Satan? Who is that masked man? Do you know him?

The faith that can be killed by asking a question probably deserves its untimely demise.  God has given us brains for a reason.  Those nagging doubts are likely trying to tell us something.  It's because someone asked questions that we found out the earth was round, rather than flat.  It was by exploring beyond that which was always assumed that we discovered that the earth moves around the sun, and not vice versa (which had been previously thought for eons).

Seems to me that what you're talking about is credulity, not faith.  As someone has pointed out on your other thread, the opposite of faith is not doubt, but faithlessness.

Personally, my patrion saint is Thomas, who demanded proof and kept asking questions.  Doubter he may have been, but he was also a faithful doubter.  Long live the spirit of inquiry.  Long live the questions, for they are the burrs in the saddles that keep us moving forward.

 Redbaron you are a wise one you are.

EXACTLY.  Once you start asking good questions, faith often falls into full retreat.  Keep it up.  Ask questions of your faith leaders.  Let your mind find a line of questioning and think about the answers.  Ask yourself why you believe and start down a path.

If good questions are answered with circular arguments, that's not the fault of the questioner.  That's because religious answers are often circular - that's one of the biggest indications that religion has no answers.

Why?  Why accept something just because it is in print?  What if there is more than one answer in the bible, and they are contradictory?

These are the sorts of questions you should be asking.  Let the answers guide you where they will.

If your belief system or your government ever demands you accept what it tells you, run.  Better yet, fight.  Fight it with good questions.  Fight it with good arguments.  But never, ever let someone tell you what to believe on important matters and demand no questions be asked.  There should be warning bells going off in your head when your faith demands you be mindlessly obedient.

Chanson perhaps the answers aren't in the book perhaps the book is a guide and history of how people through the ages have perceived God. Perception is not always truth. I believe, for myself, that God is a good friend who is always with me. I do not believe that life will be peaches and cream because God is my friend. Life is life and people are fallible.

Hi narrowgate,

How many questions constitute "too many" questions?

Is it one, five, or perhaps ten?

The faith you currently enjoy is the result of questions being asked?  Is it the result of asking just the right number of questions or is it the result of you having already asked too many questions?

I take it that you believe it is possible to ask some questions, hence the phrase "too many questions" instead of the simple "any questions."

How many questions have you asked yourself to date and how many more do you need to ask before you put yourself into the danger zone of asking too many questions?

Yeah, notice how the dog stops after seconds?  Either because it clues in to the fact that it isn't going to catch it or it does, in fact, catch its tail.  Ever witness a dog chase its own tail to death?

It might do it for a couple of seconds this morning and a couple of seconds later in the day.  A dog will stop chasing its own tail all on its own as soon as something more interesting comes along.

Wonderful.  Can you please cite the text which answers the question, "How many questions are too many questions?"

Well, that is but one of many problems.  Even if we agree that a problem or even the problem plaguing humanity is that it is fallen and rebellious how does limiting the number of questions we ask correct or heal that problem?

In 1 John 1:  4 we are exhorted to "test every spirit"  how many questions will that test require?  How many more questions can be added to the discernment process before we are asking too many questions?

Does our asking questions to discern the spirit magnify our fallen and rebellious natures or does it inhibit them?

Not necessarily.  One can simply take the easy route of literalism and not ask any questions beyond "what does the text say?"  Of course when we decide that we are the final arbiters on what any piece of text says how will we test the spirit that led us to that interpretation?  You know, so we aren't reading into the text of scripture what we want to see rather than having the text speak to us as it wants to?

On all matters?  Even if they are matters beyond the scope of scripture?  Even where witness accounts differ?

It also promotes materialism and fact-fundamentalism, as well as a number of other quantified fundamentalisms.  Not always at the same time or even the same place.  

Interestingly individualism becomes a problem for the Christian when the Christian refuses to engage the wider community (and not just other Christians) because it leads to a myopic distortion of events and issues.

Your insistence above that all answers to all questions are found in the Bible is also a form of relativism.  The fact that you are a Christian and not, say a Jew, is a product of your relativism.  You clearly can choose to be one or the other yet, you have chosen to be a Christian and read the whole of the Hebrew scriptures through the lense of Christianity which is, again, a relativist practice.

Individualism and relativism question the authority of everything period.  Why would they stop with questioning the authority of the Bible or God?  How would they be consistent if they questioned everything but the authority of the Bible or God?

Today's culture is what you, I and others make of it.  There will be some who wish to adjust our moral framework so that it aligns with their particular perspective (just as you are doing in your posts here).  Nobody is trying to strip the moral framework away simply because it is too useful a tool to get people to do what you want them to.

And by out-thinking you mean only those who continue to ask questions and not those who are so satisfied they no longer ask them right?  Again, your faith position is what it is because it is the current end-point of your question asking process.  How many questions have you asked to arrive where you are and how many more need you have asked before you asked too many?  Please cite the answer to those questions from scripture.

Quite the conundrum you present here.

1 John 1:  4 tells us to test every spirit which would include the spirit behind your motivation for posting here.  You are exhorting us simply to accept what you post and one of the things you simply want us to accept is that one can simply ask too many questions or discern too much.  No relativism operating in that.

