackbelt1961,

First things first.  This is the account of one woman and her interactions with one medical team.  To view it as indicative of a general consensus is to react without thinking.

The title of the thread also misleads.  It wasn't her praying that is the actual source of the trouble.  She was first brought to the attention of medical authorities after she became confused and disoriented and called her mother for help.

Why was she confused and disoriented?  Because she was on a self imposed fast.

Well, this is what a woman claims.  It has yet to be determined if this is something the woman can prove.

I'm calling baloney on this.  As the parent of a child with a mental illness my personal experience is that it is more difficult to get enough help than it is to get too much.

This is a baseless defamation of medical professionals who respond to mental health crises.  The kind made by people who clearly have very little understanding themselves when it comes to mental illnesses.

As far as conspiracy theories goes.  This one is laughable.  The truth of the matter is more people suffer from mental illnesses in north america due to inadequate care and services than have been rounded up in some clandestine operation which uses mental health professionals as a cover.

A full article consisting of the woman's side of the story only.  At best it is a half article.

Bi-Polar disorder (of which she was suspected) is one of many mental illnesses that are separated by a thick list of presenting conditions.

Some of those are diagnosed through the presence or lack thereof certain chemical markers in the blood.  There are other symptoms as well and on occasion those symptoms get filtered through religious fervour.

I had a friend who went missing for several days when I had just turned 20.  We found out prior to his disappearance that he told his girlfiriend that he had been praying and Jesus told him he no longer needed his meds.  When authorities caught up to him he was walking on the runway at Mt. Hope airport.  Fortunately nothing was attempting to land at the time.

We have no idea why the doctor decided to involuntarily admit this woman.  I suspect it was something more closely connected to her blood levels and the fact that she was confused and disoriented.

Personally speaking.  I don't know that she is in her right mind or suffers from a mental illness.  I do know that she is an idiot for fasting 15 days and nearly killing herself in the process.

She alleges that she does this kind of thing all the time.  Why then did her mother feel it necessary to call for an ambulance?

At any rate.  She decides to take a stupid course of action, winds up in the hospital because of it where the hospital treats her as if she is ill when she just is really stupid.

One of the criteria required for involuntary committal is the belief that the individual will harm themself or others.  The fact that she starved herself into a state of delerium and was suffering from water toxicity (something that happens when you don't eat and you use water to ease your hunger for 15 days).

Off-hand.  I'd say this woman meets that criteria.  Though I don't know she is ill, she very well may be.  I am of the opinion that she is none too bright.

Grace and peace to you.

John

are you guys all saying its sounds like something out of a 3rd rated sci fi move? 

Hi blackbelt1961,

I am not saying that.

Some of your conclusions fit that description.

What I am saying is that we do not have all the facts, just those presented by the plaintiff.  She was successful at the probate court which only proves that at the time she appealed to the probate court she was fit to be released.

She was not admitted to the hospital nor was she committed because of her prayers.

She was admitted to the hospital because she starved herself into a state of delerium and poisoned herself while doing so.

She claims this is a religious thing she does routinely.

I gather it doesn't typically end like this (with her needing to be hospitalized).

I also expect that since prayer is not a symptom of anything other than a religious bent there must have been something else presenting that pointed the doctor towards a Bi-polar diagnosis.

At any rate this is part of the Ohio Revised Code that allows mental health professionals to involuntarily commit individuals for psychiatric care.

The woman was brought to hospital confused and disoriented and there were no obvious signs of phusical trauma which would explain that condition. so whatever the problem is it might be mental.

What impaired her judgment not to eat for 15 days?  The article doesn't say exactly.  It is just a religious thing she does.  She poisoned herself with water which is, all things considered not an easy thing to do.  I submit that nobody with a grasp on reality would willfully do it and only those with a poor grasp of reality will accidentally do it.

Self-starvation and water toxicity are substantial risks.  The woman could have died because of her own stupidity.

The doctors observe everything and they make copious notes, many of which are first impressions and may lead nowhere.  I've been through it as a parent and believe me when I read the notes from my son's first intake at the Janeway Children's hospital in St. John's NL anyone observing would have noted that I posed a substantial risk to others.

