Maybe.

That is about as concolusinve as one can be.  It is a possibility.  But it doesn't always happen.

It ties into the whole point of my sermon last week (being reprised next week) about choosing what to do with the tradition.  Our inheritance can be blessing and curse.  But we are part of a tradition and we need to decide what to pass on to those who will follow us.

Oh yes yes, a million times yes.

It's possible to be inclusive of people without compromising/getting rid of beliefs. The Christian church should be what is (or at least what it was meant to be). I think people are more attracted by an authentic, principled vision with integrity than by watering things down.

That said, Christians actually need to live this out in LOVE that springs from the head of the Church, Jesus. Otherwise, it will just be empty, or worse. This is the big sticking point.

If someone wants to be a Unitarian Universalist, fine - they should just know there is a difference between that and being a Christian.

What, exactly, is "what we believe as Christians"?

Beyond the existence of Christ as a person, I can't think of much that is universally held as a "Christian" belief.

witch - a God-figure?

Well, I for one, benefit from Christians relaxing their views and being more inclusive. I think we all do. Why hold on to mindsets that hurt others? We should always listen and be understanding of each other. ANd that often means compromise. That's how we evolve and move forward as a society.

That's not a Christian belief; it's a theist belief.  It certainly predates Christianity.

Sorry, witch; I can't even give you that one.  There are many Christians that either don't believe or don't really care whether or not Jesus of Nazareth is an historical figure.  Rather they look to the message of values that was attributed to the man...cms

Some Christians seem to value 'the way it has always been in this congregation'.  They appear uninterested in study of any kind, changing there views, learning new hymns and widening there understanding of there faith.  Most of all they value 'keeping out people we don't think are just like us'.

That sounds harsh but matches some congregations.  There may be other congregations that are welcoming,  comfortable with questions, accepting of differences.  Some of us haven't met one of those welcoming congregations.

In a worship service, I'm not sure how it can be inclusive of different faiths. I am a Christian and I worship God as a Christian.  Now I would be in favor of joint services with another faith group, where there would be equal planning and worship

I'm lucky in that the main faith I need to incorporate in my life on a day today basis besides Christianity is Judaism - my husband and in-laws are Jewish - and it fits pretty well into my faith tradition lol. And certainly Eastern religions which are less based on the worship of deities can fit in to Christianity as well (my minister describes herself as a Buddhist Christian). And being in the UCC I have to say has been a great balance of my greatest concerns; having married into a Jewish family I have oftentimes felt very self-conscious about my Christianity lest it appear I'm trying to convert or proseletyze my (non-practicing) husband; however I am also very specifically Christian and don't necessarily feel comfortable hiding that light, for lack of a better term, by not going to church or even just focusing on 'spirituality'. I like having an hour a week where I can discuss MY faith as such, and not just faith generally. However, on the other side, obviously I would never feel comfortable with the concepts of non-believers going to hell, for example, or many other fundamentalist viewpoints. The UCC is very welcoming of myself and my family, don't make my husband feel awkward about not taking communion, etc. When we got married we actually had more problems finding a Rabbi who would do a joint service than a minister - thus I have definitely felt that our diversity has been welcomed in the UCC Christian context, without having compromised my Christianity.

Hi crazyheart, I think this is a great question.

I think Christians should be inclusive of everyone, accepting anyone to attend their services. I also think Christians should live tolerantly among those of other views. Now let me clarify.

The meaning of the word 'tolerance' has changed over the years. I hold to the original meaning, which claims that while one disagrees with another (or others), they are willing to live peacefully among them - tolerance wouldn't be tolerance if there was nothing to 'tolerate'. Today, tolerance means accepting that all views are 'true', and if one does not, then they are stigmatized as 'intolerant' or dangerous, etc., (ironically by those who tout that we be 'tolerant' of differing viewpoints).

Today, we see a phenomenon which goes hand in hand with our society's changing beliefs about reality - in the same way that we see the melding of cultures in 'multiculturalism', we are also beginning to see the melding of religious beliefs as well - which I believe to be of infinitely greater implication. People no longer believe that they are subject to reality, but that reality is subject to them. Orthodoxy has become 'flexidoxy'. Since determining reality has traditionally been God's divine office, people are now in effect, God's equal - they are their own 'gods'. But if the reality remains that we must submit to God's will, then this action is plainly idolatrous.

The phenomenon, (among others, ie. religious pluralism) is called 'syncretism'. I like the illustration of a buffet line. The people of the world all line up at a great buffet which contains elements of all the religions, from which they are free to pick and choose the elements which they personally like, and ignore the ones which they find offensive. Today, in our society, the lines are blurred and the parameters which traditionally defined a religion as uniquely its own are being abandoned. However, for whatever reason, some people are still rigidly against losing the name, ie. Christian, when it is unclear what exactly is so 'Christian' (for example)about their beliefs, as opposed to some other religion - or simply a newfangled religion all its own.

"Traditional" Christian beliefs/dogma?  Or the faith embodied in the Message of Jesus?  Yes to the former, thank god; no to the latter.

Hi crazyheart:

I think we can be inclusive without throwing anything away—except exclusiveness!

