At our monthly healing service, people are invited to share their testimony.We usually have 25 attend.  Sometimes it is just one or two who speak. One service 15 people offered something.  It takes time & practice for people to feel comfortable. After a year's worth of services, people are getting much more comfortable.

We have a taize (spelling?) service at our church about once every two months.

Compared to the more traditional services, it is more spiritual and less theology centred. For the witness, three members of the congregation, give a personal account of their faith.

There are those who prefer the more traditional sermon - and others, like myself, who find they get so much more from personal faith stories. It seems to connect us in our common humanity, and isn't that what faith is supposed to be about?

PP, faith can be personal, and self-contained; however, faith which results in action, which causes you to do something..that seems to me a more holistic faith?

You know, i wrote this post, early this afternoon, when I was feeling very exposed.

Will reflect on it more personally, but I wonder, if by my reflection on my faith on this board, I have become quite comfortable in discussing my challenges, delights, actions, all related to my faith..fairly openly.

When doing it in front of the congregation; however, it is like the first few posts here....will people accept it...will it be welcome.....and naming anything of the same depth that I am willing to go into here, well, it triggered a sense of vulnerability that surprised me.

Thank goodness for friends who nodded from the pews.

I have shared in front of my church. It was an incredibly difficult, yet powerful and meaningful experience. I find that any time I really get talking deeply about my faith and personal experiences; how I've experienced God in my life, I tend to get choked up pretty easily.

And absolutely, like you Pinga, I felt very exposed; vulnerable. I had no idea how people would take it. Would they see what I was trying to convey or would they think it a load of hogwosh.

Well as you probably know, I am uncomfortabe giving them and uncomfortable listening to them. I can not tell you why because I haven't figured it out, myself.

crazyheart, you are not alone. I know of people in my congregation who feel the same way. Our comfort zone is an individual thing - personally I welcome personal faith stories, but I have a bit of a phobia when it comes to public speaking, so would rather write about it than speak.

I think it's important to evoke an emotional response when speaking from the pulpit - it's soul destroying to see folks "nodding off". Personal faith stories often evoke an emotional response - personally I would rather see folks uncomfortable than asleep.

Pinga, personal faith often leads to faith in action - although I admit to being originally drawn to Christian mysticism.

In biblical terms, I guess I'm more of a Mary, and you're a Martha. 

I generally do not like personal testimonies - I feel uncomfortable and embarassed for the person giving them, even when they show no sign of being embarassed themselves. 

If a personal testimony is requested or given I would like to know why - what point is being made, what message is being shared. 

And if a personal testimony is requested, please try to keep it short and to the point.

If asked to speak for tive minutes, don't make it twenty.

I share mine with very few and like it that way....but I love to hear others...

well, it was a moment for "faith in action".

so, timeline was 3min or so.

Pinga - for Faith in Action, 3 minute time - yes, I can see that.  It would be easier to read a short devotional, or give a 20 minute 'testimonal' than to get to the grit of the matter and make it personal in three minutes.

And for some of us it would be to 'bare our soul'.  Not easy.

I am still grappling with "why?" Does your ( generic) story change me? I don't think so.

Crazyheart, for me, it is to hear the various ways that those in my church live out their faith, and then say....aha, yes, i can do that..or heh, i hadn't thought of that, but that is my faith in action as well.

We are not talking about our belief in God, the Spirit or Jesus....I am not trying to convince anyone of anything.

Rather, it is about how our faith influences our lives.

At my weekly Bible study, the check-in question we all answer is 'Where did you see God at work this week?" Some of the answers are personal, some are global. By the end of everyone sharing, we are always left with the feeling that God is very busy in some wonderful ways.

We had a night at immersn called "Heart Stories", where we all shared testimonials about our faith and stories of where we'd felt God.  It was an incredible night, and we went through a heck of a lot of boxes of tissues.

When the group of us that plan immersn were trying to write up some of our greatest nights (with the intention of creating a sort of handbook to pass on to other churches), we all thought of testimonials.  But it was decided that for churches starting an immersn of their own, it might be too 'advanced'.  And by that we meant that it is the sort of thing that is successful when a community of people is tight-knit and trusting.  It's the kind of service that works best when people aren't afraid to share - including those that usually feel shy and vulnerable. 

And even then... it's not easy.  That night, I shared a testimonial of my own - one that was hard-earned, and one that I was a little nervous to share, because I was worried of sounding like I liked hearing my own voice.  But I'm glad I talked, because I had a friend come up afterwards and tell me that I had spoken as if straight from her own experiences. 

I think WonderCafe is so successful because, against all odds, it creates a non-judgemental, supportive community that really does care and listen to anything anyone has to say.

