Are you sure Merton doesn't mean "technology" in a lot of the cases where he says "science"?  Because as it stands, the quote doesn't make a lot of sense.

This quote strikes me as particularly untrue and ridiculous:

 

No matter how monstrous, no matter how criminal an act may be, if it is justified by science it is unassailable."

 

There are a couple problems:

 

- Science is not, properly speaking, in the business of justifying things, it is in the business of analyzing and explaining them. It has been used to justify things (e.g. eugenics) but that does not make using it that way correct. Oddly, it is religion that often is in the business of justifying things (usually by saying "God says so").

 

- No scientist I know of would suggest that anything "justified" by science is unassailable. While they may not get their moral sense from religious sources (though some, perhaps many, do), most do have a moral sense.

 

Overall, it is an exaggerated picture of the alleged decadence of science that seems based more on misapplications of "science"  rather than an actual understanding of science.

 

Mendalla

 

I think science determines the facts of existence, as far as they can be determined by the scientific method, whereas religion establishes meaning.

 

Although science may someday discover God, or something we might call a "spiritual" reality, it would still be up to us to infuse it with meaning.

 

Personally, I think science already has discovered a or THE spiritual reality. Energy, the basic substance of the universe, can neither be created nor destroyed. If it cannot be created, then it must be creator. And if it cannot be destroyed, then it must be forever. I think is is. Both.

 

And I think science also discovered the presence of a transcendental power or force that transforms energy from one state or form to another. All this is spiritual enough for me.

 

As far as the meaning is concerned, to me this means that we are IT: We are eternal, transcendental or creative energy. If creativeness is the theme of creation, then this is what we are: creator and creative and created (my version of the Holy Trinity :-). So the point of our existence is to be aware of this, and create in the spirit of this awareness.

 

i believe the thomas merton quote also includes, on the same page:

 

"...Meditation on the automobile, what it is used for, what it stands for — the automobile as weapon, as self-advertisement, as brothel, as a means of suicide, etc. — might lead us at once right into the heart of all contemporary American problems: race, war, the crisis of marriage, the flight from reality into myth and fanaticism, the growing brutality and irrationality of American mores."

 

The flight from reality into myth...

 

In other news, who knew these dinos were so schmart?

 

 

See you in space, humanity!

 

One man`s sermonriff on technology (including possible 1st usage of the word)

 

 

One man`s sermonriff on ``materialism``

 

 

In olden times, things were different?

 

Another sermonriff on how the world is different now and the realities that have to be dealt with (UCC included)

Maybe the book was a work of fiction or better yet science fiction.

Hello....

 

I posted Merton's quote only to suggest that, in the same way that Religious means are liable to misuse and abuse, Scientific means are liable to misuse and abuse. That is, I have found no evidence to suggest that Science will succeed where Religion fails.

 

Some among us take Religion to be the means of choice, excluding Scientific means. Others invert the relationship, preferring Scientific means and excluding Religious means.

 

I take it that we do well in the right use of both Scientific and Religious means and err in the misuse and abuse of these available means.  It is in the right use of all available means that we may obtain the survival and flourishing of human being in and through the natural order.

 

George

 

 

science, humanity`s collective cumulative hard-won gradual knowledge (borge`s infinite library, oh my!) determines the ``is`` whilst art, like religion (in the broader sense than the mere ``belief in a supernatural g_d``) determines the ``ought``?

 

laughing at my confirmation biases :3

 

oh, and

 

I would not answer the question itself. Neither science or religion fail or succeed. We fail or we succeed in what we become or what we are. Science and religion in the sense of an 'ology', are just abstractions.

To comment of the question... I find God's creation a brutal thing. All that stands between me and that brutality is God. That is to say, people who, in their brutal world, find God through Christ, and become God's presence in my life. I also find that personally, for whatever reason, I do not have to be brutal in this world... whether at home, in the community, at work or anywhere else. I accept this option. I try to use science, as I know it and religion as I know it, to not be brutal and to avoid brutality. I notice some people participate in the brutality and they use science, as they know it and religion as they know it to further their own 'brutality'  towards themselves, their families, their co-workers, their communities.

