Well said Mr. Spong

Hi John

Is Spong's view flexible? Is it possible that the position stated also misses the mark?

regards

I believe Spong was referring to the wisdom that there is no final or ultimate truth, as every ending marks a new beginning, like a circle gyrating in serpentine motion across time. Just when we think we know it all we find that we've opened a whole new horizon of questions. This, I believe, is wisdom.

but then if there is final or ultimate truth ... why can't this be accomodated just well?

typo... 'just as well'

Because there would be no distinction between us and the final and ultimate God then, i.e. the God of God. And we must be so far from that Being that until then only relative truths can be had.


Either that, or I've had too much turkey and Christmas cheer that I simply don't know what I'm talking about.

Neo

You spell out an ancient issue...

For some there is not connection between God as God, and individual life. Perhaps an other reality, infinite and eternal, that is in human terms, that we can connect to and relate to. In my thinking, this is God in us, and comes alive through us.

If there is such a reality, how do we search and find Truth and live it so we grasp ultimate existential significance in being....

... too much turkey? not possible

As humans we have close and finite boundaries… perceptually, intellectually, spiritually. A blade of grass defies our full comprehension and the limits of our experience. If there is a god, we discern something of it spiritually but just a whiff, a fleeting hint, and that in human language is more than we can describe. We have no choice but to try to engage with the effects of god we think we discern within us… shadows of shadows of shadows…

 

We don't "get" the reality we inhabit. Why posit another? 

 

 

As I completely agree with you, if you dont, then I dont, so do me a favor and continue

 

---wait a minute, there IS something ---for another thread,

Cordially,

Mike

It has been my experience that we more than not, do not 'get' reality. We seem to have the capacity to create the realities we have before us. The result is many realities from many people. In the midst of such creativity, which of the realities we have created, from existence that we did not create, should be grasped in the pursuit of ultimate existential significance -- as Tillich would have it.

Here I fall back on the early reformers. The proof of the pudding is in the eating. If we do Christian, and it works, then that reality is the one to be preferred.

Next is my thinking is that we can in fact experience and experiment the Christian reality. (Of course here, I do not mean institutional Christianity.) From experience and more solidly from repeatable, more objective experiment, can we not delineate the path to follow? What is the outcome of that following?

We must 'do' Christ to know Christ in our existing and being. My thinking is that if we do it and it works, and as a result we find meaning, significance and purpose that is more than time and place, this finding in regards to existing and being is important. It is ultimately existentially significant ... as Tillich would have it.

regards

As humans beings, individual manifestations of the Human Soul, we follow the path of self-respect first, which follows the path to self-awareness which eventually leads to God-Awareness, and then finally God-Realization. But having some grasp of the immensity of our Universe, I can't help but feel that even this last stage of being At-One with God is but a relative Oneness. In fact, I believe that there must be many, many stages of "Oneness" in the Universe. Completing the goal of being Human, that is, coming full circle back to the beginning, likely only starts us on a cosmic journey of awareness where we would be like babes in the woods again.


Could our "Father in Heaven" still be subject to a Solar God that in turn is subject to a Galactic God, of Whom naught may be said? How could we even begin to imagine what the Awarenss of our Galaxy would be like? And then we learn that there are more Galaxies in our Universe that Stars in our own Galaxy. And these are arranged in Galactic clusters and super Galactic clusters. Omg, Awarness becomes the most powerful thing we can concieve of. How could there ever be a final and ultimate Truth? From our point of view, truth must be an ever expanding series or steps of Awareness, like a veritable Jacobs ladder to Heaven, or the "many mansions" that Christ spoke of.


This, to me, is like speculative philosophy, where only through analogy and the understanding of the microcosm, e.g. "us", can we ever hope to gain a glimpse at understanding the Macrocosm. Or ... maybe it's just the turkey talkin'..

lots of thought...

but practically what are we to do, all things considered?

in action is living, existing and being.... ?

There is nothing like the wondering about the two ends ... the journey of it all with escatology included ... when one can turn what another calls chit into compost of another variation ... variety ... spectre ... ghost or geist of the past as a kohl, chill wind ... nuematoligist! The media exteme of looking at ends and seeing how they phtttzzz ... that's phi-lix-esse, or Felix for short as motal pools do not like complex puddles ... the resolution of enigmas?

 

One needs to stretch the abstract and those that believe in completion ... haven't a clue about abstraction! Such is imaginary east Eire ... an Ignatious laid ... bi Gui inna  henna ... a blue St reak'n for the love of that which is still outside the enclosure ... Luçe ends of a poorly defined emotion? From such Eros a' thought ... as Levite intellect! Thoughts are not heavy baggage 'ere---Jonah's capitan, the man of the bridge really was bo'sun ... shot by the sextant.

 

Nothing evolves without a story, myth as acceptable to the mind on the other side of the heart ... gof igis/figur' ... the origin of gophs! Then there are mental disconnects ... just for people who don't wish to tiye ends! Thus the fringe group ... as pri Esteral in some biblical myths when the Eire parts are divined .. and th pyre burned ...

I think there is a final, ultimate, absolute and godly Truth. IT is the Truth of nonduality. Unfortunately, IT is a say-nothing Truth, a zero Truth: the capital T Truth of synthesis.

 

In the small t truth of analysis, however, truth constantly evolves and is created by us, the observer. Analytical truth depends on the viewpoint of the observer, which differs from observer to observer, and is arbitrarily chosen by the observer. In the world of duality or analysis, there is a virtually limitless number of viewpoints and truths, every one of them arbitrarily chosen or created by the observer. In Eastern philosophy, this is known as the world of maya, or illusion. But I choose to give the world of illusion a a positive spin and call it the world of limitless creation.