A worthwhile text which does not prohibit the asking of questions nor does it place a cap on the number of questions that can be asked.  It commends us not to lean on our own understanding and unless we ask questions the only understanding we will have available to lean on is our own.

While I agree with you about the necessity of faith and trust I fail to see how relationships can be built without even the simplest of questions being asked.  God asks questions of us, is God aware that there is such a danger as asking too many questions?

Grace and peace to you.

John

Gate: it's the question that matters. Some questions throw open wide gates of wonder; some questions regress into tight little holes of certainty; some questions are hopelessly vacuous… incapable of producing anything except their own vacuity. 

A part of modern rationalism (which has been around for several hundred hyears and it now teetering) has been an absession with data; the awareness that a stupid question can produce as much data as an insightful one has been somewhat lost. So there's a lot of seriously-taken "stupid" around… stuff life (for example) THE Economy .

I came to faith through my questions. Some questions do not need answers… some simply impel us into trust. Some give us the courage to be vulnerably curious.  I've found some of my answers in the "Bible" (I'm not sure which one you'd been referring to)… but ALL have been available in life through an openness to life. If one is blinkered into Scripture and walled between the covers of a Bible, it's hard to gather the experience that I think is needed to test the Scripture and live it. I believe Scripture resources us for the journey but we still have to take the journey… that entails changes of insight, shifts in understanding and breadthening of knowledge; at the very least it involves exposure to difference and diversity, to beauty, to strange places to varieties of emotional experience… it involves letting go, it involves opening to the unexpected, to awe and to trust; it involves transcending fear and self-doubt.

The greater part of wisdom, of faith and of "salvation" is finding the right questions… 

Moses, the apostles all asked questions

I would have to disagree, the spirit of the word self/individualism has been in opposition since the that fall of man , so has relativism , "live your own truth", a great example is Pontius Pilots question, "What is Truth"

its not the questions that drives us apart, it's the nature of mans heart, satan knows his lies , those who live in deception are not liars .

John and RB, you are a credit to our order.

I think your issue may  be  "asking too many questions' in relation to effort in expanding on the wisdoms of the world and its false teachings purposely in a effort to dismiss and invalidate the scriptures and teachings of Jesus, rather than 'asking many questions' in relation to embracing truth.

i think there may be some in the world that would like to put theologies based on their own desires while aware if its oppositions to sound doctine ,and use the existing Church and resources to do it. I think that may be  a reasonable concern.although,  i dont consider  that a question itself can kill faith, poorly worded thread title?

¹ But mark this: There will be terrible times in the last days. ² People will be lovers of themselves, lovers of money, boastful, proud, abusive, disobedient to their parents, ungrateful, unholy, ³ without love, unforgiving, slanderous, without self-control, brutal, not lovers of the good, ⁴ treacherous, rash, conceited, lovers of pleasure rather than lovers of God— ⁵ having a form of godliness but denying its power. Have nothing to do with such people.

 ⁶ They are the kind who worm their way into homes and gain control over gullible women, who are loaded down with sins and are swayed by all kinds of evil desires, ⁷ always learning but never able to come to a knowledge of the truth. ⁸ Just as Jannes and Jambres opposed Moses, so also these teachers oppose the truth. They are men of depraved minds, who, as far as the faith is concerned, are rejected. ⁹ But they will not get very far because, as in the case of those men, their folly will be clear to everyone.

 ¹⁰ You, however, know all about my teaching, my way of life, my purpose, faith, patience, love, endurance, ¹¹ persecutions, sufferings—what kinds of things happened to me in Antioch, Iconium and Lystra, the persecutions I endured. Yet the Lord rescued me from all of them. ¹² In fact, everyone who wants to live a godly life in Christ Jesus will be persecuted, ¹³ while evildoers and impostors will go from bad to worse, deceiving and being deceived. ¹⁴ But as for you, continue in what you have learned and have become convinced of, because you know those from whom you learned it, ¹⁵ and how from infancy you have known the Holy Scriptures, which are able to make you wise for salvation through faith in Christ Jesus. ¹⁶ All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness, ¹⁷ so that the servant of God^[a] may be thoroughly equipped for every good work. (2 Timothy Chapter 3)

I would say that the opposite of faith is certainty.  If you are certain that everything in the Bible is absolute Truth then where is faith - Hebrews 11:1 Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.

When reading Narrowgate's opener, I wondered if there would be any comments in total agreement.

Happily (so far) there are none.

Interesting replies, from which NG could and hopefully will learn much.

--- I think  "The Naked Archeologist"  series on TV ... is a wonderful, pleasent, insightful

body of question-answering. Highly recommented.

Questions haven't ever killed my faith, only inspired it.  My faith is constantly evolving.

Ooops...mentioned evolution...is that a bad word?

It is the suppression of questions, the discouraging of inquiring minds that would kill my faith. 

Oh sure, Narrowgate, the Bible can be read as an answer book and nothing but an answer book. I myself find it rather sad to think that anyone would choose to read it in such a way however, I believe we should also read the Bible to challenge ourselves so that our faith becomes stronger. Bible reading can certainly provoke questions. I have been blessed to have been a student of one of Canada's finest evangelical universities over the past year (I'll graduate in November 2013). During that time I have discovered -- the more I study the Bible, the more I get to know God's word, the more questions I have.

