Our church is running this 12 week group study which provides an in-depth Christian Worldview experience starting next week, and I think it is kicking off across the country as well.
Is this something you could see your church doing?
No replies yet? Just be patient. The line-up for this thread is very long....... ! I'm bumping it up top for you.
chansen
Posted on: 09/17/2009 12:08
Oh good. "Focus on the Family" is back, this time with a DVD box set, instructing good Christians on how to think. This is the same group who started "Love Won Out" - a ministry devoted to "conversion therapy" for homosexuals.
They're a bunch of creationists who advocate not only blurring, but erasing the line between church and state. They openly supported Mike Huckabee in the Republican primaries, and supported the McCain/Palin ticket after Palin was added.
You might be able to find a more reprehensible bunch of folks, but you would have to look awfully hard.
Autumn_Rush
Posted on: 09/17/2009 12:10
My church is doing that. My mom did it a couple months ago, and sings it's praises, I am doing it starting in a couple of weeks. There isn't much explanation to what it is, but it seems worth a go.
blackbelt
Posted on: 09/17/2009 12:35
Looks interesting, wonderful ministry , for me it took me awhile to understand what truth is when I became a born again Christian, or sure I read it in the bible but didn’t understand it, but as time went by God began to let me understand what truth is , simply God is Truth , every time I am in God what I see is truth
RichardBott
Posted on: 09/17/2009 12:35
Hi, SnP -
I'd like to view the actual video before I'd commit myself to using it. I don't often find myself agreeing with Focus On the Family's interpreation of scripture.
One thing I noted from the promo - and something that concerns me - the 'production values' of the different segments. The people who were speaking about truth being relative - the woman on the quad, the man with the buddhist figures to his left, and the woman wearing the interlocking circles on a pendant - were in 'non-planned' interview style, while the men speaking on behalf of the project were shown in scripted interview format. Subtle - but such techniques can (and often do) bias the viewer's interpretation of what is being said.
Christ's peace - r
chansen
Posted on: 09/17/2009 12:44
Turns out, Focus on the Family recently transferred their Love Won Out ministry to another Christian group, not because it was ineffective, damaging, and the American Psychiatric Association warns against "conversion therapy", but because Love Won Out was losing money.
Incidentally, The Truth Project DVDs are widely available on public filesharing sites. Please don't buy them from Focus on the Family.
RichardBott
Posted on: 09/17/2009 12:49
Thanks, Chansen - I'd be borrowing them, or asking Focus on the Family for a review copy, to see what they're saying - before I'd ever think of buying them.
Christ's peace - r
chansen
Posted on: 09/17/2009 12:57
Actually, turns out I was wrong. It's not available from filesharing sites.
I'd still ask that you not give these bastards any money.
elisabeth
Posted on: 09/18/2009 00:46
Interesting - we are having a discussion right now in our church as to whether or not it is appropriate to teach an adult education session authored by someone who supports discrimination on the basis of race, sexual orientation, gender etc. An example of this is Purpose Driven Life by Rick Warren. Same argument as you should only drink Free Trade coffee otherwise you are part of the problem. Some of the people were arguing that the programs should be allowed to be taught and allow people to agree or not. However, it seems to me that allowing people to disagree does not solve the problem because by paying money to the author the church is still actively supporting discrimination which if your church is a member of the United Church of Canada is directly contravening a motion that was recently passed at the 40th General Counsel as well as being immmoral in my respectful opinion.
jon71
Posted on: 09/18/2009 04:12
elisabeth wrote:
Interesting - we are having a discussion right now in our church as to whether or not it is appropriate to teach an adult education session authored by someone who supports discrimination on the basis of race, sexual orientation, gender etc. An example of this is Purpose Driven Life by Rick Warren. Same argument as you should only drink Free Trade coffee otherwise you are part of the problem. Some of the people were arguing that the programs should be allowed to be taught and allow people to agree or not. However, it seems to me that allowing people to disagree does not solve the problem because by paying money to the author the church is still actively supporting discrimination which if your church is a member of the United Church of Canada is directly contravening a motion that was recently passed at the 40th General Counsel as well as being immmoral in my respectful opinion.
