Hi Danny Boy - good question & great to see you're getting involved at your university.

I don't have any thoughts on a non God/Jesus worship service to specifically offer; I have participated in various multi-faith services - there are some good resources of that nature available on the Ontario Multi-faith Council website http://www.omc.ca/

I also found this really interesting article about university chaplaincy - coincidentally written by a UCC minister!  http://www.united-church.ca/files/renewal/connecting_university.pdf

I like the idea presented about the "Pause Table" for exam time support.   Also, the 9/11 anniversary celebration they held sounded amazingly powerful.  

Or what about a Sunday lunch gathering - a time when maybe some folks would normally be going to worship if with family, but now are doing different things because of being away at school - a time to get together and debate some issues - peace, social justice etc. - not God or church, but related topical issues.

Actually, from a thread here I just learned about the Charter for Compassion - coming out Nov. 12 - that would be a great thing to organize an event around ... http://charterforcompassion.org/

Good luck!  I will be interested to read what other ideas might come up ...

Worship is 'objective', in that worship needs an 'object' of worship.  Who/Whom/What/Why are you worshipping?  Who would you be praising, or praying to?  Yourselves?  Your Belly-button?  Ish-Kabibil?  (Thou shalt not covet thy neighbours belly button, donchaknow?)  Without any focus of worship, why bother?  Some people get very 'spiritual' at a casino or bingo hall while praying for a jackpot.  It seems to me I remember walking out of a church as a teenager when they tried the warm-and-fuzzy-feeling-but-let's-not-mention-God routine.  It's quite pointless.

hiya!  Well, my two cents' worth is that if you think students would be scared off by God stuff, then a worship service is not the way to go, not matter how inclusive you make it (and I'd argue that a worship service without God ain't a worship service).  Instead, I'd create an event or offering to bring students to the space, and then have tons of info to hand out so that students could see for themselves what kinds of things the chaplaincy dept can offer.  Sooo I'd suggest an event like a free meal (even a bagged meal so that people could feel free to take it "to go" or to stay and eat), with a "goodie bag" handed out with info on the services provided, maybe a dollar store candle holder and tealight, or a stone, some brief writing on the benefit of meditation/prayer, a small chocolate bar (leftover Hallowe'en stuff!) -- little symbols of a life that is connected -- body, mind and spirit.

Does your chaplaincy have video licensing?  A monthly movie and free popcorn with discussion to follow might entice some...

Shalom!

If you want to take God and Jesus out of it and you want higher attendance - maybe hire a pole dancer.

i agree with clergychick. If you water it down to no God, then what's the point.

These are the same questions-kind that I immediately thought of.

Yes, I agree. If it's a service to worship God, talk about God. If it's a service to worship a rock, talk about the rock. If it's a service to worship... etc.

Thank you for that bigotted and completely useless backhanded comment SNP.

My suggeestion would be one of either...

1.  a multifaith service in which as many faiths as you can manage to get participants for are invited to participate in a collective worship service, or

2. a discussion lecture on the role of faith in the lives of university students, with a panel of clergy, philosophy teacher, humanists, etc..

The problem is that a university Chaplaincy has to serve the spiritual needs of many different students with many different views of what God is, or is not.

The point was that it has to be inclusive, not exclusive as you suggest. Otherwise the chaplain is not doing his job.

You could always worship the pole...

"If you are going to have worship then you need something or someone to worship".  Someone said words to this effect in the posts above.  The image we were supposed to take away was, I suppose, was of throngs of "worshippers"  gathered around a monolith or some graven image chanting and dancing by firelight or maybe the Ewoks "worshipping" C3PO because he is shiney and apparently powerful.  But that is a rather narrow and outmoded concept of "worship" and not really descriptive of modern worship.  Worship can be thought of as a dramatization of faith or belief.  (Pole dancers, while being, no doubt, ... and I'm only ... ahem ... guessing here, never having ... hak kaff! ...  actually seen one myself ... are dramatizing nothing, so  it would not be productive to include one in worship).  