 I have shared in small groups, and once in church. But I've found it much easier sharing with friends outside the church. It comes out in discussions about all sorts of things. Most of my friends are agnostic or atheist and I find them far readier to engage with faith and spiritual issues, questions of personal values and the nature of human/personal/faith experience than most of the Christians I know.

Too often, Christians get either blindly assertive or hung up on their own dogma, or embarrassed by their incapacity to think and debate in critical terms: the church lets us down a bit by not helping us to better engage theologically and critically with our own faith and then discuss it. It's great that we do it here to some extent. But I have found Jewish and Moslem friends rather more articulate than Christian friends when it comes to understanding, thinking about and talking freely about spiritual experience and the meaning of faith. Christians get embarrassed, as though we're discussing underwear or abnormal bodily functions.

Christianity has been, and is, very much about instilling sectarian principles -- often fine points of creed -- rather than with asking questions and accommodating diversities of spiritual experience. Christians tend to seek orthodoxies. We look for adherents not visionaries, From what I've experienced, Judaism and Islam are generally less conformist and more concerned with exploring the meaning and understanding of their faith. This is probably because neither have denominations in the way we do: the Sunni-Shia split happened very soon after Mohammed's passing and, whilst founded in a contest for authority, it is largely a cultural divide, a bit like the old Orthodox-Catholic split in Christianity.

The Reformation really raised the stakes for the fine print of doctrinal tenets, far more than the Inquistion's concerns about heresy. People like Knox campaigned hard and not unsuccessfully to get the death penalty for every Catholic priest: not the cheeriest way to found a denomination I'd have thought, and certainly not an augury of echumenism. And then Protestantism has split time and time again over ever more precise niceties of interpretation: debate was not welcomed, so new sects or denominations came into being. In the big kirk in Stirling (I THINK it was Stirling, maybe Dunkeld) in Scotland, a wall was built to divide the sanctuary into two worship spaces to accomodate two divergent ministers and their flocks and prevent them from drawing each other's blood. In Judaism, the sensitivities seem to be more about ritual than thought, and in Islam, the Prophet and the Q'ran are not subject to any Imam or leader as an ultimate authority: respect is earned and -- not always, by any means, but usually/normally -- wide ranges of interpretation are tolerated, debated and discussed. The only conditions for becoming a Moslem really are about acknowledging the authority of Mohammed and the Q'ran. There is no creedal interpretation to which you must subscribe (and the freedom of thought that's further available is a part of what's been behind Islam's rapid growth, I have been told).

I'd like encourage everyone to speak out so that we can help each other be more open to each other and freer, more articulate and more tolerant in our approach to our faith and facilitated in our faith journeys. We ned to deal better with contradition: contradictions in our own thought and faith lives, and contradition that comes from others. Ultimately, the faith journey is the life journey, and it's one that has to be undertaken alone. We can be with others and beside others, but the consciousness we know and experience is known ONLY to us, uniquely and individually. We are ultimately alone in the Cosmos, so it's good to talk.

I don't think my personal faith statement due to my testimony, would go over too well in most churches to be qute honest.

So I'll just keep them to myself for now.

I'm not saying that I think there is no solution to the problems that the church face today.

It's just too divided for it to make much difference now, besides there is revelations that will come outside of the organized church & they will be proven soon enough.

Bolt

Christianity - Celebrating 2000 years of unfulfilled revelations

how do you know? you havent been invloved with in the faith, the only revelation people outside of the faith hear is mass media propaganda

heh, folks...please, not another fundie argument.

i am getting kinda tired of the thread killings...

Not true.  I'm struck by revelations about you almost every time you hit "Save".

In my defense, mine was funny.

You know the characteristics of the word "fundie" goes up the same flag waving way as the word "bigot".

 Convenient.

This seems to be such a strategic move on the part of anyone who would not care to indulge in anothers discussion.

Whether the thread get's killed or not let the chips fall please.

This is an open forum & a question was asked & this includes all faith opinions, does it not?

Why ask this question then raise a red 'fundie' flag for people to take note of it, when it seems as though your question may have some sour notes as well?

Open Forum.

Is anyone being hateful or disruptive here?

Bolt

wow, you must float 6 inches off the ground when u walk

the Fundie card is uses when they have nothing in there hands, the only advantage they have , is that we cannot see there poker face

I thought we were discussing testimony and personal faith.

So far I see testimonies of a personal kind thus far,,,you?

Who cares whether it branches off to organized & somewhat political "church' or "religion'?

What is faith to you?

Bolt

When I feel like it.  You aren't going to start worshipping me now, are you?

My personal faith statement would dictate to me that to worship you chansen would be an act of idolatry.

We worship Christ because He has shown us so far,  what God's love is.

