Silly little quiz and it is sad that you might think answering obscur questions is a sign of Christian faith.

 lastpointe I think you're taking it too seriously...emphasis on the word "fun"

Interesting quiz. Here are my results...

"Congratulations! You scored 33 correct out of 50!...

30 - 39: Congratulations! Better informed than most Americans"

Why are those questions obscure?  Are they not part of the word of the creator of the universe?

I never said that answering questions is a sign of christian faith, (as a matter of fact, traditionally the christian faith has squelched asking questions), no, it's just that I think that it is time to realize that this rediculous book which has been exaulted for far too long, needs to viewed as what it really is........the scribblings of primitive, superstitious, ignorant, barbaric, tribalistic, chauvanistic, desert men.

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I got 52%

Star stuff,

This "ridiculous book" as you put it has much to offer.  however, yes , it can be taken to extremes by those who espouse a literal reading of the book.

i guess you are a fundamentalist literal reader.

Perhaps further study of theology and the texts will help you understand the context of the writings.

Though very vocal, the fundamentalist christian that reads the book literally, is one of a small group here in Canada.

Sad little quiz with a biased twist.  BTW, I passed it because I surmised they were taking the information out of context.  I noticed it's sponsored by some organization called, Freedom From Religion".  I'm free from 'religion', but I'm not free from God.  I'm free BECAUSE of God's provision for redemption.  One verse says, "All fat is the Lord's".  I remember one guy who used that verse as a justification of being overweight.  Get a commentary and study the passages within CONTEXT, eh?

The reference to the above is Leviticus 3:16.  Everyone, pack on the pounds!

I got 18/50. It was a stupid quiz though. Knowing useless trivia like that doesn't mean anything. The questions are loaded too, which is pretty stupid. The criticisms of the bible in the explanations of which answers are correct are dumb too. I don't see why anyone who doesn't like the bible would actually take the time to make this quiz and write all the explanations.

I'd have to respectfully disagree killer_rabbit79,  I think that the quiz is revealing of the actual content of a book which has been reveared and place on some sort of authoritative, devine pedestal for far too long.  I don't think calling it a "stupid quiz" is fair, the questions all had correct and incorrect answers to choose from.

Dan Barker put that quiz together.  He was an evangelical pastor for 19 years.  He wrote "Losing Faith in Faith"  and  more recently "Godless".

As to the book called the Bible, it is blasphemy to call it the word of God. It is a book of lies and contradictions, and a history of bad times and bad men. There are but a few good characters in the whole book. (Thomas Paine)

The Old Testament is responsible for more atheism, agnosticism, disbelief - call it what you want - than any book ever written. It has emptied more churches than all the counter attractions of cinema, motorcycle and golf course. (A. A. Milne)

“The Good Book” - one of the most remarkable euphemisms ever coined. (Ashley Montagu)

There is no question that aspects of the bible are no longer in step with the current values. I personally have no problem whatsoever putting much of it aside. At the same time, there are treasures included that give us a glimpse into the cultural and social development of humanity...cms

StarStuff

Do you think that because some of us are "Christians", we also "know the bible", or put it on a pedestal? 
I have never tried to learn all that sort of stuff like that.  Seems to me I've said this once or twice today already. 

Now, where is the beliefnet quiz?   oh, here it is  - belief-o-matic

This has interesting results.

As everyone is at a different place in their lives, anything anybody says on a forum will land on the ears that hear it with no assumed results from the person posting, just the hope for a more rational, reason-based, non-supernatural outlook.  I was steeped in christianity for a long time, and if I appear more robust in my posts, it might be because when the blinders are off, I mean really off, and when one realizes that one was lied to for so long, there is (for me anyways) a certain passion about it.

43 out of 50!  Whooo hoooo!

46.

And, yeah, its mostly trivia. Sadly, the reality is that, taken out of context(s), much of that trivia has been used to do a great deal of damage.