So it is we who fashion ourselves... science and religion, and commerce and politics,and art, serve us I think.

At the end of the day, we are personally responsible for our personal existence.... regardless of theologians, scientists, business folk, politicians or artists.

Do you have a BS on Science (observation) alone without any subtle understanding of underlying side effects? people really don't like things under a pile a dirt, or as where  the thinking daemons may have put classic wisdom ... just as a pro fundis as a ditty to a fluted word of Pan!

 

One could be severely stiffled and become simply blissful doing nothing ... like imagining how you could steal from your neighbours the essentuals of life ... or is that simply the lesson of life as seen from nothing ... the genre of soul?

 

Perhaps the real lesson is using all the resources given with light on the f(axis) that only a small amount is sustainable ... leading to understanding of wee things ...

 

Do carbonaceous basis of thoughts as dark things fuel the sun? That could stir the vast imaginary alternate's ID ... cosmological abstraction? Alas a mortal does not yet know how to limit his own vision to things that damage the field all about him and thus psyche drifts off ... leading to eternal bliss!

 

Leads to the vast curiosity about the nature of that Black Hole of mortal minds that appears to have degraded to a mire period or damned spot to be in ...

 

In the escape did we go the wrong way into hype' Eire dimensions? The realm where thoughts just don't fly ... like how far does one go with neural or neutron energy without exceptional "care" about how one does it? The business profile is cut corners ... like everything until nothing is left ... a literary dilemma like an allegory ... well bloodied in the path to heroism instead of humility?

 

If you think about such things you will be humiliated by certain Spartans in that field ... but this might only be part of a greater myth, or darker autonomus things ... like unrevealed thoughts? isn't that the devil of a conjecture?

OSH -ite I was thinking again ... I'll probably be shunned by the blissful ...

GeoFee asks "Will Science Succeed Where Religion Fails?"


The question is rather vague, as it doesn't define what "succeeds" means. Does it mean succeeding at answering the age old questions of who and why we are? Or does it mean succeeding at creating a world where everyone can live in peace and harmony?


Science is a relatively new way of thinking for our species. It was possible before this kind of thinking to achieve spectacular results, as is seen in the building of the pyramids or the statues of Easter Island. In those days there was no divorce between science and religion like there is today, yet they managed to build monuments that science cannot reproduce today.


By itself, and by it's very definition of "studying the systematic behaviour of the natural world", science limits itself to world of form, the world of nature. Religion, on the other hand, attempts to answer the causes behind the physical world, which is the world of energy, or more accurately, the world of "intelligent and purposeful energy" which it calls "spirit". Science abandons the existence of latter, as its realm is restricted to the world of form, to which it says is completely random and without purpose.


Will science ever discover that evolution has a goal and that the world of form is subject to an unseen world of intelligent and purposeful cause? If it does, then it would be the reconciliation of a longtime divorce and it wouldn't likely be called science any more because it would once again reach into the unseen world of cause and spirit. It would be more likely be called "meta-physics" or something like that, as it would be the study of the forces beyond the physical world. Some physicists do ask the hard questions of meta-physics today, which immediately separates them from their peers. Questions such as "where does the electron go when it phases out our physical universe", forces them into a study beyond physics.

i find people have as idealized ideas of science as they do of religion....6 of one half-dozen of the other.... the brutality persists, either way....

 

 

 

 

Hi InannaWhimsey....

 

As one much taken for a flake, I much enjoyed the comic images and text.

 

It was "Calvin and Hobbes" who first pointed me to the strange relationship of Calvinism and Capitalism.

 

Comics shaped my young imagination. The Justice League of America series an example. Each hero with some stigmatic difference setting them apart from the main flow, producing a bias to justice seeking in resistance to prevailing powers.

 

"X-Men"  also wrestle with the dilemma of difference in a world of conformity.

 

George

Thanks Neo...

 

Vague questions are well served by clear responses.

 

George

Apologies Azdgari....

 

Didn't mean to ignore your question. Can we take technology as applied science?

