Why is it that we human beings can be so deeply affected by beauty in any of our senses? 

---

That's a good one Mike. I would also ask why different people find such different things to be beautiful.

Beauty's everywhere: one's of life's most wonderfull challenges is is learning to discern it. Habits are very heavy-handed suppressors of beauty and joy. We can learn a lot from others' sense of beauty… it invariably widens the boundaries of our own.

question #1

 

⁴¹ While the Pharisees were gathered together, Jesus asked them, ⁴² “What do you think about the Messiah? Whose son is he?”

   “The son of David,” they replied.

 ⁴³ He said to them, “How is it then that David, speaking by the Spirit, calls him ‘Lord’? For he says,

   ⁴⁴ “‘The Lord said to my Lord:
   “Sit at my right hand
until I put your enemies
   under your feet.”’^[e]

   ⁴⁵ If then David calls him ‘Lord,’ how can he be his son?”

(Matthew 22:41-45)

 

question #2

Then what will you think if you see the Son of Man ascend to heaven again?(John 6:62)

 

Who was Jesus Barabbas...and what is his symbolic significance as compared to Jesus Christ? My understanding is he was a rogue character, shady...but the people called on him to be let go as opposed to Jesus of Nazareth who had done no wrong, to be crucified.

 

 

I've always wondered what the early church wrote back in their letters to Paul.

 

⁶ Now it was the custom at the Feast to release a prisoner whom the people requested. ⁷ A man called Barabbas was in prison with the insurrectionists who had committed murder in the uprising. ⁸ The crowd came up and asked Pilate to do for them what he usually did.

 ⁹ “Do you want me to release to you the king of the Jews?” asked Pilate, ¹⁰ knowing it was out of envy that the chief priests had handed Jesus over to him. ¹¹ But the chief priests stirred up the crowd to have Pilate release Barabbas instead.(Mark 15:6-11)

²⁰ But the chief priests and the elders persuaded the crowd to ask for Barabbas and to have Jesus executed. (Matthew 27:20)

 

²³ But with loud shouts they insistently demanded that he be crucified, and their shouts prevailed. ²⁴ So Pilate decided to grant their demand. ²⁵ He released the man who had been thrown into prison for insurrection and murder, the one they asked for, and surrendered Jesus to their will. (Luke 23-23-25)

 

 

 

Why do some Christians see Jesus as and kind and merciful and forgiving, and others particularly cling to the hope that He will come back to exact vengeance on their enemies and can hardly wait? Is this the sword Jesus was saying He brings and not peace...why the difference between this view of Jesus and the peaceful, merciful view of Jesus?

 

If we have opened our  hearts to Him isn't he here, with us, now?...and didn't he tell us to "Love God and Love our Neighbours?" ...and is that why God's children are reminded, in the Beatitudes, to be peacemakers?

Can a minister please give me their interpretation of Luke 3:22-38?

It talks about a family tree tracing from Jesus' baptism, all the way back to Adam, and ultimately, God. I find this interesting and full of metaphor. I wonder if anyone else is catching onto the same metaphor here.

 

This is from Eerdman's Dictionary of the Bible...

 

"The 'notorious prisoner' (Matt. 27:16) whom Pilate released to the crowd at Passover instead of Jesus. He is also described as a bandit (Gk. Iestes; John 18:40) and one imprisoned with the rebels who had committed murder during an insurrection....

 

Some manuscripts of Matt 27: 16-17 give Barabbas' name as Jesus Barabbas. While this seems to be the preferred reading, which some scribes probably omitted out of reverence for Jesus Christ, several questions remain. Did Matthew invent the common name Iesous to create a contrast between Jesus Barabbas and Jesus who is called the Christ? Or was he following at this point a source not used by Mark? If so, did someone in Matthew's source tradition invent the name? Because we cannot answer those questions with certainty, it is impossible to know whether Barabbas was actually named Jesus."

 

Thanks rhbilly. I know what the Bible says. I guess I was hoping for more of a discussion about meaning as others understand it.

 

That's a passage I've always read literally. What metaphor do you see?

What happened to Jesus in his "missing" years (missing from the Biblical texts)? Where'd he go, what was he doing?

...so many questions!

 

Well, this is risky to put out there, people will jump on me maybe...but the literary/ metaphorical significance I see lies in the fact that that was the place, right after his baptism in particular, that was chosen to trace his ancestry back to Adam, and God. To me it speaks of a connection between Jesus and Adam and God, and of a connection between us and Jesus and God...and the placement in the Bible makes it seem like it Jesus' divinity, when the dove descended upon him, was affirmed at His baptism.

