I heard about this, (yes on Christian radio this morning), and I have to admit I'm not familiar with it. It seems that warning others away from the doctrine of Balaam is contrary to todays Christian thinking. Is it encouraging racism?  We are told in the Bible not to follow Balaams doctrine.

Hi Waterfall,

The Doctrine of Balaam is essentially the weakening of the faithful.

In scripture Balaam was a prophet who was paid to curse Israel so that their enemy (King Balak) would have an advantage over them.  God prevented this from happening.

Balaam then advised Balak to use the most beautiful women he had at his disposal to seduce Isrealite men and convince them to participate in pagan practices.  This spiritual unfaithfulness would lead to God implementing the curses portion of the covenant against Israel and weakening them to a point where Balak could attack them successfully.

That was some time ago.

The Doctrine of Balak may refer to anything which corrupts the Christian faith.  Bearing in mind that the "corrupting influence" is subject to personal bias.  Or it may refer to individuals paid to do ministry and the clergy-laity division within the Church.

Depends on whom you are talking to.

Some Christians (particularly young earth creationists) would consider other Christians who accept the findings of evolutionary science as individuals who have fallen for the Doctrine of Balak.

For these folk Evolution/Creation is an either/or proposition.

Other Christians would look at The United Church of Canada, note that we have clergy-laity division and jump to the conclusion that we, as a denomination, have fallen for the Doctrin of Balak.

For these folk there is no distinction one from the other.  All are teachers, all are prophets, all have precisely the same gifts as any other.

Grace and peace to you.

John

So God doesn't want anyone in the Ministry to be paid?

Also, does this doctrine encourage intermarriage and God is against this? (sounds racist)

Why is Jesus telling us to avoid this doctrine?

Hi waterfall,

That would be how some interpret the Doctrine.  Others would suggest that having outside sources pay for ministry to be done results in a ministry that is more concerned with being paid than being effective.

On a racial level it neither encourages or discourages intermarriage.  On a spiritual level it certainly discourages intermarriage.  If a Christian marries a non-Christian then the non-Christian spouse would be considered a contamination that might infect the Christian spouse.

No thought is given to the contagion spreading the other way unless you are Mark Mittleberg and others at Willow Creek.

We'd probably have to have a firmer grasp on what the Doctrine actually is about to begin to answer that.

If we focus on divided loyalties then it would appear Jesus is more concerned about us focusing on the Kingdom rather than having our thoughts scattered here and there.

Grace and peace to you.

John

I'm including an article that states that when church leaders teach that the New testament (and the crucifixion) nullifies the teachings from the Torah/ Old testament, they are teaching the Doctrine of Balaam.

http://www.thewayprepared.com/studies/doctrine-of-balaam-today-a-warning...

I'm confused. Is this article suggesting that "man"  is using the crucifixion to blend man's ways with God's way in a way that takes us away from God's intentions. Is this article accurate?

I really appreciate your answering Revjohn, I really don't know much about this "warning". It is also in Revelation.

Hi Waterfall,

The article, particularly when it discusses contemporary examples, argues that the doctrine of Balaam occurs when people teach that the commandments of the Old Testament are nullified by Christianity.

What is nullified, according to the article is not the Torah but the Talmud.  In essence God's revelation to the Jews is still valid but Jewish commentary on that revelation is not to be trusted.

In short, unless it appears in the scriptures (literally) it is not of God.

So, The Lord's Supper, unless it is a passover seder is a figment of human imagination and participation in it is idolatry.

The author of the piece is a rigourist who probably thinks the Donatists got a raw deal.

The Doctrine of Balaam, like the Prayer of Jabez is an attempt to make a mountain out of a molehill.  Regretably both are used of late as ways to deningrate other Christians.

Grace and peace to you.

John

Hi waterfall,

It is connected to the Nicolaitans and as such probably informed by understanding who they were.

Depending upon who you read the Nicolaitans either were antinomians (against the law) and lived lives of indulgence including eating meat sacrificed to idols.  Or, they were folks who dominated the people (nico meaning to dominate and laity meaning people).

The connection to Balaam makes the latter understanding more likely.

Balaam tried to seduce the people of Israel, to trip them up and rob them of the blessings of the Covenant.

The Nicolaitans tried to dominate the people and control every aspect of their lives.

Both are attacking the liberty of the believer.  Something Jesus spoke out against from time to time.

Grace and peace to you.

