Sorry--I have not figured out how to edit the wording of a topic.

I take a

broad definition

of 'religion' to include anything that occupies the centre of your attention and values in life.  That being said, 'religion', to me, includes 'secular religions' with organized, professional sports as a 'religious' movement or experience.  Anything that leads to 'fanaticism' (also the root of the word, fan, as applied to sports teams) can affect a person's mental state.  Look at what happens, for example, when a major sports team wins a championship.  A 'religious fervour' takes over the 'fans' and the crowd can become unruly and behave in socially unacceptable ways.  Fanaticism becomes the excuse for violence, drunkeness, assault, etc.  Pizza and beer become the new 'communion' on the altar of sports fanaticism.  The link between 'fanaticism' whether applied to organized religious movements or sporting or nationalistic events, and insanity is more evident than among those of us who don't make it our whole 'raison d'etre', or our 'ultimate concern'.  The line between 'sports fanaticism' and 'radical religious fundamentalism' is very thin and, in some cases, non-existing.  If you disagree, try banning the rest of the Stanley Cup playoffs.  Years ago, when Rocket Richard was suspended, they rioted in Montreal.  Any form of 'fanaticism' can drive people to 'insanity', at least temporarily.  There's even Wondercafe Fanaticism, but I've said enough already.  The red light on my computer suggest I'm being monitored (JUST KIDDING.)

Hi snaps:

Our nearby town, the city of Vernon, B.C., has the highest number of churches per capita in Canada. It also has the highest number of mentally challenged people per capita.

I always wondered whether one was related to the other. And if so, how.

One possible explanation is that churchy people are known to take care of people in need, and that's why people in need tend to move to churchy towns.

In Soviet Russia, "spiritual intoxication" was a certifiable mental illness. Ecstatic people appear to be mad, and spiritual ecstasy or rapture is seen as a sign of madness by some people even in the Western world.

I ought to know; I'm one of these "mad mystics."

 FROM WIKI:

In 2008, intelligence researcher Helmuth Nyborg examined whether IQ relates to denomination and income, using representative data from the National Longitudinal Study of Youth, which includes intelligence tests on a representative selection of American youth, where they have also replied to questions about religious belief. His results, published in the scientific journal Intelligence demonstrated that on average, Atheists scored 1.95 IQ points higher than Agnostics, 3.82 points higher than Liberal persuasions, and 5.89 IQ points higher than Dogmatic persuasions.  "I'm not saying that believing in God makes you dumber. My hypothesis is that people with a low intelligence are more easily drawn toward religions, which give answers that are certain, while people with a high intelligence are more skeptical," says the professor.

(SO: American religion is for dummies)UNLESS you're Mormon:

Studies of Mormons in the US show that Mormons with higher education attend church more regularly than uneducated Mormons. Survey research indicated that 41 per cent of Mormons with only elementary school education attend church regularly. By contrast, 76% of Mormon college graduates attend church regularly and 78% of Mormons who went beyond their college degrees to do graduate study attend church regularly.

In Australia, 23% of Christian church attenders have earned a university or postgraduate degree, whereas the figure for the general population is 13%. 

(AUSTRALIAN religion is for clever people... Pilgrim's progress take not!)

Is that genetic (from inbreeding, etc.) or environmental (pollution, etc)?  Seriously, there must be a cause or reason for this fact.  The churches were, no doubt, there before the mentally challenged people existed.  Have studies been done to identify any causes?

Hi joejack:

As I said, I think it is due to the fact that churchy people are known to help those in need. That's why those in need move to churchy towns. Vernon is known as a good town to be "down and out" in. That's why "down and outers"—many of whom with mental issues— tend to flock to Vernon.

southpaw, I like your analogy of sports fanaticism to religion. It works well, which makes me wonder why atheists who dismiss God because of the terrible things religion can make people do don't also argue for a banning of all organized sport - never mind professional sports; just consider the behaviour of hockey moms and dads! I'm going to Chicago in a couple of weeks. Regardless of what happens in the Stanley Cup finals, I may encounter a burned out hulk of a city - the result of either fans celebrating a win or mourning a loss. You're right, fanaticism of any kind can easily bring out the worst in us - although it must be acknowledged that the vast majority of both sports fans and "religionists" do not engage in such ridiculous behaviour.