I do not know how the woman behaved while under observation.  Her religious devotion does not appear to be run of the mill.  Even for pentecostalism.  I have no doubt that many on her team would have wondered if it was reflective of mental illness.

The diagnosis of Bi-polar disorder with psychotic features is pretty broad and without the doctors notes or any observations from a team member it is impossible to tell what they were seeing that led them to conclude what they did.

She was admitted to hospital on July 10 and ultimately discharged on August 9.  What strikes me as interesting is that she comes to the hospital in distress and even after they feed her and sort out that aspect of her self-inflicted problem she still presents as mentally ill.

She might be mentally ill and unaware of it.  Mild cases aren't always diagnosed immediately.

At any rate the fact that she is suing the hospital with false imprisonment and violation of patient rights doesn't force me to conclude that she is in the right.  The United States is a very litigious country and in civil courts cases that judges in Canada would dismiss as frivolous routinely make headlines for outrageous damage awards.

It will be interesting to see how this plays out.  I expect the hospital will offer to settle out of court (trials are bad publicity) unless the doctors notes could be read to point to significant mental illness being present.

And starving yourself for half a month sounds mentally ill to me.

Grace and peace to you.

John

excerpts from willhelm reich`s ``the mass psychology of fascism``

details from an insider

check out the TPP; this is gonna affect us all

and so it goes...

Hi blackbelt1961

In trying to find more information on the matter I found this paragraph, word for word on another site.

http://abundantlifeliving.wordpress.com/

On the one hand I am happy that this is not your original thought.  On the other hand I am dismayed that you are so easily persuaded and will consider the paranoid ranting of an anonymous blogger.

I have to admit though.  I found the Biblical reference at the end of the blog to be surpassingly ironic.  If Jane Doe had been participating in that kind of fast she wouldn't have compromised herself medically and needed hospitalization.

What I don't know is if this is the blog responsible for the quote because the same paragraph shows up here as well:

http://www.naturalnews.com/044306_hospital_imprisonment_mental_illness_s...

At least this author is willing to identify themself as Lucas J Devon and you can follow that to Lucas' own site at

http://lucas2012infos.wordpress.com/lucas-2012-infos/

Which leads me to conclude that the only thing connecting these two sources is probably a penchant for wearing tinfoil headgear.

I suspect that Lucas, since he actually put his name to the article is the source of the quote which you use in the OP.

Grace and peace to you.

John

If you believe something strongly enough are you subjectively stuck?

This is assuming that your beliefs are not totally beyond your subjective state in which you could be up there in Jerusalem Complex and about to come down ... like a Sunday morning after too much self desire ... the Hebrew's Eve of Shabat is supposed to be temporary break from the work ... temporal basket case situation from which one returns ... to the work of the wise ... if you see need for etude ... so you could see subjective activity does have consequence (what some would call objective learning)?

There are those that devoid themselves of this ... and believe the whole thing is just a non existent unconscious thingy ... but if that is your history ... does it become your milieu? Some dilemmas need recracking ... so you can go fig-ur' ...

Does religion subjectivize emotions ... to the detriment of wisdom?

It is said wisdom is out in the street ... indicating how we care ... biblic Allah!

To me this article shows the woman who says she is a Spiritual Author was ignorant as to the purpose of fasting and the toll of fasting on the physical body ----The article doesn't say why she fasted ----

Fasting in the Old Testament was done when they were seeking God in distressing circumstances ----

Fasting today is done to bring our body under submission to the flesh ----We have the Holy Spirit indwelling in us so we are always in contact with God ---So in all situations we already have God in sight ----

This woman took it upon herself to do something to her body and ended up enslaved in her decision -----

This is why it is so important to ask God before we act on a whim -----This woman has no one to blame but her own ignorance to her action of fasting  -----

Peace

Just making conversation is all, I didnt say I believe it , But let m ask you , in the last I would say 30 yrs or so , do you think that the general population has become overly medicated? 

where are we heading with the drug Corps?