 

George

 

"Intelligent and purposeful energy" ... a weird conjuration to numinous powers as labelled?

 

I say that with tongue in cheek ... as when I speak to people who declare they have the power to save my soul ... "put it on the shelf"! The sou las indeterminate was not mine to begin with ... belonged to the unseen ... as spoken of unconsciously by the Hebrews ... and you know what real mortals feel about scion, icons and Semites of obtuse forces? That's occult in another perspective that can eclipse any apocalyptic event about to occur! The Shadow of a spinning myth that mire mortal cannot unravel ... without psyche or opinionated sou' ... a small thing of mite ... to bug you as insec*tyou-us! How large the humur of outside powers and what cranks eM?

 

Consider a situation here in Eastern Canada in which my wife's aunt and uncle were said to die in 2012 followed by one son in 2013. We attempted to search this rumour out through NS Vital Statistics and old obituaries. Through one site ... we were directed to the NS Privacy Act that in essence told us that such information, belief and opinions could not be divulged by anyone other than regulatory authorities. We couldn't find any evidence of their death and were as much as told to mind our own business which ... isn't ours in the first place.

 

Authorities hate information, it frightens them and restricts what they do by desire, or other want. The solution; conquer and dispose of, isolate or shun anything that is alien to you ... why uncaring overblown emotions are at war with the cosmos ... a losing battle as the cosmos is more ethereal and stretched than reduced wee men in opposition and this the wee redacted type can't get a grip on his opponent ... unless right into IT ... a subversive project according to regulatory authorities that have the BS that wee people ... yes us/eM/paradigm should be kept as num bagos/begos, bread to be empty-minded at central issues? Some archtypical daemon saw different when he arose and wished for something to observe at plae with all that's out there.

 

Alas the mire (dirty) gods wouldn't have that ... thus the separation in the spin ... only the lighter parts escape the centrifical forces of the cosmological whirlwind as it wends its way along ... impervious to more physical powers ... the met aphoric wins in the end and the authority doesn't know it ... thus bliss and both sides win ... and one doesn't know it as schemed by underlying forces ... sometimes called understanding as spoken on the Christian syntax on bliss (otherwise know as innocence, voidness, or ignorance of greater powers than the private self).

 

Nothing stranger under the midnight's Une ... no?

 

When you learn something in life; what should you do with it? Speak of it subtly as otherwise you will be labelled an illegal crazy ... and eliminated from the state Ur in ... leaves those further up fissioned, or Pisce'ð ... as a creature of deep phloe ... an ET'ihc going against the grain, or eþ'en worse? An indeterminate conception ... or ecclsiastic thought! Something one has to gather like chi'Z ... can lead to ribald myths ... quite rye when gotten to the bottom thereof!

Yes, in the olden times, things were different.

 

Once science discovered wave energy, and how particle energy relates to wave energy, and how mass relates to energy, and the quantum states of energy, things were not what they seemed any more. Also, the observer, that shit disturber, entered the field of science and bowled everything over with the startling conclusion that the very act of observing influences the observation.

 

As if all this weren't confusing enough, there came the sobering conclusion that reality might actually be in a state of nonduality or synthesis. Because synthesis is antithetical to analysis, ordinary logic does not apply in the world of synthesis. But nonduality is still logical inasmuch as it is anti-logical: the precise diametric opposite of logic!

 

Illlogic is not antilogic! Illogic is flawed logic, whereas antilogic is the precise diametric opposite of logic, and thus perfectly logical. Logic, when driven to its final logical conclusion, necessarily dissolves in anti-logic, nonduality, or synthesis. Nonduality appears to be the ultimate state of being

 

Thus, it appears that ultimate Truth cannot be grasped by the rational intellect alone. But if nonduality really is the ultimate state of being, then IT can be experienced in the pure, undifferentiated, unconceptualized or non-analyzed experience of reality.

 

Such experience should be easy to achieve. All it requires is non-thinking. Then, refreshed and renewed by its experience of ultimate reality, the thinking mind can re-enter the world of thinking, reborn and refreshed, and think up new and wonderful things, and truly think creatively rather than imitatively.