Not a selfish love but a love that is worth , living for, fighting for, & if neccisary dieing for.

Bolt

When you think about it, a lot of the Bible has as it's basis, the kernel of personal faith. People, like Paul on the road to Damascus, had an experience -which they rightly or wrongly attributed to the Divine. This led them to a shift in perception and a subsequent change in behaviour.

Perhaps the Bible itself is an attempt, by people who had such experiences, to explain for themselves and others these unfathomable experiences?

We humans tend to see the world in story terms - that's how we make sense of it.

Personal testimonies that we hear today are a continuation of this tradition. Something happens to us that causes a shift in perception. Is it any wonder that those of us who've experienced such a change want to tell others?

So, I'm prepared to go out on a limb on this issue. If listening to a personal testimony makes you feel uneasy, uncomfortable or embarrassed - get over it. It's more likely related to growing up in an uptight Anglo heritage where the encouragement of emotional display was frowned upon.

A personal testimony is someone sharing with you an important event in their life. The most any of us has to offer is ourselves, and we as listeners, should be mindful of that.

Well there is the whole matter of what can be constude as good mannors.

No arguement here.

Bolt

for that simple trick? no way chris angel floats off of buildings , not to mention he walks on water

This thread has wandered into the kind of BS I was on about above... the Protestant demand for orthodoxy and our keenness to recruit of "adherents" rather than searchers and inquirers.

Riiiight.

Well, as long as you aren't practicing acts of idolatry...

I have no idea who Chris Angel is, but it brings to mind a great image that has been around the 'net for a while...

Also, his pant legs are wet.  Worship points should be deducted.

Yep, that is the farthest thing from my mind to do.

My personal faith statement would dictate this.

Bolt

And once again, the three of you have taken what was a conversation, into a destroyed thread. I say three..though, I could have picked four or five...

I truly want to thank you for that.

I can picture you sitting down at a table...where people are chatting.

Rather than listening, you intercede....picking at far flung points, on an argument you get into whenever you are together.

slowly, those at the table quit dialoguing

they get up & walk away

you don't notice...just drink your beer.

thanks

I remind BlackBelt & Chansen of this item from the Guidelines of Conduct.

3. Disruptive Behaviour: You agree not to disrupt or interfere with discussions, blogs, or other community functions of WonderCafe.ca. Disruptive behaviour may include creating a disproportionate number of posts or discussions to disrupt conversation; cross-posting the same post in different discussion threads, creating off-topic posts or intentionally posting them in the wrong discussion category; posting solicitations without permission of WonderCafe.ca; making statements that are deliberately inflammatory; or any behaviour that interferes with conversations or inhibits the ability of others to use and enjoy this website for its intended purposes. This guideline is more one of courtesy, but will be enforced if a member repeatedly displays behaviour intended to be disruptive to others on the site.

Good for you, pinga

I have to be honest & say that is how it looks.

However this thread has just begun. So don't be so quick to judge.

Bolt

Chansen

you dont knwo who Christ angel is? mindfreak

threads done for me, other than to possibly discuss how you have made it difficult to have a conversation regarding the original topic..and what that code of conduct states.

I think pinga is flashing a badge of some sort

nope...

just saying, getting kinda sick of this stuff

Perhaps, sometimes things are not always what they "seem".

Bolt

Maybe things are not looking good here in her opinion so she feels the thread is dead.

Who are we to argue with the one who asked a simple question?

She asked what our faith testimony is & she heard several in some form or another, but I feel she is not happy with what she sees here on this thread she happened to start, with a simple question.

 I guess she isn't happy with how some have chosen to answer?

Bolt

agreed, one at times needs to dish out also to see what they have been giving , i guess thats called

joining the club

Bolt, Blackbelt & Chansen & others

I ask you to personally look at this thread, from the start..and read the posts.

Then, report back to us..if you notice any shifts in volume of posters or style of posting.

If you don't , fine -- state so.

Then, look specifically at the code of conduct in disruptive behaviour....and report back as well, if you see any pattern.

If you don't, fine, -- state so.

***

PS..I'm out for a meeting in about 30min..won't be back online until late.

hmmmm , this fleshly christian sees nada

I've seen statement of faiths all around me here on this thread, not all are like mine but do I complain & raise a red flag of any sorts?

The UCC is geared towards a movement of ministry?

This is a UCC forum & it is open, is it not?

Is this not to bring more people to come to God, or just to your way of thinking?

This forum, no matter how at home it is to me, is as political as any oganized B.S. (belief system) the world would offer.

No different.

There may be of hopes that there may be some who have found the Spirit of God, & I believe there are many here with various measures that I can see.

But then I'm not realy held as an expert on the matter now , am I?

Bolt