Then, again, there is much in the rest of the library known as "The Bible" that has helped.

r

Certainly this is where much (although not all) of the church has failed.  Leaving people believing that supernatural belief is essential to Christianity has in fact them many people feeling that they were lied to once they move beyond that belief.  We, as the church, should relegate the irrelevant, corporally unanswerable questions such as whether there is "a god" to the dustbin and instead get on with real work of living with love, justice, compassion, kindness.  We should focus on how to improve our ecology, how to ensure that all live with enough food and with dignity.  Let's tackle those questions rather than worrying about whether or not there is a god...cms

Sounds like you'd make a good secular humanist.

I agree but then we have Rotarians and other societies to do this that have charitable status. Why do we also need a church who does good things...but often with strings attached (unlike non-religious charities).  If the religion aspect is not required to do good things then why should I as a taxpayer have to pay for it?  Religion is a lifestyle choice...it's not necessary nor required to function in a modern world.

I certainly do attempt to be the best human that I can be...cms

There isn't a terribly active Rotary Club in my community.  There are several churches assisting others.  Or how about the UCCAN homeless shelter which is the only local charity that will take ANYONE in.  The secular shelters will only take people in that are not high or drunk.  BTW, as a taxpayer you are paying for all social programmes not provided by churches.  If all churches get out of social assistance, then these programmes will need to be funded in other ways.  Feel free to increase your donation now.

Finally, of course, church is a choice.  Why do you wish to take away my choice to be in community with others?...cms

I concede the point.  Of course there are religious organisations that do the jobs that non-religious ones do too.  I guess I'm more concerned with the religious ones that come with "strings" attached like modern day missionaries.

You can't just judge the content of the bible using our culture's moral trends. They had different values in that place and time and it is absurd to think that we should be criticizing them because we do things differently here and now. Not only that, but most of the stuff that was in that quiz was based on stories of mythology, not history. The ancient Jews were most likely aware of this and would not have taken the bible in a literalist context.

The evangelicals are for the most part pretty screwed up, they are losing a lot of members. Fundamentalism in general is the reason so many people are abandoning Christianity right now. It's the reason I abandoned it. I later also learned that the early Christian church actually had completely different values than the Catholic church has now that would probably make Jesus sick to his stomach. Christianity isn't to blame, it's some of the people who have been running the show that have corrupted the church and perverted its original values. I don't think we can blame the bible itself for that.

I don't disagree with you there and would consider this type of coersion to be blackmail - whether it's found in a religious or secular setting. 

It's not about "criticizing them", it's about demonstrating that the book is NOT the word of any god, as is claimed and touted by the vast majority of christendom.

The quiz is biased and one sided. Very unscientific.

Or perhaps the slant of christendom that the media gives.  There is no question that there are many people in many denominations that believe in a literal "word of god".  However there are also many people who see the bible as a collection of books testifying to the experience of certain peoples at certain times.  So rather than painting all with the same brush, it's important to recognize the diversity of understandings.  Until you actually understand some of the variances, your debate tends to be lacking...cms

Star Dust,  I think CJMS may have taken this thread where it needs to go here.

Welcome to WonderCafe, sponsored by the United Church of Canada. 

The bus ad thing, it's to show you we aren't literalist nut jobs.  You've been busy I see, hopefully as you meet the characters that call the cafe home you will see we are a diverse, respectful group.  Watch out though, if you run into a UCC minister, they won't try and convert you.  Believe what you like.  Stop worrying and enjoy life.  We intend to.  My God (as irrational as that may be) won't damn you. 

Exe got 43 out of 50!   Wow!

I thought I was doing pretty good at 31/50.  I didn't notice who had put the quiz toegether or I might have done better - understood their bias.  But then I might have done worse.

I took it as a fun quiz.  The Bible cannot be understood out of context and short quote like these are always out of context.

There may be those as you've described, but my experience is that the latter are few & far between amoungst those who profess to be christians. 

Oy.  I am not painting all with the same brush.  I am directing most of my comments to those who's minds have been turned to stone by their religion.  That sort of zombie-like following of scripture is what I find very prevelant.  I do fully understand that there are varying beliefs all over the map, but why do you wag your finger at me for my chosen targeted audience?

As already stated, I know everyone is at a different place, but would you be frowning at me if I were taking a kindler, gentler approach and thereby missing addressing the fundies?