In any case, if worship can be thought of as dramatizing or celebrating belief or  "meaning" then it should be quite possible to have "worship" without mentioning God or Jesus, as religion is only one route to the understanding of the meaning of human life.  Certainly if religious feeling will help an individual understand the meaning of their life then it can be recruited into the mix (but  it need not be a requirement).  The cosmos embodies sufficient mystery and wonder and uncertainty (and therefore opportunity for meaningful action) to support a meaning for each individual life and if nothing else this is a cause for celebration and dramatization.

Well then maybe a nice strawberry shortcake tea is in order.

Qwerty if that's how you envision worship, it may be best to use another word rather than to redefine one that is fairly clear.

Remembrance Day is next week ... is the chaplaincy organizing anything? 

Sorry efficient-cause it isn't my conception but the conception of many experienced and qualified religious thinkers who have devoted far more thought and energy to the subject than I have.  Do some reading on the subject and send your complaint to them.

By the way where is Arminius these days?  I think we need him here.

I have been missing Arminius. also .......does anyone know why he isn't around?

perhaps Arminius is attending to harvest season?  Spending time in his fields instead of at the computer?  Just a guess.

Perhaps the chaplaincy is going about this wrong?  Maybe if they decided to do a couple of worshops on the concept of god, and surrounding theology they might then be able to move on to worship?

As-salaamu alaikum

-Omni

Why not do a seminar on meaning in the cosmos the potential for which some prefer to characterize as God (while a shrinking number of others use the term God to refer to some "guy in the sky"), then move on to worship?

One thing my former church did ( in a university town) was invite people who were interested in maintaining ties to a church while at university, to prepare and eat dinner together once a week in the church's kitchen. Then there were some prayers afterwards. One could have a discussion though about what faith means to you, why you are here, etc (I wouldn't really call this worship, but it would be a good outreach activity). If they chaplaincy has a budget, they could spring for pizza fixings and the pizzas could be created together by the group.

Usually, a university chaplaincy has different chaplains representing different religions/ denominations. Perhaps they could all speak at such an event.

 Wow!! 

One day and already 20 comments. This is great! Thanks a ton!

Just a few clarifications I should have made. I do know the traditional definition of worship, however it was the only word I could think of to use at the moment. I was using it very broadly, much in the way Qwerty describes it. 

I have registered all your thoughts and ideas and will think, consult people, and get back to you about whatever we end up doing. 

As for Remembrance Day, something of a memorial is being put together, I believe, yes. 

Again, I like many of these ideas. You have given me much to think about. Thank you. 

Yours in Christ, 

Daniel

Wellll, S-N-P, you would at least get the men out, for sure.  And,I'm certain, as the dancer progressed, you might hear, "Oh, my God" coming from the lips of the onlookers.  The church would get 50% of the money stuffed in her G string.  Again, you'd be worshipping the creature rather than the Creator; sort of the way modern religious and non-religious movements operate anyway.  The church is now, and has been since after the first century, a predominately secular movement; including the various reformations: Protestant, Catholic and English.  If God is removed from the scene, perhaps smoking weed would be the substitute 'spiritual' experience; passing the doobie around as a form of 'communion'.  No Acid, though, remember, this IS a church!

It may have been inadvertant (it pretty much had to be), but that was perhaps the most brilliant suggestion I've seen you make.

The take-home part of this message is, give them something they want.  The pole dancer might be going a little too far, but bring in a few boxes of pizza.  Make it a "smoker", or a "lunch and learn", or whatever you want to call it.  You can lure students a lot easier with a free meal.

I'd guess that many students have a faith tradition that they are/not currently following.  I'd also guess that many more are attracted by the idea of faith but don't know anything about the options.

What about a series of presentations on some of the varieties of faith followed by a short example of the worship used (and more specially - why it looks and sounds the way it does)?

Some discussion opportunities around such things as -

if God is an all powerful Man in the Sky, the Great Creator - how come he allows bad stuff to happen.

if God is an ideal we hold dear - why does he need worship?

is there any meaning in a Christianity as represented by the ancient creeds?

Hi Danny Boy.  Worship merely means to hold up as worthy and something for which you would give your entire self/life in exchange for the benefit that you receive.  Traditionally that has meant a god(s).  So now if we don't have a belief in a god, we can look to what we would give our whole selves.  For me that is to the values that I deem worthy, ex. love, compassion, trust, care, justice, integrity, etc.