 

 

 

 

I think it would be good for us to experience that we are one, that we are all in this together, and then act directly from this unitive awareness.

 

The way to unitive awareness is introspection, contemplation, meditation, centering prayer, or any contemplative  or meditative exercise.

 

And when you see the "t" it is "tao" a feint of prior thoughts in pure emotional state as it was! Thus it was erected as ET ... upstanding and oude a'ere ...

 

Sometimes this is pegged as a way in ... by them previously un-Jared by alchemii ... they just can't relate as pure isolationist! Thoughts thus go unattached ... dis Loched as the la Deis of the lake evaporates in a spectre ... after the cataract of cores nature ...

The capital T in TAO, WaterBouy, the capital T for capital T Truth! Together with capital A and O, as in Alpha and Omega.

I think you're right, it's our immediate and most important goal right now.

In order to reach the Absolute Truth, that maya would have to merge back into non-being, the zero Truth, which is in effect Absolute Being. There is only relative truth in creation, outside of creation there is only the Absolute.

Yes, Neo.

Spong's teaching, or his expression of Jesus' teaching?

 

 

 

Is there an organic device where light can be compressed in kohl nature? The physical opposition to adiabatic expansion! One must be a bit familiar with thermo dynamics and where heat goes when spent! One needs a heat sink ... and there are some odd symbols to physically resemble ... ethereal concepts that are out-of-'ere! It is something only a singular sol' can really get into. Fractal forms usually walk the line at the edge and earn the label edgers as those that trim the fringes of the prime-evil garden ... it is a hairy issue to speak of publicly! Those devoted to emotions and un-knowing ... can get real touchy about hearing how their existential event came to be. It is a screwed up or Jack Duff'd estate. Just ask Mike Duff about how the subject of im-bezz-el-ment popped up. It is best if the public pool (moral) is ignorant to these operations of avarice!

 

Perhaps when moving this is just a flatliner about to bust out like Chanson ... or V'Nus in her shell ... just standing there like a lonely "T".

 

Arm,

Did you ever notice that "T" planted on a mire surface like water forms a gothic "I" like ...  Įђ, or other complex formulation from the abstract or imaginary "I" that could be singular (1) in another tradition, or even (ij) that stimulates the production of (Y) and curiosity about the Cos!. That's all intellect that is out there requiring adequate transmutation into silent form ... and thus the in-quin of thought as X-press'n! You can't say nut'n publically as a Shadow Character following the ethereal "c" so you can see what'z writz. Sometimes writz are known as scriptz ... thus excessively de Rhama tiye Zed as fixed when their not ... it's just the way IT isn't ... never was as an evolving idealism. One has to believe there's something Moor to the creepers on the page boy ... bob'n along like a Jinn Je-Eire bred character with arms and legs chew doeff/duff, because he didn't know when to run when facing a greater void. Thus the brave could provide a meal ... from the remnants of what they left as unknowns ... the spirit and soul having departed to unknown zones and thus the unknown archetype as those parts of mind pas ova ...

 

You could say they're out there but from the mental perspective they're in there ... acoording to theory of the all-knowing soul that's myth to those that believe only in physical abberations ... and thus all the redactions in the aboriginal talle, or crossing that allah when you get to IT as odd appearance on the otherside; where everything is in-verse! Like Tao's it is something you can get into with appropriate desire for things you don't know ... a gross expanse even to the Jehovah Witness Esse ... who I don't believe have faith in ethereal esse in "c"s either. The Penecosts tell me through some of their representatives that they don't believe in ghosts either ... except the whole-E ghost as a pyre vacant in a kohl soul! what is it that's miss'n, a buzzy lass that collapsed due to lack of complementary care in co-operative form? This doesn't go over well with human's with tendancy towards conflict ... the fight or flight incidentcausing a radii of gyration or otherwise mystical crankin'!

 

This perhaps gets very Complex for "E" the simple light of illumination for those choosing to assist those still in the dark and not wishing to proceed ... as creeping Shadows that encompass de light, or dele-vites who are quick in the san ... as they Buzz about freely in that kohl mere-in-r's void overhead as shamayin that allows the bosun to set coarse directions to wards they don't know what like C Columbus ... that had an intuitive sense there's Moor out there than meets the eye in a well-rounded domain!

 

These things many do not wish to know about so they can know what's flat out and unbent ... which is not much in a realm of the impressive lyon of Judy'n & the Roman ... that could get expressed differently by a greater cumulation of thought patterns ... an ecclesiatic dream?

 

Some don't like Gothic Structures because of the scary icons designed to make common people fear icons of literacy. Neither the Nobles or the religious fathers wanted the common-Eires to know ... leading to flat do-do-line (doddlein) and eventually the creative stint busts out --- Freudian Theory. Is there a St. in T as an incidental pas in ... in the intellectual inversion? This could be upsetting to non-thinkers and why we're in turd here as þêðè mint ... the essence of sects in de bo'sh with de lamb ... light in the Shadow that the English called gorse as it grows around open spaces ...?

 

When tired of a corrupt life one can play with the soul as expressed in word as bottom line ... must be because powerful people don't like lesser things as well laid out and unknown ... like Old English Gothic! JeSus as you "c" IT going bi ... now who and what is exactly constant when we don't know what's "going on" in the un-grasped state of mind?

things alwsys fall back to the act og existing... one way or another..