Others take a harsher approach than I, and that too has it's place:

There may be???  Well the congregation of which I'm a part is comprised almost exclusively of that which I describe (it may actually be 100% but I can't say for sure)  And given that many people on this site are telling you the same thing and they are part of different congregations, I would say that it's really not in question that there are those for whom a fundamentalist belief is not a reality.

And I'm simply directing my comments to you who profess to know what the majority of Christians here believe.

If your argument was the same, I sure would...cms

Star Stuff wrote:

cjms wrote:

Or perhaps the slant of christendom that the media gives.  There is no question that there are many people in many denominations that believe in a literal "word of god".  However there are also many people who see the bible as a collection of books testifying to the experience of certain peoples at certain times.

There may be those as you've described, but my experience is that the latter are few & far between amoungst those who profess to be christians. 

Quote:

So rather than painting all with the same brush, it's important to recognize the diversity of understandings.

Oy.  I am not painting all with the same brush.  I am directing most of my comments to those who's minds have been turned to stone by their religion.  That sort of zombie-like following of scripture is what I find very prevelant.  I do fully understand that there are varying beliefs all over the map, but why do you wag your finger at me for my chosen targeted audience?

Quote:

Until you actually understand some of the variances, your debate tends to be lacking...cms

As already stated, I know everyone is at a different place, but would you be frowning at me if I were taking a kindler, gentler approach and thereby missing addressing the fundies?

Others take a harsher approach than I, and that too has it's place:

 

But it feels like you're looking into a corner & arguing, while we all sit waiting for you to catch up...

Hi - I'd like to introduce myself.  I'm birthstone and I'm a Liberal, even progressive Christian.  I grew up that way, meaning I've been surrounded by such people all my life.  Funny, seems to me the ministers I know were all in school a few decades ago and were learning liberal non-literal Christianity back then.  And wait, even in 1925 when the UCC was formed, it set aside some of the commonly accepted liberal theology just to make peace with the other churches.  

Don't worry- it is no accident that you think most Christians are fundamentalist.  They've spent an awful lot of money, and terrified an awful lot of people into making you think so.  But they aren't what Jesus was about, and nor am I.

If you aren't quite sure what to say, surrounded by liberal Christians, ask the question - what brought you to this understanding?  I ask the same of you.

I'm not sure what you mean there, could you kindly clarify that bit?

It looks as though Birthstone may not be online right now.  I believe that she is trying to convey the need for and benefit of conversation rather than simply believing in assumptions.  She can, of course correct me if I am mistaken...cms

I think birthstone is trying to show you that for the most part christians are not the ravign fundamentalists that you are thinking of.

i know no christians who are like that, never have.

if you would like to talk about what some of us think then lets talk.

i am not sure who all these christians you know are but they are a small minority.  granted in the usa they are a very vocal minority

just looked at your profile.  i see you are canadian and that you are now not a believer in God and Jesus.

not sure what you mean by a "real" christian but i am assuming that you were raised in a very fundamentalist family and that they have only one way of being christian.

sadly some folks think that way.

and yet jesus never asked us to be the same as each other.

in fact we are to be the body of the church.  A body is a complicated organism with m,any different parts that work together in many different ways.  that is what we are to be as christians.

a community that embraces our differences, that can see the merit and benefits in all our parts.  that values the contribution of the parts.  we are not to be the smae.

each part of the body views the journey differently.  just like your own body.

if you are walking barefoot over a gravel road, your feet have a defferent experience on the trip than your hands do. 

you say you no longer believe in an imaginary friend and that is up to you.

I don't think of god or jesus as imaginary friends.  jesus is a real friend to me.  one that i can share my inner thougth with.  sure we don't have coffee together but then i don't have coffee with my friend in california either.

i guess it depends on your definition of a friend

..but you could have coffee with your friend in California.

and one day i'll have that  'coffee" with jesus too.  i'll never likely see that friend again.  is she still a friend?  of course.  visual connection isn't required.  so why is it required here?

never seen you either?  do you exist?

That may very well be, but the beliefs of a moderate are equally delusional.