 

 

Sort of reminds me of Blake's Songs of Imagination and Experience ... what would one have to imagine to experience something beyond what we've been told to imitate by church and governmental law (roué) ... so people would remain innocent of what the authority has done contrary to the greater gutte/good/gode ... or a non utilitarian deviation?

 

I hope the authorities misunderstand or i'll be tried for heresy! You know being cognizant of things forbidden ... like that Chinese citii ... an upset Ur in aL?

By determining that the observer, by the simple act of observing, influences or "creates" his observation, the observer, that shitdisturber, threw the proverbial wrench into the neatly meshed gears of the Newtonian clockwork universe and brought it to a grinding halt.

 

The universe used to be all ghost, then it became all machine, but now the ghost is back in the machine. The universe now has mechanistic and ghostly aspects. The mechanical universe has again become spiritual.

 

But before traditional religionists gloat too much over this, they must realize that the ghostly aspect of the universe is beyond logical comprehension. In the realm of logic, literalized mythology is still flawed logic, whereas accepted scientific theory is as truthful or factual as we can get in the realm of logic.

 

The ultimate Truth of nonduality can only be apprehended intuitively, in the direct, unconceptualized experience of reality. This applies to religionists and non-religionists alike. But when it comes to conceptualizing this experience, the two might differ in their interpretation. Anyway, they will come closer to each other, and the missing link between science and religion might well be the experience ultimate reality by both, and the sobering and humbling insight by both that ultimate reality is a zero reality that cannot be fully apprehended by the rational intellect.

 

 

WaterBouy

whether it is religion, science, politics, socializing, etc., I think in themselves these are different from authority. Authority is given to purveyors of these fields, but that does not mean they are given truth... only authority. The demon is authority given or despotically taken, not faith or reason, neither religion or science. This holds in personal relationships, relationship in community, and relationships as found in the 'jungle' of life. In the end, as individuals and as communities, we are the authors of our own destruction.... as for religion and science as 'ologies'.... 6 of one half dozen of the other, not much to choose between them in themselves

.

 

Arminius

Fair outline of what has happened in some of 'science' over the last 150 years or so... certainly a small drop as compared to what has happened in all the sciences in the last 150 years or so...

It is is huge... religions within religions, as it were. Paradigm changes within paradigm changes. And, yes we look to the 'priests' of science to tell us the changing truths from their 'citadels and monasteries'. Scholasticism coming all over again... perhaps its already here.

so... my 6 of one half dozen of the other view...

the 'sins' and failings in either camp are many

 

Yes, Aldo, I agree.

To me, the experience of the ultimate, nondualistic reality is experiencing God, but this is so only because I am religiously biased and prefer this definition. A science biased atheist might interpret his experience of ultimate reality as an experience of the ALL. But we both would understand that we both experienced the same ultimate reality, only that we use different metaphors describing it.

 

 

 

If I understand then, issues arise when moving away from experieince and existence, to descriptions and words...

... if so, I have read that this was Luther's position in regards to his 'theology of the cross'...

Yes, I agree.

 

its all part of a natural progression

 

 

 

the law of vast numbers, with great numbers (time, distance, interactions) comes everything (cars, space, quarks, life, Geo's clown nose...)

Ah, this is George in his previous incarnation as the Holy Clown of downtown Kamloops!

I've seen that red Gnoes'd rein'd Eire some where's a'fore ... got too far behind and close to authority? There has to be another's ideology to this ...

 

ALDO,

... on your diatribe (doubled sighted for depth?) about authority are you hinting that singular authority could be a corrupt power? This could cause dissonnance in the industrious sorts that would like to reduce all airs into un-breathable Eyres, that would be d' Eire in sorts to the authority ... yet astrophysicists say that carbonaceous gases (fugal matter, for Gabriel's toute'n) are necessary for the rapid expansion of meek stars into larger di-men-Zions (floaters?) of near vapid space ... or the beginning of new solarities as Nus oles in space ... something to loose yourself in while wandering off in an abstraction ... many on the edge of authority do not believe in imagination or any changing impulses in spatial modes!

