How right you are Crazyheart!!!

This is an good point you bring up, Crazyheart. It is important that when one shares their testimony, that it is done in a way that will benefit others. I guess we need to watch our wording, etc. We want to bless others with the story.

All this being said, though, sometimes Christians who are new to the faith are just learning how to articulate their experience. I've been there myself. LOL It takes a while before we learn how to put such an incredible experience into words that others will understand and be edified by. In the end, I think it just takes practice - and prayer.
 

Hi Crazyheart,

I don't think the insideous thread is always there.

I have heard and delivered testimony plenty of times.  It simply is one person's witness.  It can be believed or it can be doubted it remains that one person's witness regardless or whether it is believed or doubted.

Testimony is not a proof.  Biblically nothing is proven on the strength of just one witness, there needs to be at least two.

What one can do is give their witness and let the Holy Spirit work with it as the Holy Spirit sees most fit.  The Holy Spirit, like the wind, blows where it will and for some it is tempest and others it is doldrum and those two could be standing arm in arm.

When I have offered my witness it has been of what I believed.  Not of what others must believe.

If they have been impacted by it in anyway that shows something is stirring but I don't get to determine what or how.

They are for both.  For the one giving the testimonial they are getting their baptism by fire so to speak.  They are going to say things and once a word leaves your mouth you cannot always control what happens next.  James tells us that the tongue is a most destructive thing and we are to consider what blazes may be ignited by the smallest spark.

Once we open our mouths and give voice to that which we believe all bets are off.

This works for the one giving the testimony in that they will soon learn what attracts and what repels and they will learn to maximize their witness so that it becomes more attractive and less repulsive.  That is not to say that they will fabricate anything or change their testimony.  It is to say that they will learn best how to say what they want to say.

Testimonials are where young Christians sink or swim.  They have always been that way.  Typically, they have been working with an elder or mentor to prepare their testimony before hand.

They are for the audience as well since testimony of whether or not God can be trusted or counted on impacts upon whether or not we draw nearer to God ourselves.  It could be that our personal testimony is used by God and the Holy Spirit to convict a non-believer of God's desire to enter into a relationship with them.

That is part of the testimony of Nicky Cruz.  Cruz was constantly in the face of Rev. David Wilkerson (the cross and the switchblade) and one night while Wilkerson was preaching (testifying) the Holy Spirit used Wilkerson's words to penetrate Cruz's heart.

Cruz has since that time gone on to work with gangs and such and has powerful testimony of his own which he shares.

Like most things designated miraculous, this kind of dramatic conversion is a rarity.  And yet, both Wilkerson and Cruz have dedicated lifetimes to presenting their witness to target audiences.  Some hear and want more.  Some hear and want only to leave.

When testimony is given questions will be asked.  The initial questions are usually asked by the mentor to get the testimony flowing so that all aspects of the individuals witness are highlighted.  It is unusual that questions would be asked by individuals who are doubtful or skeptical.  This is unfortunate.

Without this kind of challenge the young believer will not grow strong enough to deal with the life that awaits.  Interestingly in a court of law this would be called the cross-examination.  Why our young Christians should be afraid of the cross is beyond me.

Grace and peace to you.

John

Hi CH,

I suppose I may spark another new round of controversy. I never did get around to reading  all of the thead noted above. Having read some of it I began to ask myself "What is it that makes a person so 100% sure and positive that his/her beliefs are the only truth or the one true way to God" and give a testimony of  the same.

(I'm now  intimidated while posting because we have to be so very careful about our wording. It confronts us in black and white and its so very hard to repair the damage even if we didn't mean the words exactly as typed.)

I had better insert the following:

This is what I believe:

Trying to come up with an answer I'm thinking particularly during the holiday season of the TV evangelists such as David Mainse on 100 Huntley St. We all know that  the Christmas season  is a  depressing time for many people. David traditionally receives many calls for help from suicidal people at this time.

David will of course point them towards the bible in a literal or evangelical sense in the process of helping them to rebuild their lives. They will be taught to read the bible as the one and only truth. Anything which doesn't agree with the bible will be considered the enemy or the devil. They are also encouraged to speak the word as a means of fortifying their new found faith. I am of course speaking about new Christians who discover Jesus for the first time through 100 Huntley St. or other similiar programs.

David also preaches "Go ye into all the world and preach the gospel". It is part and parcel of his Christianity. The New T. also says "don't hide your light under a bushel" and Jesus says in the NT "If you deny me before men I will also deny you before my Father " or something like that. New Christians in particular (old ones too) feel obligated as well as great joy in talking about their faith.

I know that some people on the WC  consider it their mission to help these people explore their faith in a greater depth. They may be partly here for this very reason. I'm not one of them. I don't feel called to argue about people's beliefs on the WC.

I have my own beliefs as many people do so I'm not at all upset or surprised if I'm told I'm going to hell if I don't believe a certain way. I don't mind people giving their testamonies.

In closing you know I combine various beliefs into sort of a big melting pot of my own....lol. I don't believe all of the bible literally but as a young person I wanted to be a missionary. So...man....even if I may have questions about their theology I support the evangelists 100% with the exception of a few bad apples whom I forgive and understand. Many of them are doing wonderful works running various programs to help people in the real world. David Mainse always tells people to find a church in their community so he isn't being selfish and  hogging them for his own benefit and monetary contributions.