Hi Happy Retiree--- I read The R,S.V. It reads a littel diff.----------------------------------------

I think when you read a littel more it explains it's self.-----------------------------------------------

see how much agape there is here, narrowgate? people wanting to communicate with you, hands reached out in friendship to perhaps share a bit of our lives with you, if you are willing to take the risk, be vulnerable...

I am of the camp that says that questioning should not kill faith, but help better understand it and cast aside those beliefs that don't withstand the scrutiny. Faith will never die from questioning, only change and evolve and, perhaps, strengthen, as weak or untenable beliefs fall away under scrutiny. Of course, if one is an absolutist who holds that there is one true way, then questioning that belief is going to be seen as "false" or "attacking the truth". I do not hold to that kind of absolutism, but rather that questioning and inquiry is part of how we come to understand our place in the world and determine what is true for us.

The reading that I always put out, which is something of a creed for some of us UUs, is in my blog: http://www.wondercafe.ca/blogs/mendalla/doubt-and-faith

Mendalla

[quote=narrowgate]

The problem with asking too many questions is that there is never an answer that feels acceptable.  The journey becomes an endless string of one question after another, after another, after another. Think of a dog chasing its tail. 

It intrigues me that your respondents all duck your point. You do not lament frequent questioning; you decry the cult of questions in which people don't really want answers, however well considered, and anyone who proffers  helpful answers encounters indignation at the presumption that biblical answers to our most vexing questions might actually be available.  Many such seekers are close to biblically illiterate due to the disincentive of their low view of bibical revelation, a low view thay might discard if they studied the hidden riches of Scripture in greater depth! 

The recent massive REVEAL study on the most decisive factors for spiritual growth reinforces your point.  This research study focused on 225,000 church attenders with various levels of skeptiicism from churches of various sizes from many different denominations.  It looked at concrete measues of a growing love for God and people and found a rather surprsing key to growth.  Regaredless of level of spiritual growth, there was one factor that proved far more important than number of church activities, service to the poor and needy, and increased grasp of the nature of discipleship (all very important for faith). A far more decisive factor for growth was a daily application of fresh biblical insights gleaned from meditation on Scripture to the problems of each day.   

Yes, Mendalla, I agree. Unquestioning or "blind" belief is just that: blind! Absolutism keeps us from growing, spirtually and intellectually.

one of my favourite minions of Satan from an oregonian tv show called "Bibleman" which my wife and I like to watch together :3

If a faith cannot withstand questions, what kind of faith is that?

If a faith is so stuck on its obsession with questioning that it cannot embrace biblical answers, regardless of how profound, helpful, and trransforming, what kind of faith is that?  That is precisely narrowgate's point.  Perhaps bibilical answers wouid require fundamental changes in one's spirituality, but one is not open to an affimrative response to God's challenge and hence retreats to the soothing paralysis of tired old questions.

The biblical metaphors can give us profound answers, but so can other books or other works of art.

For me, the most profound answers come from the work of art that God has created without human interference: Nature.

For me, the thing that hurts my faith is despair, which i can view as disconnection...my depression tends to encourage that, and its not just the feelings or absence of feelings, but also certain learned behaviours and situational behaviours that occur with it that, when i am 'in' it, i really can't see out of...it becomes a BS that is quite powerful...

Nothing can damage or change my faith. My faith is absolute.

My faith, however, is not doctrinal but experiential. It is the feeling of what I call the "cosmic divine" or the "Holy ONE." Whatever I think, say or believe about that feeling, though, is subject to change.

I think spiritual or religious experience has always been THE essential element of faith. Unquestioning belief in doctrine can be more hindrance than help, and is not really essential.

If faith is experiencial as you say, a feeling and experience of oneness-- as well as lack of faith being those feelings and experiences of seperation--then I experienced  that as much as an agnostic....once I recognized that, and it was quite a trying experience that led me to recognize that actually--a feeling of total seperation, the opposite of onenness--very deep depression and time of confusion-- I recognized that doctrine helps me make sense of what the Bible means (or doesnt mean), and  Biblical truths started to become apparent, and the feelings of onenness and seperation took on a new significance and importance--and recognizing that that feeling of onenness that  I've experieced is connection with God,  what I called an  undefinable energy  was the same one and only God of the Bible, without a doubt--it was though I was led to acknowledging God's presence...and I felt called  to learn about it, nurture it  in the world around me and be thankful for it--not just for personal catharsis but to make the world a better place...and even when I am not "feeling" God for myself, I have faith in God. Maybe for others it's opposite...through family tradition, they come to the doctrine and dogma first, then hopefully the experience unfolds, and in some cases doesn't if they're not open, or opened, to it.

