i will be interested to see how this discussion goes.

The parable is far more radical than that.

The admonition to not get rid of the weeds is an admonition to not remove people from your community just because you think they don't belong there.  This is important because it is possible to accidentally get rid of someone who is supposed to be there.

The parable can be further extended to include ideas and beliefs.

Further, the presence of weeds in the field or in the community is not a great concern for the landowner.  What is a concern is that as much wheat/many people as possible will be harvested.

Considering this parable was offered in a setting where a major preoccupation of church leaders was deciding who belonged and getting rid of the unclean, this parable would have been highly offensive to religious leaders.

It is not the parable that I am speaking about. It is the follow up description by Jesus.

I'm thinking that many might think that, while the parable itself might be from Jesus himself, the interpretation was developed by the early Church.

Whew, that makes more sense Red.

Well. Red IS in his name.

Does your thinking apply to aborted babies?  Does it have any implications for anyone still in favor of capitol punishment?  

Crazyheart - I don't think that Jesus interpreted his parables.  That would have defeated their purpose.   He told a parable and then left it with the community for them to figure out how it applied to them and their particular situation.  

So if I were responsible for printing a Bible and highlighting Jesus' words in red, only the parable would be red (or pink).  The commentary would be in regular type.   If I were paraphrasing, I would add a few words, or a footnote, "This is how the early church interpreted these words."

Rather than take their interpretation, I would like to read the parable and then try to apply it to my situation, or the situation of the church today.  "What was Jesus implying that has meaning to me in the here and now?"

Crazyheart, you've really got me thinking about this one.

My first tendency is to want to believe that Jesus wouldn't say such things and that he wouldn't bother to say things that we wouldn't understand. Then when I read further it says  that those who "don't hear" won"t understand. I can re work this parable to soften Jesus's message by saying that even the disciples didn't understand and he eventually had to explain it even to them. This explanation for the disciples, could be seen as a sort of grace or mercy given by Jesus, which could possibly apply to all of us........

Or if I listen to the parable and take it at it's simplest meaning without allowing too much mental gymnastics on my part, it seems to be back to that subject you broached awhile ago about the "elect". That God has predetermined who will be saved and that only his "sheep" will hear and understand. Which of course brings me back to thinking why didn't the disciples understand?

I'll be interested to hear what the ministers(or others more learned than I) on this board have to say, as I'm inclined to think that we prefer to "soften" Jesus's message to suit our own thinking, rather than accept a "hard" reality. That it's possible to understand if we don't change Jesus' meaning of the parable to what WE want to hear.

Added:

Do the elect know that they're the "elect" if this is the case? Seems everyone is equally mystified by God's "mystery".

I,too, hope more stop by. Thanks for your thoughts.

This is a great parable, I believe that Jesus indeed said it, It is a spiritual teaching ,

Matthew 13:11   Jesus replied , “Because the knowledge of the secrets of the kingdom of heaven has been given to you

The sower is the Holy Spirit/God, who sowes in the heart of man, some hearts accept and strive to live it whole heartily with a true love for God, this fruits in the heart of others and thus a true Godly kingdom fruits and grows,  others receive it and understand it but there hearts  love themselves more than God and thus use the spiritual understandings for self gain, usually in the form of greed , these are the weeds, other weeds go even deeper and stronger, weeds who profess to worship and love God the Most High, yet there hearts belong to the light berried Lucifer who they believe is the true god, these deep rooted weeds have a deeper agenda to come against the True Church (Body of Christ) through deceit and manipulations hidden in a context of Love & Godly religiosity. They are shiny on the surface  but there hearts are full of evil intent.

Matthew 13 : 15 For this people’s heart has become calloused;  they hardly hear with their ears,  and they have closed their eyes. Otherwise they might see with their eyes, 
   hear with their ears,  understand with their hearts and turn, and I would heal them

We see and hear with our eyes and ears, but with our heart we understand things, when we Truly give our hearts to Jesus/God, God begins a work, but for those who profess to Give there hearts to God but truly do not , God can judge man's heart and sees the deceit in it and does not work in this type of heart.

The body of Christ, (the Church) is God/Holy Spirit/Jesus driven, those who truly follow are the Children of God. Then we have as a small example, atheist who see the good in biblical teaching, some are even in the pulpit  but are not God driven, these are weeds.

Harsh observation BB

maybe,

but true

..

Now we have BB's interpretation of the parable, and of the explanation attributed to Jesus.  

But Jesus did interpret this parable,,,, you can read Jesus's explanation in  Matthew 13:36

The Parable of the Weeds Explained

 ³⁶ Then he left the crowd and went into the house. His disciples came to him and said, “Explain to us the parable of the weeds in the field.”

 Jesus  answered, “The one who sowed the good seed is the Son of Man. ³⁸ The field is the world, and the good seed stands for the people of the kingdom. The weeds are the people of the evil one, ³⁹and the enemy who sows them is the devil. The harvest is the end of the age, and the harvesters are angels.

