I use the NIV a lot ... because it is not as confusing as Shakespearean English is to a modern man that doesn't have time to consider the depth of such p'rose ... a flowering dark thing (Lileth) containing in its depth considerable bucolic satyr from the loch' district of the UK ... many have trouble unravelling the stuff for children there as defined in Matthew 19:14 ...

But the delight is obscured by authorities that didn't wish the wee people to know anyhow or anyway at all that they could pull the pall over their eyes ... is this obtuse, ob-scene, OBI or just something not looked into by the absolute and hard-headed?

Now tell me about that thin red line that separates ij-nus from in-san-ETei and those that don't know the difference? Something that should be walked with some Sophei ... that' ID dampen the balance ... and such is whetted to a fin' edge ... for nothing will cut through a tough spot like/as myth ...

Do you know what asmyth is used for? There's a complex issue that to understand even the NIV one must get some sense of the Latin it came from, and the Greek from which the Latin derived and the Hebrew which that came from and so on and so on in forgotten past things ... the-aughts? They go as unseens ... generally unconscionable to authority ... they don't wish you to know their errors ...th'ireroars?

Thus they are institutionalized and negatively unfixed ... the errors go on ... answering many questions about recycling and resurrection of old Urs ... that were hidden as errors ... tucked away out there in Eire auras ... leading a curio's man to a large stretch ... some call this abstract imagination ... and many don't believe the basis for this as soul ... Don KISS numb theory?

Where can you drive a donkey without ethics? Ask Ba'aL'm ... did you know wolves were really cautious around donkies ... you could get och'd or struck by uncleved foot ... leading to the envioning of stars ...

Why donkies are often set out with a herd of sheep ... there are storied implications if you know the abstract side ...

Then could this all be connected to the biblical hint to know the tongues of all men (people)?

Appears to be an impossible feat (fete, fait du t'rois, t'roué-aL bummer) at least until one gets beyond themselves ... Heinseinberg-Pauling Conflict ... the disturbance or dissonance between power (energy) and position ... ergo nomix! Lack of intellectual chit?

What's an ergot ... what primal fixations told de light: "go cross"! And thus this is how it went ... and man didn't like it because of innate possessiveness due to the gravid situation ... the lost ability to take flight? Cross the rube con ...

Many do not get a grip of this fecund state of the chit we're in because of the propensity to go against wisdom as a god ... thus Urg*oed ... as scape goad chi bugs us internally ... allowing for hyperbolic dimensions that are the devil to get your head about ... at least from inside perspective ... one should get beyond the private self once in a while ... relieves constitutional plug ups ... when you run into tight asses that suffer set ups without thinking of consuming proper seeds of variety ... NOS hyte ...

The New Revised Standard Version (NRSV) comes highly recommended in my experience and there are some good study bibles based on it, too. Apparently the scholarship behind it is qutie good in terms of being a contemporary translation that incorporates contemporary Bible scholarship. I don't have it myself but I have read portions.

Also, if you search the board, there have been a couple threads on recommending Bible versions while you were off.

EDIT: Here is one of them, from 2011: http://www.wondercafe.ca/discussion/religion-and-faith/favorite-bible-version

Mendalla

Does derivation ... going  back even to Indu-European roots give a dark depth to what appears as a superficial myth?

Could rattles somebody's bones as much as an earthquake'n event ...

I use mostly the NRSV, but I also have a King James Version and a Martin Luther Version, in German. I often am suprised by the differences between Martin Luther's translation and the various English translations.

Hi Wolfie -- My advise to you, would be tell you friend to seek first the Holy Spirit. The Bible is the methed of teaching. The Spirit is the Teacher. airclean33

I'm pretty old fashioned and love the flow of the language of the King James.  It is what I heard and read as a child!

Once I asked this question of a minister and he advised the NRSV. 

@Airclean

Actually if I were to do anything like that, I would have told them to accept Jesus into their hearts asking for forgiveness for sin. First and foremost. You know full well that there must first be repentance and acceptance before the indwelling of the Holy Spirit.

But tell me, what version/translation of the bible you use? Why do you prefer that over other translations/versions.

