Unless the person being visited is unable to leave the house because of health or some other reason, perhaps the clergyperson could suggest that they meet in a semi-public place - a coffee shop, a public library.  I know that I would prefer this to having the clergy bring his/her spouse along. 

Other solutions to this problem.  Involve the laity, have a lay person (preferably the visiting elder) accompany the minister.  They will also have an opportunity to develop a relationship with the person being visited. 

Have a ministry intern accompany the clergy as part of her training in pastoral care.

Ask the person being visited if she can have someone else persent (her spouse, an older child, a friend) - not necessarily in the same room but in the vacinity.

Or, at the church office with the door open a bit and the secretary working just outside.

I would prefer to be able to trust my minister.  Private conversations between a minister and myself are not for sharing with a secretary or spouse.  If I wanted to talk with a secretary or spouse I would approach them directly.  If my minster didn't appear trustworthy I wouldn't want to share personal details under any circumstances.

kaythecurler - I'm presuming that the minister is concerned about his/her own safety and reputation and the possibility that the person being visited might make a false accusation. 

But your concerns are mine if he/she brought his/her spouse along for the visit.  The minister is a professional, and presumably respect confidentiality - but the spouse is not necessarily so.

The secretary is different - I didn't mean to imply that her desk would be close enough to the slightly opened door for her to overhear conversations that were meant to be kept private - but rather to that a person would be less apt to be afraid of being accused of inappropriate behaviou if the door was partially open and the secretary had the opportunity to walk in at any moment. 

I don't like the idea that clergy, or teachers, or anyone else has to fear being wrongly accused, but it may be a reality.  I cautioned my husband when he began driving taxi to make sure he could account for his time, and where his route was, when driving passengers - especially the handicapped or minors.  He sometimes drives unaccompanied preschool-aged children to their daycare. 

bump

It's also the other people in the congregation that like to gossip that you have to worry about.  After all, what was the minister doing in his/her office with the door closed with that member of the congregation.  "Well, it could have been pastoral care..."  Unfortunately I've heard this kind of crap all too often...cms

I am surprised that there aren't more comments.

Greetings!

I understand that ministry personnel need to protect themselves from gossip and possible allegations of mis-conduct, and it must be hard to be able to do so.

Several years ago, after I had initiated a concern with my minister I was invited to come to the church to speak with him about it.  Upon arrival there I found his wife was to be present.  I had heard that this was his practice, but when I was invited it was to meet with "me" not "us".  Because of her presence (similar to what has been mentioned above re: wanting to meet with minister, not secretary/spouse) I refrained from being as open as I would have been had she not been there.  In hindsight this meeting was a dis-service to my minister and to myself because of how it was arranged.  I would much have preferred a slightly opened door and a meeting at a time when the church secretary was in her office if his concern was for his safety.

Hope, peace, joy, love ...

I too would prefer the secretary to the spouse.  Presumably the secretary is a professional, and understands confidentiality.  Also, she would probably be busy with her duties, and not apt to interfer with the clergy and me.  But what would the spouse do - sit and read, work on a craving or handiwork project - or would the spouse consider herself/himself part of the visit.  I think having the spouse present would be very awkward for anything more than a social visit.  It might be different if the meeting was to take place in the minister's home, and after showing you in the spouse was busy in another room, preparing lunch, folding clothes, watching a hockey game (quietly) on TV.

Unfortunately, we live in a world of paranoia, some of it properly placed.  We also like in a world of selfish, evil people who don't care whose life they destroy.  I've known clergy, social workers, lawyers, etc. who have been victimized by vindictive people.  A friend of mine, a pastor in a medium sized, suburban church, was entrapped in an awkward situation.  He did nothing wrong, but the people he was dealing with wanted him out of there at all costs.  At the board meeting, he brought his lawyer with him.  His accuser was there and her parents.  When the lawyer got finished with them, the girl denied it all and confessed she was coached by her mother who hated the pastor.   The lawyer took the family, and the church council, to the boards by telling them that if he lost his job because of this non-incident, his client would sue the family concerned and the church.  In the end, that family left the church, the issue was resolved, but he should never have had to go through it in the first place.

I hate to think that we live in a world where people will do these kinds of things.

As a principal and a teacher I at times found it necessary ot discipline a child.  After such and accusation I never again did so without a witness:: either the secretary or the caretaker or another teacher.,  If I could I would use the office with the door to my sectretaries office open.  If she was not available I used the caretaker and dealt with the problem in the corridor.

I do not think the clergy have any other choice but to have a witness that can attest to proper behaviour.  In one town in which I lived a local clergyman was doing some "counselling" with some of his female flock.  It does happen and one must cover one's ass so to speak.

Shalom

Mate

I would think that keeping one's ass (and other nearby parts) covered at all times outside of one's own house is part of generla decency

Gord

Agreed unless one is in a naturist colony in which case the social norms change.

Shalom

Mate

I can agree that a pastoral visit with the minister's spouse present might be awkward, but I disagree that they would be more likely to breach confidentiality.  Much of pastoral care deals with confidential, personal information and this is something you are aware of as a family member of a minister.

The more people who know about something the more apt it is for someone to 'spill the beans'.  I recently received a gift in recognition of service with the condition that I not tell anyone (some people might think that deserved it more than me).  I told my husband, certainly expecting him to observe confidentiality.  The next day we ran into an old friend at the mall and we weren't talking long before Mr. Seeler blurts out:  "She has a new **** a gift from ____"  I butted in with:  "Yes, he just bought them for me.  Thanks Dear."  and a meaningful look!

No, I don't want the Pastor's spouse to know my most soul searching problems.  It would be hard enough to trust one person enough to really open up - let alone two, and one of them not of your own choosing.

seeler, just out of curiosity, isn't that an awkward way to give a gift in recognition. How can you be recognized if noone can be told?

Yes, it's true that the more people know, the more likely it will become common knowledge, but if we're talking about the need for at least one person besides the minister to be present, or in an adjacent room, during a pastoral visit, I still think that a spouse is likely to be as trustworthy as a secretary.  Possibly more so in the case of a smaller church where the secretary might be a volunteer member of the congregation.  Maybe this just stems from my own eperience as a family member of clergy - confidentiality is just a part of their work and life, and I would never consider using something I overheard as coffe-hour gossip.

Of course, it would be more likely I would go to the minister's office for a pastoral conversation, and so it would be likely that the secretary would be the third party, but in the case of an in-home visit I'm personally not going to complain if the spouse needs to be brought along (although I would hope this would be clarified while setting up the meeting).