John

Hi waterfall 

This is a very interesting subject and seems to me to be very important for people to understand especially Ministers Today ----

this is an article on this and I found it very imformative and quite an important part of the Bible to understand -----it covers the doctrine of Balaam ----  

http://www.lmci.org/articles.cfm?Article=9

OVERCOMING the
Spirit of Balaam

by Dale M. Sides

Anything that goes against blind faith is considered as from BaLaam, or Mol Loch a closed pool related to Taurus ... one could say an outside or outlandish BS ... or just pure bull if you think about Caesars as  Mortal Gods who initiated this bull about people not using common sense (or even uncommon sense) that made them at the top uneasy. This was the origin of the imaginary Ankh as derived from Egypt ... the LANs of myth ... a local area networking in de misty brae'n! Ediyfication of creepage in the plastic brain? If you don't accept the abyssimal spirit on the mystical brain ... you'll never recognize it when leaving 'ere!

In Celtic lands this was called Molly IHC Entire (mudder of God I say is baseline, or well-grounded eddy-like structure allowing for edifice in twirl or Dan's) where Molly, the shell fish lady could blow your mind, in ways that creation made natural ... but many Christians following Roman Legend say this is a creation of the devil ... and must originate in the head ... even David collected foreskins of heads of such and thus the people felt scalped ... as thoughts are the devil and should be removed!

Now in Italy Molly was substituted by the Rising of V'Nus (Botechelli?) since the Roman's would also have it their way ...

Why a person should know all tongues if you are to enjoy all facets of passion as expressed in foreign intellects ... isn't that strange? You know how the siezed faithful are about anything strange ... they won't even quenstion what's that a'bote ...

I did have a look at that article unsafe....

It would appear that many of the "healing" ministries and "evangelistic" ministries are in trouble.

Merchandising and deceptive doctrine ..... hmmm ..... well said...

In my opinion deceptive doctrine would also include positions that are held onto despite information to the contrary.

One example would be the LGBT community.....

Good post....

Regards

Rita

Not sure if you're saying here that positions are held in regard to the LGBT community, or rather that the LGBT community is holding certain positions. In either case, what are the positions, and what is the information that they run contrary to?

I shall try and clarify Dcn Jae....

I am referring to the position of doctrine that labels being gay or trans as sin.

I am referring to the doctrine that says you can be gay or trans ..... just don't express that truth in the way you live...

The information ... research both from a medical and biblical persepectives are quite clear that (a) being gay or trans is not simply a choice, it is how we are created... and (b) the theology regarding being gay and trans is very primitive and biased and is being held onto even in the face of very good scholarly reseach.

It is the outright rejection and refusal to consider any other information that I refer to as willful ignorance.

A quick google search of the anti gay positions held by many in the conservative evangelical camp will demonstrate that quite well.   In the USA the Southern Baptist Convention is a useful example.

A recent book just pblished by Matthew Vines "God and the Gay Christian" has received and astonishing backlash by the conservative movement.   And that is without even fairly considering and addressing the points made in the book.

By the way ... the book is simply a more personal and easier reading presentation of information and scholarly biblical research that has already been done and has been widely available for quite some time.

I would suggest that you get that book and consider the case made.   After all, you do want to be a minister and it would be prudent to be sure of your position on this very important issue that personally affects the lives of those you will be ministering to.

Regards

Rita

A great lesson to learn and take away from Balaam  is this ----You can't curse what God has blessed -----

Balaam’s Second Prophecy

¹³ Then Balak said to him, “Please come with me to another place, where you can see the Israelites. You will see only some of them, not all of them. Curse them for me from there.”

¹⁶ The Lord came to Balaam and told him, “Go back to Balak, and give him my message.”

¹⁷ He came to Balak and found him standing beside his burnt offering with the princes of Moab. Balak asked him, “What did the Lord say?” ¹⁸ Then Balaam delivered this message:

If only those that so vehemently oppose LGBT persons would consider that......

What I am is not sin .... choosing to express that truth in a wholesome way is not sin..... I am not cursed by God.   I am blessed....

Regards

Rita

Wrong thread

Thank you for your response RitaTG.

I have heard of the Matthew Vines book. A friend of mine who used to be a Baptist pastor posted on Facebook this link to an article about it... 

http://www.worldviewchurch.org/wvc-digest/featured-articles/21638-god-the-gospel-and-the-gay-challenge-a-response-to-matthew-vines?spMailingID=8435620&spUserID=OTQ0MjMwMjg4S0&spJobID=282265768&spReportId=MjgyMjY1NzY4S0

The article is by R. Albert Mohler Jr., President of the Southern Baptist Theological Seminary, who along with some colleagues has published a new e-book entitled, "God and the Gay Christian? A Response to Matthew Vines". The e-book can be accessed through a link at the bottom of the article.