(>-.-)> *Peace* ~ Beyond ~ *Peace* <(-.-<)

Steven A. Breeze

As someone who very much enjoys the writings of Shakespeare I can see why people would be partial to the King James Version.

I think, though I may be wrong, that UCC ministers mainly tote the NRSV as being the bible to use. I have seen people here on Wonder Cafe quote from the Amplified Bible. I have often wondered about bibles like the parallel or the living or New International Version.  So many options and if they wish to study the bible, should they not have one that is a study version as opposed to just the normal bibles?

(>-.-)> *Peace* ~ Beyond ~ *Peace* <(-.-<)

Steven A. Breeze

Hi Wolfie-- The Books of Acts--10:44-47 . I believe it realy is not the version of GODS word your reading. It is GODS spirit that lets you understand. Other wise chose any. May your day go well.--airclean33

AirClean,

How many sides does god's spirit have ... it being sort of ... a' moor fuss --- dark formless void?

What a place to dispose of thoughts for those religious sorts that demand no thoughts at all from their followers.

Then if one would get into the pits of that garbage dump (gehenna?) imagine what you'd learn about the flighty sorts? Are there unwater flyers* as well? How does one flush out the sower of evil thoughts ... bull chit?

Creation gave us a piece a' mind and demanded that we teach gods children, and what does the church do ... form the largest guild in the world. Guild ... a place of professional secrets; sacred to some in such a degree that even they don't know what its about ... as the spirit baffles them. They didn't wish to know so it went underground ... sort of subtle-like ... really scews up their directives tho' ...

*Octopii ...

*Octo puss ... catphi'sh? Some fly within the pages of closed tomes ... shadows unseen of great wisdom lost as laid out there in the book of the dead ... and authorities really don't wish us to know what it really means after they rewrote history to suit themselves as rye princes ... eM in the dark as enigmas of:

----Why did those people do that to the wee and weaker folk?

Mais-on, some have to succeed by what ever brutal means possible ... sort of answers why so much sexual miss happenings in the temple ... the drive to mess up difficult descending seeds! ITs a long myth ... with entanglements with the mental gonad ... close to an ass if not cultivated in the expressions of all people ... including minorities and W'ominous type ... phi-mael genres?

Sort of like a Black Ghost; that which hovers about ergo or near a Black Whole ... the unknown overwhelming one ... like a mine pit ID'll get you in the end ... pudenda?

Don't you love fractal thoughts? If you don't wish to ... you need not ecclesia ... they are supposed to assist a person gather them ... but they don't ... a lost talent is my guess!

This comes from at least 2 millenia of denial of wisdom, knowledge and thought ... a romantic thing? Perhaps in the Dan's we could take a turn about ... evolve like John?

Would that not be apocalyptic? So the ancient story goes but some try and nail it down to their perspective ... a very limited thing in the mortal sense ...

Is the infinite another side ... to a way of processing stray thingies, rye things on the strand? Cautious of the grit, rolling in wet clay is easier on the parts and this the mudder of love ... MIR Baths? It is a cosmological process ... just for spatial types ... who are intereted in the ground of spirit ... different that Eire spirit ... that involves wisdom! Ask any lass from Eire ... chi knows what nothings for ... but chi might have particular intelligence that she would like to process there ... you require mire reservation ... no po'no graphics ... just suite words out of the sycamore ... isn't that the devil or just Zaachious?

Read Ma plè ... word play ... mental activity? Spooky for those gonads that are near dead ... can't think of communion with the other half due to some strange bull ... from a pure guild? Like Shakers they fade away ...

http://www.biblegateway.com/ has a very good collection of English translations of the bible online (and many in other languages too).

One useful feature is to show different translations of the same passage side-by-side, so people can get a sense of the different approaches to translation.

For most purposes I use the NRSV, because I have been told it is generally a very good and accurate translation. The NIV has similarly good recommendations, but I never really tried it. (Probably because my congregation uses NRSV.)

For more contemporary language, I used to use the NLT, but more recently I use The Message. These are good for reading, but not so good if accuracy is needed.

@Airclean

I say again, unless there is first repentance and acceptance, there is no place for the indwelling of the Holy Spirit.

@Waterbuoy

Well spoken, thank you for sharing that.

