They shouldn't be worried. It's biblical. ;)

I've been saying much of the same on this site since I got here. Like it or not, religion is competing in a marketplace of ideas, and it's losing. Predictably, I think.

We see the results on this site in the violent thrashings of the remnants of stubborn and uneducated belief, incredulous that people don't believe. How could we not?!? Vague threats are repeated, and laughed to scorn. Nobody under the age of 40 buys it any more. We came of age with the computer and eventually the Internet. We've been exposed to all the arguments and religious battles. Religion has for more than 20 years now been losing more than it gains in people, respect, and influence, and the divide is only growing.

Now that this segment of the population is in the minority for the first time in their lives, and laws are being passed that go against everything they've known or believed in, they think it's a war on religion, which really means a war on their brand of Christianity. In attacking secular laws and ethics, whether they know it or not, in many cases they're attacking their own children.

The cat is out of the bag, and the horse has left the barn. The article puts it better than I can, but, as I've oft repeated, the Internet is where religion goes to die.

Hi

The Internet is a medium, its not the message. Well, I suppose for people who 'work' the Internet, the medium is the message as far as their work is concerned.

The death of religion has been bruited abroad for centuries and millennia.. its still here. It will always be here. The real question is only: What kind do we want? Atheists are on a fool's errand in promoting atheism. True atheists just leave it at that. They know what they know and that is it. They don't go 'religous' and become zealots --- there is no reason to do so. As for all the babble about the damage religion does, it was repeated at the started of every new religion and denomination in regards to the old. Some people confuse religion and politics. They think the former is the latter ... but if it walks like duck, and quacks like a duck, and swims like a duck: its a duck. A lot of political and social controling, has clothed itself in religious garb to suit their purpose. 

Religion is about truth. The truly religious do not fear truth. Truth has caused Christians to grow and develop and evolve for centuries, it will continue to do so. The Internet will further refine the truth ... actually it will make more and better religious (i.e. spiritual) people, with a broader and deeper understanding of God and God-in-human terms (i.e. Christ). As scripture would have it, truth will set you free. The Internet will drive a deeper and more intense personal spirituality not founded on superstition or carnal magic, or someone else's authority.

As I said in earlier post, the young will find their way ... too bad I will not see as far as they will. Give me a handful or truly spiritual people over 10,000 adherents of a religion, who remain grounded in temporal, merely material life.

I agree with the article, and with chansen. And I think that we, the wondercafe community, are one of the internet communities that are ushering in the post-religious age.

Could this be why the United Church is shutting us down? Or shutting us up?

I think the UCCan would do well to join the post-religious trend. This trend, I think, will not lead to a less spiritual but a more spiritual society, at least in my definition of spirituality.

An interesting article.

Here are some ways I have used the internet...

Inviting friends to church events via facebook.

Taking a Christian university course on the biblical book of 1 Kings from a university roughly 800 miles away.

Keeping in contact with my pastor and others in my church. Important to me as a deacon.

Learning about the belief statements of my own and other churches on respective websites.

Keeping in touch with Christian friends, family members, and professors via facebook and LinkedIn.

Keeping up-to-date on church, university, and seminary events via my school's website. These have included open houses, preaching conferences, meetings to discuss missionary opportunities etc.

Learning about ministry events in Toronto via facebook.

Watching/reading sermons via youtube and sermoncentral.org.

Reading and listening to various translations of the Bible on sites such as biblegateway.

Being inspired by Christian music on youtube.

Hm... seems someone forgot to send all the church youth groups, college & career groups, and young marrieds groups the memo to stop and desist. 

I am deeply conscious of human being as the source and substance of hope in and through the natural order. Saying this, I want to be clear that there is no supernatural bias at work in me. What matters most is within each and every single one of us and has no existence outside of our existence.

Let me affirm complete agreement with all insight and effort devoted to purging the superflous, the spurious and the destructive properties of religion misused and abused.

I know the record of travesty undertaken and authorized by religious persons and groups and accept all criticism leveled at that history of misuse and abuse. Throw it all in the fire, turn up the heat seven times and erradicate any and all religious abberation. I'll help fuel that necessary inferno.

This said, I maintain that there will be a remainder and that no effort leveled will be able to overcome that remainder. Stripping away the dross will make manifest a core value by which human being has come this far and by which humanity may yet survive and flourish.