An induced social order of pharmacuetical useless ness?

Rob Ford won't like that attitude BB!

I love Robbie :) 

Is that an offhand pious statement?

no I really do, what you see is what you get

Hi blackbelt1961,

Fair enough.

My experience with mental health services doesn't go back that far.  My first experience came with my son's first crisis in 1999.  He was 7 at the time and to be quite candid, nobody from mental health was really interested in his case.

My experience with mental health in the provinces of Ontario and Newfoundland and Labrador is that it is poorly funded, inadequately equipped and understaffed.  That is going to lead to problems eventually.

The typical problems we are seeing all tend to end violently.  Individuals needing help do not get adequate help and when their illness becomes crisis the cheapest of all medications appears to be a police officers bullet.

Which is not me blaming the cops for not being prepared.  If our governments won't invest the necessary funds into the health system to address the mental health shortfalls why do the police suddenly become responsible for it?

We would also have to define what is meant by overly medicated, under medicated and properly medicated.  To be frank the it is my experience that those raising the alarm about over medication tend to have little to any actual understanding about mental health and how it is treated.

There are some definite differences between now and 30 years ago that need to be taken into consideration.

1)  Stigmatization of mental illness.  If there are more diagnoses of this now than 30 years ago it is only because so much energy has gone into removing the stigma of mental health issues.  Formerly society was majorily ignorant about them.  I wouldn't say that the situation has changed a whole lot.  Folk are more familiar with the concept if not the reality and so slightly more forgiving about mental health issues.

2)  Diagnosis and detection.  It gets better and better all the time and as a result we are now finding that the eccentric family member was so because of an undiagnosed mental health issue.

Where I have noticed a persistent call to medicate is typically in the area of education.  Primarily at the elementary level.

Doctors are not leading the charge here.  There are a number of armchair psych specialists who ordinarliy are known as teachers or teacher's aides who tend to think students that they can't manage are behaviourally or neurologically in need of chemical restraints.

I can't begin to list how many times I have had to advocate for parents who were being pressured by the Education system to have their child identified with a special need of somekind (typically beyond the one already diagnosed).  My son was suspended from school until we could produce a doctors note.

This was, as it turns out, in violation of the province's education act and once I announced that I was prepared to name names at a Human Rights hearing the suspension was immediately terminated.  There was a deliberate effort on behalf of the Superintendent's assistant to prevent me from having direct contact with the superintendent over that matter.  

Drug Corps?  What pray tell is that?

With respect to my son he went through several different drug regimens between the age of 9 and the age of 13.  Some of the effects of the drugs he was on were quite worrying.  We eventually left the province of Newfoundland and Labrador because we were convinced that adolescent mental health was barely passed the burrholes and leaches phase of medicine.

Upon arrival here in Ontario my son went into crisis and that resulted in a hospitalization that lasted from July 14 to December23.  During that time doctors suspected and tested for a bi-polar disorder (something doctors in NL would not consider possible) and he began treatment with the standard drug used to control that particular illness.

He is still medicated now though his current mental health professional has moved him to a new generation medication which does not have the same potential for deadly side effects and his dosage has been reduced.

Had that treatment never happened I have no doubt that he would also have died in a confrontation with police.

I don't think psychiatry is perfect.  The human brain is far more complex than the human heart.  A cardiac surgeon is essentially a glorified mechanic.  Psychiatry is still very much in its infancy stages.

That said, I'll take infant psychiatry over age old ignorance any day of the week.

Grace and peace to you.

John

Do you believe if we lived in a kinder, more humane world, there'd be less mental illness in general? I do. I think that our world breeds fear and insecurity and that is the trigger for a lot of mental illness around. To become depressed and anxious is a natural reaction to unnatural conditions. Some people are more sensitive to it. It's just their make up. It's not necessarily a bad thing to be sensitive to what's wrong with the world.