 

This describes ... not defining of the indeterminate called the Red aD Dress of Sun Dan's when heis cooled by alien encompassment, a dark dogma to say least about the foreign secondary ithchii sensation to wander ... sometimes enscribed as ß' ithchii flaw (fissure) as Ur not allowed any freedoms ... some call this psychic oppression of the Dragon that just begins to glow when approached by the tall stranger ... with dark I'z! Chi'd like to observe that myth of connection when sects were ordered by the patriarches ... thus isolated per-versions!

 

In Paul Harvey's terms this could be taken many ways ... like light travels in deep space---Lord Ruth Eire Fiord! Another odd observation the pious don't like us to know ... that could wend their earth more than they now see it ... flat-lined? Uther Thorian philosophy that led to King Arther's round about ... then there was Richard ... commonly know as a'Dick? This alludes to an empty space in de hoeð (sometimes translated as hoech, or hotch) an other spiritual dimension if you find yourself hung up on bottled ... or Jared! So many periods to connect as alien dot-Eyres ...

 

Then the English encouraged the use of Gin to keep common folk in an unknowing state that eventually lead to repeal of the Corn Laws as roués! This was a dark Roués if you look into it you may not like what you see as it breeds corruption ... different than that in a balanced para dice of psyche ... including Sophia! Leads to e' quitable Philosophy if the 1st entity doesn't work adequately ... sort of like The Mayor of Castorbridge ... the understudy to his soul was sold off!

 

I say this with poetic Imagination as a wee person under the roués (abstract or dark; even though some authorities never believed in the existence of Black Swans, as the Shadow flower dips; don't look Eriç, too late ... up he come as a thorn in the subtle 's ID) of the bible ... I'm not to know these things ... as derilect to gods ... just garbage or disposable to those with tremendous power of not-processing the data served up ... by visionaries otherwise known as observers of what chitty, bang, bang things go on up  'ere in so called pair a Dice ... a dual existence where creation separated emotions from intelligence to see what'd appen sense ... a timeless experience to say least (subtle things). Even the gods would keep that under cover ... why present gods are frequently overlooked by those that can't see beyond the immediate horizon ... as if that's all there is tuit .. a well-rounded thing like ah ole in de ground of faith ... but still unknown! Many lie about their faith in the infinite ... saying they know IT ... thus the myth goes on 'ere!

 

Such is avarice ... the human urge to control things that weren't theirs as mortal links to an infinite stretch ... an abstraction? The things that À Muse that which is beyond mortal ... or circular myth as it goes round the ET'ihc (sheathed) as upstanding thing perscribed for intention, or otherwise covered up so psyche won't see ... and become dissonant as Eris!

WaterBouy

 

Perhaps the urge to control is coincident with the urge to survive... This urge flows into all things... I expect it has been responsible for a good part of the morals and legal systems that have been used in the last 10,000 years.

I expect this same urge drives the individual... it also drives the individual who is 'born again from above'... Once one has tasted spiritual life, everything else becomes a shallow shadow remarkable for its emptiness, yet the urge to control shows up to preserve that spiritual life. It does not take much for individuals and communities to destroy spiritual life in efforts to preserve it...

This is true of communities imposing control over individuals or individuals imposing them selves on both groups and other individuals...

For the individual to protest imposed control is for that individual to join the long challenging line of Pro-testants...

Spiritual life is fragile. I think this is the meaning of the Cross. Demons will do what they will, but angels will choose to tread softly....be it in religion, science, politics, art or commerce, etc.

But if you're not one or the other ... it doesn't support conflict .. which makes the earth-borne gods wealthy ...

 

And such polity does not like medium ... or any means to the end of strife as a romantic myth about 'eros ...

 

I've concluded that means to spiritual medium is just out of here and thus I'am ready to go ... and thus some polity will say there egos again ... another UFO asa hole in de night's Kae!

 

If science is observation of natural truths, and religion is in opposition to such Ta'Ruth's ... does this allow for blind faith for those that don't like to look into de light 've Christ in L'uv? Now that's sheer chaos as heh takes the rye plunge and some of it bounces or reflects as shared in the excitement of the plunge ... that raises dark powers buried and entrained in the depths of myth ... the inside's Torah?