If religious expression were regarded as art; if it is metaphorical and literary rather than absolutist and literal, then we can inlude different and new metaphors while keeping our beloved old ones. What's more, we'd joyously share our religious expressions with others and just as joyously hear theirs, in a spirit of artistic sharing.

Welcome back, arminius. You have been missed!

Protestant churches are rediscovering value in some of the discarded Roman Catholic traditions. There seems to be a long history of throwing out some of the good along with the bad.

Jesus managed to remain open to all he met without compromising his own identity and beliefs.

In my own experience it is unfortunately all too easy either to shut some people out or else to give in to things I believe are wrong (or both!). I get the balance wrong in both directions. I hope to learn how to imitate Jesus in this.

There are some traditions that will not pass the test of time. There are other traditions that have yet to be created. I like the analogy I heard last Sunday - we are in a parade, and when you're in a parade, you can't see the beginning or the end. You aren't the only one in the parade - each float, person, band, etc makes the parade what it is. So there are those who have come before us and those who will come after. We all have our role to play. We don't need to be the same as those at the front of the parade or behind us, but it's perfectly reasonable to add our own uniqueness. That being said, parades usually have themes - it would be inappropriate to have an Oktoberfest beer float just before Santa Claus in a Santa Claus parade. So there may be changes or accomodations that would not fit with our theme - and I believe that following the way of Christ and finding our place in God's world are central parts of that theme. To ditch that would mean that it's not my parade any more. It's someone else's parade.  Nothing wrong with me watching, but I need not be expected to participate in something that's not meant for me.

Congregations, however, are more likely to put unreasonable limits on what parade they will join. Usually it's things that have nothing to do with our theme:  what music can't be sung, what technologies can't be used, what type of seating can't be used. The question that should be asked when something new is suggested should be: would God approve? Usually that question isn't asked.

"By being inclusive of everyone in our faith communities, are we compromising our Christian beliefs?"

I might change the word "inclusive" to respectful. It's hard to be inclusive if the invitation  isn't accepted. Change may be needed for some areas of Christianity but I don't feel it's necessary to incorporate other faiths beliefs into a Christian service. This doesn't exclude common decency/understanding or putting out a welcome mat for others. IMHO

....hmmmm ....if I may............
Jesus seemed to be all about including everyone...........
As for beliefs ....anything I can talk someone into ... there is someone that can talk them out of it...
If I can be talked into anything then how genuine is it???
For me ....... deep soul searching and coming to a belief is a very personal thing and is something that is entrenched in "free will".    Anything that I just accept without due diligence to myself is very suspect.   Seems to me I can be right for all the "wrong" reasons .... and ...wrong for all the "right" reasons.   Paradoxes ... I love them! LOL
My point is this ...... we often subsitute the comfort of what we have always known and done for the reason it was instituted in the first place.    I treat traditions like food in my fridge ...... once in a while it is a good thing to go through the fridge and clean out the leftovers that have gone bad and make the good leftovers into something different and tasty.   I know this is a very poor explanation so please take that into account in your comments.   I often have trouble expressing what is in my heart in a way that others can relate to ...... so I just try different approaches and hope you are listening more to my heart than to my words.   Kinda like church should be perhaps???
Thank you for letting me say a bit....
Sincerely
Rita

Good to see you again Arminius! I missed you too! I just watched a program about Arminius the Germani leader during the Roman empire last night. Good to learn!

Hi, CH,

We've tried the throwing everything away approach in UU'ism and it doesn't necessarily lead to inclusivity, just another kind of exclusivity. That is, you exclude those people who find music, prayers, God, etc. meaningful. We've had to compromise by ensuring that we include these things, but also those things that are meaningful to people who aren't into traditional religion (e.g. our secular humanists). For instance, we may sing and pray in the service, but immediately after, we have a discussion of the topic, which is something that the more humanistic branch of our faith values.

In UU'ism, it's vital that we be inclusive. It's embodied in our principles and sources. In Christianity, however, there is a core that could, indeed, be compromised depending on how you approach inclusivity. Ultimately, Christianity, to me at least, is about following Jesus Christ as embodied in his story and teachings. And those teachings are powerful and vital. Love, forgiveness, etc. are values almost anyone can get behind. A Christianity that recognizes the power of the Christ myth (for such the story is) and of the teachings of the man Jesus can be inclusive simply by living out the values embodied in that myth. If you dump the Christ myth and simply focus on "core teachings" of the man Jesus as some progressives are urging, or start drawing deeply on non-Christian traditions for your wisdom, there is little to distinguish you from UUism and your identity as Christians will change in some way. It's not my place as someone who has already made the decision to change my religious identity to say whether this is good or bad, but it is something that Christians who promote "throwing the baby out with the bathwater" need to consider.

Mendalla

Hi Crazy...I think it's mostly how you view it, individually.  The music, prayers and traditions are far, far down my list of importance.  The spiritual connection to a source that is the source of all is of greatest importance, to me.

Patience is key when it comes to change.  People grow and evolve at different levels and I think there's room for growth and tradition co-existing.  Expecting everyone to be the same and feel the same in a congregation can only be attained by squelching a personal relationship with mystery.  That's bass ackwards as a church's role, to me.

I love your 'cleaning out the fridge" analogy, RitaTG -- it's appropriate IMO because it suggests nourishment and spiritual sustenance.

....and it's nice to see you again, too.