Considered materially Dawkins is dead right. The implications are not comforting. Picture a pride of lions feeding on the weak among a herd of Zebra. Picture a shark feeding on the slow and the distracted along its watery path. Picture a wholly rational society culling the unstable, the malformed, the infirm, the halt and the lame.

We are not there yet. There is resistance. Where does that resistance have its roots? What motivates us to care for weak and vulnerable among us? What follows where that motivation is stripped away?

To be human is to practice care in and through all of our relations. There is something irreducible in us which resists and overcomes the dictates of the selfish gene postulated by many and popularised by the likes of Dawkins.

This brings me to Jesus, the exemplar of what it is to be human in a world governed by the selfish gene. Not Jesus alone. Every person in every place and time who practiced and called for compassion in the face of ruthless exploitation and oppression; the triumph of the strong over the weak.

As to the Internet as the means of human salvation, I am sceptical. It may present itself as the means by which utopia may be imagined and achieved but I suspect it is a clever device by which the few, governed, "like successful Chicago gangsters", by the selfish gene, will enslave the many; exploiting those who serve it well and eliminating those who refuse and resist.

We are at a cusp, a time of radical redefinition. Much depends on our critical consciousness and our determination to freedom, responsibility, creativity and courage.

George

Those kids and young adults are now in the distinct minority. And when the youth group kids move out of the house, there is a large dropoff in attendance, and we both know that.

In Europe and North America, where almost everyone is connected and have access to all sides of the debate, religion is losing. Once you lost control of the message, you lost the war for the youth.

So have I and this has been happening all my life which goes back long before the internet.

Nice quote mining, George. Here's what Dawkins actually wrote. I'm going to underline the parts of these two paragraphs that you decided to include, and bold the sections that I think are important but you omitted. Ready?

Dawkins explains that our genes are not motivated by selfishness, but act as if they were. It's an important distinction.

What motivates us to care for weak and vulnerable among us? Empathy, as taught and that which is innate within us. Those of us who are not sociopaths feel empathy when we see another person or animal weak or in pain. There is a desire to help that has nothing to do with religion. The religious and irreligious alike have this urge.

Again, the world is not governed by a selfish gene, but don't let that stop you from using it. As for Jesus, why the hell did you just parachute him in here? I thought we were talking about genes? 

This post demonstrates perfectly why religion is losing because it lost control of the message. If we had this exchange with everyone in a room in the days before the Internet, you could pass off your selectively compiled quote and that would be that. With the Internet, I can be skeptical, look up the passage, and realize you left out a very important part that was quite empathetic of Dawkins to write but doesn't fit how you want to portray his words.

In short, I can call you on posting crap.

If you said this to a church youth group, and a teenager cared to look this up, they could call you on it, too. Or more likely, they would look it up at home, realize you were very selective with your Dawkins quote, and they'd just care a little less about what you have to say going forward.

All over the place claims and quotes and actions and crimes of the religious are seeing the light of day because the religious no longer live in a bubble. The "fools" as some Christians like Aldo here are so quick to label atheists, are absolutely destroying religious claims online. It's a turkey shoot. 

And again, this is why an open Wondercafe.ca is not in the best interests of the UCCan. If it were heavily moderated to remove all atheist-positive and Christian-negative content, that would also be suspicious. There is no good that can come to the UCCan by running this place as either an open or restricted forum. No other church in Canada has an open forum like this, and probably for good reason. It's a no-win situation.

Here's a short bit where dawkins explains his Immortal Gene idea

It's a very good well written article, and like all well written pieces it can be seductive with it's many insightful opinions. It just appears to me that someone writing this article within this day and age would of course consider this age to be the end all and be all of what defines a natural course for our future as human beings. She believes that the internet will cause the demise of religion because so much of the world has access to so much information via the internet. Of course she may have neglected to factor in that much of the world uses the internet not so much for the pursuit of higher learning but rather a vehicle for entertainment. In fact I would argue the internet has just as much potential for dumbing down nations as it does for increasing ones knowledge. Unfortunately every generation will always have it's intellectuals. Many will choose to pursue a higher learning through research,  reading, studies, etc.... but certainly not everyone. In my day those people went to universities and hung out at the library. Books were the learning experience along with experience. Someone born in this generation is most likely to believe that because of the computer and the internet, that this generation is the defining moment for intellectualism, I beg to differ. This generation holds no more intellectual abilities than previous generations. She fails to reckon with the past in her assumptions, and that seems to translate into her reasonings for religions too.

