We can turn the question around and ask what this says about God.  The Bible tells us that we are created in God's image.  God must have a serious shadow side. 

I don't know how God speaks to others, but when I turn inward, and experience God, and my unity with God, and my unity with everyone and everything, then I feel overcome with unitive love, unitive awareness, unitive conscience and consciousness, and I feel an irresistible impulse to act on these feelings—and I do.

Words, doctrines and dogmas can be divisive. But the direct experience of God is powerfully unitive, uniting us not only with God but with everyone and everything.

God, as the cosmic synthesis, does not speak to us in words. Synthesis is an inseparable whole; whereas words are fragmentary, and destroy the whole. But we can experience the synthesis which is God, and then act directly from that experience. This is also known as intuition.

The ultimate Truth which is God is Synthesis; it can't be expressed in words. That's why sages like Socrates, Gautama the Buddha, John the Baptist, Jesus the Christ, and others are depicted with the imploring index finger pointed heavenward.

I would think that God and those representatives of God in this world take our warring nature very seriously. People have been suffering war, starvation and depravation for thousands, nay millions of years.

Is God showing us a way? Yes: feed the world and treat everyone, even the third world who don't seem to have much of a say these days, as you would treat your own family, because that is what they are.

"A new commandment I unto you. That you love one another as I have loved you"

- Jesus of Nazareth

But how do you get people to do that , Neo?

I suppose we should start with our own backyard. We need to let our local politicians know that it's not acceptable to let hungry people starve on our streets. How can we do this and call ourselves civilized?

Internationally, it's a different story, since so much aid ends up in corrupt hands. But again, through our international affairs, the UN, Doctors without Borders, UNICEF, the list goes on.

And Ataide actually does have a point. Not so much about the Christian thing per say, but rather as representatives of the human race we need show love and respect to everyone. I'm sure Christ wouldn't mind anyone showing love and respect without actually being a Christian!

I'm hoping for the day when the international community will actually start to compete on how much they can help the destitute. Every day we would read in the newspaper about the good news there has been on the front against poverty.

I can't image how Christ would mind if this was done in the name of Islam or Krishna, as longs as the job gets done. It's not about religion, it's about HUMANITY.

Peace,

- Neo

"It's not about religion, it's about HUMANITY." I agree Neo and  I would hope that the world sees this too.But at this point in time, it is very discouraging.

I agree to a point, ataide. For christians, maybe but for hindus, muslems, etc, etc. Jesus is known to some and just a name to others.

That's true but not necessary! He wants a relationship with everyone.

But how can this possibly happen?  Some of the other religions are older than Christianity and how do you propose to make them born again Christians. It aint going to happen, imho

Nobody can make a person a Born Again Christian. Plus God is older than all the religions.

When I talk about a "Born Again Christian" I am not talking religion. I am talking about a person who has had a transformation from God without any help from other people or scriptures.

You ask "How can this happen?". It can only happen when you call upon the Lord.

Have you done that?

"I can't image how Christ would mind if this was done in the name of Islam or Krishna, as longs as the job gets done. It's not about religion, it's about HUMANITY.". I still like Neo's quote

Man has no TIME for God in these countries that are constantly under war.  We get to take Sunday off to go to church but the people in these countries have no time to develop or meditate on their faith.

They can barely sleep without thinking about where the next bomb is going to drop or when the next troops are coming in and who's army they'll be working for this time.

And it's not even about anything that matters, these wars. They're economical bully wars created from debt and control to major companies and countries that hold all the chips.

You know what God thinks about this? Yeah. He's thinking they have all forgotten their souls. Because if any of the large corperations using slave labor, or the governments putting small countries into debt actually had God in their heart they'd stop turning man upon man.

You and I sit here with our minds, and we discuss. They scavenge for food and find body parts of dead relations. To them, what God? He left when the troops arrived.

All some people know is war. We have this Luxary of Church, books, websites and yes, God.

Perhaps. But should it be discouraging? Neo mentions reading in the newspaper about the progress in the fight on poverty as an example of what could happen if we lived the Greatest Commandment. But those things are happening now. They just don't make the headlines very often. In order to ''make ratings", newspapers and broadcast media replay the same shots of disasters over and over. I've seen the same bombed buildings in Israel and Gaza, for example, a bazillion times in the last week. For all I know, they've only ever lobbed one bomb each (I'm being facetious of course).