I'm glad that your church is at least looking at doing the right thing. Personally I'd never give James Dobson and co. one red cent.
WaterBuoy
Posted on: 09/18/2009 08:26
Can we not learn something from the negative side ... when bad results come out of an action?
St Augustine stated that the Romans wanted no public forum on bad news, or the dark side. This freed people up to do what they wanted over and over again because the powers would never hear from the objects of injury.
All we ever hear of is follow the heart ... very seldom a caution about treading lightly as you expand your "Love" without a thought. Be careful of the man ... he's a thinker ... he's dangerous to my ideal of following the desire.
Is there a pall that hangs over the Roman Roues about power of Love/God is all there is? Is there not a wee smack of Light buried out there in the cosmos? Black and White of a story in the soul a' m'n ... is that all we need ... a grey pearly mind of duality so we can swing the scales of balance ... Sophae ... or for the Love of Sophy ... philosophy ... the study of thought patterns ... a matrix in space? Monotheism will starve one part of the incarnation of the bi nomial soul ... the brae 'n! IT's like a wee dimple in space ... metaphor for Einstein's mysterious blip in the cosmos ... near nothing in the hole thing! A mote in the poe-L of dark Ness of God's pupil ... the infinite scholar.
An individual needs a brush with this two sided creature the Romans called Janus, or I-nous in other tongues ... the very capture of your soul with the awe of IT all. But mankind is afraid of the whole thing ... and Love is lost to greed! Such is biblical chaos: "Beware of the jealous Gods!" Are there many? Too many for the earth to support without sharing light ... communion, communication and we can't publicise the sins that injure. My God we'd be eliminating a great number of O Thor IDees!
Could St. Augustine be considered a burning wind to authority with his tendancy to satire? Ah, the father of satyr ... we should get to know the devil as he holds the secret of the story ... bi shop of Hypo ... and you thought a tiery mind wasn't whetted ... just soggy! Try Ur when she's frigid about your desires to control the whole physical realm. Would you be allowed to cross the line with such attitudes about the Mosaic Roues about the painnfull one that makes you think? If the powers have their way in the secrecy acts ... we won't be allowed to think what-so-ever ... just a flock of desert burros, sheep hidden in the san of time!
How many think the mind of God is Ephraim din myth about the chaos of Love? You can't make something out of nothing without an purely opposing opposite ... a mystery of thinking space ... rare as an imperfection in a dimension of passion that could be heaven on earth with a wee bit of light thought! Isn't that Plasma? Like bloody Lite as a curse to authority!
GordW
Posted on: 09/18/2009 09:15
elisabeth wrote:
Interesting - we are having a discussion right now in our church as to whether or not it is appropriate to teach an adult education session authored by someone who supports discrimination on the basis of race, sexual orientation, gender etc. An example of this is Purpose Driven Life by Rick Warren. Same argument as you should only drink Free Trade coffee otherwise you are part of the problem. Some of the people were arguing that the programs should be allowed to be taught and allow people to agree or not. However, it seems to me that allowing people to disagree does not solve the problem because by paying money to the author the church is still actively supporting discrimination which if your church is a member of the United Church of Canada is directly contravening a motion that was recently passed at the 40th General Counsel as well as being immmoral in my respectful opinion.
Depending how one reads the motion it may not be contravening the motion. THe intent certainly but not the motion. The motion calls for all congregations to discuss the issue. Congregatons are still totally free to decide that they theologically can not accept same-gender marriage for example. ALl tht is being asked is thqt the discussion happen.
RichardBott
Posted on: 09/18/2009 11:07
Hi, Elisabeth -
One could use the tool, to deconstruct it, exploring how its message does / does not fit with a particular theology or worldview. To only use tools from sources that agree with one's perspective give little chance for that.
I'd like to also point out that narrowing where we seek out tools as much as is suggested in your post would mean that we couldn't use studies from much of the Anglican Church, the Presbyterian Church, the Methodist Church, the Roman Catholic church and a whole bunch of other churches. I hate to say it, but that would narrow what we could use a huge amount.
We also need to recognize that within The UCCan there are ministers and other writers who might not agree with General Council's stances around... oh... say... sexuality - does that mean we stop using UCCan resources, because some of the writers who get paid through that process may discriminate?