But maybe I wouldn't myself characterise that as faith, because I didn't call what I experienced at the time either faith/ belief, or lack of faith/ belief, in God right away.  I didn't label it anything at the time....but I needed God, so I guess I had that much faith to aknowledge that I needed God--so maybe you're right-- going through it led me to the Bible, and I was opened to understanding the Bible. I would say, in a Christian context, faith is the trust and confidence that God exists and what the Bible says is true and good, as a premise...that doesn't negate questioning it's meaning and discovering the truths contained in it. So a person can have that trust, that faith, without yet being gifted with the full experience. Belief would be the ability to accept that the deeper  truths about Jesus contained in it  are real even though there may not be direct phyiscal evidence that's "provable" in a literal, scientific or historical sense and I may never perceive them in that way.. The truths are real just the same, as I am able to perceive them in a metaphorical way that opens me up to experiencing them.  So faith and belief are similar but not exactly the same.

Yes, Kimmio, doctrine is beneficial for many people, and there is nothing wrong with doctrine, unless it hardens into dogma and is believed in unquestioningly, uncritically, and absolutely. Soft doctrine is little more than teaching by way of metaphor, and is necessary and good and makes sense, as you said.

Only when doctrine hardens into dogma and becomes absolute is it potentially damaging. It actually is the absolutism in doctrines, not the doctrines themselves, that is damaging because doctrinal absolutism can keep us from progressing and evolving our spirits.

It's getting late, even here in B.C. Pleasant dreams, Kimmio.

Yes. It is late. I'm usually up late if  I don't need to get up too early because my partner goes to his work at 11:30 p.m.  We have an odd schedule sometimes.

Goodnight :)

:3

Yeah, it's not like my faith is some sort of resource that is used up...there are just times when I don't experience it because of my despair

Oh, and we should be wary of false Deities, as this documentary shows

Hey Inanna. I hear you  about despair. Are you feeling that way nowdays?

Inanna,

I hear you.........

When one is suffering clinical depression- as opposed to feeling "a bit down" which mistakedly is sometimes classified as clinical depression - one is disconnected from all connection.

It is a world of one - a prison of one with metaphorical walls that can't be scaled......

It is a world of experiencing no feeling - a desperate attempt, to avoid feeling because it is simply too painful......

Fortunately, I've discovered a way out of the prison.......

I contact my doctor, increase my medication if so instructed, contact my trusted friends who reaffirm my worth, say to myself "I'm enough", and slowly but surely I return to the wonderful world of connection.

Incidentally, it's not all bad news, when one "comes back" you feel a joy of living that many may not experience or understand......

Hi Berserk,

Not all of us.  I have specifically asked how many questions are too many questions.

Grace and peace to you.

John

I'm also interested to know how many questions are too many. As Arminius stated, doctrine can sometimes harden into dogma. Dogma does not allow for questining, and is arguably then, brainwashing.  I am not interested in that kind of "faith".

Inanna, I hope all is well. It is most certainly during those times of despair when questions arise.

Hi Inanna:

So you are one of those depression-prone people whose faith can abandon them in times of deep despair.

Well, my faith arose from deepest despair, and that's why I experience it even during episodes of sadness or despair. When I'm sad I'm happily or contentedly sad.

Herr, schicke was du willst,

Ein Liebes or ein Leides,

Ich bin vergnüngt dass beides

Aus deinen Händen quillt.

(Lord, send me what you will,

Joy or sadness,

I'm happy that both

Come forth from your hands.)

Oh, I'm asking because narrowgate or someone suggested there can be too many questions. And why would I want patients? I'm not a doctor.......

You have to read airclean33 and WaterBuoy phonetically.

Hi chansen---Thats---fon-et-ik-al-lee old man. You must be gatting tired.

I know....just being a brat. 

Oh and for airclean, I had another thought.....as far as I am concerned, God gave me a questioning nature.  I'm good with that, and like to honour it as much as possible.  

Hi narrowgate

What is Faith for you personally -----The Bible says this

Hebrews 10:5  --Cast not away therefore your confidence, which hath great recompence of reward--.KJB

This is Wesley's Notes on this scripture ---

10:35 Cast not away therefore this your confidence - Your faith and hope; which none can deprive you of but yourselves.

This to me says Faith is your confidence and confidence comes by spending time with something ----Faith comes by hearing and hearing by the word of God .

So your Faith has to do with how much time you spend with God and His word and growing in your confidence to believe what God has promised in His word will come to pass .

For example ----Philipians 4-19 says

Questions that Kill Faith?

I doubt questions kill faith, finding the wrong answers probably could though. Jesus himself used questions all the time to help lead us to the right answers, it seems as if he was encouraging us to question in order to lead us into a deeper understanding and relationship with him.

Who hasn't asked questions such, "why do bad things happen to good people?"  "Is there a heaven?", etc..... Every answer leads to another question. The way I see it, it's the same with any relationship. We want to continue to find out more about those we love in order to draw ourselves closer to them and know each other better.

There is no real intimacy without questions IMO.

Here is where I am at as it relates to questions killing faith..

If faith was not killed or God did not end a relationship after

"Do you think this fruit tastes good?"

"Want a bite?"

"You want me to build a what?"

"Is that a bush talking?"

"You want me to go where?"

"Why have you brought trouble to these people?"

"You are going to do what?"

"Shouldn't you act justly?"

"I am going to have a what?"

"You want me to what?"

"He's what?"

I believe God is bigger than any questions one might ask. Our faith is only killed when we allow it to die... Gods faith in us never dies.... God is in the business of restoration and resurrection.