If our media ran good and bad news stories proportionally to what's actually happening in the world, war and disaster would be lucky to be on the back page.

Lets a brief, off the cuff, look at the last few decades -

• Women have gained greater equality than ever before, not only in the "west" but also in countries where they are often still considered property - including becoming heads of state
• Racial discrimination is no longer a state sanctioned attitude
• Sexual discrimination is on the decrease
• Extremists and zealots are increasingly marginalized
• Huge initiatives are underway by private groups (Bill Gates comes to mind) to address issues like AIDs in Africa
• Likewise, significant educational programs, liberal and unfettered by dogma, are being undertaken in impoverished countries
• "Green" projects are receiving support at hithero unheard of levels

Can you find instances where the above are not working? Absolutely. But more importantly, can you find instances where they are? Even more so. I'm sure that if we wanted to, we could make a "good news" thread that had more posts than any other in the cafe.

God, it turns out, seems to be quite alive and well in the world. God is not spending a lot of time debating theology with Leo, blackie, or for that matter, you or I .

Turns out, God is showing lots and lots of people "a way" as you asked in your opening note. And they're not spending a lot of time debating theology either. They're just sort of going on and doing God's work, being the Hands of God in Creation.

Gates once said that he saw nothing particularly wrong with religion. it just seemed to him to be a terrible waste of time (I'm paraphrasing) . I have a feeling that God pretty much agrees with him. Jesus, at least as written in the NT, certainly did.

So don't be discouraged friend CrazyH. God is getting the job done. As the writer of Desiderata put it -

Whether or not it is clear to you, no doubt the universe is unfolding as it should.

Be Well

David

So I guess I could say with sincerity - quit singing, quit the 20 minute sermons, quit the ritual  and shake the dust off our feet and go out into the streets and help whoever we meet -lift up the good things that happen to give others  hope; quit wasting our time on the things that help no one; love our neighbours here and around the world and the world will become the place that God made when God said "It is good" I don't think God gives up on us. I think  that s/he knows that we are just slow learners.

He many not have come to start a religion but he knew one would be started in his name. That's why he warned about the many coming in his name and deceiving many. And no, I'm not talking of the UCC or anyone in particular on this forum, but I don't have to look far (channel 28 where I live) to see people who do come into my own living room in the name of 'Jesus' trying to save my soul, for a nominal fee of course.

(oops, I forgot to include the quote above to which I was referencing below)

You're looking at it in the wrong way CrazyHeart. It's not a matter of conversion, it's a matter of recognition. Christ said that he had "other folds". Now it's been generally accepted that by these other folds it was meant the gentiles or the Jews (or someone will probably correct me on this), but what if He meant by these other folds the other peoples of the world? Christ could indeed be bigger than the Christian religion itself, i.e. a World Teacher Who has been with us for a very long time (lookup Metatron) and Who has either founded or has been involved in founding all of the great religions of the world. If there truly is a Hierarchy of Risen Masters then Christ would surely be the Master of Masters, He's encompassed and fulfilled all of the ancient myths and predictions.

Be of good heart crazy (?) and don't despair. I actually believe that the people are reacting but it's not going to change by itself at the government level (that's pretty obvious these days). It has to start at the grass roots level. The people of the world have to stand as one and demand change. There's no other way. As a group and thinking like a whole we will get our point across. Forums like this, for example, provide a landscape for us to interact and exchange ideas and concepts. The new age we are about to start promises that innovation and group thinking will be our best tools to take us forward.

Cheers.

Right on David. And you're absolutely right about the media. We see the same sensational stuff over and over again. There are good things happening all over the world.

Crazyheart, I've never actually heard you sing so I'm taking a chance that the ones that have do enjoy it, but don't quit singing or your sermons.

People still need both.

The instant that this -

.... prevents or lessens your ability to do this -

... it lenghtens the time it will take to bring about this -

Exactly

Neo notes that people "need both", and in one sense I agree with him. But look at the energy that is expended blathering on with the likes of Kyle and his sock puppets, or Leo, or in a worship committee debating whether communion should be by intinction or served, or whether children should be in the sanctuary or kept downstairs, or.......

More and more, people are getting their singing from Tim McGraw, or George Michaels (ever watch Eli Stone?); their sermons from politicians like Obama, or movies like Dark Knight; their ritual from time shared with sleeves rolled up side by side.