In her opinion, religion will no longer be necessary, yet history has proven it isn't the case at all. Even a 3 year study at Oxford that included "academics" from all over the globe came to a conclusion that religion and belief in a higher power seems to be something we are born with. They weren't looking to prove or disprove God, but rather to seek some truths about humans. Whenever there have been blips in our history without religions in some areas, it inevitably swings back. The internet won't prevent this. If anything human suffering should have wiped religion off the map, but it hasn't, rather it reinforces the liklihood that we will look for something outside of ourselves to cope, and it's usually the supernatural and mystical of what we refer to as God.

http://www.ox.ac.uk/media/news_stories/2011/110513.html

Hi chansen...

First observation. Big blocks of bold and underlined print bear a striking resemblance to some of our ultra confident Christian associates in the Cafe. It does nothing to impress me and even less to convince me.

I took a snippet from Dawkins to attract your attention. Same reason I dropped Jesus into the conversation. Something like the way an angler puts bait on a hook. Thanks for biting. You see I like a little controversy over things that matter to me, things I think matter to us all.

I have no quarrel with the genetic argument. I understand that human being is an organism which has to this point in time survived by meeting and overcoming the diverse organic and inorganic challenges encountered along its way.

Now, let's look at Dawkins:

Dawkins points out that the genetic "law of ruthless selfishness", without a moderating influence, would produce "a very nasty society". So, Dawkins goes on, "let us try to teach generosity and altruism". This begs a question, what is the origin of generosity and altruism?

I would answer the question about the origin of generosity and altruism by saying that they are innate. This agrees with your observation: "What motivates us to care for weak and vulnerable among us? Empathy, as taught and that which is innate within us." You use the word "empathy" which I think is the root of altruism.

In the opening lines of my post I wrote: "What matters most is within each and every single one of us and has no existence outside of our existence."  In full agreement with you, it is innate.

What, then, are we to make of this:

I suspect that Dawkins may not have this quite right. Without empathy, expressed as altruism, human being would be strongly disadvantaged in the evolutionary struggle. I am not speaking of a simple biologic human being. I am speaking of human being with the capacity for free decision. That is, human being that is not determined only by genetics.

This begs another question. What is the origin of human freedom? I don't know the answer and certainly can offer no proof for its presence in and through each and every one of us. Even so, I am unable to deny or refuse its presence in my experience. Do you know its origin?

One more quote and then a question.

Is this really the best you can do to affirm your commitment to reason as the means by which we can escape the delusions of religion?

Looking forward to your further insights,

George

Apologies... duplicate post.

All over the place claims and quotes and actions and crimes of the religious are seeing the light of day because the religious no longer live in a bubble. The "fools" as some Christians like Aldo here are so quick to label atheists, are absolutely destroying religious claims online. It's a turkey shoot. 

[/quote] ...since you referenced me in your 'religious rant' and seem to want to draw me into the politics of whose the winner... I did not suggest that atheists are fools, I suggested political atheists turned zealots, have little to show after 3,000 years of ranting. Hence they persue a fool's errand. For reasons of exerting politcs of control, you ascribe to my statement, what it did not say. I guess that is how the political astute exert themseles. I know lots of atheists, who do not put themselves into pulpits.... and do not preach condemnations...

As far as the selfish gene is concerned, I think natural evolution strikes a perfect balance between the wellbeing of the individual and the wellbeing of the whole. Individuals who are selfish to the detriment of the whole will not survive in the long run; individuals who are not selfish enough for their own wellbeing will not survive either.

As far as organized religion and the internet is concerned, the internet greatly enhances the free flow of information and ideas. It has become part of the collective brain of our species, and rapidly expands our collective consciousness and awareness.

If Martin Luther opened Christian religion to the spirit of free inquiry, then this very move spelled the eventual demise of organized doctrinal religion. Luther's process of reformation was aided greatly by the advent of printing, and the advent of the computer and the internet speeded up the process by leaps and bounds!

The Scandinavian countries are a case in point. They converted rapidly and to the last man to Lutheranism, they were Europe's staunchest Lutherans, and are now leading the global trend toward a secular, humanistic society. In the words of the travel writer Rick Steve, who himself is of Norwegian ancestry, "They have replaced religion with good government."

Sure, one can express humanism in traditional Christian terms, but these terms have become so tainted by 2000 years of absolutism and dogmatism that they have become counter-productive. The information age awaits a new language, and this language is being hammered out (I am a blacksmith :-) in mutual co-creation by the various internet communities, like our very own wondercafe.