Evangelists are off topic I know but I'm using them as an example of the theology we read on the WC. For many people in the big cities I believe the TV evangelical programs  may be the only church they attend. 

 I can edit this post, delete much of it if you think its unsuitable regarding the subject.

P.S. Uh...oh...I just recall I did get upset or do get upset when armageddon or the end of the world being immenient is preached on the WC.  I've gone on rants.....

End of long rant as usual....

:-)

Thank you for your comments. It is a congenial  discussion and everybody has their own thoughts on this.Maybe more will drop by.

I first read this thread without looking at the thread that it is refering to.  I thought, I love testimony.  I gave one a few years ago at a benefit auction and dinner for a group that helps women who have escaped abusive relationships.  It was not a religious testimony, just stating to the audience how the group had helped me move on to become a stonger, more balanced person.  It helped the audience, because they got to witness how their money was benefiting people, it helped the organization because it got the word out on the work that they do and it helped me in healing to tell the story.

Then I read as much of the thread that I could stomach.  To be fair, I don't think that oncebroken intended for her original post to have the effect that it had on some people, I do firmly believe that she intended to have an uplifting effect.  But to me whose prayers were not answered and instead of the safety that was prayed for, not only by myself but by people in several different prayer chains all over the world, a "worst case" situation arose that will most likely have implications far into the future, it ripped open old wounds.

I really like testimony where people have found strength in God or the people around them or themselves and made it through a tough situation.  The "I prayed and it worked for me, so it can work for you if you pray hard enough or have strong enough faith or the right kind of faith" testimony just hurts me through to the bone.  If god answering prayers is proof that god exists then I have concrete proof that there is no god.  Luckily for me I don't think that way.

Thanks Somegirl.

Hi crazyhart:

In some fundamentalist denominations and cults, mystical experience is (ab)used to confirm the truthfulness of doctrine.

In these organizations, the novice is both indoctrinated into a particular doctrine and initiated into a mystical experience. The mystical experience is then represented to constitute the Divine confirmation of the absolute truthfulness of the doctrine. The thus initiated firmly believe that that their belief system has received Divine sanction, which can make them into self-righteous zealots. That people of different belief systems and cultures, and even those who don't adhere to a particular belief system have similar mystical experiences seemingly does not occur to them.

Arminius, Thanks, you always give us a different view.

Thanks for your thoughts crazyheart and others. I agree with what you said ch. It seems like some testimonies are telling us how we ought to believe. Since I am one who is not always good at doing what I am told to do, I bristle at this notion.

I like the notion of tesimony in the 12-step tradition. They share their "experience, strength and hope" and use this to help others. They are also encourage to "take what you like, and leave the rest".  I think that is what testimony ought to be. It ought to be a light in the darkness. It ought to be  a story that says we can get out of whatever mess we might be in. I personally have a difficult time putting my faith into words. Never-the-less, I have been know to try. I appreciate hearing other peoples' stories, and find that they can be inspiring at times.

It ought to be a light in the darkness.= Thank you Northwind

There is a line in our service (and my mind is blank this morning) that goes something like between the words and the listening.  It is my favourite part.  That phrase resonates with me because it says so much in so few words.

Words are spoken.  Thrown out onto the air and how we hear them will depend on that space between speaking and hearing - it is the space of our lives.

The speaker will speak from their life.  I will hear based on mine.  The words will change in that transition as does their meaning.

None of us can truly know what is inside that space between speaking and hearing.  All we can do is to acknowledge its existence.  Recognize that when we speak what we say, what we mean, can be transformed by that space. 

The space can become a bridge or a gap depending on whether we, the speaker, are willing to hear the words as the listener does and conversely that the listener is willing to open themselves to hear the speaker's voice not their own.  The questioning and critiquing can be beneficial to both parties, but only if both are willing to cross the divide between what is said.

LB

Words, like Nature, half reveal; And half conceal the Soul within.    

Lord Tennyson

Thank you Arminius....I hadn't thought of it in those terms but you have hit the nail on the head for me....

Lb, thank you

I am bumping this up

We often hear the argument from the conservative/literalist benches that something can't be true for one person and not for another - the black and white approach.

Imagine now, believing the world to be like that, and having an experience of, for example, holding a puppy in your arms. (to use something other than relgion)  How could you possibly believe, knowing only black and white, that for someone else that the experience involved a kitten? It cannot be both, and you know with absolute certainty that your experience was "real". So the other person must obviously be wrong. They've been deceived, and you want to save them from their deception so that they can experience what you've experienced.

Elementary, my dear GR!

But maybe our fundamentalist sisters and brothers went to a different elementary? The one where they teach traditional Christian math, without the concept of zero?

Now, now.... let's be fair.

It's not just fundies that are 'johnny come lately" in terms of understanding the concept of zero. A lot of primitive people had that difficulty

Yes, Witch, I agree. But the "primitive" people weren't absolute about their cosmologies. They took their mythologies metaphorically, and in that respect were ahead of the later and more "civilized" Christian literalists and absolutists.