 

One has to look at it back and front, up and down  .. side to ess IDe to be cognizant of the unending entity called quantum dimensions ... a  place to draw from but don't bet too severely on what card you drew ... it may not be as it appears ... just an allegory to hide what you really didn't wish to know ... just face it as something that mortals don't know as a consequence of the state they were sourced from two dice thrown into a mindless aph't fair of mythical twist ... the cosmological scro'J'nn ... where cede is separated if you can cotton to that ...

 

Classic creation seemed to take a liken to it as a way to melt de Isis ... of f(rigid) conditions ... and both sides were warmed after the done kahn were laid out ...

American Association for the Advancement of Science did a study called "Religious Understandings of Science" (a poll really- done in US)

http://m.huffpost.com/us/entry/4811085/

Applied knowledge, at least.  Technology is just "what humans do with their knowledge, using tools".  The pitfalls of technology are not in the knowledge needed, but in the intentions of the humans who employ it.

Agreed.

Well, if it is a matter of scientific versus religious cosmology, then science succeeded where religion failed. But cosmology is not the job of religion, and it is not the job of science to come up with a moral system. This is the job of the religion! I don't think religion has done as well in its field of responsibility as science did in its field.

 

 

If one could a' maas the powers of science (observation) in religion (belief in unknowns that should be avoided) ... would the unknown be revealed or thus become an apocalypse to Dan' sab out ... but then if one doesn't understand "maas" and the attempt to alter the flow at Masada ... did we miss the Platonic Lesson?

 

Tickles my unseen parts, portions and sectors perhaps even my butte that I've never seen ... thus the following literary development about moloch sass ... that'd be Ba'aLems Boehm'r ... with Moloch's large wings ... like dead people heh took flight from 'ere ... without a snatch of fear. It is biblical; says in there (at least 366 times to have no fear). What do the powers of religion do with it ... ah the powers of avarice. Where would creation settle eM?

 

Therefore the great naivity of mankind, abot the knave they didn't wish to know as too wise ... and the dead were buried ... a sublime action in abstract Circe ... if you can imagine that as dragging (dree child)  from the Shadows! Men didn't know this and women had half a clue about extending the race ... alas they didn't know when to quit a silly support system for production of Canan fodders ... the foregoing actions were too enjoyable if not thought about ...

WaterBouy ....... Canan fodders ???....... perhaps Canon fodder ....

The charge of the biblical light brigade ...... led by General Dogma....

I will raise a glass of ruby red to that.....

Rita

...double post....

RITA,

And bubbles of aft hought to you too in the whine as perscribed by 1 Tim 5:23 who is still timaeus and out of sight of omnipotent gods that would guzzle the whole thing ... and thus respond ... I can't believe ... why we have communion in wee bits and bites ...

 

Th'ought? it's just emotive in drag ... a peculiar thing that mother and grandmother put in an isolated maan! It comes to eM later ... as latter dais ain't? All that was left was de script as unconscious mind awaiting reawakening. Alas the powers hated thought and word as if it were myth ... N Frye said word was myth ... something that lives in the imaginary portion of de soul ... often in desolation like psyche ... Erse being out these as Moloch Entire ... as chi'z consumed Ur man ...

 

First he must be put through rough things ... to see if he can learn from alien dirt that's mire ... in spatial perspective ... something that few know! God as WORD said so under cover of a myth that few investigate for subtle data ... why the hoers precedes the cart so maan can learn of HS ... and divine grave ite ... what befalls the yeoman ... that's the page bouy'd with Levite darkness ... as para docs to be unravelled! Tue as soules as fused ... do paired synapses firing together make something out of nothing? Emma jinn nation at work ...

Just to bore the omnipotent as trepanning ... a form of oguring in hard spots ... the love of getting into ammons head? They come in two species: muses and sybils the latter within Eire ... there's nothing you can't get into de Nus of a mind ... if you can find the lonely sole! If you get IT have a grip ... like the talons of Moloch ... the hated Roman thinker!