Blessings, Steven

Could the question also read:  "What's in religion that attracts 'crazy' people?"  "Religion" can be a mask of respectability to hide behind to make one appear credible in the eyes of the public.  I've seen people who say and do the right things on Sunday but from Monday to Saturday it's every one for himself.  I know an elder of a particular church (not UCC) who had killed his infant brother years ago and got off with it, has badmouthed other business people in his area, cheated his staff, defamed people's characters, etc.  But, come Sunday morning, he's Mr. Smiles and Chuckles, Bible in hand, phony handshake, etc.  "Religion" becomes a place for 'crazy' people to make their own agenda(e) respectable.

snaps, just so you don't drive yourself crazy. You can't edit opening post.

Oh oh...he's making good sense again...

I am not a hockey fan. I am not in th least interested in hockey. I was at Nathen Phillip Square (Toronto) When after beating Russia (In the 70's ...I don't rmember)

The Team got off their bus...and the crowd went in a way I have never before or since experienced. A communicatable ferver...I felt WONDERFUL...Not from clapping waving or spplauding the team...It was love/joy/ferver/entheusiasm.

The crowd on that occasion was ruly. Probably the ruliest crowd on the planet. Just a thck  cloud of joy.

Possibly what those stompin' tellin' churches excperience...

Thanks for reminded me of that day.

Ve ar taking zee notes...

Sports are but non-murfderous aggression. A hobby that involves beer can't be all wrong.

[/quote]

And sometime uncritical zeal is significently good. (A requirement in fine art.)

Now that I've completerly changed your mind -----

(Or don't you give a dang?)

What could be crazier that learning to experience transcendance --from a Hockey team?

(Re: mine to Southpaw) 

Now who was that who 'moves in mysterious ways'?....

(It's easier, once you know it's there)

You seem to think it should be universal: I think it more like art and music; no matter how important, its not for everybody.

...uh...many are called, few are chasen

You mean chastened?

"Whom the LORD loveth He chasteneth."

-The Holy Bible

Yes, Happy Genius,  I realize, alas, that mysticism is not for everyone. But it has done so much for me that I, like an evangelist, want to share it and convert everyone.

Unlike most evangelists, however, I have no B.S. (Belief System) that must be believed in. In my brand of mysticism, the experience speaks for itself. That makes it both easier and harder.

I thought it was a misprint.  I thought you meant 'many are called, few are 'Chansen'.'  Sorry.

That IS what I meant

You got it. Arnminus was transcendentalizing....

My brother, a neuroscientist, claims that everyone who has religious faith of any kind at all is at least a little crazy. Then again, he's agnostic, which makes me think...

I don't know about a link between religion and insanity....

But a good case could be made for a link between religion and hipocrasy....

And another for religion and hubris.....

And definately one between religion and corruption.....

Sounds depressing doesn't it?      Perhaps it is time we more carefully took our responsibilities as citizens of our various denominations a bit more to heart and stood up a bit more.    (just gave myself a tune up there .... that was not necessarily for you)

Hugs

Rita

Good post Rita - I think I'm off to start a new thread around this sort of thought in Church Life.

 As my pastor says, "True Christianity is not about Religion (AKA RULES).  It is about RELATIONSHIP.

MAYBE I POSTED MY QUESTION BECAUSE THE MORE  I THINK ABOUT RELIGION THE CRAZIER I GET.  

So, shifting my focus to sports won't help.  Ah well.

Well, jae, your brother sounds like my brother. He too thinks that people who believe in any kind of spiritual dimension are somwhat crazy.

But he is chronically depressed while I am chronically joyful. Must be that "opium for the people" which keeps me happy, eh?

Sheesh, maybe instead of just visiting Canada, I'll have to emigrate, eh???  

Hi Trish:

Maybe the churches of Vernon know this better than the churches elsewhere in the country.

"The churches of Vernon welcome you" says the sign when you enter Vernon from the east. 

In all fairness, we might ask, "What is religion drives people SANE?"

Or how about this question, "Who in religion drives people?" At my church it's usually the Pastor, who chauffers people to and fro in his minivan.

Hi Snaps....I think fear in prolonged doses can drive anyone bonkers.  If the religion practiced is fear based, run away!