Some people believe God is the word ... its biblical if you read John. Is there more beyond that?

Does God question 'ur/'imself? Can someone explicitly explain I Thessaloneans 5:21? Then how about that one about the story has parts that have no room on earth; is that spatial, or what, just abstract thinking of the otherside ... pronounce it as you will!

We are told we should understand ... would that include all-that-is ... an infinite travail for a Job? Now is that an awesome stretch for those with too great a grip on reality ... they can't deal with the more difficulty of the Complex ... on the otherside of something or other ... seen somewhat Lucidly be the devil that knows ... a Shadowing character of great depth ... it is fluid humour avoided by tyrants of REX ... that's roué all blood of Rome ... through witch we have learned nothing ... and history repeats ... for man as intitution doesn't wish to know ... as perceived children of God ... another mistake. Thus the dark periods of rest ... fur when de devil's got you tongue wagging it elswhere as a tail ... man can't stand life without a story of dogmaas and tail ...

Just as additional humour ... James Dobbson claimed to make a closing sermon to a Florida church ... based on the question: "Why Do We Not Ask More Questions of Authority?" Appears to revert to the famous convoluted biblical question about all-that-is ... flows as cosmological humours ... omi-gaw'd ID ais aye that? The word is deep Gnoe ... ascete-ich-allah Li auspicious! 

I'll go with the subversive emotional portion ... might learn something in the following Shadow ... isn't that de deuced? Something thunk as befalls mankind---Dante! Yah gota work the words a cle ... Ire Eire ... spatial! Latent 4'sis ...

WaterBouy,

Even though I am not a literalist, you posing the question whether God questions God made me ponder.

I started thinking first about God asking questions, like, "Where are you?" to those in the garden. "I will question you..." to Job.

"What would you have me do for you?" Jesus asked the blind man. "Why are you crying?" at the tomb. "What are you talking about?" on the road to Emmaus.

Then I wandered to "does God question God?"

Moses pleads for the people, does God just listen to Moses and say "is there something to this?" or does God say, "am I sure?" Does God say, "I am about to wipe a whole nation off the earth?" or "What abou that rainbow thing?"

With Abraham and Isaac, did God ever ask "What if..?"

What about Nineveh? Did God say, "Haven't we been here before?" or "Are you having another temper tantrum?"

For me, for God to be discerning, for God to be God, God has to question.

Thank you, WaterBouy.

Now some people believe that God is a man that came here to write a book of authority, when the "book" was actually writ by a bunch of authoritarian priests under a Roman REX (wreck of a soul) ... that the spirit would pass right through as Caesar wasn't really a sensitive sort ... making games out of killing people for sport ... especially those that imbibled in underground study of understanding all-that-is beyond Caesars grasp (A'gripp'ah that's pure satire?)

It comes to me that if we are all connected except by the manly disconnect of fear of authority ... we are distinctly out of touch with literacy and its relative nature to an awate life. Could this arise to a stoop ID idiom ... just another word as related to man ... if word is related to the food of sole integral ... should web' scrooge nour siblings around? Gives a jumped up verse'n of:

Gnoe Thing Comes of Scrooge & Siblings ... oppress the word and you'll become a simple emotional beast, but you could dig naked ... for word is a profound thing denied  by those that think everything's perfect and no community has been oppressed into becoming an underlying power of story!

Pure spirit of satire the devil knows only too well ... as a condemned thinking person under Roman Ruse ... is love or that de deuced from em easily found in a hateful dimension? Theis ole deux makes a fine 4'sem both having 2 side tøem ... and we're taught nothing of this in formal eduaction of any sort ... for authority doesn't really wish you to know ... what going on above that's causing such ripples in humanism (something else hated by Roman authority) and we follow blindly questioning little ... time churns on in Circe 've Us that' EUE ... me, people consider I'm just out-ve ID ... a peace of wonder'n ... like SHOE?

No Ires Mon …

Like webbed trap, all spy ‘din Aerie …

In the duet with tiers …

You’re caught!

ID’ sway in Ka Ba’aL a’ (wondering story) …

Hairy is spoken of as something having roots in de mine!

Perhaps something to do with baleen Eire …

Without kid skin in mind …

A new story about to be writ …

About wondering in un-coven ante dead space …

In the stirring, what’s thunk, latent Eris in …

If you think, something will come of it of transient wisdom …

That can alter as the perspective of Cosmoses …

Lucretia’s father, the devil of thought him self …

Without any space for caring, called Karrie’n space …

Sort of hyperbole for mind …

Elect space in brae ‘n!

ID’s good choice, for such absence …

Makes the heart grow strong as oenon …

A whine in the desert as distant as Hess in the bo’esh!

Just imagine the old ladies node …

ID would happen all along …

As they had feeling, absent in man until immersed …

As common leading into sept’ Dais po’eL …

The point in midst of six characters …

Of a Myers-Briggs construct of the mental vassal!

Which ominous creatures wander about in …

As proto Niche Shadow about …

Top rho vine, shot of li ħ Eire …

Where La Scie was calm before …

Now it can speak of creation …

And confirm much pheshy goan son!