There used to be a man I'd see around the neighborhood who would talk to lamp posts and newspaper boxes- whatever they were 'saying' to him he seemed to find very funny. He was a smiley happy go lucky character. I don't believe he was a harm to himself or anyone. He knew how to dress himself and order coffee at Starbucks. I am not sure that the stats support that all people with schizophrenia are dangerous or violent. I think that's a stigma presented in the media because of smaller number of cases that ended badly. Of all the people who have schizophrenia and bi polar- most don't make it into the news just because they stopped to talk to an inanimate object or decided to run streakers down the street.

Someone else I have talked to in town at the local coffee shop, from time to time talks to 'something' in mid conversation. I asked him once who he was talking to, and he told me he picks up radio interference...okay... Then he just carried on talking about 'normal' stuff. He looks like an ominous character, big and gruff looking and people are scared of him. They give him funny looks and hurry by- but he's a gentle person, and quite intelligent and capable. He also has lots of friends around the neighborhood who care about him. Wouldn't hurt a fly. He's been in the neighborhood for years.

Hi BlackBelt -- I find this thread very interesting. I have read some of the write ups on it. But find they leave much to be asked.

Rev John -- You have posted a bit on this . This is some that you have said.

It will be interesting to see how this plays out.  I expect the hospital will offer to settle out of court (trials are bad publicity) unless the doctors notes could be read to point to significant mental illness being present.

And starving yourself for half a month sounds mentally ill to me.

______________________________________

Airclean--I am not sure, I would go as far as your last line . As I am sure you know The Lord Jesus Christ Fasted for 40 days and fourty nights. I do not believe" He was crazy,  or mentally ill. Even  after  He  begain  talking to sa-tan . I still did not see Him as being mentally  ill . If we agree that Christ was fully human and I think we do.  We could understand he would go through the same affects ,as what, any human would go through.I believe the word says He was hungry , and I believe His  flesh, had become  very weak.  I also though do understand there are some things that can change in you . When you fast  in Prayer, and thought on GOD. Would I tell someone to fast 30-40 days never". Try one day or a most two.I also believe you mite want to read up on it first.  -God Bless --airclean33

Hi Rev John. This is some that I read.

There are also people who go on hunger strikes in peaceful political protests. Are they nuts? Was Gandhi crazy? He fasted a lot. He put himself at risk, didn't hurt anyone else. His hunger strike was 21 days long and he was in his 60s. I'd be willing to bet some of his loved ones disapproved the weaker he got. Granted, it's not recommended to starve oneself willy nilly. There are going to be health consequences and it's generally not a good idea for the average joe to fast for long periods of time.

blackbelt

I used to read on New Age forums where fasting, reike, and various forms of non traditional  spiritual/physical  healing were very commonly practiced. There were problems sometimes but the people continued on with it. 

Here's some info.  on Dr.Saraj Brar :

I followed your link about Jerusalem Syndrome and found links to Stendhal Syndrome and Paris Syndrome. That sounds like bunk to me. Seems to me these 'syndromes' are a result of being either overwhelmed by the religious, cultural and historical significance of these places, or are overwhelmed by cultural barriers (as in Paris Syndrome)- who, unless they are numb, wouldn't feel awestruck to be in a place with so much amazing history and significance (as in Type II, and Type III to some extent- some people want to immerse themselves in the experience- I'm not too concerned that there are people who get so into it, they want to march to the Western Wall in a toga and preach about peace and simplicity- they're free to do that, aren't they? No matter how 'weird' it is)? Even sometimes to the point of mystical spiritual experiences (which resolve once back in samesville again)? I wouldn't be surprised if visits to the Egyptian or Mayan pyramids evoked similar responses. Stonehenge, too. Do you propose that people should be medicated in order to do away with these syndromes? Are these really 'unnatural' reactions? Or that we should create benign boring societies that do not inspire the kind of awe that would produce such symptoms. And what about cultural attitudes towards strangers (Paris Syndrome) and cultural barriers. Do the visitors to Paris have the problem or is lack of hospitality and prejudice a problem that produces overwhelming anxiety in these visitors- maybe they really are 'persecuted' by prejudice? Where does the problem rest?