What are the "we will not cross this" lines? We won't purchase from actively racist, heterosexist, eurocentric, sexist, etc. organizations? Subtly racist, heterosexist, eurocentric,sexist, etc. organizaitons? Organizations with a statement against racism, hetersexism, eurocentrism, sexism, but with authors who may not sign on? Organizations who state that no one on their writing or publishing team holds racist, heterosexist, eurocentric, sexist, etc. views?
Christ's peace - r
Witch
Posted on: 09/18/2009 11:50
What eactly IS this "Christian worldview"?
From what I can see, Christianity is like most religions. The range of beliefs is so wide and varied that there really is no "Christian Worldview".
Personally I think that's a good thing, but it does mean that there are more than enough sects in Christianity, just like in other religions, who think they are special enough that their particular little slice of the pie is the only correct "Christian Worldview".
Focus on (screwing over) the Family certainly fits that description.
troyerboy
Posted on: 09/18/2009 18:37
Witch wrote:
Personally I think that's a good thing, but it does mean that there are more than enough sects in Christianity, just like in other religions, who think they are special enough that their particular little slice of the pie is the only correct "Christian Worldview".
And here I was about to launch my very own sect and claim it to be the only true Christian religion. The basis is I'm going to heaven and eveyone else is going to hell. There now, I can't be wrong can I? LOL
blackbelt
Posted on: 09/18/2009 19:41
troyerboy wrote:
Witch wrote:
Personally I think that's a good thing, but it does mean that there are more than enough sects in Christianity, just like in other religions, who think they are special enough that their particular little slice of the pie is the only correct "Christian Worldview".
And here I was about to launch my very own sect and claim it to be the only true Christian religion. The basis is I'm going to heaven and eveyone else is going to hell. There now, I can't be wrong can I? LOL
you cant do that , because I have the only true sect aleardy
Witch
Posted on: 09/18/2009 19:54
Wait a minute, I thought Waterfall had the true sect this week....
GordW
Posted on: 09/18/2009 20:17
True sects???? We're looking for true sects?????
Oh, the word is spelled didfferently. My bad.
WaterBuoy
Posted on: 09/19/2009 07:45
A'M'N Gord! Is a Gord like a midnight pump kyn where yah stoes your wisdom?
Comments
stardust
Posted on: 09/17/2009 11:15
SNP
Hello there!
No replies yet? Just be patient. The line-up for this thread is very long.......
! I'm bumping it up top for you.
chansen
Posted on: 09/17/2009 12:08
Oh good. "Focus on the Family" is back, this time with a DVD box set, instructing good Christians on how to think. This is the same group who started "Love Won Out" - a ministry devoted to "conversion therapy" for homosexuals.
They're a bunch of creationists who advocate not only blurring, but erasing the line between church and state. They openly supported Mike Huckabee in the Republican primaries, and supported the McCain/Palin ticket after Palin was added.
You might be able to find a more reprehensible bunch of folks, but you would have to look awfully hard.
Autumn_Rush
Posted on: 09/17/2009 12:10
My church is doing that. My mom did it a couple months ago, and sings it's praises, I am doing it starting in a couple of weeks. There isn't much explanation to what it is, but it seems worth a go.
blackbelt
Posted on: 09/17/2009 12:35
RichardBott
Posted on: 09/17/2009 12:35
Hi, SnP -
I'd like to view the actual video before I'd commit myself to using it. I don't often find myself agreeing with Focus On the Family's interpreation of scripture.
One thing I noted from the promo - and something that concerns me - the 'production values' of the different segments. The people who were speaking about truth being relative - the woman on the quad, the man with the buddhist figures to his left, and the woman wearing the interlocking circles on a pendant - were in 'non-planned' interview style, while the men speaking on behalf of the project were shown in scripted interview format. Subtle - but such techniques can (and often do) bias the viewer's interpretation of what is being said.
Christ's peace - r
chansen
Posted on: 09/17/2009 12:44
Turns out, Focus on the Family recently transferred their Love Won Out ministry to another Christian group, not because it was ineffective, damaging, and the American Psychiatric Association warns against "conversion therapy", but because Love Won Out was losing money.
http://www.denverpost.com/ci_13049629
Incidentally, The Truth Project DVDs are widely available on public filesharing sites. Please don't buy them from Focus on the Family.