That under Roman Law common space can’t speak of …

Except to whisper of underlying powers (aD’M-ism) …

Ain’t that de deuce inp arse?

A joke plaed on man bi pas in bo’ …

Umh Urs!

There is no escape ‘n except by ‘Erse …

A voice from the land of eschatology …

Speaking of living ends …

That just alter, occupied space …

Such, never completely goes away …

If lying there as foul thought of Ire.

Get that phoqah out of your mind …

As qoליbel, like deme Eire Sea’s of disturbed WesT English …

Claims, are hard-shell Isis lan diss …

Enchanted by being under bi George or Willis …

As bean much scrooge Dover as underlying power …

Of fecundity, an heh just worrying …

About the scarlet bloodline on the sheet …

Made up of collage of a Leif dumb pas in Arabic …

Now chi knows of the consequence of Gael Goth a’ …

Thing (Moorish Laid-heh) that just goes round and round in Circe Elles …

As man passes through, omega …

De sheath just goes on and on Rueben ID in Tue UR, separated feature lofted antes; wee creepers intuit!

Mire hyperbole?

Hyper bo'Lieu ... that is whetted chaos ... underlying forces ... pops eye's from time to time when you've been pointed out for something completely ... un expected in the order of life ... as time to goth Eire ... come again whatjah say? That's the call ...

a commentary from gotquestions.org i feel relates to the issue.

Question: "What are the dangers of postmodernism?"

Answer: Simply put, Postmodernism is a philosophy that affirms no objective or absolute truth, especially in matters of religion and spirituality. When confronted with a truth claim regarding the reality of God and religious practice, Postmodernism’s viewpoint is exemplified in the statement “that may be true for you, but not for me.” While such a response may be completely appropriate when discussing favorite foods or preferences toward art, such a mindset is dangerous when it is applied to reality because it confuses matters of taste and opinion with truth.

The term “Postmodernism” literally means “after Modernism” and is used to philosophically describe the current era which came after the age of Modernism. Postmodernism is a reaction (or perhaps more appropriately, a disillusioned response) to Modernism’s failed promise of using human reason alone to better mankind and make the world a better place. Because one of Modernism’s beliefs was that absolutes did indeed exist, Postmodernism seeks to “correct” things by first eliminating absolute truth and making everything (including the empirical sciences and religion) relative to an individual’s beliefs and desires.

The dangers of Postmodernism can be viewed as a downward spiral that begin with the rejection of absolute truth, which then leads to a loss of distinctions in matters of religion and faith, and finally culminates in a philosophy of religious pluralism that says no faith or religion is objectively true and therefore no one can claim his or her religion is true and another is false.

Dangers of Postmodernism - #1 – Relative Truth

Postmodernism’s stance of relative truth is the outworking of many generations of philosophical thought. From Augustine to the Reformation, the intellectual aspects of Western civilization and the concept of truth were dominated by theologians. But, beginning with the Renaissance periods of the 14th – 17th centuries, thinkers began to elevate humankind to the center of reality. If one were to look at human periods of history like a family tree, the Renaissance would be Modernism’s grandmother and the Enlightenment would be its mother. Renee Descartes’ “I think, therefore I am” personified the beginning of this era. God was not the center of truth any longer – man now was.

The Enlightenment was in a way the complete imposition of the scientific model of rationality upon all aspects of truth and claimed that only scientific data could be objectively understood, defined, and defended. Truth as it pertained to religion was left out and discarded. The philosopher who straddled this epoch’s and Modernism’s contribution to relative truth was the Prussian Immanuel Kant and his work The Critique of Pure Reason, which appeared in 1781. Among other things, Kant argued that true knowledge about God was impossible so he created a divide of knowledge between “facts” and “faith.” According to Kant, “Facts have nothing to do with religion.” The end result was that spiritual matters were assigned to be matters of the heart and just opinion, and only the empirical sciences were allowed to speak of truth. And while Modernism believed in absolutes at least in the area of science, God’s special revelation (the Bible) was evicted from the realm of truth and certainty.

From Modernism came Postmodernism and, whereas Kant marked the philosophical transition from the Enlightenment to Modernism, Friedrich Nietzsche may symbolize the shift from Modernism to Postmodernism. As the patron saint of postmodernist philosophy, Nietzsche held to “perspectivism,” which says that all knowledge (including science) is a matter of perspective and interpretation. Many other philosophers have built upon Nietzsche’s work (e.g. Foucault, Rorty, and Lyotard) and have shared his rejection of God and religion in general. They also rejected any hint of absolute truth, or as Lyotard put it, a rejection of a metanarrative (a truth that transcends all peoples and cultures).

This philosophical march through history against objective truth has resulted in Postmodernism having a complete aversion to any claim to absolutes, with such a mindset naturally painting a huge bull’s-eye on something that declares to be inerrant truth, such as the Bible.

Dangers of Postmodernism - #2 – Loss of Discernment

The great theologian Thomas Aquinas said, “It is the task of the philosopher to make distinctions.” What Aquinas meant is that truth is dependent upon the ability to discern – the capability to distinguish “this” from “that” in the realm of knowledge. However, if objective and absolute truth does not exist, then everything becomes a matter of personal interpretation. To the postmodern individual, the author of a book does not possess the correct interpretation of their work; it is the reader who actually determines what the book really means – a process called deconstruction. And given that there are multiple readers (vs. one author), there are naturally multiple interpretations, with the end result being no universally valid interpretation.