 

Some ass embly of myths may be required Ecclesiastees ... or its about time!

Hi Guys I posted this out another thread as well . But believe so inporten to let others see this. I will post it here. It  dose also go along with this thread. Warning The ending on this nere knocked me out of my chair. Have a look if you dare.

 

nope .... not interested.....

Hi RitaTG -- Who are you scared of GOD? Or Science?

Hi GeoFee,

 

 

Given that we are now passing into post-modernity are the problems of the modern world still problems that are posed?  Merton died in 1968 are his observations timeless or time-bound?

 

For the sake of discussion what is the "technological mind?"

 

 

I'm not sure I agree with the hyperbole.  When has amorality ever been a fad embraced by society which operates on rule of law?  We might argue amongst ourselves about what should be considered lawful and unlawful or moral and amoral.  I have never seen self-law lifted up as a common good.

 

 

Again.  We emend laws and maybe abolish some even as we create others.  We have not ever done completely away with them so I don't think Merton's allegation even comes close to being factual.

 

In post-modernity which is characterized by a suspicion of institution we are able to observe that even scientific institutions have their authority challenged and a more robust autonomy is prepared to put a personal anecdote on a higher pedestal than either religion or science.

 

Grace and peace to you.

John

Total freedom without reverence for equity ... is just sin on both sides of Din Aries Coine ...

 

Why most on the extremes don't wish to humur the ethereal  medium as something rare and scary to them. Many rigid extremists rest on this so strongly they scare many away from what could be learned on both sides of the vale separating emotions from intellect (takes on a spectre of Valhalla) this sometimes appears as a pall or alien fabrication ... so those that are not curios ... do not see the other side without a peak impulse ... sometimes an end ... sometimes an NDE ...

 

Thus learning of the nature of things beyond you becomes myth ... so it can sneak into that void space without conscience ... thus you are unconscious tuit ... as a Circe ... a mire bubble? Compared to emotions a negative bubble ...

 

Those confused over emotions in the mind believe them to be negative thoughts ... postive thoughts are proto Nache, something to gnash upon or chew over ... the singular psyche loves to play wit'eM!

 

Scares the crap out of realists thus the BS of Moloch something to MLK for all you got to make milking the chiZi myth for all it has as sTory ... the only thing remains when you drift out of here into what's Luce'lye called Emma Jinn Gnashing ... justa rudiment of the former self ! Thus a Tory of the pas'ð with eth-Eire on the end ... sometimed spelt as Toraus ... another incarnation of bull ... just to gravitate the awkward stir ... a çow aL ... or spin of Lamda over head ... grinding out sparks in vacuous manna ... Aries bred and the pyre is lite a Leviathon?

I made the mistake of watching it airclean. It didn't come close to knocking me off my chair. This video is something else alright here you have someone saying how god is so beyond our imagination and at the same time believes Jesus was god. Airclean you have said before that god has personally spoken to you. So here you are agreeing with a guy who says god created this infinte universe but goes out of his way to speak to you personally. The same god who helped write the bible, the same god who confused the language of the people who were going to build a tower to reach the heavens. Just another pathetic ploy by the fundy camp to grasp at more straws. The last person I would trust to give me scientifc evidence of the universe is a fundy with a hidden agenda. BTW I do marvel at the universe but I don't believe yoiur biblical god had a hand in forming it.

goodness airclean ...how do you come up with such a question???

....and only two choices .... LOL 

I don't recall using the word scared or anything like that.....

I have no reason to be afraid of either GOD or Science....

But I do have reason to be wary and afraid of those that try and misuse GOD or Science...

Regards

Rita

- Hi dreamerman --First thank you for watching the vid . As you may  understand I believe little of what you post. But at least the times we have talked, you I believe have been honest enough to have at least looked at  what I said..Just wondering why you see a problem with my belief in GOD. For me to explain to you who or what I believe GOD is . Would take another thread. I will say to you  though. That my belief allows for at least seven parts to the fullness of the GOD Head.Now on your last line dose that mean you don't believe in The LORD GOD of Jesus? Or that you don't think He made the Universe? airclean33