RichardBott
Posted on: 09/17/2009 12:49
Thanks, Chansen - I'd be borrowing them, or asking Focus on the Family for a review copy, to see what they're saying - before I'd ever think of buying them.
Christ's peace - r
chansen
Posted on: 09/17/2009 12:57
Actually, turns out I was wrong. It's not available from filesharing sites.
I'd still ask that you not give these bastards any money.
elisabeth
Posted on: 09/18/2009 00:46
Interesting - we are having a discussion right now in our church as to whether or not it is appropriate to teach an adult education session authored by someone who supports discrimination on the basis of race, sexual orientation, gender etc. An example of this is Purpose Driven Life by Rick Warren. Same argument as you should only drink Free Trade coffee otherwise you are part of the problem. Some of the people were arguing that the programs should be allowed to be taught and allow people to agree or not. However, it seems to me that allowing people to disagree does not solve the problem because by paying money to the author the church is still actively supporting discrimination which if your church is a member of the United Church of Canada is directly contravening a motion that was recently passed at the 40th General Counsel as well as being immmoral in my respectful opinion.
jon71
Posted on: 09/18/2009 04:12
Interesting - we are having a discussion right now in our church as to whether or not it is appropriate to teach an adult education session authored by someone who supports discrimination on the basis of race, sexual orientation, gender etc. An example of this is Purpose Driven Life by Rick Warren. Same argument as you should only drink Free Trade coffee otherwise you are part of the problem. Some of the people were arguing that the programs should be allowed to be taught and allow people to agree or not. However, it seems to me that allowing people to disagree does not solve the problem because by paying money to the author the church is still actively supporting discrimination which if your church is a member of the United Church of Canada is directly contravening a motion that was recently passed at the 40th General Counsel as well as being immmoral in my respectful opinion.
I'm glad that your church is at least looking at doing the right thing. Personally I'd never give James Dobson and co. one red cent.
WaterBuoy
Posted on: 09/18/2009 08:26
Can we not learn something from the negative side ... when bad results come out of an action?
St Augustine stated that the Romans wanted no public forum on bad news, or the dark side. This freed people up to do what they wanted over and over again because the powers would never hear from the objects of injury.
All we ever hear of is follow the heart ... very seldom a caution about treading lightly as you expand your "Love" without a thought. Be careful of the man ... he's a thinker ... he's dangerous to my ideal of following the desire.
Is there a pall that hangs over the Roman Roues about power of Love/God is all there is? Is there not a wee smack of Light buried out there in the cosmos? Black and White of a story in the soul a' m'n ... is that all we need ... a grey pearly mind of duality so we can swing the scales of balance ... Sophae ... or for the Love of Sophy ... philosophy ... the study of thought patterns ... a matrix in space? Monotheism will starve one part of the incarnation of the bi nomial soul ... the brae 'n! IT's like a wee dimple in space ... metaphor for Einstein's mysterious blip in the cosmos ... near nothing in the hole thing! A mote in the poe-L of dark Ness of God's pupil ... the infinite scholar.
An individual needs a brush with this two sided creature the Romans called Janus, or I-nous in other tongues ... the very capture of your soul with the awe of IT all. But mankind is afraid of the whole thing ... and Love is lost to greed! Such is biblical chaos: "Beware of the jealous Gods!" Are there many? Too many for the earth to support without sharing light ... communion, communication and we can't publicise the sins that injure. My God we'd be eliminating a great number of O Thor IDees!
Could St. Augustine be considered a burning wind to authority with his tendancy to satire? Ah, the father of satyr ... we should get to know the devil as he holds the secret of the story ... bi shop of Hypo ... and you thought a tiery mind wasn't whetted ... just soggy! Try Ur when she's frigid about your desires to control the whole physical realm. Would you be allowed to cross the line with such attitudes about the Mosaic Roues about the painnfull one that makes you think? If the powers have their way in the secrecy acts ... we won't be allowed to think what-so-ever ... just a flock of desert burros, sheep hidden in the san of time!