My ex-wife used her 'religious leanings' as a smokescreen for violent and abusive behaviour.  After she punched out a tooth, tried to push me down the stairs, then denied it, I took off.  Spirituality, like anything else, can be used properly to enrich your life, or it can be abused and an excuse for violent, abusive and destructive behaviours.  The trick lies in the discernment process.

The central tenet of religion is belief in magic. I'm sorry if that seems harsh to the religious, but there it is.

Once you have turned belief in magic into a virtue (rather than an alarming abondonment of rationality), you are unleashing a beast that you may not be able to control. Most people can compartmentalise, and just limit their religion/magic beliefs. But some cannot. And when religion/magic belief cannot be controlled, it can be either the symptom of insanity, or a contributing factor to insanity.

The difference between a tool and a weapon is often only how it is used.

The difference between religion and spirituality I feel is much the same.

Religion = magic ...... hmmmm ...interesting viewpoint I shall consider....

Spirituality = magic ...... no .... from my experience not quite so...

"Unleashing a beast" .... LOL .... sounds like arguments that I have heard from very politicized christians ..... that good old "slippery slope" stuff..... "it will be abused".....

In my situation ..... sort of like the "bathroom bill" debate that is occurring with our neighbours to the south.

Well ...if we are going to take away things that may get out of control and be abused then where to I turn in my kitchen knives?

Hijacking of beliefs, abuse, insanity knows no boundaries and respects neither thiests or athiests...

My thoughts....

Hugs

Rita

"The difference between a tool and a weapon is often only how it is used."

Well said , Rita.

I remember one of the former Moderator, I believe it might have been Peter Short, saying something like this in a sermon: (this is not a quote):

"What is smarter- using a crutch going through life or keep on pretending that you don't have a limp."

Mike,

I have been to Utah, (long time ago)- there seems to be everybody -especially the big businesses, Mormon- so I would account peer pressure for the high attendance in church- it would not be good for the business, if you don't show up in church.

That might apply to Italiens in Rome, too.

Is the God Game a business like adventure where you pull a haze of words over the uneducated eye? That's fuzzy logic eh ... the urge to beat and destroy although the book says we were sent here to teach. Whats the problem ... too many words to discern for a mortal?

One should enrole the services of an expanded mined ... oops a miss'd Eire'ns 'pell'n again ... magic in creation of altered words ... food for the mind to evaluate a changing God? It is said that the word is God and quite extensive if you look at all languages and dialectsis even in the dialectic case ... reciprocal or backwards  order ... like the content of a mind predisposed to lovein ET. You can get drunk on the variety and they say change is as good as a rest so maybe God is away in some dark space ... stuck in a book?

Is that Love, or a split between love and intellect being borne? Some neuroscientists say that love is crazy and so are the pathè logical that think without caring! Borderline personality order? Sometimes it is just an allusion to intellect that a competitive man hates in the other ... an immortal split in afar space of the imaginary realm ... since many people do not believe in either soul or God ... thus a population of loveless, mindless people as fallout of heaven ... Milton, or was that Dan tae (devilish words) in satire they are dark on the page ... bred for the mind as people you carry a name sacred in ... in ancient belief systems that had great faith in communication.

Our anti-socialist order hates communication and repeats the old adagio ... silence is golden ... so you can sneak up on the other's ide. But you don't have to for if you linger in the dark and encounter of mindlessness will occur ... some think mindlessness is bad thus giving pure love a bad name in roaming centres ... tran scient natures of the soul in out of bodean escape ... day dreaming? Sign of a crazy man chased into a saline pool for the pickling ... or just floating the Eggos of thought ... or a Ham ... fallen henna ... a chick discovering the lie about a gentile passion ... Plateaux Nicks ... two chips of bill ... willie eM (whereas eM is the whole population of thought, demologic to the authority that keeps the population silent with fear ... terrorism ...

Phtha Licked symbol is a defeated language, dae'd but not gone, look at all the remnents hidden in the English mongrel ... and the European says this is a pure bloodline of Light ... Christ it wobbles too! On the page boy, on the page ... yah have to open the book read all the history and the stories too ... somewhere between the lines a Mere semblance of truth ... and the nubians giggle ... squirming on the page as the eye passes over eM ... pure satire in bet' Noire ... yah gotta love it if yah read much ... an attic shun'd by many ... heir space?

Is that a religious focuss too? Some say a pure love is all you need; what, to get to the other's ID?