Worship at its best is the time we set aside to recharge ourselves to be God's Hands the rest of the time. At its worst, its a cultish place where we go to pat each other on the back and make believe we're better than anyone else. 

Hi Rogue, and welcome to the Cafe. I don't think a day goes by that I don't think about how good a life I have. You said "And it's not even about anything that matters, these wars. They're economical bully wars created from debt and control to major companies and countries that hold all the chips." And so it's been for a long time and so it's about to end. As my friend Bob says "The Times They Are A-Changin" and this economic crises we're is just the beginning of the change. People think I'm crazy when I say that in some ways I'm glad this economy has crashed. I'm not glad, of course, about the people losing their jobs or their homes. But I am hopeful that this will be the final nail that brings down this whole house of cards we call our economic structure. It's been working for a very small number of people while millions suffer. There has to be another way running a planet where there is no poverty or war.
 

I thought this sentence was worth repeating.

GR, I'm still picking myself up off the floor. For the very first time I agree with everything you said here! What a blessing!!

I would add one more thing to your list and that would be the Christian organizations who have been at work, in a big way, around the world since who knows when.

They never seem to get any credit in the daily news either. They have been big with disaster relief and have started hospitals and universities since the beginning of time.

May you be blessed even more in 2009,

Bjorne

Indeed. Religious organizations have been at the forefront of helping others since their beginning. Some are even learning how to do it without requiring "conversion" as a prerequisite for a bandage or a cup of rice. And that, to my mind, is a true good news story.

Do you feel that "most" of them were doing the good for ulterior motives or just wanted to share where their lovingkindness came from?

I feel that when you say "some" that you are a victim of the very biased newsmedia you exhorted above.

Plus, I didn't say religious organizations, I said Christian organizations.

If a group says "Here is aid for you, no strings attached." then I have no problem at all in their saying where their "lovingkindness" (nice Buddhist expression that) came from.

On the other hand if they say "If you agree to build a church" or "If you agree to hold a service in my faith" or even "Y'know, if you converted to my religion, you could feel this way too", then there is nothing of "lovingkindness" or faith in any of what they've done. They are Paul's clanging cymbal.

to say "all" would be incorrect as even as recently as the 2004 tsunami, church groups were refusing to aid stricken villages that did not agree to convert to Chrisitianity. Shame on that biased media for reporting on that I guess.

Indeed you did. I guess other faiths don't help people in your world?

Now don't be upset. We both knew that this discussion would arrive at this point, didn't we? To be honest, I was surprised that you said you agreed with me, since one of the points I made was that people are falling away from the kind of holier-than-thou belief that you have espoused her on numerous occasions. I think you must have skimmed my comments too quickly.

I guess !!! 

lol - you had to quote the whole thing so you make a comment as silly as that??!!  

bah, duplicate

Hi crazyheart,

Operating under the belief that Jesus is God in human flesh and the gospel narratives are faithful accounts, God has this to say,

Cheerful isn't it?

Not really.  Still, these things are going to happen.  We are always going to hear stories of death, destruction and violence.  So what?  Do we give up or do we set our faces like flint and purpose to be just as stubborn as war but for a better purpose?

Yearning is the easy part.  Accomplishing peace, that is the rub.

As others point out the alternative to war is grace, peace, love, trust and gentleness.  That will not eliminate war because all you really need is one guy with an army and a hate on for someone else to start a war.  And yet, if love, grace, peace, trust and gentleness have their way it will be harder for that one guy to find enough people to form and army.

Watch the news.  God may not be seen showing us a new way.  The evidence of how well the old way is working is dumfounding.  Waving flags and coffins day after day after day can nobody see an alternative just by staring at that?

Sure they can see an alternative.  Unfortunately the most popular alternative involves wiping out everyone responsible for your flag being draped over coffins.

There are other alternatives.  Oneida United Church contributes close to $1000 dollars annually to an orphanage in Angola.  This year, thanks to some timely crop prices we contributed in excess of $24, 000 to the Canada Foodgrains projet (CIDA matches that at a ratio of 4 to 1 so the grand total to Canada Foodgrains Project that Oneida and her partners raised was over $100, 000.  That goes a very, very long way.

It will not end war or anything so grandiose.  It gives people something to do other than try to kill others though.

Grace and peace to you.

John