Three cheers for wondercafe!!!

perhaps thr scandavians have taken the politics out if religipn.... at long last?

Yes, they have.

It seems to me that the Scandinavians have taken the religion out of humanistic spirituality.  The way they collectively organise the well-being of individual citizens illustrates a deep concern for all.  No child has to be rich to have decent shelter, food, health care or education.  Radically different from the collective organisation of say, the loudly Christian US.  Canada has  much to learn from comparing the two systems and deciding to do what is right. 

find your myth and go for it

the internet gives me access to so many different myths, stories, cultures, symbols, manna...

Yes, I fully agree.

A distinct minority, you say. Interesting. What's the source for your stats?

Here's some informative reading from Pew Forum...

"Fully one-in-four of the Millenial generation (in America) - so called because they were born after 1980 and began to come of age around the year 2000 - are unaffiliated with any particular faith." - source: pewforum.org

That would seem to suggest that 75% of this particular group - most likely a very connected group - are affiliated to a particular faith. Minority indeed.

There remain far more religious people than nonreligious. Why did you limit that comment to Europe and North America, anyway? There are also countries elsewhere that are very much a part of the global virtual world.

GODS Word has always been strong enough to stand by it's self.

Altruism? Is that not loving truth? Would people sooner lie?

This appears to beyond us yet as expressed by a notorious psychiatrist (those who study neurological actions) who posted a book called People of the Lie ... somewhat two spirited ... but they haven't gotten to the second spirit (jine, jinn, genre) yet ... as soul it's still out there (myth) of a Karen, thinking human? Some times known as a caring Ka tterina ... mire cat as a subtle metaphorical unseen thing!

Some sunstitutionary enlightenment required for what is yet a Shadow of what it could be if fully incarnate ... the great spirit is still out to lunch on this subject .. decession is in recess ... thus the recessive jinn! These things can be subtle as energy ... sometime above bored ... sometimes below the line drawn in the outside (sans)? Thus knowledge of all things remains elusive to unknowing and preferrentially naive mortals ... at least until you step out!

If you speak of these things mortals believe you've seen a UFO and are thus crazy (of that other demension). You know the thinking arena ... sometimes called a court ... sometimes Attica ... that Grecean Urning ...

The church I attend holds about 400 people (crushed). We have about 2400 attend per week. I was looking from about the 6th row back a few weeks ago and noticed that ahead of me there were about 120 people and only 2 in my age group and the rest were younger. Our church believes in evangelism. Our pastor is a very good bible teacher. Kids may not be flocking to flakey mumbo jumbo churches, but there are a lot of young people in Christ based churches.

UCC has 28 churches in our area with a total of 3600 attending. I can tell you how to save the United Church. It's simple. There are Christian churches meeting in theatres and warehouses all over the place, because they can't afford inner city land. The UCC could invite them in and they could worship together in the church.

The only problem is, when the UCC doctrines were preached - the new people would stand up and say, wait a minute, you are preaching the opposite to what Jesus preached. UCC would rather die than have people like me in their church.

So they will die. So will flakey doctrines. Theatre congregations will pick up the land, knock down the dilapidated buildings and the gospel will be preached. God is in no hurry.

I disagree.

Wise church plants won't knock down the existing structures. They'll just teach and preach from the Bible within them. No need to destroy what's savable when it can be renovated into something higher and better.

I don't think the UCCan is preaching the opposite of what Jesus taught. But maybe one of the revs here would do better at addressing that comment.

"God will teach truth here" ... by selling dispensations for sins only the guilty  mortal gods know they've done as a consequence of heiros gammos? Sacred roués ... the common folk arn't to know! This is close to Lil'eth ... the lying legacy ...

This is because the church in general hides so much ... like they have no authority to save souls and forgive sin ... that is god's alone ... but mire or earthy gods would never accept that ... they don't even question what they do ... sort of reminds me of the duffy case ... the gods take off and the satyrs keep their heads down ... as caught in the middle between those that believe thir god and those that think they are smart without a care for the other!

This is the world of confidence men ... note them on their soap boxes ... not knowing they shall suffer catharsis ... It'll wash .. given an O'sean ... the Dead Sea worked for the Hebrews ... and previous intellect went underground ... so thus was subtle ... all is not how it appears from the otherside of the point of bi-cameral mind ... a reall mule for supporting intelligence ... men like to shun that for the sake of their desire to control the whole a'damned notion of Shadow ... just to make the aboriginal man think ... after the goings on under the tamyrisque tree ... judi'anne prophecy for those that grasp the ephemeral ... sort of whispy!