Perhaps you'd experience similar 'symptoms' if you ever get to ride on a Virgin Galactic Spacecraft or even spend several days looking through the Hubble Telescope. Talk about psychadelic. Imagine zero gravity. Talk about disorientation. So what? As long as it doesn't end up violent or render a person a unable to tie their shoelaces. That's called being alive.

In my opinion , drug and insurance corporations are  funding political interests , in the US, ADHD starts at 3 yrs of age , This generation is over druged 

Sometimes people really need drugs to function at all. Sometimes society over-reacts to anything slightly eccentric or outside the norm. Sometime society itself is to blame for the conditions that trigger certain reactions (is it crazy not to get depressed about what's happening in the world- just read the paper-how can we hear about the enormous death toll in Syria for example- and go about feeling totally happy and content and forget about it? That's nuts- and the western world is getting nuttier with indifference- we can just look at the world through rose coloured glasses, or Google Glass- and we don't have to think about it. Maybe that's insane.) - or it's too much of a bother to accommodate differences so we medicate instead. I think that does happen more than people care to admit.

In my experience, doctors are quick to prescribe, slow to remove prescriptions. I think most people who receive drugs either benefit or could benefit from the prescription.

There is also the common habit of looking for solutions in pill form. Everyone wants quick and easy solutions and answers, which isn't unlike religion, really. Some pills would not be necessary if people would eat right and exercise. I have no experience with drugs used to treat mental illness, so I can't comment as to whether they are overprescribed or not. I just don't know, which is an answer I still say more people should be using if they were being honest.

Sure. But if you've met many people with mental illness- and really asked honestly if they're stigmatized or not- and if conformity to social norms through the use of drugs is always the right answer- you might have a firmer opinion.

According to common definitions- Gandhi was nuts. The Suffragettes in UK were nuts- as crazy as this woman in the article on the basis of fasting (they posed dangers to themselves- but not others). If Jesus really fasted for 40 days- by today's standards we'd lock him up and force feed him. If it were up to much of normative society we'd be medicating everyone who talks to themselves- whether they're a harm or not- they're inconvenient. And- if someone is depressed about the state of the world but poses no danger, drugs help them forget that- why should they? It's crazy not to be somewhat depressed about it, really- as long as you can still function- I think that's 'normal'. Ignoring the problems in the news doesn't make them go away- that's delusional.

This thread did a bit of a jog into the topic of mental health services.  I spotted an article about youth and the way they are overwhelming the liimited facilities and services and posted it in Health and Aging.

Hi Kimmio,

No.  I don't think that there would be less.  We might be better equipped to deal with it when it manifests.

The reason why I say no is simply because brain chemistry is not dependent upon whether we are loved or treated well.

You realize the function of a trigger right?  The gun is already loaded, you pull the trigger and the gun goes off.  The trigger doesn't create the mental illness and many illnesses are not dependent upon external triggers

Being depressed and being diagnosed with depression are not the same things.  A clinical diagnosis of depression doesn't mean that so and so is just a tad more sensitive than others.  It means that there is an underlying physiological condition.  It cannot be treated with hugs and well wishes.

Which is true.  However nobody knows, least of all the individual themselves, when they are going to progress from sharing a joke with a lamp post into behaviour that is far more troubling and/or injurious.

My son is without a doubt the most thoughtful member of our family.  When he gives a gift (birthday or some other speacial occasion) he impresses the whole family because he has picked up on something that is really important to the person giving the gift.  This isn't impressive because of his Bi-polar.  It is impressive because of his ASD.

At any rate, he is a different person when not medicated.

Feral, paranoid and a very real danger to others.  Some of the others who were part of United Online before WonderCafe.ca came into being have heard some hair raising tales of all that we have gone through

My son, more than any other member of the family is most concerned about his medication.  Not because he remembers any of it but because he has heard the stories and doesn't want any new ones.

And contrary to the kinder and gentler thesis if that was the case our two daughters would be just a ill as he because our parenting strategies have changed but our characters haven't.  If we knew what a trigger was (and when he was not treated anything could have been a trigger) we would have let everyone else know.