The church that I attend has non-theist communal gatherings.  The service that you are looking to create is celebrated each week in our setting.  If you would like, wondermail me and I can try and show you some resources.

Best of luck...cms

Danny Boy, There are tons of resources for services without Jesus or God.

All,  Did we forget all those other religions out there have services?

There are tons of interfaith and intercultural services. What about the familiar Scarboro Mission or KAIROS?

Did we forget humanists? Aboriginal services?

People have liturgies and music and rituals without it being God or Jesus focused.

Let us come forth in light. Not floodlights that blind us, but soft gentle flickers of light that illumin the way through darkness....

That which draws us here, on our journey, our quest.... come and let us each find in this place, with these fellow travellers on their own journeys, that which we seek...

We have been guided during our time together.... may we go finding comfort, wisdom and strength....  

As we go, may we know we remain together is spirit and purpose....

Essence of Love as we continue this journey of life outside these doors....

In this time of anxiety may I find peace.... grant me insight and understanding....

In this circle, we will sing and dance to each others songs, hear each others words... let us when we part do so with added understanding and do so calling each other "Friend"...

Not hard to not mention God and still have profound meaning.

Most often we leave everything to god, we sometimes pray to bless us on whatever we do. For instance, playing at casino, most gamblers are praying silently to win the game and get the money that they bet. However, not all the time they win the game, as sometimes they lose. God has reasons for all of these. Talking about casino, Bill Seebeck could be an example of this. The Seminole Hard Rock Casino says that Bill Seebeck will not pass go, and will collect zilch – that of course being the incident with headlines of "Casino Denies Man Jackpot."  Bill Seebeck went into the casino in Tampa, Florida, and started playing a progressive slot machine.  The machine erupted in noise and light, announcing that he'd won a jackpot of $166,666,666.65 – which the casino denied, claiming that it was a faulty machine.  Seebeck got a lawyer, and decided to have a chat with the casino – who decided to give him some cash to keep it on the QT.  The headlines didn't get them great press.

Here's a thought:  Math works.  Sometimes you win, and sometimes you lose.  Your win-lose ratio over time will come out to pretty much the same as the odds going in.  There is no God in this.  Believing that you win or lose at the casino for any particular reason (including God) can lead to gambling addition.  There is no reason - it's just simple odds.

If God is in the machine, notice all the sixes!

Other than the Number of the Beast, what the hell does this anecdote have to do with anything?

If you don't want to mention God, worship Mr. Spock from Star Trek.  He's 'out of this world'.  He satisfies the atheist mindset because he is a 'real' fictional character.  Instead of 'peace be with you', you can always utter 'live long and prosper'. Anyone who can't do the Vulcan salute is automatically eliminated as 'genetically inferior'.  Just don't try to beam aboard like heaven's gate did; and don't let anyone talk you out of you 'nads'.  In the name of the (unmentionable) and the (unmentionable) and the Holy (unmentionable).  Amen.

Sorry if I'm a bit late getting in here, but as a UU I think I may have something to offer here. As cjms suggested, worship does not necessarily have to mean worship of a God/gods. For UUs, as in her non-theistic church, worship can mean upholding and celebrating that which is worthy. For some of us, that may involve deities of some kind, but for many of us it is celebrating the awe and wonder of the universe or the values that we share. If you want some non-theistic worship resources, try this:

http://www.uua.org/spirituallife/worshipweb/index.php

UUA Worshipweb was originally designed as a supplement to the readings in our hymnbook, but over time has taken on a life of its own and even has sermons and whole services in it now. Some of it is theistic, some is not, some works well for almost any setting. There are even some Christian pieces in there that would work well in any Christian setting.

Mendalla

I agree with Saul_now_Paul.   What is the point of having a service with a chaplain.   Hiring an on call pole dancer would be cheaper than than the salary of a chaplain and if you leave God and Jesus out of the service what is the point of the service?

If you are an Army chaplain, you do services for the Army and are employed by the service. A hospital chaplain does services for those in hospital, employed by the hospital or another agency. A university chaplain for those in university... Chapliancy is interreligious. A chaplian can be a Muslim, but has to attend Muslims and non-Muslims. A chaplain can be Jewish and will attend Jews and non-Jews.

You want to be clergy for your own faith or denomination, employed by them, you stay clergy.