That's great - lucky you.  I know many.  Let's be clear, I'd prefer a moderate over a fundie, but just because one is a moderate, but still believes in some sort of father figure in the heavens, or some sanitized version of the supernatural, might mean that further exploration is due.

Again, that is not my experience.  I have been to the States and communicate with many Americans on-line and it is shocking to hear what many really believe.

Hello there Star Stuff, fellow bit of universe exploring itself. Welcome to paradise (or some aspect of it, anyway).

Welcome to the WC, which is a place where we practice what our mother's taught us: playing *well with* others, as opposed to playing *with* others. If you're here to genuinely connect with people, which requires vulnerability and taking risks, then a bigger welcome. If you are here to proove something, want to engage in philosophical one-upmanship, or are in your 'Young Turk' stage of life, then, there are lots of other places on the 'net that would fit your bill :3

Meself, I think the Bible has been co-opted by two groups. Those who take it literally (and if anyone has any other opinion, then they are, by definition, delusional and/or wrong) and those who think it is 'just stories'. Both groups are, I think, missing out on the Book's richness that folks like Messr Dawkins think is important to read.

I take the tack that the Bible is a Tale of the Tribe, which is a collection of the then ancient people's imaginations...a particular theory that I am very prone to is that the OT/the Torah was written to get people beyond G_d (beyond the worship of idols and into "LOVE EACH OTHER, DARNIT!!!").

This fits in with my leanings toward thinking that all of us are, essentially, story machines. We create maps of the outer world and project them outside ourselves and call them 'This is the Real World'. Some of these maps are still affecting us to this day -- like Aristotle and Decartes.

So, what we have going on with the "New Atheism", I think, is essentially some people going "My Imagination is the Right Way of Doing Things" and trying to spread it. Same with the fundies.

Which is okie if it is consensual (infinite games and jazz) rather than non-consensual (finite games).

Onward the Imagination,

Inannawhimsey

ps. How well did you score on the quiz?

I scored exactly how I wanted to :3

Cjms, 

Speaking for myself, I would not be interested in a church that decided to relegate the question of God's existence to the dustbin.  Nor would I be interested in a church that did not concern itself with love, justice, compassion and kindness. 

Is there any reason why church cannot address both sides of the equation?  I understand the centrality of values in your system of thought, but I think you are setting up an "either/ or scenario" with your comments.  Religious faith is more of a "both/ and" for many Christians.

Hi Atheisto. 

Agreed.  Just wanted to mention that as a person of faith, I agree with your point here.  Thanks.

Hi Star Stuff. 

You have started an interesting thread.  I scored 9 on the quiz. 

This did not surprise me, because my liberal United Church upbringing did not expose me to the more problematic aspects of the Bible.  This is considered by some to be problematic in itself, of course. 

 I'm back - I was lazy and didn't use quotes - Cjms was correct.

Star Stuff,

Ask us, "how did you come to understand faith?'  Here is a good one:  "Why did you reject the fundamentalist doctrine and still end up Christian?"

Then we'll answer, and  you can offer a comment or 2 without being judgemental..., and we'll try another question or 2-  that's called conversation.

Did you, by the way, feel angry that you had been lied to?"  Or was it more like you felt your congregation were ridiculous?"  Are you sad that your parents had those beliefs, or angry?

I know this was directed at Star Stuff but I thought I would add my own experience.  I realised I was an atheist at junior school.  I always read a lot and started to ask a lot of questions early on.  I remember the day that I wondered why we were having group prayers in school and what possible benefit there could be.  From that day I refused to move my lips to a useless chant and I started to wonder why other people didn't see the futility of it.  Over the years I still went to church occasionally when required to so as not to cause a fuss but later on I flat out refused as I saw no benefit to it and it was a collosal waste of my time.  Besides, I had never ever actually found any church service remotely interesting at all.  No words of wisdom were ever passed in those services that I couldn't get from elsewhere and in more detail and by more qualified people and without any supernatural mumbo jumbo.  I eventually got thrown out of scouts for refusing to go to church parades as I didn't think that had anything to do with the organisation and it was more to do with some ignorant old woman forcing her ideals on us.  I used to be quiet on my atheism until I went to University where the more frevent religious types were far from quiet.  I shared an apartment where my roommate had regular bible meetings that I used to occasionally attend and ask a lot of questions (and receive practically no useful answers  by the way).  Then I amused myself by asking the campus crusade for christ types lots of questions too, same with the missionaries that would come to my door.