Hi Mike paterson -- I believe Mike Beauty is not seen through the eyes of man , But only when you look at it through the eyes of God. My Brother has told me God showed him pillers that he could not see the top of.I have been showen rooms that I could not, see the walls in.I'v seen roads that shine like glass.I'v seen Beauty in men and woman that has made me cry.There is only one who can help you see Mike and I believe He is more than man.Many men and women , have tryed in there words to explain that what God made. They have fell short, why would I asked someone who can only see ,that what I can see myself. Why not go to the one who made it , and see it through the eyes, of the artist .

Okay, that's interesting. Are you suggesting that we are divine?

Well, we are God's children..so, that in it's own way is divine.

I always thought everyone traces their ancestry back to God? Aren't we all children of God? Weren't we all created by the ultimate creator? And, if non-duality, or the unity between opposites, is the ultimate truth (as it appears to be), then we all can join Jesus in saying: "I and the father are one."

 

And if Adam is the father of our species, then we all descended from Adam.

--Hi ---Kimmio --You need not worry how others feel about what you write. These are your Beliefs and you can say what you like. No mater who dose, or who don't agree , besides I'v seen you write . You can hold your own. God bless -----airclean33

 

That's kinda where I was going I think....so we can see ourselves in Jesus and Jesus in ourselves through the verses...and not see him as an idol... appears to me to be the intent of the passages....but others might disagree.

Yes you are right Arminius,, But you must remember The first Adam didn't make it. Thats why the secound , Adam had to come.

My understanding is he was a rogue character, shady...but the people called on him to be let go as opposed to Jesus of Nazareth who had done no wrong, to be crucified.

 

as for the meaning, It guess we could consider the people had a opportunity to chose Christ , the crowd, stirred up by the chief priests to release barabass and influened them to crucify Jesus, Pilate wanting to satify the crowd released barabbas and handed him over to be cruified.

 

⁹ “Do you want me to release to you the king of the Jews?” asked Pilate, ¹⁰ knowing it was out of self-interest that the chief priests had handed Jesus over to him. ¹¹ But the chief priests stirred up the crowd to have Pilate release Barabbas instead.

 ¹² “What shall I do, then, with the one you call the king of the Jews?” Pilate asked them.

 ¹³ “Crucify him!” they shouted.

 ¹⁴ “Why? What crime has he committed?” asked Pilate.

   But they shouted all the louder, “Crucify him!”

 ¹⁵ Wanting to satisfy the crowd, Pilate released Barabbas to them. He had Jesus flogged, and handed him over to be crucified.(Mark 15:9-15)

 

I think that we could consider that it was not barabbas directly that mattered but maybe his character,as written there as murderer and insurrectionists,  seemingly during a uprising (how long was barabbas in prison for?)

we can consider that Jesus took his place , If it had been a innocent man unknown and not Jesus, barabbas may not have been released.

 

as far as barabbas directly relating to fullfilling a prophecy i, im not aware of any, are you?

 

If Adam was our father. If Adam, the first man who existed according to the second Creation-story in the Bible, actually even existed. The first Creation-story makes no direct mention of him.

David was once know as A'Donis ... a beauty carved in stone where God at first planted some original thoughts to get the beast going. It had difficulty with evolution of learning to be sensitive to the surroundings (sometimes known as intellect) then sometimes just a faint ecco (somewhat Gnome-ich). Kant called it numinous ... what Joseph Smith called moro-nich! Didn't wishto know but had desires in the underlying factors of the support system ...

 

It later became what has come to be known as "beautiful mind syndrome" that travels with man but is often substituted by a mon'God called Caesar who wanted no thoughts ... just what he wished ... which was to know nothing ... and look at the history books if you wish details of the anti-Christ called Caesar! He was against any enlightenment and is heavily present today in a social order bent to secrecy and sacred Ness about knowing nothing ... innocence is the word! Archetype doesn't know it is intellectual ... thus best in abstract colour ... a hue monis tickler for chaos of the other kind ...

 

Is that a syndrome on the other's Ide? Whats a bump on one side a pit on the other! Maybe a dimple if taken in the porper attitude of scratch creation ...