Counters the men that think they're solid ... and the po' sold 'ere was laid out ... by a good scro'n ova ... jah hoo dah thunk it right ... but that creeping shadow of image a nation of temporal fuse'n in unseen regions. The cyclic myth goes on ... and mankind don't know when enough is enough ...

church attendance is no measure of the rightness of personal or congregate fiath or spiritual life....

It never was....

It never will be....

... I have yet to find the church whose 'priests' preach what Jesus preached for the long term...

Salvation and holibness is a personal thing that comes from following Christ... not listening to or following any preachers depsite their crowd appeal... or marketing success

Two eLLe with the grey mere if one is not supposed to know ... say how it is as you experienced it ... but don't lie about your powers as you are a confined soul ...as you can't escape everything that may appear as nothing to you ... by word of Genesis 50:25 ... alas thos who have presumed power will redact it ... such is the expression of those that have assumed the land of the People of the Lie ... it is an ineffable, illiterate dimension ... they don't even read what they preach ... consider the Golden Rule!

Is this just crappy fallout? Then there has to be a lower side to IT ... subtle intelligence! Got to be more than we experience here and now ... thus world lives up to the religion; "common folk shouldn't know ..."

This was once known as heiros gammos ... the Dark Knight of irony ... pot ta ferrous ... Jo'cephus' Left Hand man weaker ... but literate and processing as inversion in the right-minded sort?

A complex issue that's not for the  naive-minded ... a whole separate tribal mentality ...

Well... I have never said this... but WaterBouy, I think you wrong...

They are not confidence men... selling snake oil or magical trances... they are actually good folks helping to providepeople with their carnal needs and aspirations... People need it, they provide it... that is ok...

the problem is them acquiring political clout through strength of numbers and the rest is history...

The Gospels reject all that out right.... not a single religious leader got Christ's approval in the Gospels... what a terrifying thought for preachers...

And let me say again, because it was in a hebrew community, it turns our that the priests Christ addressed were Jewish, .... that wa an accident of history ... his words apply to all church leaders, priests and preachers...

Preaching and leading is a tough business... no one sets out to undermine the Gospel... most try to espouse it...

The mark is hard to come by...

Its our society and its structures that are changing not the Gospel...

Some poor souls were led to beleive that their social community and its polity was the Gospel... turns out it is not so...

The infinite and eternally reality of Christ is an existing reality that does not depend on us for its existence... that reality does not change ... though churches do (sometimes a lot)...

Church is not a sporting event measured by yards taken, crowds in the bleachers or whether your team got the most points...

Hi Kimmio,

I should not have posted to this thread, I was meaning to meet chanson's claim that young people don't buy it - then the verbal diarrhea set in.

Yeah, I get the runs now and then myself. (groan, bad joke)

A bit late in here (I've been away) but I'm not sure I completely agree with the article's thesis. The Internet is, indeed, a threat to "closed" religions that are focussed more on spiritual control and right belief than spiritual growth and personal responsibility for belief. To religions like progressive Christianity and UU'ism that are willing to be "open" and to allow their members to find their own path, it should be a boon. The problem for such traditions is finding a new focus for unity once doctrine no longer provides that focus, but that has little to do with the Internet. It is inherent in such traditions.

Mendalla

I apologize for my part in getting this thread off topic.

One last off topic observation. With a smile, I note the way in which a theist and an atheist are in agreement on how to respond to persons who disagreee with them:

George

Lol! For every thread gone sideways, I've yet to see one devolve into potty jokes. Until now. ;)

I mean that good naturedly, btw. Sorry, carry on...

It isn't the same, George. chansen was insulting someone else's posting. Saul was owning up to his own.

..especially doctrines that arise from social normals and cultural values not from theology itself...

.

Good discussion and the article was very interesting.  As Mendalla posted, the internet is a threat to closed religious communities.  The challenge for UUs and UCCan is providing an appropriate stew for people to share: spirituality/faith exploration; relationships; and opportunities to share gifts and passions for building better communities and a better world.  The better tasting and filling the stew, the more likely people will be there.  Cook it and they will come.

The leadership of such communities usually needs motivation provided by deep spiritual experiences or powerful relational experiences.

Excellent. That's what we Fellowship Baptists currently enjoy.

Hi Jae...

Always best to have another perspective. Your take on S_n_P's comment makes sense and helped me recognize that my attribution missed the mark.