   ⁴⁰ “As the weeds are pulled up and burned in the fire, so it will be at the end of the age. ⁴¹ The Son of Man will send out his angels, and they will weed out of his kingdom everything that causes sin and all who do evil. ⁴² They will throw them into the blazing furnace, where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth. ⁴³ Then the righteous will shine like the sun in the kingdom of their Father. Whoever has ears, let them hear.

Well, I'm not a minister and I suspect when it comes to Biblical knowledge I'm not more learned than you, but here's my two cents worth anyway.

Only Jesus can know what he meant - thus we ALL "change the meaning to what we want to hear".

In short, the reality is that to each of us Jesus just happens to end up meaning what we mean.

And that is the reason for the myriad of interpretations.

That explains why 'your Jesus" wants us to accept a hard reality - because you do.

"My Jesus" goes looking for the lost lamb, and doesn't make choices - because I'm not comfortable with the idea of some being damned to Hell when God is supposed to represent love.

More and more I'm thinking that for those of us who profess to be Christians, should just accept the experience of faith and leave it at that - because there is so much we truly don't know.

BB - I know that is what the author of the gospel wrote.  I have a few Bibles within arms reach of my computer, but thank you for the quotation.  

And for your interpretation of  it which you gave earlier.

Those that have ears let them hear, those with eyes let them see ... then what?

Contrary to edits and directives of powerful peoples, one would have to wonder about ID ...

Perhaps they'll begin to think ... an unnatural phenomenon in an emotional people ... where such Furies are a threat to creation. Some conversion would give balance no .... not to much though or you become pathological ... uncaring sol' ...

IÐ's metaphysical thing ... like floaters in the eye ... mere ghosts on the page?

Polynesians said that that manna is unnatural ... like learning in an emotional sole ... bred for the vaster mind ... unconscious to the mortal? That's the other side of the greater fabrication ... mortals don't go there ... afraid of the dark ... say it doesn't exist like d'athe in Hebrew ... ultimate wisdom as God(s) realm too ... in black and white contrast?

Difficult to see and hear if anon doesn't open the bo*OK ... learn the word ... ordinance? That's the rhetoric ... gone with the wind in an emotional state. Look around ... is this crazy or what for thinking peoples?

Random thoughts from my brain, not necessarily my final, personal interpretation by any means:

Are the weeds necessarily people in the literal sense?

Could they be ideas and beliefs that keep people from true relationship with God?

Perhaps Jesus is talking about rooting out the beliefs that people hold that are keeping them from God and, perhaps, that people who cling to such beliefs will follow the beliefs out.

Remove those beliefs and the garden (Church) will grow stronger through a stronger relationship to God and God's Creation.

Mendalla

Only Jesus can know what he meant - thus we ALL "change the meaning to what we want to hear".

[/quote]

why would a teacher, teach , then leave his students Blind?

John 15:15 I no longer call you servants, because a servant does not know his master's business. Instead, I have called you friends, for everything that I learned from my Father I have made known to you.

BB, you can probably find the quote source faster than I can.  Paul wrote about the process of dying including a refining of our dross, leaving us pure.  To follow on Mendalla's post, the refining or removal of weeds can apply to ideas and beliefs.  I noticed you said nothing about the admonition not to do any weeding ourselves.  As soon as you declare whom the weeds are, you are treading on the edges of the parable and this admonition.

Like some of the other posters in Wondercafe, I believe God loves each and everyone of us, and that sending people into eternal punishment because of one or more errors in this life seems inconsistent with a God who is loving and creative.

I agree God is love, but there are those individuals , who have made there choice to not love God back, reject him and his church and even come against it, Christians are called not to weed these people, but to pray for them , for we are not the harvesters or the redeemers  , but we are called to spiritually discern them.

These are wolfs in sheep's clothing's , because God is Love, he calls us to discernment, not so we may weed them , but so we our self's are not spiritually hurt by them . Ask yourself what kind of a Loving God would allow his children to be hurt by spiritual abuse?

So how does a Loving God love booth the wheat & the weeds? simple By speaking the Truth, opening our spiritual eyes & learning to do this in Love.

We see this in the ministry of Jesus, up against the Pharisees, calling them for what they were, the truth hurts, yet Jesus said, 'Forgive them Father for they not  know what they Do"  , but for the simple sinner, Jesus showed love and compassion, but for the deceitful Pharisees Jesus called them for what they were.   

And this is the parable of the sower, booth wheat's & weeds know the truth and consequences or our choices.  

Is a mortal's concept of God ... limited?

Well at least until he can get beyond himself ... a passing myth ... part and parcel of something greater! Outside the fringe I hear a giggle ... or is that inn side an abstract concept below nothing ...

"Deus cognitus, deus nullus" - a God comprehended is no God.

But the deus cognizant is? Is Love, or emotional side cognizant, or is that zero ... just Theo? Odd things in the darkness that human fears ... should get out there ... treasures to be found in the opening ...