Such a chaotic situation makes it impossible to make meaningful or lasting distinctions between interpretations because there is no standard or benchmark that can be used. This especially applies to matters of faith and religion because the philosophers of the Enlightenment and Modernism had already deposed religion to the compartment of opinion. Such being the case, it naturally follows that attempting to make proper and meaningful distinctions in the area of religion (ones that dare suggest that one belief is right and another invalid) carries no more weight than one person arguing that chocolate tastes better than vanilla. In such situations, it becomes impossible to objectively adjudicate between competing truth claims.

Dangers of Postmodernism - #3 – Pluralism

If absolute truth does not exist, and if there is no way to make meaningful, right/wrong distinctions between different faiths and religions, then the natural conclusion is that all beliefs must be given equal weight and considered valid. The proper term for this practical outworking in Postmodernism is “philosophical pluralism.” With pluralism, no religion has the right to pronounce itself right or true and the other competing faiths false, or even relatively inferior. For those who espouse a philosophical religious pluralism, there is no longer any heresy, except perhaps the view that there are heresies. D. A. Carson underscores conservative evangelical’s concerns about what they see as the dangerous element of pluralism when he says, “In my most somber moods I sometimes wonder if the ugly face of what I refer to as philosophical pluralism is the most dangerous threat to the gospel since the rise of the Gnostic heresy in the second century.”

These progressive dangers of Postmodernism – relative truth, a loss of discernment, and philosophical pluralism – represent real and imposing threats to Christianity because they collectively relegate God’s Word to something that has no real authority over mankind and no ability to show itself as true in a world of competing religious voices. What is Christianity’s response to these challenges?

Response to the Dangers of Postmodernism

It should first be stated that Christianity claims to be absolutely true, claims that meaningful distinctions in matters of right/wrong (as well as spiritual truth and falsehood) exist, and claims to be correct in its claims about God with any contrary claims from competing religions being incorrect. Such a stance provokes cries of “arrogance” and “intolerance” from Postmodernism. However, truth is not a matter of attitude or preference, and when closely examined, the foundations and philosophies of Postmodernism quickly crumble and reveal Christianity’s claims to be both plausible and compelling.

First, Christianity claims that absolute truth exists. In fact, Jesus specifically says that He was sent and born to do one thing: “to testify to the truth” (John 18:37). Postmodernism says that no truth should be affirmed, yet its position is one that is self-defeating – it affirms at least one absolute truth: that no truth should be affirmed. This means that Postmodernism does believe in absolute truth, and such a fact is exemplified by its philosophers who write books stating things they expect their readers to embrace and believe as truth. Putting it simply, one professor has said, “When someone says there is no such thing as truth, they are asking you not to believe them. So don’t.”

Second, Christianity claims that meaningful distinctions exist between the Christian faith and all other beliefs. However, it should be understood that those claiming that meaningful distinctions do not exist between religions are actually making a distinction. They are attempting to showcase a difference in what they believe to be true and the Christian’s truth claims. Postmodernist authors expect their readers to come to the right conclusions about what they have written and will correct those who interpret their work differently than they have intended. Again, their position and philosophy proves itself to be self-defeating because they eagerly make distinctions between what they believe to be correct and what they see as being false.

Finally, Christianity claims to be universally true in what it says regarding man’s lostness before God, the sacrifice of Christ on behalf of fallen mankind, and the separation between God and anyone who chooses not to accept what God says about sin and the need for repentance. When Paul addressed the Stoic and Epicurean philosophers on Mars Hill, he said, “Therefore having overlooked the times of ignorance, God is now declaring to men that all people everywhere should repent” (Acts 17:30, emphasis added). Paul’s declaration was not a “this is true for me, but may not be true for you” statement, but rather an exclusive and universal command (i.e. a metanarrative) from God to everyone. Any postmodernist who says this is false is committing an error against his own pluralistic philosophy that says no faith or religion is incorrect because, once again, he violates his own mandate of saying every religion is equally true.

In the same way that it is not arrogant for a math teacher to insist that 2+2=4 or for a locksmith to insist that only one key will fit a locked door, it is not arrogant for the Christian to stand against Postmodernist thinking and insist that Christianity is true and anything opposed to it is false. Absolute truth does exist, consequences do exist for being wrong, and while pluralism may be desirable in matters of food preferences, it is not so in matters of truth. The Christian is to present God’s truth in love and simply ask any postmodernist who is angered by the exclusive claims of Christianity, “So have I become your enemy by telling you the truth?” (Galatians 4:16).

"God was not the center of truth any longer – man now was."

And in the perspective of St Niche of Cusa: (dark laid-X, that's chi in Greek)

God's heart is everywhere and the soul of it is nowhere ... like a wilderness!