Now at the position I am at I can see that religion hinders progress.  Religion is ancient ceremony developed from primitive minds depending mainly on peer pressure to continue the tradition, progress is modern, flexible, testing and continually advancing at an amazing rate.  I encourage my students to always ask questions and to examine evidence thoroughly before making assumptions or stating facts.  I simply ask that others do the same with reference to this question of religion as I am sure that if thoroughly examined no rational person being true to themselves cannot walk away without at least thinking "perhaps there is no god".  That is a start.

ATHEISTO: I simply ask that others do the same with reference to this question of religion as I am sure that if thoroughly examined no rational person being true to themselves cannot walk away without at least thinking "perhaps there is no god".  That is a star

And we would ask the same of you "at least thinking "perhaps there is a god". That is a start"

Hey, P3.  I specifically said corporally answerable because I believe that we all have our own answer.  A church will hopefully spend time conversing about what god can mean for it but when we stop church there, the world is in trouble.  Because ultimately the church cannot answer the question and yet it often spends so much time and money attempting to do so.  IMO, have the questions and the conversations but in the end, get working towards a better world...cms

We do Crazyheart.  Most atheists have asked this question and come up with the answer from verifiable facts that conclude that there probably is not a god.  That the probability of there being a god is so infinitessimally small as to be not worth bothering about to be honest.  We're not manufacturing facts or anything of the sort, these things are out there for all to see and come not from parties interested in debunking religion but from by-products of historical research or from scientific research.  So yes, we have thought it, we have to to even ask the question in the first place.

Thanks for asking.  Briefly, I never really felt angry, just miffed that I was given a diet of reality junk food.  My parents did not have an education, and embraced an incredibly narrow view of things through the tiny slot of their christian beliefs. They did the best with the tools that they had, and I don't resent them for my upbringing, I just wish that I had more enlightened parents who would have shown me the world, instead of an impoverished view of reality wrapped in the nonsensical supernatural belief system of christianity.

Did I feel that the congregation were rediculous?  At the time, no. (I left the church 22 years ago).  At the time, I was of the same beliefs, but when I started to apply the tools of reason, the entire thing collapsed.  The beliefs of christianity (and I don't mean the "christianity light" that many on this forum seem to hang on to), just do not map onto reality.  It is either true, or it is not, and I find the latter to be patently clear.  On the few occasions I have been in a church setting in the last 22 years, I am frankly shocked at how powerful herd mentality is.  I'm not going to mince words here, I really do find that the church goers I know are the most intellectually dishonest people I have ever met.  The suggestion to critically analyze their beliefs is met with that "dear-in-the-headlights" look. This, I have come to feel, is due to the high level of investment that they have in their beliefs.  Just think about it, you'd have to tell all of your friends, family, children, congregation, etc, that you have "honestly, critically and skeptically looked at the christian belief system and found it to be untenable."  Not bloody likely.  Ironically, I feel that this might come down to pride as well.  I call it ironic because we all know how pride is viewed within christianity.

Am I sad that my parents had those beliefs, or angry?  I'd say mostly sad, (not that I am sad in my life - I am amped!) but there is some anger when I see how the belief system that they embraced really sucked a lot of joy out of their lives - especially my mother.  The version of christianity she got from her parents was one of fear, shame and guilt, and their lives were really defined by what they didn't do.  And before you think of it, it was not because of this particular crappy brand of christianity that I abandoned my faith, it was because the beliefs of the supernatural, or a god, Jesus, bible, etc, just fails on every level for me.  It is either true, or not true, and for me, it would be an act of intellectual suicide to embrace such nonsense.

(I will update my profile sometime soon).

Thanks.

Hey cjms,  Yes, working towards a better world and conversing about what god can mean are both important in church life.