(>-.-)> *Peace* ~ Beyond ~ *Peace* <(-.-<)

Steven A. Breeze

As a United Church minister, I choose to buck the NRSV trend, and I generally use the NIV. I find it to be the best and most faithful rendering of the original languages into understandable English. I sometimes use the NRSV, and sometimes a translation called simply "God's Word." Both are quite good. And from time to time, when I want something to have a fresh sound, I use The Message.

Hi WaterBuoy-- you posted--

AirClean,

How many sides does god's spirit have ... it being sort of ... a' moor fuss --- dark formless void?

________________________________

Airclean--I believe you will find 7 it was 8. As all parts The Holy Spirit is all incompassing. I have found it were ever I have gone . Ten thousand feet in the air or 100 feet under the ocean. It was there with me.No matter which country I was in or ocean I was on it was there. It like the others is light . There is no dark in it or around it.--airclean33

Hi Wolfie,

NRSV, NIV, NLT, KJV are the dominant versions I use while studying.  I try to keep my Greek skills sharp by using GNT (Greek New Testament) when I notice differences in translations.

Because sometimes things get lost in translation.  Translators often have several different words they can use to make a translation that is technically correct.  However, technically correct translations can miss nuance.

My favourite example of this is John 21:  15-17.  The English translation found in most Bibles is technically correct.  It misses nuance and I personally believe that what is missed leads to a better understanding of how Chirst operates than the tradtional thought which comes from the technically correct typical tradition.

In my personal devotions I use my newest translation which is NLT.  I don't use it because I believe newer automatically equals better.  I use it because the translational options will likely be different from what I am used to.  This forces me to slow down and read what is actually in the text rather than coasting ahead on memory.

I think the NLT has several glaring moments of Translator bias.  To be honest I think the same can be said of most translations.

Grace and peace to you.

John

I've started using The Voice, mostly because it is such an enjoyable read. In seminary my Old Testament prof started calling me "The Voice" because I was reading it so often and so well.

My friend was over whelmed yesterday. They went to a bible bookstore thinking to just walk in pick up a bible and walk out.  There were so many different bibles and translations that they rushed back out because the clerk was asking which one they wanted and they couldn't tell them because they didn't know.

I told them I would ask the good people on Wonder Cafe, since many here use and quote from them that I would be able to find one that would best suit their needs. They want a bible to use for simple daily devotion, yet, also one that would allow for deeper study of the scriptures and what the verses mean. One that would help with understanding what it is they have read.

Someone suggested to them I think it is called, Life Application Bible New Living Translation? Does anyone know anything about it? Would it meet their needs? or perhaps there are other such study bibles?

(>-.-)> *Peace* ~ Beyond ~ *Peace* <(-.-<)

Steven A. Breeze

You can try this sight ----  

Choosing a Bible:
 

A Guide to Translations
and Study Bibles

http://www.cts.edu/library/documents/ChoosingABible-Vertical.pdf

The New Oxford Annotated Bible with Apocrypha ( Unitl last year, I used the third edition, now I have the fourth as well).  Really good footnotes that explain translations issues, etc., and solid  historical and text introductions to each book.  And maps.  Helps to put writings into a historical context, and then you can proceed to read for insight, meaning, guidance etc. -  however you want to approach the writings.

It is what I used for classes in University, so really like it - but it may not be everyone's cup of tea.  I really do appreaciate framing writings in their time and place before applying meanings and guidance that are still imoprtant  today. 

Hi "Wolfie"...

Perhaps you and friend could go to local thrift store. Most have a book selection, including various bibles. You look for a cool hat or bright scarf while friend thumbs through some bible pages. For fifty cents to a dollar, friend can take home the one with a good first impression, a "good feeling".

Stop for a coffee on way home. Share insights about selected bible with friend. Offer indications of strengths and/or weakness in the translation. Encourage friend to "tussle" with the text a bit. See what comes of it. Suggest coffee in a few days to converse about insights and challenges.

Repeat cycle as often as required.

George

@ Geo

That is a great idea, never thought of that, I'll have to check ahead of time to see if the thrift store near me has any, Having Tea or Coffee with them would give them a chance to open up and perhaps give me a fuller understanding in which Bible and translation would be right for them.