How many think the mind of God is Ephraim din myth about the chaos of Love? You can't make something out of nothing without an purely opposing opposite ... a mystery of thinking space ... rare as an imperfection in a dimension of passion that could be heaven on earth with a wee bit of light thought! Isn't that Plasma? Like bloody Lite as a curse to authority!
GordW
Posted on: 09/18/2009 09:15
Interesting - we are having a discussion right now in our church as to whether or not it is appropriate to teach an adult education session authored by someone who supports discrimination on the basis of race, sexual orientation, gender etc. An example of this is Purpose Driven Life by Rick Warren. Same argument as you should only drink Free Trade coffee otherwise you are part of the problem. Some of the people were arguing that the programs should be allowed to be taught and allow people to agree or not. However, it seems to me that allowing people to disagree does not solve the problem because by paying money to the author the church is still actively supporting discrimination which if your church is a member of the United Church of Canada is directly contravening a motion that was recently passed at the 40th General Counsel as well as being immmoral in my respectful opinion.
Depending how one reads the motion it may not be contravening the motion. THe intent certainly but not the motion. The motion calls for all congregations to discuss the issue. Congregatons are still totally free to decide that they theologically can not accept same-gender marriage for example. ALl tht is being asked is thqt the discussion happen.
RichardBott
Posted on: 09/18/2009 11:07
Hi, Elisabeth -
One could use the tool, to deconstruct it, exploring how its message does / does not fit with a particular theology or worldview. To only use tools from sources that agree with one's perspective give little chance for that.
I'd like to also point out that narrowing where we seek out tools as much as is suggested in your post would mean that we couldn't use studies from much of the Anglican Church, the Presbyterian Church, the Methodist Church, the Roman Catholic church and a whole bunch of other churches. I hate to say it, but that would narrow what we could use a huge amount.
We also need to recognize that within The UCCan there are ministers and other writers who might not agree with General Council's stances around... oh... say... sexuality - does that mean we stop using UCCan resources, because some of the writers who get paid through that process may discriminate?
What are the "we will not cross this" lines? We won't purchase from actively racist, heterosexist, eurocentric, sexist, etc. organizations? Subtly racist, heterosexist, eurocentric,sexist, etc. organizaitons? Organizations with a statement against racism, hetersexism, eurocentrism, sexism, but with authors who may not sign on? Organizations who state that no one on their writing or publishing team holds racist, heterosexist, eurocentric, sexist, etc. views?
Christ's peace - r
Witch
Posted on: 09/18/2009 11:50
What eactly IS this "Christian worldview"?
From what I can see, Christianity is like most religions. The range of beliefs is so wide and varied that there really is no "Christian Worldview".
Personally I think that's a good thing, but it does mean that there are more than enough sects in Christianity, just like in other religions, who think they are special enough that their particular little slice of the pie is the only correct "Christian Worldview".
Focus on (screwing over) the Family certainly fits that description.
troyerboy
Posted on: 09/18/2009 18:37
Personally I think that's a good thing, but it does mean that there are more than enough sects in Christianity, just like in other religions, who think they are special enough that their particular little slice of the pie is the only correct "Christian Worldview".
And here I was about to launch my very own sect and claim it to be the only true Christian religion. The basis is I'm going to heaven and eveyone else is going to hell. There now, I can't be wrong can I? LOL
blackbelt
Posted on: 09/18/2009 19:41
Personally I think that's a good thing, but it does mean that there are more than enough sects in Christianity, just like in other religions, who think they are special enough that their particular little slice of the pie is the only correct "Christian Worldview".
And here I was about to launch my very own sect and claim it to be the only true Christian religion. The basis is I'm going to heaven and eveyone else is going to hell. There now, I can't be wrong can I? LOL
you cant do that , because I have the only true sect aleardy
Witch
Posted on: 09/18/2009 19:54
Wait a minute, I thought Waterfall had the true sect this week....
GordW
Posted on: 09/18/2009 20:17
True sects???? We're looking for true sects?????
Oh, the word is spelled didfferently. My bad.
WaterBuoy
Posted on: 09/19/2009 07:45
A'M'N Gord! Is a Gord like a midnight pump kyn where yah stoes your wisdom?
Just cedes fur th' aught in the wild spirit!