This compares with Caesars' attitude that he was God and had it all in the "box" or contained, isolated, from all else (he's de Bos) a different kind of L'uv as a dark form to cause temptation and fear among the apparantly isolated from the man'god type in essence (ESS-antes). See worldly Gods corrupted the word for isolated purpose as in the story of Jacob the Liar/Lyre ... it's a sad song that common people gets sucked into by god's alternate persona ... isn't that just a metaphorical devil in pure satyr-like form as a man in black that claims to have the secret to all that is ... when such is out of reach of the mortal form?

Can one see the progress of the alteration of word? One has to study the progression of linguistics ... possibly the reason the bible says that the tree of knowledge is e(x)cluded to common people. This is possibly a metaphor of the words of the church fathers that dealt in the depth of word with their scribes (the church fathers were illiterate and had their heads in the fog) and set out a decree that the common subserviant (people/demos, to their perspective) didn't need to know. This perhaps led to I Thessaloneans 5:23 that tickles my fantasies like papillion ... butterflies across de void? Gives one the ithch' to Gnoe all the spectres of word ... in a rainbow of colour so the higher ups could be ignorant to the fact while attempting to build bridges for tolls. The pontiph-type row'n in the tiers of IÐ-alien boot dealing with things even he didn't understand in the field of pas-Zion as he got too far intuit in concubin-ism ... an underlying fact in the roots of the Medicis and Borge giving rise to Cosmos and Lucreta ... mire aberrations of word. Many people will not believe there is communion here ... that it was all platonic ... but look at all the wee ripples that extend from that pho'eL ish light!

One should know abid before the plunge ... thus a medium state here on earth that isn't perfect .. as a thinking dimension ... it has flaws ... observe the À phree Ka'n rift ... between the white and dark rushes ... provides stars aninas Tars in the spatial features beyond ... mire myth as metaphorical of all that underlying power ... hard to dig Eire ... with out balance'd construct based on past Urs and Suck Cessess (light drawn into the dark) an unknown idealism (god) known as soul below the hoary Zoan ... a frigid character that you have to warm to ... cool th'aughts? They's like spy soude in de cold ... match gurls ... inna tangle ... needing some unravelling?

The best is to be burried if we are to continue to stir ... Ba Omi Bug ... insects ... like Ka Rob in beadles ... scrooged teachers ... rab'id without thought nor Ka-raes ... th'eMs holy ... like heh, what'd yah expect from nothing ...

Then why did underlying powers present this to us in this way? perhaps so we would question the script as a L'uv alone is a desperate thing to be cautious about ... one should take care about those without thoughts ... close to psycho pathic, or the other polity pathelogical (painfully logical, suggesting without cares like Shuol-don in the Big Bang Production! It's enough to blow genius away) such grandios stoop Idée .... in the understanding of large flighty words ...

Humanity is not there yet ... just hasn't got it individually ... but collectively it lies hidden ... an underlying power; Oz as the Hebrew story-teller would label ID ... demOz awsome thing when out of control in the growth curve when only thinking of earth riches ... and not a heavely clew. This isolated m'n from the abstract ... a very large mote 've entity of indefinite tensors as held inanimate ... by the actions of mortals when given half a clew ...

And the imaginaed powers would say put a bung in IT, and we get a prime character in The Wizard of ID ... standing drunkenly at the bar ... for the whine is limited ... according to I Timothy 5:23 ... and you've got to wonder about who placed that in the story ... when it appears we should take the plunge into the pool of Joey of what an odd place it is to live in with all the hostility ... isolated from God's world out-there ... shamayim (fluid above as well as below) as a supportive unknown media of the Higgs Bo-Sun ... where like is a chaotic power to the basiscally Black & Ignorant when grasping to love without some thought! Get over it phoqahs ...

Makes a grand basis for bi narae Qod ... or perhaps bi polar action when off on a winger ... like man in a wilderness garden and quite alien to cultivation methods ... even anti-socialistic in a republican empiric mode ... wishing to control the entire collective mind ... one would have to know what's needed ... and the real powers believe simple emotions are best instead of a touch of in verse powers of th'eL'uv word ... containing emotions and intellect ... some real mire for th'omi-Nous to filter through as a Shadow of the former's creation ... have some respect for the past and what it has to offer for future thought. It could require change, coine, a common expression of exchange of desire to tho'T! Chimera to some as the shiva in anticipation of end to the situation of ankh ... a sort of tense string ... holding the hol-E thing together as thong ... in spatial aptitute for the irrational ... something Toby understood here in the mire of the non-sense oviðe!

A metaphorical hint of ovichie ... scratch creation if you can get the hang of it ... gimbled as the Hebrew Sea pooling in a loer pithy space of oles alt ... a Gael of a storm ... in the drift to lower dimensions of dis ole as ID becomes aware of alein senses ... the 6'th finger of God ... a Seth thing ethereal and passing ... highly mote've?

Very little is fixated but the fallout of heaven ... that's isolated peoples ... opposing the genteel and Eire ... as thunk! Underlyen energies as ergs? (phonetic Circus)

In short: Is the word God? It would pause to indeuce athe 'ought ... devoid space where love would call a thought to become eM Brian O'Niche! Crazy Ness of the other kind?

That's alien to those that believe knowledge is evil ... some Sophetic Psyche is required if you get the myth ... it a mindlike drifter ... on the high plains?---Jo'an Din Veer ...