 

That's all folks the essential nature of God as father and mother of soul and spirit ... duality is gone ... in its place a substitutional devil. Once that is planted in a person's mind it is difficult to change (leaving us with a feeling of Guilt, guild, or just being gelded; losing the use of the largest gonad) thus the metaphor of wee hard spots ... that you be anonymous pseudonyms for just about anything according to Shakespearean social order that knew the words of the time ... and what they didn't mean ... social phoqah order ... coine stories have a lot moor tøem than the mortal portion is aware of ... yah have to get rite into IT ... the Bath of great wadis ... dry pits? Leads to androgynous curiousity ... business with other's innards ... eviscearal feelings ... that's gutte eh? Sometimes leaving you sic ... or approximately pregnant with an idiom ... let it fly ... as divers tongues ... Cat'anein tales ... just short of tense as fore plae ... sect'doubt in ankh? A tight diphthong is best ... difficult to pluck ...

According to Hindu mythology, "Manu" was the first man. And the Sanskrit verb "to manu" means "to create," and the noun "manu" means "creator."

 

I interpret this to mean that the ultimate creator created man in its image, as a creator. The bible says much the same.

I'm not aware rhbilly, of barabbas fulfilling a specific prophesy...but it does make think of the unfair treatment of the oppressed and the reverence much of society gives to "bully" types, or even "anti-heros"--like Clint Eastwood playing  Dirty Harry for example, who use violence to exact 'justice'. That's what came to mind for me just now. ;)

 

Yes, Kimmio, that's were you were going. We posted at the same time, and I didn't see your post until after I had posted mine.

 

Yes, we are divine, but it took Jesus to remind us of that, and it takes Jesus in us to keep reminding ourselves of it, and think and act accordingly.

 

 

Jesus is the Son of God, the Christ, the Messiah, the Lamb of God.

 

Yes, we partake in Spirituality as children of God,  we are not  the one and only Son of God, the Christ.

 

you wrote:"

Weren't we all created by the ultimate creator?"

 

In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.(John 1:1)

 

Arminius, dont limit Jesus to his birth of Mary, as Messiah, Christ was before that point in time. Jesus was born of a virgin.

 

there is a difference between 'children of God'  , Son of God, the Christ, Messiah.

 

think of it like this, Christ is God's one and only Son before the world was, we are not.

 

you wrote:"

Weren't we all created by the ultimate creator?"

 

² He was with God in the beginning. ³ Through him all things were made; without him nothing was made that has been made. ⁴ In him was life, and that life was the light of all mankind. ⁵ The light shines in the darkness, and the darkness has not overcome^[a] it. (John 1:2-5)

 

There is one who is like the Son of God.

¹ This Melchizedek was king of Salem and priest of God Most High. He met Abraham returning from the defeat of the kings and blessed him, ² and Abraham gave him a tenth of everything. First, the name Melchizedek means “king of righteousness”; then also, “king of Salem” means “king of peace.” ³ Without father or  mother, without genealogy, without beginning of days or end of life, resembling the Son of God, he remains a priest forever. (Hebrews 7:1-3)

 

 

again not us.

 

 

²⁴ but because Jesus lives forever, he has a permanent priesthood. ²⁵ Therefore he is able to save completely^[c] those who come to God through him, because he always lives to intercede for them. (Hebrews 7:24-25)

 

¹ Now the main point of what we are saying is this: We do have such a high priest, who sat down at the right hand of the throne of the Majesty in heaven, ² and who serves in the sanctuary, the true tabernacle set up by the Lord, not by a mere human being.  ³ Every high priest is appointed to offer both gifts and sacrifices, and so it was necessary for this one also to have something to offer. ⁴ If he were on earth, he would not be a priest, for there are already priests who offer the gifts prescribed by the law. ⁵ They serve at a sanctuary that is a copy and shadow of what is in heaven. This is why Moses was warned when he was about to build the tabernacle: “See to it that you make everything according to the pattern shown you on the mountain.”^[a] (Hebrews 8:1-5)

 

¹¹ But when Christ came as high priest of the good things that are now already here,^[a] he went through the greater and more perfect tabernacle that is not made with human hands, that is to say, is not a part of this creation. ¹² He did not enter by means of the blood of goats and calves; but he entered the Most Holy Place once for all by his own blood, thus obtaining^[b] eternal redemption. ¹³ The blood of goats and bulls and the ashes of a heifer sprinkled on those who are ceremonially unclean sanctify them so that they are outwardly clean. ¹⁴ How much more, then, will the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered himself unblemished to God, cleanse our consciences from acts that lead to death,^[c] so that we may serve the living God! (Hebrews 9:11-14)

 

 

There is only one Christ

 

So if your question is to lead to  ,if we can obtain equality to Christ in a Messianic mannner or Spiritual understanding , then i submit the answer that end is, no.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Given a dynamic, ever-changing world of such diversity, in a dynamic universe of such complex harmonies, how likely is it that a creator “god” would expect or be delighted by orthodoxy or universal agreement in belief systems among creatures of consciousness seeking to celebrate, approach or deepen experience of the “divine” and of "creation"?