It is a great idea.  It sadly, doesn't have much traction in reality.

Grace and peace to you.

John

Hi airclean33,

Was he confused and disoriented?  Was he hospitalized because of it?  No?  Then the two are not even similar.

I have participated in fasts.  It is now a routine of my lenten observation.  I observe a Sabbath fast.  I have also participated in weekend fasts.  That is about as far as I am willing to push it.  That is me knowing my limits.

The woman clearly surpassed hers.

Grace and peace to you.

John

Hi airclean33,

I read it as well.

This "opinion" is the opinion of an individual not present or competent to make diagnosis.  It belongs to one of the two tinfoil brigade posters I linked to above.

Grace and peace to you.

John

Hi Kimmio,

We use the language committed.  it isn't coincidence.

That said there is a functional difference.  Ghandi wasn't wandering off in a delerium nor was he suffering from water intoxification.

For the record, if Ghandi showed up at emerge dazed and confused and praying persistently and loudly it wouldn't surpise me in the least if there was a query of bi-polar entered into his charts.

Would I personally be as critical of Ghandi as I am of this woman.  Yes.

Grace and peace to you.

John

Did he go into delirium? I don't know, John, I wasn't at his bedside. I wouldn't be surprised if he did after that many days without food. If so, not bi polar. That's a result of low electrolytes from not eating.

I understand that your son needs medication for his and others' safety. I'm not holding that against you or him. And the man I've talked to isn't the same as your son. He talks to "radio interference"- and he is gentle and friendly even then, between interruptions (sometimes he argues with whoever he's talking to). Edit: I can picture him in Biblical times as someone like John the Baptist would've been. I've known him from around the neighbourhood for years. From the little bit I know- his life hasn't been easy. We could call those external factors. The prejudices against him I don't imagine make it easier. He isn't 'pretty looking' and his talking to himself from time to time freaks people out. But he really is a nice guy- just gruff, and "different". I also understand that in my family we have markers for diabetes and cancer. It is external factors that have been a trigger. Were it not for those factors, they likely wouldn't have been diagnosed with those diseases.

You know what I think is really, certifiably, batshit crazy? The nuclear arms industry. The people in charge of that and profiting off it are freakin' crazy. There's nothing sane about it. But they're above being locked up or medicated. That business is as dangerous and insane as it gets- everywhere that it exists- and it concerns everyone everywhere- even those in charge. The fact that a few powerful people hold enough power to destroy the whole world in short order. I recently read that Japan, after the Fukishima crisis which is an ongoing hazard, now wants to produce plutonium for reactors- enough, if they decided to, to produce thousands of warheads per year? That's crazy. Given what's happened there- it's insane. Talk about harm to self and others. You know what else is crazy- that the few richest people in the world hold more wealth than everybody else combined. That factories in third world countries pay meager wages and exploit workers and get rich. That even here in Canada a person can work full time on minimum wage and still not meet their basic needs. What else is crazy- we're killing our natural environment. Is it paranoid to be concerned about these things- or delusional not to be? I think a few people talking to lamp posts (I don't think they're anymore dangerous than anyone else- that's a prejudice. How do you know you're any less likely to snap?) and whether or not mentally ill people are generally inconvenient (as opposed to being legitimately harmful), is the least of our worries. I don't think they are really any more likely to pose harm, most of them, than a car is likely to have an accident or a gun owner in the US is likely to have an accident, or someone is likely to die in friendly fire (or any other kind) in wars- when we shouldn't be having wars. But people who talk to lamp posts are weird and inconvenient.

Was Moses bi-polar? Did he hallucinate the burning bush and hear a voice- or was that a myth? Or real? Either way, he's a valuable figure with something to say,and few have written him off. Same with Jesus, and Paul. Christianity is based on stories about people that are either myths, or if people really did experience what they claimed, would be medicated and/ or admitted, today.

Was Jesus bi-polar?