I meant that I put my post in the wrong thread.

i ment that some posts here dont belong 

It is a biblical story which Christian fundamentalists and social conservatives like to invoke in order to create a sense of isolation and insularity among themselves that supports or creates a siege mentalty together with an attitude of solidarity toward political oponents and perceived social and cultural enemies or agents of change generally.

When you hear people invoking The Doctrine of Balaam in any serious discourse, you should immediately dismiss anything else they have to say as being worthless since they are seeking to prolong and profit from conflict, division, and exclusion. They suffer from poor judgement and irrationality and are obviously tryng to manipulate you.

I have looked at that book as well Dcn Jae ....

I would suggest that you read both.... and as chansen would say .... fact check.....

I would also suggest checking his credentials and see where he over reaches his areas of expertise....

Maybe even check some of the other positions he has taken such as childless marriages.

Rather than just comfortably assuming that he is the authority and then accepting his pronouncement and not looking further ... I would suggest doing the uncomfortable work of fairly looking.

I would be be very interested in your conclusions on the matter and the reasons for those conclusions.  I am sure we can get beyond the sunday school level and look at the aspects in a much deeper way.

Please remember ...... this issue personally affects the very people you are going to minister to.    There is a person and there are families dealing with this. 

Who is going to take the time to really investigate and take care of them?

Regards

Rita

"i ment that some posts here dont belong" 

Is that a' post hole ICK ... like some church polity (extremes of emotion) that the church denies exists in such a stoic-wizened environment?

Sort of reminds me of a stock aided design with much animation or bairn yard politics! No Muses or Musing allowed ... just blind sects ... as bull or what was once called molloch!

Is bullying a dilemma in our presence tense? All satyrs included as you're not supposed to even hint at cynicism of established authority ... no matter what fecundity they spread--- John Milton on AEropagite-ism! This is like OCCUM's Solution ... the cutting out of tongues and thus God (integral spirit) is stilled! Some don't believe the spirit of "emotion & intellect" as balanced ... can be eliminated.

This takes me back to Primal Leadership a consummation of emotional intelligence by Daniel Goleman. many economic powers ignore this as it could cost them ... and they don't know how it'll cost their underlying freedoms ... there's a subtle thought! Once a lack of thought is embedded it remains as a vaccuous mental state for some time in a slow flowing realm of Levite D ... that is Leviathan Word (LOGOS) that are another D or or dimension D'eire tomis ...

If you can't talk sensibly to the irrational population ... speak in terms they think irrational... they may discover the inversion layer ... right GEO?

Such is the outlying sense of the archtypical unknown ... often presented as "X" and sometime "khe" to cloes ET doors ... getting one beyond the present in myth ... prehaps presence myth?

Is there a sacred thing there? You betcha ... something you must work at ... until LOGOS becomes child plae ... as jesusaid ... and god the emotional hated the enlightened to what they don't know ...

Thankyou.

Deleted my comment.

Whatever way you look at it Balaam, Ba'aLam, or B a'aL eM this is about the symphony of the sphere's ... or balls (pede's) of bull, taurus, molloch and you can't isolate anything from such fecundity ... for we're (in) it due to our clear (shiyr) actions against our neighbours! But we often lie about what we do to our neighbours as part of worshipping innocence (not knowing or naivete) but you couldn't tell an authority that could you ... you would be censored to the point of losing your 'aD ... connection with the higher parts while following the heart in the dark (core values; core Balle in Hebrew that is allegory of phoqah)! This leads on to the screwed up portion of the brah-mah ... when it busted out ...

Authorities bawling like BS or toris in torid spin ... scare the still pool of humanity that is stunned by their own behaviour. We call these naive BS fixations ... and to leave eM could be fatal! On the outside of these systems the inner core recommends not supporting the fringe groups and thus the theology of the rye soul ... if you stand alone they'll pick on yah and not know why. And settles the enigma of WEBSTERS theology that intelligence is out-there, or beyond us and thus we believe wisdom to be myth ... or that is .. which isn't! Thus we aren't very sharp about this whetting with LOGOS or repetitive rhetoric ... pluralized iterations ... as we don't get simple things like G~D ... that's all there is folk ... everything and why people say god is all there is to them and they don't unstand a bit of it! regardless of the pile of misunderstood redundant words. Does serve as a coverup for a small fabrication that needs only spirit, soul and some medium to carry it or just be Karen ... this initiated anagrams ... or reflective Icons.

Should one care about such faroute philosophy? Well without care, or Karen ... would you  desire or have interest in everything and thus in the really, real world of the abstract of god(s) as integral ... it is all collected where you wouldn't gather ... centred on 'ole things as you like it ... as soul (and thus dispensed with as unknown and it become un-conscious, or that which isn't believable).