 

rhbilly: What do you make of psalm 82:6? and John 10:34?

The Christ came to testify to the truth.

"You are a king, then!" said Pilate. Jesus answered, "You are right in saying I am a king. In fact, for this reason I was born, and for this I came into the world, to testify to the truth. Everyone on the side of truth listens to me."(John 18:37)

God instructed him on what to say, and how to say.

For I did not speak of my own accord, but the Father who sent me commanded me what to say and how to say it.(John 12::49)

 

I will raise up for them a prophet like you from among their brothers; I will put my words in his mouth, and he will tell them everything I command him.(Deutoronomy 18:18)

 

ill share another verse to consider.

 

I tell you the truth, we speak of what we know, and we testify to what we have seen, but still you people do not accept our testimony.(John 3:11)

 

God wants you to listen to Jesus words

 

.Then a cloud appeared and enveloped them, and a voice came from the cloud: "This is my Son, whom I love. Listen to him!"(Mark 9:7)

 

the Holy Spirit guided his teachings to be preserved for us.

 

But the Counselor, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in my name, will teach you all things and will remind you of everything I have said to you.(John 14:26)

 

Jesus was aware of much.

 

¹⁰ Aware of this, Jesus said to them, “Why are you bothering this woman? She has done a beautiful thing to me. ¹¹ The poor you will always have with you,^[a] but you will not always have me. ¹² When she poured this perfume on my body, she did it to prepare me for burial. ¹³ Truly I tell you, wherever this gospel is preached throughout the world, what she has done will also be told, in memory of her.”(Matthew 26:10-13)

 

 

 

 

 

 

I don't know why when I read the Bible I interpet it the way I do (it just dawns on me) and you interpret it the way you do and  Arminius interprets it the way he does...why is that? It's good to not be too certain that we are right.

Well, rhbilly, maybe not outright equality with Jesus Christ, but coming as close as possible to the Christ understanding is a noble goal, eh?

 

Can't everyone aspire to be a priest in the spirit of Melchizedek? Doesn't the internal or spiritual commitment to the spirit of Melchizedek mean that we belong to the informal "Order of Melchizedek?"

 

 

he did say that to his opposers, and they wanted to seize him, i think they understood what he meant, do you?

he  does not mean that he is not Christ ,Gods one and only Son, the Messiah, the Lamb of God.

 

he is, we are not.

 

Agreed.

 

 

So then... where were we...?

No, we are not the one and only Son of God...but we are to pick up our crosses and follow him.

 

Well said sister. We are to live according to the law of love.

you wrote:"Well, rhbilly, maybe not outright equality with Jesus Christ, but coming as close as possible to the Christ understanding is a noble goal, eh?"

If that understanding is in opposition of Christs words then you may want to consider if it is actually "Christ understanding', make sense?

 

Can't everyone aspire to be a priest in the spirit of Melchizedek?

Which is not obtaining equality with Christ. Melchizedek is not equal to Christ. we are not equal to Christ.

Doesn't the internal or spiritual commitment to the spirit of Melchizedek mean that we belong to the informal "Order of Melchizedek?"

it is not informal.

again, does not bring us to equality to Christ.`

 

Christ is high priest.

 

you cannot sit , nor can Melchizedek, sit in his place.

¹ Now the first covenant had regulations for worship and also an earthly sanctuary. ² A tabernacle was set up. In its first room were the lampstand and the table with its consecrated bread; this was called the Holy Place. ³ Behind the second curtain was a room called the Most Holy Place, ⁴ which had the golden altar of incense and the gold-covered ark of the covenant. This ark contained the gold jar of manna, Aaron’s staff that had budded, and the stone tablets of the covenant. ⁵ Above the ark were the cherubim of the Glory, overshadowing the atonement cover. But we cannot discuss these things in detail now.

 ⁶ When everything had been arranged like this, the priests entered regularly into the outer room to carry on their ministry. ⁷ But only the high priest entered the inner room, and that only once a year, and never without blood, which he offered for himself and for the sins the people had committed in ignorance. ⁸ The Holy Spirit was showing by this that the way into the Most Holy Place had not yet been disclosed as long as the first tabernacle was still functioning. ⁹ This is an illustration for the present time, indicating that the gifts and sacrifices being offered were not able to clear the conscience of the worshiper. ¹⁰ They are only a matter of food and drink and various ceremonial washings—external regulations applying until the time of the new order.(Hebrew 9:1-10)

 

you will not be high priest.