I was thinking perhaps an Amplified Bible because it gives extra meanings to scripture to help give a perspective on the passage they are reading. I do not however know if that comes in a study format. Which is why I asked if anyone has used the Life application Bible New Living Translation.

I gave them a King James Version to check out, but they are not big on Thee and Thou and such, They said that is one for me because of my Shakespearean background. I really want to help them along their journey where ever that journey leads them.

(>-.-)> *Peace* ~ Beyond ~ *Peace* <(-.-<)

Steven A. Breeze

As part of my current seminary course, in Biblical Greek, we all got Koine Greek New Testaments courtesy of the Canadian Bible Society. I can't really read it yet, but maybe some day.

I don't know how this version comes out now but at one time I used Quickverse an electronic bible that had 10 tranlations (now even more) that you could view in parallel (side by side). Some well grounded spirits don't like this comparason thing ... prhaps makes them look a bit off ...

In addition the KJ's Translation was linked to the Hebrew and Greek dictionaries (koine, or common, classic language). I warn you this is a chore to get into the convoluted and missed things in translation. The differences will get one to pondering if mistranlation of Classic Wisdom was an error ... or intentianal redaction.

I studies Isaiah in this form and it took a long while to digest what is hidden there in the Classic Forms so hated by those attached to the present. It is there the connection was made between Isaiah<-> Light<-> Lam<-> Kris'ð ... but who in present state of mind would look there? Live for the dais ... as if the past errors never taught anybody anything? God is sometimes difficult to move until cataclsym ensues ... the abyss? That's dark ...

Recall if you wish people to follow; tell them a story ... they'll believe of a hero in Legend ... even if it is a dark myth ... making it worthwhile to seach out the dark volumes ... occipital or just occult? How authorities hate to be tripped up ... they hate humiliation in their self! I say ITs good for the Ego and all about it ... allows cognizance of the entire wheel (Pi) not just elect sectors ... piece brother ... see if they can put this together or ecclesia -8! That could be H-8 or something like a holy come about ... report with the wee people? LOL!

High and Hot-ei people wouldn't do that would they ... they don't like Kohl espesially if it is a quenching thought ... showers of blessings?

What is that saying about a cool drink? A whetted position of rhetoric ... in which the Razor's Edge pares everything of the complexity down to simple ... something they can't get beyond ... like the spot we find ourselves in due to avarice ... the prime driving factor?

Does that make a'Donis a bit ill, as he sits there on that stone ... in a black mode none-the-less ... Ba Salt! Mais on that was found under the sun ... just had to be cut out for a scion of thought; god said there'd be a scion ... and it would indeed be taken many ways so it could be tossed about to see what works best. Consider it a test to see if the product is reasonable! I Thessaloneans 5:21?

Can you imagine someone saying don't test anything or nothing when it is indeed in the book they say is absolute ...

Perhaps there is something absract (incomplete) to it? That would account for the truth according to John ... no!

The which is used by Hans Kung in 

"On being a Christian"

The very best book in 87,500 years!

====

As to Bibles, I was raised with and still use an old one: A New Scofied Reference Edition.

Then it's off to the Jerome Biblical Commentary

and to The New Testament in Color: Good News For Modern Man

The James Moffit Bible is an interesting translation; came out in the 

40's, I think.

Hey Arm!

We're all courious...just give us one of 'the differences' will ya?

Ach da lieber! (Or something like that  )(Das vas nict goot, nic var?

:;;;

don't you dare reply in German, I don't even know anybody who know's German : -)

'Sept you, he types enviously...)

Hi John:

Here is a poignant example:

1Cor13:9,10, King James Version:

For we know only in part, and we prophesy in part.

But when that which is perfect is come, then that which is in part shall be done away.

1Cor13:9,10, Martin Luther Version:

Denn unser Wissen ist Stückwerk, und unser Weissagen ist Stückwerk.

Wenn aber kommen wird das Vollkommene, so wird das Stückwerk aufhören.

(For our knowledge is fragmentation, and our prophesies are fragmentations.)

(But when that which is perfect has come, then the fragmentation will end.)