And the pious think this should be saved ... in their meanness it wizels ... or whistles through the trees as leaving them (as Eire) as hinted at in Springtime in Alaska! You wouldn't get this as an edifying harmonic! It is quite satisying as a kohl song that settles the soul while singing it a sad song about its carriers being stripped away constantly ... while a' sole like the bole weevil (note 1) is always looking for cottening, or trying to understand the idiom of man that would corrupt good sense ... just because they are afraid of a neighbour knowing more than them. The greatest episode of guilds in the world ... the guild of wisdom that leads to sacred wisdom in the church (hidden knowledge). The trouble is they lost it due to the overriding urge to not know by the pastoral field ... and the church says that thought is corrupting pure passion ...

1. Don't you love the scene in Master and Commander where the capt'n addresses the myth of the 2 weevils? This is deeply appreciated by the Bosun as he knows (subtlety) where they're going as cheif navigator while out on de wadi ... a' float (jet-sum)! Knowing where you're at in the story depends on getting right into the hidden talent to LOGOS ... that's the word ... but few know much about it and are thus stuck on this topic (that is neither subject or object from the isolated point as tropical as being in BS or Tory's if you wish it that way)!

Kind makes you wonder doesn't it?

Then there is this demiurge to be the top man ... standing all alone ... thus the fall of BS. There is actually a study done and wrote up as On Bullshit by Harry Frankfurt as he aired his thoughts. This was followed up by another etude on pathological types that is simply called Ass*oles (the flakey vacancy is to preserve taste) for those that would like to redact source on common crap like ... "business for the people". It raises the question if business is so good for all in a general corporeal sense why are the population so disloyal to the truth being fed them by "business as usual"? As a consequence we create confidence men that believe they can do anything without wisdom ... all you need is a powerful wile to screw up most anything of common sense ... why such things are difficult to find in the dimension of confidence men? Don't answer it was a rhetorical quest ION!

Could it be something in the context, or syntax is just corrupt and covered up content like "corporate welfare" that we don't hear much on these days as the realization of this sort of face of business is oppressed? Should oppressed things be raised before they explode --- Freud, or just a kohl path to frigid? This leads to cold stoic behaviour that we call pious ... not much warm heart to it other than sending people off to 'eL/'eLLe so's they can see ... for god is a blind passion!

With all the enlightened denial about what to shun ... we 're still in the dark because we cover up some of the most important treasures ... like the burying of the talent of knowledge and wisdom ... thus making philosophy a hard etude especially when studying foreign tongues ... if that what God speaks in her'/eMs thoughts ... if we don't understand that sector are we screwed or just emotionally cranked over something we don't know and thus are at dis ease about?

Thus we get the mother earth sysdrome that we're attached to by the dark mysterious gravid force of affinity ... and de numbinous father is out there like an EMV device that is yet in a state of cosmological chaos about what was extracted from brahma's fallout ... or fallacy if you wish? Like a skinned onion as you get into it (space-time in delight) you'll cry out at the insanity of it all ... and be glad that you're beyond it in an abstract place ... a dimension incompletely understood as wisdom always was ... especially in a dimension where it is turned out ... like fabric of dogma's breakfast ... and repeated as they heard it ... without adequately listening!

"The mythical elements in both testaments are closely related to mythical analogues all over the world."  out of Words with Power ... but some would consider LOGOS as so much BS and loco with lack or logic (rationale) go in another direction of chaos ... which we call a passionate rant! Further more as mentioned a' priori ... mortals allow no mediums as they have this polity about extremes ... a stand that must be occupied so it can be cut down --- myth of the LORAX!

Is this true, or just Brahman praying that you wouldn't know ... or you might change your system of molloch entire to differnt bull and that would be awkward for the Ba'aLem when he expected to do the wondering ... happy bull is hard to find in our present circumstance of bull consuming bull (one being inverted and being a consumptive Çow as an awkward overhead (aD; mu'n jumper?) thing as a Pi-egg! These are round and can be cut through to give a ratio or rationale about what's in it!

It is mortal foolishness that such isolationists get really upset of one part getting more than the other so the mental and emotional parts tend toward un-balance in a means, or medium that few grasp ... as silicious stele or pig-iron ...

We appear to live on a Ba'aL 've ite quickly moving through spartial attributes ... thiis too being chaotic unless well-dug into as Jaqob and his subtle ways ... thus the ways of the devil are well-laid out ... and we only see it faciously or as a Roman Janus ... as we generally don't wish to know much ... disinterest in God?

In the source functionsome of us were devoid on the curios function ... a disturbance all its own like Joey of knowing expecially about tiyres and connections that tend to go round ... as inde gorse of things that are bo-chi ... creates Shadow(s) character ... personality of curios ...