Yes, I quite agree. Ditto for Paul, and maybe Moses as well.

you guys suggesting
there might be something
to that story

I don't know the woman involved- what she's like day to day, but low electrolytes could be a result of starvation. Being involuntarily committed would deny her the right to a second medical opinion.

That is an excellent point

Although, in hospitals there's usually a team of professionals. As an outpatient she could get the opinion of several different doctors, though- by her own volition. Which maybe she did afterwards. If she has the wherewithal to take it to court- she's obviously high functioning if she's bi-polar at all.

This is from national health services in UK. I didn't find a Canadian equivalent but I'm sure I could. It states that people with schizophrenia are rarely dangerous, and that violent behaviour is usually the result of drugs or alcohol- which is the same for people without schizophrenia.

That we mistakenly think they're more dangerous is a stigma, a prejudice- perpetrated by the media because of rare gruesome cases. Misconceptions like Rev. John's that we don't know when the guy talking to the lamp post might snap- is all too common and I think prejudicial. That's right. We don't. No more than we know when someone in a bar is going to go off- and that's more likely to happen. More likely that we think that people who talk to lamp posts are inconvenient or embarrassing to our status quo.

http://www.nhs.uk/Conditions/Schizophrenia/Pages/Introduction.aspx

From the Canadian Mental Health Association (states that people with mental illness are more likely to be victims of violence):

http://www.cmha.ca/mental_health/violence-and-mental-illness/#.UyUWbIl5mc0

Here's what can happen with electrolyte imbalances and low sodium levels. Confusion is among the symptoms as are hallucinations- when a person is over hydrated with fluids (like water) that do not contain enough sodium. It can happen to anyone who is fasting I'd presume because lack of nutrient intake would be a primary reason for electrolyte imbalance. And if a person drinks only lots of water- I could see how detrimentally low sodium could happen unless it was added to the water. Could've happened to Gandhi (maybe everything he said and did during his hunger strike wasn't recorded). Could've happened to Paul. Could've happened to Jesus. It isn't so far fetched if you think about it (maybe the devil tempting him was a battle with his psyche and he won? Anyone considered that? Maybe he was delirious- that would be understandable and doesn't diminish the lesson in the story. We know he wasn't stupid.) Desert dehydration and sleep deprivation could also easily be triggers for delirium. Maybe John of Patmos was starving and/ or sleep deprived. Raises interesting questions. How would we react today if a guy wandered off into the desert by himself for a 40 day fast? They weren't necessarily bi-polar- and the world wouldn't be the same without them. It makes no sense to venerate what they did and write off people now- lengthy fasting is dangerous and I don't think just anyone should go on long fasts- but it is hypocritical to judge others and esteem Jesus the prophets, and modern ones like Gandhi, isn't it? How do we reason with that? I am not sure of this woman's motive for her fast but we shouldn't be quick to write her off as stupid or bi-polar without knowing her.
http://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/153188.php

Hi blackbelt1961,

Since we only have one side of the story I would suggest that there is at the very least one other side more.

How that other side stacks up against the side we have heard (and on that point the side we have heard omits details).

I refuse to believe that the problem was a medical professional mistaking religious devotion for psychosis or worse yet, a medical professional deliberately misrepresenting religious devotion as psychosis.

There was one doctor heading up the case.  That doctor does not act alone since that doctor cannot be present for that patient 24/7.  There is a whole team of professionals interacting with every patient that is admitted and that team consults routinely.

I don't know how long it would take to medically undo the damage that the woman has done to herself.  At that time blood levels would not be influenced by the lack of food or water toxicity.  And yet, for some reason the team did not apparently say to itself.  We have a healthy sane person that should be released.

Why is that?

I have no idea.

I will have no idea until the Doctor and the team are able to present their side of the story.

As for settling out of court.  It is not necessarily an admission of guilt.  It simply is the easier path and there will be non-disclosure conditions attached.  The reason why it is the simpler path is because there is already a growing opinion that this was some deliberate conspiracy against religion (read Christian persecution if she was Jewish or Islam the story would be very different).

Grace and peace to you.

John