 

But then there is also the term "The Body of Christ" used to refer to Christ's followers, the Church...so if we together are the Body of Christ following his way, with the Holy Spirit guiding us, what might that mean if we all actually did act accordingly? Could it be transformative in the world? Christ manifest in the world?

Its gotta make you stop and think ... but according to those that follow mortal Gods ... that would be a sin!

 

How would God deal with this ... break thoughts up into we bits and spread them around ... let the smart one's below that didn't wish it known ... put it all together ...

 

Arm would that be integral or just unity? I doubt if we could get there from here. There must be at least another side to this Torah ... 

 

And how! The Spirit-fruits would transition us from hatred to love, sorrow to joy, war to peace, anxiety to patience, hostility to kindness, evil to goodness, treachery to faithfulness, harshness to gentleness, and sin to self-control.

yes, follow him. how perfectly fitting.

 

 ⁸ “But you are not to be called ‘Rabbi,’ for you have one Teacher, and you are all brothers. ⁹ And do not call anyone on earth ‘father,’ for you have one Father, and he is in heaven. ¹⁰ Nor are you to be called instructors, for you have one Instructor, the Messiah.(Matthew 23:8-10)

 

 

 

 

I think it meant that Jesus was telling them not to let the status of such titles go to their heads and remember who they serve. My understanding is that the Pharisees of the day proudly paraded around in their finery and preporting to have authority, chastising those who did not follow the letter of the law the way they dictated should be done...and Jesus was saying that's not what his disciples should aspire to.

 

I like this Old Testament verse, Micah 6:8:

He has shown you, O mortal, what is good.
   And what does the LORD require of you?
To act justly and to love mercy
   and to walk humbly^[a] with your God.

 

Nicely said.

My question would be - Why is it possible for absolutely anyone, of any or no religion, to have a transformative experience?  This seems to show that transformation doesn't depend on any teaching of Christianity or any other religion.   

kay,

 

 

We can easily say that nothing is impossible with God.

 

God sent his Son into the world, his message is for humanity from the Father.

 

²¹ For just as the Father raises the dead and gives them life, even so the Son gives life to whom he is pleased to give it. ²² Moreover, the Father judges no one, but has entrusted all judgment to the Son, ²³ that all may honor the Son just as they honor the Father. Whoever does not honor the Son does not honor the Father, who sent him.(John 5:21-23)

 

 

Jesus puts a emphasis on his disciples making disciples of all nations and bringing the good news to the world.

 

²⁸ Then they asked him, “What must we do to do the works God requires?”

 ²⁹ Jesus answered, “The work of God is this: to believe in the one he has sent.”(John 6:28-29)

"My prayer is not for them alone. I pray also for those who will believe in me through their message,(John 17:20)

 

In learning and growing to follow him, we should consider what he asks of his disiples.

 

 

wether we believe in God and hear Christs words is spoken of.

 

.⁴⁷ “If anyone hears my words but does not keep them, I do not judge that person. For I did not come to judge the world, but to save the world. ⁴⁸ There is a judge for the one who rejects me and does not accept my words; the very words I have spoken will condemn them at the last day. ⁴⁹ For I did not speak on my own, but the Father who sent me commanded me to say all that I have spoken. ⁵⁰ I know that his command leads to eternal life. So whatever I say is just what the Father has told me to say.”(John 12:47-50)

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

you wrote:"

I think it meant that Jesus was telling them not to let the status of such titles go to their heads and remember who they serve."

 

He actually is saying, dont be called by those titles. furthermore he says you have one instructor the Messiah.

 

I know you may then refer to his commission to teach all nations.

 

so teach all nations, dont be called teacher.

 

truly, we learn from God.

 

It is written in the Prophets: 'They will all be taught by God.' Everyone who listens to the Father and learns from him comes to me.(John 6:45)

 

But why does he not want us to be called teacher?

Again, I think it's because he  wants us to be humble not let worldly titles go to our heads and forget who we serve. To me, he said it because it meant something that he wanted us to learn.

where were we? exploring questions and answers.

 

I was trying to express the distinction of Christ before his birth of Mary as relevant to his unique divinity. It is not simply a matter of Jesus as a man learning and achieving a "Christ understanding'   to reach his Spiritual understanding as Jesus Christ he had after his birth of Mary.