With appreciation for the word of correction

George,

No problem, George. We all need correction from time-to-time

As to verbal diahrea ... NOSH-ite, no eat, the flowering vegetables (Gnoe-nut'ns) need fertilizer to grow ... humans thus fit into the larger cycle ... the mother nature that permeates difficult places too ... even it they don't know it ... George you and your Potty made me think of the Potter's Tapestry ... remember that? Some people don't recognize fecundityy when they meet ID ... sort of like soma ... what's that? It is a sacred thing shared only with church guilds that keep from the people what they didn't wish to think about (moral giving in to social demands for not knowing?) those outside their community feelings! That's the other, sometimes alien ... like a stray thought ... in fixation or institutionalized ... you're not supposed to got there ... even tho' it is a Hunny ova Bucket ... something could come've IÐ. What IÐ? Something often lost in translation ... and thus the false rapture over nothing ... a mere hole in the fabrication ... an abstract? What a pot to disturb as Shakespeare's 3 witches ...

Sometimes this is known as a place to draw from the un-conscious ... or imaginary realm to those that don't believe in psychic-alm structure as it is given (Eire-restive) in its entirety most can't see it and don't believe in the ingenuity to bring occult things to light. Mankind is the most difficult so creation stored them in a hole in space ... some called it a fold, Einstein called it a ðimþle ... when you realize it is time to speak of many things ... like bringing extremes to a odd medium ... the alien dimension of psyche? Po'eM Isis ole that's eD 'ere ... sometime a Seder, or a feast of a large hunch ... something you can reason upon as a deist and sewit up ...

If you don't believe in psyce activity as unseen works ... what then? It is something to play with ...

And ALDO ... not all priest fall into the same pot ... there are irregulars ... depending on perspectives they could represent rapture or just corruption of the larger fabrication ... a real RIPP-Eire as an old fart leading a PEW? Ain't that a sulfurous creation ... so people would learn of what they don't know through humours, wraught in satyr?

I didn't get many say ... far too much innocence ... to put it politely! Polity counts when dealing with limited psyches ... hoo created the bo'ques ... I leave it to your portion of abstraction to phi'll ... a place to put IT?

A real donkey sometimes even gets delight move'n! And the ass falls plumb down ... upstanding hynde NDe ... like a bleep in quantum fabrics ... the rougher nature of the wolf'n structure of the mind? You know the varients of rouff ... witha ll the weaving and warping you have to make an effort to keep up ... begin to know the tongues of all perspectives ... of mankind and where they are ... so are in the pits and the breather'n don't give a chit ... that's a small bit!

The god is the word? NOSH-ite? What peculiar Maxim ...

Perhaps why some say they fear and worship God ... as something to stay clear of?

How does one stay clear of the infinite when you are right in the midst of it (middle earth peoples of the Hobbit) as mentioned earlier ... this might be the ho-butte end ovite ... according to thinking demos ... that negative power to those with positive emotions ... that everything should go their way ... without social concerns of the support system (woven hypostasis)? So the weavin, warp'n, whelp'n and wouff'n goes on within the fabric of life that we can't see as inverse function ... like 1=X/Y ... the Y's ... men that is your quotient of questions you should be presenting when faced with the infinite dilemma that you can't fathom! It is biblical but fundamentalist don't quote 1 Thessaloneans 5:21 and it circa of syntax ... you may find it sort of fluid .. something to drinkin!

Powerful people call Y's men chit eaters ... it is a phun ... especially when see in phar's IDE review! I have been told I'm out of here and thus shunned ... many wouldn't touch me with a ten footed pole Scandinavian vorm of lap lander ... in a go round motion of rotational cultivation? Consider it a scion ... I'm a spinoff of rein'd Eire chit ... simply unbelievable to those with pious perspectives and can't grow ... god is life ... NOSH-ite again ... snot phunny! The pedentry of virtual truths and leaving the wee people to fathom itout ... asafterthe impulse in space ... the infinite could no longer reason ... role reversal? Suite mudder of God you didn't see that calming dijah ...

Crossing the line? Just walk that thin red Rueben for a while observing both sides ...

When the dust settles you may wish out of what's real (forth calming dimension?) become a portion of what's abstract? Leaves room to be collective when dumping emotional garbage ... and leaving you in a stunned state ... wait perhaps that's the way we got here?

There are some that would say that's nothing ... or perhaps nut'n about like in false sentient! Improperly cognizant?