Chaplaincy is about serving. It is about not preaching, but listening.

Wow!

I wish you blessings in the important ministry you are undertaking and it sounds as though an interfaith service would be a good place to make yourselves known.  I know that young people can be a tough crowd and easily put off by too much religiosity.

The youth that I interact with are passionate about caring for the environment and about diversity so those themes are ones which would work very well in a liturgy.

Good luck!!

The first thing that comes to mind, is that chaplains must be paid a lot more that I thought they were.  Please don't tell the pole dancers.  They'll all stop dancing and starting working as chaplains.  The high heels and tassels will be distracting.

If you leave God and Jesus in the service, how is that any better?  All you've done is worship two guys (and at the same time, one guy) who clearly aren't all that interested in you, even if you make the wild assumption that they exist in the first place.

I think music is universal. I remember dissecting Dylan and Simon and Garfunkel when  I was younger.  Find some current controversial songs that would open up discussion and be relative to their lives.

@qwerty: Do you any suggestions on authors/resources I should look into?

I was often invited to speak in unitarian churches which never, ever, mention Jesus. I can't remember God, either, though there is occasional mention of some sort of non demonational spirit which might or might not have either form or anything at all. Theavoidance was so obvious it was often comical.

Earlier, there was a period when my own attachment to the church was much indoubt. Speaking on those occasions, I had not problem avoiding mention of either God or Jesus, It seemed to me the result was that the only thing people remembered of what I said was what I didn't say.

In hindsight,   I irealize I would have been wiser to speak of the fundamentally practical qualtiy of just about all major religions.  Forgiving is not just a sort of sweetie thing to do. It is also an effective and intelligent way of analyzing problems and dealing with them. The ten commandments are very intelligent basic rules a society needs in order to survive.

So my inclination would be to explore that practical nature of some of our religious tenets, and use Christianity and other faiths. For sources, you could do a quick job on google - forgiveness Christian. Then forgiveness confucius. Then forgiveness Hindu. Something like that.

That will also take attention away from  your omission of Jesus, and keep it on your theme.

A number of years ago  B.C. (Before Children), my wife and I attended a service in a 'traditional' congregation who had a lay guest speaker that Sunday.  The guy never mentioned God or any scripture references throughout the service.  He spoke about our 'experiences' in religion, and asked at the end, 'What are you experiencing now?'  It was all I could do to not shout out "Boredom".  We decided we would have gotten more out of shooting pool that morning or going fishing.  People do their voting with their feet.  That service was a total waste of time. 

efficient - cause ... Don't waste my time.  Go to the library.  Start reading.

@qwerty - Waste your time? I'm asking a serious question and I'm genuinely interested in the answer.

Danny Boy,

this would require researching what the students are Passionate aboot.  Find it, and then do an activity/talk aboot it with someone who is also Passionate and a good communicator.

Here is an example of Passion: http://www.ted.com/talks/clifford_stoll_on_everything.html

Essentially, show them what it is to be in Love.

Just a Self-writing poem,

Inannawhimsey

talk about forgiveness. don't talk about it as a religious rule. Talk about it as a rule that has a common sense reason. Make it clear it does not mean "that's okay". I means we must deal with you - but we deal with you my understanding you are neither a saint nor a sinner but a person. Or talk of it as something that has to do with a mature understanding of current events. There is a reason, a human reason, but people act as they do.

Talk of the ten commandments as a practical set of rules. Moses had a mob to deal with. How was he going to hold them together? Why those ten rules?

I wouldn't be afraid to use the Christian context. What I'd do is to put it in the real world.

You cannot fool people - if you read those who have been or are compus ministers for the progressive churches you will discover they never or do not hide who they are.  It is nothing worse than having a service that is about nothing when you have something to say.  You can put on programs that invite and are open but a worship service  - it fools no one when there is no center.

I would recommend a book by Phil Clayton Transforming Christian Theology which goes beyond pluraism 1.0 to pluralism 2.0  The first is the last gasp of modernism and is warmed over relativitism and the later is an appreciation of the insights of the other while having a real sense of what you are about and then connections are mad.

Have pot luck lunches or feed people - it is a question of word of mouth that deep questions can addressed in non dogmatic ways.