Steve Jobs has been called a visionary.
Jesus was a visionary.
Can the two be compatible with each other and the word visionary? Seem like two different visions to me. What do you think?
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Comments
GordW
Posted on: 10/06/2011 23:08
THere are and have been lots of visionaries. They do not all have compatible visions.
A visionary is one who sees a way and gets others to follow. Generally (imo) the term is used for people who, if they had not gotten others to follow, would otherwise have been called hopeless dreamers
crazyheart
Posted on: 10/07/2011 12:24
So are you saying hat Jesus could have been a hopeless dreamer?
weeze
Posted on: 10/07/2011 12:26
Lots of people thought he was and think he was. Let us not be tempted to despair...
crazyheart
Posted on: 10/07/2011 12:29
weeze, if we had no dreamers in this world, nothing would get done. It is when others catch the dream.
Mendalla
Posted on: 10/07/2011 13:15
The term "visionary" does not say anything about what the vision is. Jesus envisioned a reform of his world, a return to the values espoused by the prophets, a more compassionate and forgiving way of living the Law. Steve Jobs envisioned a world where anyone can use and benefit from technology to communicate and entertain. Both espoused those visions in different ways, too. Jesus became an itinerate preacher and teacher and built up his following from those who heard the message. Steve Jobs started one of the most successful companies of my lifetime and built products in keeping with his vision that people embraced. Both visionaries, even if the visions are different. Both dreamers, in their way, who shared their dream and got others to dream it, too.
The thing is, to really be a visionary, you do need to be more than a dreamer. You also need to have the communication skills to get that dream across. I'm sure that there are many dreamers out there who never get hailed as visionaries not because their dream isn't good, but because they can't get others to dream it.
For instance, Martin Luther King, Jr. was not the first person to dream of an America free from discrimination, but he also packed the oratorical and organizational skills to bring those who shared the dream together and to bring others into that dream.
Now, a really interesting discussion at this point is what is the difference between a prophet and a visionary? In some regards, there isn't . A prophet is, in many respects, a special case of visionary. However, prophets are generally seen as visionaries within a specific sphere; with calling people to account in the name of God or some other moral or spiritual force and promoting a vision associated with said moral or spiritual force. So Jesus is seen by many as a prophet, MLK, Jr. is seen as a modern prophet by some, but I doubt any but the most hardcore iFans would call Steve Jobs a prophet, though he was most certainly a visionary.
Mendalla
Neo
Posted on: 10/07/2011 19:53
weeze, if we had no dreamers in this world, nothing would get done. It is when others catch the dream.
Worth repeating.
blackbelt
Posted on: 10/07/2011 19:57
weeze, if we had no dreamers in this world, nothing would get done. It is when others catch the dream.
Worth repeating.
is it?
Hitler had a dream too
Pilgrims Progress
Posted on: 10/07/2011 20:04
Hitler had a dream too
Naaa, that was a nightmare.
blackbelt
Posted on: 10/07/2011 20:10
Hitler had a dream too
Naaa, that was a nightmare.
LOL
I stand corrected :)
Mendalla
Posted on: 10/07/2011 20:12
Interesting point about Hitler. Can a visionary have a wrong vision? Certainly Hitler meets most of the criteria we would generally associate with a visionary. The problem is that the vision depended on destruction and hatred as its unifying forces, which ultimately destroyed the vision and visionary. For someone to be seen as "visionary", I think the vision has to have some kind of broad reach and staying power and I don't think Hitler's vision had that save for a short time and save for the small number of reactionaries who still lionize him today. A vision that relies on destruction and hatred, it seems to me, will likely come to an end in destruction and hatred.
Mendalla
Neo
Posted on: 10/07/2011 20:14
It's on the mental plane that the great Ones communicate with us. This is where the best dreams originate from. If we catch on to a vision we begin to think together and act as one. And if that vision has directed energy driving it then amazing things can happen. Good and bad.
When it's good, thinking as one enables us to "connect the dots" easier, to steal a metaphor from Steve Jobs. And thinking together and acting as one has powerful effects on our psyche. We become stronger and more effective with unity.
Sometimes all it takes a dream to start the movement in the first place.
Neo
Posted on: 10/07/2011 20:16
weeze, if we had no dreamers in this world, nothing would get done. It is when others catch the dream.
Worth repeating.
is it?
Hitler had a dream too
So we should stop dreaming?
You're such a glass half empty kind of guy sometimes.
blackbelt
Posted on: 10/07/2011 20:35
weeze, if we had no dreamers in this world, nothing would get done. It is when others catch the dream.
Worth repeating.
is it?
Hitler had a dream too
So we should stop dreaming?
You're such a glass half empty kind of guy sometimes.
dreamers dream all sorts of things, if you believe every dream is good or worth repeating , well then, your a
dreamer
Neo
Posted on: 10/07/2011 21:52
ha, ha, for sure if you remain a dreamer. But the greatest ideas ever conceived and responded to by the human race started our as dreams and visions. All of our science, our religion and our philosophies started out as visions in our collective minds. Once manifested, they become reality. If not responded to, they become like unfertilised seeds on the ground.
Edit to add: Even in the third verse of the Bible, God, it could be easily assumed, thought about there being light before uttering the sound "let there be light".
blackbelt
Posted on: 10/07/2011 21:59
ha, ha, for sure if you remain a dreamer. But the greatest ideas ever conceived and responded to by the human race started our as dreams and visions. All of our science, our religion and our philosophies started out as visions in our collective minds. Once manifested, they become reality. If not responded to, they become like unfertilised seeds on the ground.
indeed, a thought, a vision, a dream, an idea,
one would be wise indeed to know its origins
Neo
Posted on: 10/07/2011 22:06
This seems like a good thread to watch one of Americas greatest dreamers.
Martin Luther King's dream changed America forever. A most definitely "good" dream.
Let freedom reign.
blackbelt
Posted on: 10/07/2011 22:13
or this BIIG Vision
http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x18a5r_cnn-dobbs-dream-of-a-new-world-orde_news
Neo
Posted on: 10/07/2011 22:30
Of course this type of vision has no sincerity or even honesty associated with it, let alone any real compassion to those who are need.
Your fear of the new world order is making you paranoid. Recognize things for what they are. It's easy to see through bullshit if you see things objectively and with honesty and sincerity. I'm surprised you didn't post any videos of Hitler and his dream in 1936. The same metal that makes a sword is used to make a plow share. Dreams are no different.
As you say above about dreams: "one would be wise indeed to know its origin". Or even if one knew the real intent of a dream then it would be easily see if the dream is for the good of the people or is just another shade of lipstick on a pig.
blackbelt
Posted on: 10/07/2011 22:38
Your fear of the new world order is making you paranoid
I have no fear, I have Jesus , perfect love casts out all fear
As you say above about dreams: "one would be wise indeed to know its origin". Or even if one knew the real intent of a dream then it would be easily see if the dream is for the good of the people or is just another shade of lipstick on a pig.
agreed, my helper, opens my eyes to see