I think the Martin Luther Version is far more lucid than the King James Version. I discern it as follows:

Knowledge is analytical and dualistic, and so are prophesies. Analytical knowledge is necessarily dualistic and fragmentary because it necessarily fragments phenomena into object and subject, observer and observed, experiencer and experienced, creator and created, etc. This differentiating knowledge is also known as "maya" or "illusion" in the Far East.

"That which is perfect," on the other hand, is the ultimate state of reality. IT is a state of non-duality or synthesis. And, because IT is non-dualistic, IT can only be experienced in the pure, undifferentiated experience of reality. Then we experience the Truth which is God—and the fragmentation will end!

Any analysis of reality constitutes a fragmentation of what actually is an non-fragmented, inseparable whole. The analysis of reality is only its analysis! It does not reflect its actual or ultimate state, which is inseparableness or synthesis!

I never read Hans Kung, but I think he would discern 1Cor13:9,10 similarly.

Way Tae go Arm ...

If that isn't ecclesia; who would not know what getting it all together is, or isn't? As a state of singular mind you could say people arn't yet? This might be the perfect metaphysical state for poking at parts of yourself ... if you believe in ecclesia having the wrong track, in which case the Gnostics were right and something went wrong in god some time ago ... there was fallout ...

And chi giggled ... chi being "X" the grand and expostulated unknown archetype ... a MIR beginning ... that appears to be how it was. We can never be sure for all the lies told in Rome as the common folk (pagans) were not allowed to know ... and knowledge went out the window ... leaving anyone to think about it incomplete on that matter (abstract). Yet still there are those that think they know what isn't with them ... a simple awgred, or ogred 'ole ... what you were severed with when born to put lost knowledge into ... it is a metaphysical depression!

With some that 'ole thing is sealed with dural (tought; ruagh to get through, takes a special wind like pede-antics) matter ... they simply won't listen to scattered thoughts, once called fractal light ... old broken down Levantine? If nothing else such an idealism of thought (word) is a gross abstract to play with. Some would say playing with the devil as they don't inderstand a lot of stray words ... it could how ever strike light in a previous dark spot ... where the two lines cross? This connects fear and anger in the Myers-Briggs Personality Construct and moderates them with curiosity and great Joey at the top. Some hard heads don't believe in such constructs and thus remain on the flat out portions ...

You couldn't get a giggle out of eM no matter how many myths you told to counter the Romantic Lyons ... these may have later become UK Gryffons. It is just the way things move about to avoid being known ... words too are just like thoughts I discovered when you dig into liguistic hysterics ... a devil to unravel over time when you're stuck in a particular time ... sometimes makes people wish to get out ... martydom ... greater love and all that, which a mortal couldn't understand, he must be stretched abit ... an thus the ankh-st ... the Saint of Little worry that he didn't get none! A'ole that is and the bag thus exteneded till it bust ... thus the term NOS Hyte be came negative and the boule was ... some Europeans plae it constantly as old phi-art ...

I started seminary with a copy of the NIV; acquired a copy of the Oxford Annotated RSV and the New Jerusalem Bible; acquired a NRSV on onion skin paper which was handy for funerals because of its compactness; enjoyed the CEV for its readability while being aware it was not very accurate; came to use the Message Bible a great deal for its edginess;  occasionally go to several translations when something seems to be missng from a reading.  Occasionally drag out my BDB when a Hebrew passage seems to be poorly translated.

Arminius -- really appreciated your example.  Thank you.

Mostly use the New King James.  I like the way it retains the poetry of the KJV & (a silly reason) I like the binding on my copy of it. 

Also like NRSV, NIV, and the Message. 

Sorry I haven't responded here sooner have been dealing with RL stuff.

I find it very interesting that so many people use the same versions. Would people say it is because they are UCC, or have been raised using bibles most common to UCC people?

I don't know if I should be recommending my friend use a modern translation or stick with King James versions. So far they like The Amplified, but still haven't settled down and still wants me to help them check out other translations. I don't mind helping them if I am able to help them find what best meets their needs and speaks to them where they are.

I really appreciate everyone sharing their choices and why. It has helped my friend alot.

(>-.-)> *Peace* ~ Beyond ~ *Peace* <(-.-<)

Steven A. Breeze