I don't think she's obliged to do anything, but from a practical standpoint she might be best to have  relationship with a women-only salon or a someone who can cut her hair privately (my wife does this with a colleague's wife who's a hairdresser).

Mendalla

I think it might have been better for her to show some respect for other people who use the same hairdresser.  One option would be for her to make it clear to the staff at the time she makes her appointments that she isn't willing to be seen by a male when her head is uncovered.  Doing that simple thing would make it practical (not necessarily by telling the whole story)  for the staff to ensure that no males are scheduled around the time of her appointment,  

Inconsiderate actions like this womans are one of the reasons people  express dislike for those of other faiths.  They get just as upset by people who accost them on every possible ocasion to quote Bible verse at them. 

Hi crazyheart,

I don't think that there is any obligation for the Muslim woman to do anything but book an appointment and maybe state religious requirements.  If the hair salon cannot accommodate those needs it can simply inform her that it can't>

I also fail to see anything controversial.

The hair salon made a mistake by removing the young man.  The hair salon compensated for the inconvenience to the young man by giving him a free hair cut.  Seems to me like everything has been looked after to the satisfaction of both customers.  If somebody is complaining about this they need to give their heads a shake.

Grace and peace to you.

John

I agree with Revjohn, it was up to the business.

A lot of hairdressers that cater for mainly female clients - also seem to have male hairdressers (I put it down to the super sexy Warren Beatty in the movie "Shampoo" )

Seriously, I can see it could be a problem for a Muslim woman living in a western community.

Seems like a good business opportunity for some enterprising woman  -an all female staff and client business. (although, this also conflicts with discrimination issues)....

There is an all female (and boys up to 12 years of age) swimming pool I attend in summer.

I often see Muslim women swimming there - along with elderly women -and young women with small kids. It provides a valuable resource, but every year it's right to exist is challenged.

There are so many hair dressers that operate out of their home though Pilgrim.  They can only take one client at a time.

Kaythecurler

How do you know that she didn't express that statement.

Most business people would choose to try to meet a clients expressed needs.  It sounded to me like they were taken by surprise when there was an objection to the boy seeing the Muslim customer.   My guess is they would have preferred not to feel obligated to put a customer in a back room - and delay their appointment for so long they felt a need to apologise by giving a free haircut.

Probably lots of room for guesswork - but that was my 'take' on the OP.

I presumed the Muslim women expressed her requirement, and one staff said "not a problem", forgetting about the boy, or not checking the appointment book.

In the case of diverse cultures it is too easy to presume the "other" is at fault.

Errors in customer service occur all the time with staff, confusion on appointments, lack of communication between teams.

i would presume the ordinary, rather than the extraordinary or rude.

I agree!  It sounds to me like this was all a misunderstanding. I think the woman should be able to book a cut whenever she wants - and that the company should be able to say whether or not they can accomodate her at that specific time (for example, if they have a prior booking for a man at that time they should suggest an alternate time instead). 

If I owned a hair salon in an area where there was a sizeable Muslim population, I might consider purchasing something like a portable screen or curtain that I could set up around the chair.

Here's another going the opposite way:

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toronto/story/2012/11/15/toronto-haircut-m...

Basically, the men won't cut a woman's hair.

I wonder if she went into that shop knowing that they likely wouldn't cut her hair and intending to cause trouble?

I have absolutely no problem with barbershops, hairstyling salons, etc., being gender specific in their clientele. Female hairstyles tend to be quite different from male ones, so I have no problem going to a place that specializes in cutting hair like mine. For me, its' really no different than going to a clothing store that specializes in either women's or men's clothes.

From the picture, to be honest, I wouldn't have guessed 'she'.  If someone wants their hair cut at a barbershop and pay the barbershop price I think that's understandable.

as a young elementary school kids mom took us to the Barbershop for  "pixie cuts".

It wasn't a problem.

I caught it on tv, she went in for a man styled haircut.  If we allow a barbershop to discriminate against her, do we allow them to do so for transgendered people?

In this case my sympathies are with the barbershop.  The owner is a Muslim who stated he couldn't touch a woman's hair (other than his wife's) - she should have respected that and moved on to somewhere else.  Seems to me the woman went in there deliberately looking for trouble, with an attitude of entitlement.  She is showing absolutely no respect for the Muslim culture by making a huge issue of the event.

Would it have been any different if the owner had said, "I'm really busy right now and can't accommodate you for a couple of hours."

Great article in today's STAR..

http://www.thestar.com/news/gta/article/1288503--dimanno-human-rights-su...

That boy's mother needs some respect counselling: in a world where mny people queue for hours to buy essentials, her sense of entitlement seems monstrously inflated. The salon was doing what it does. Moslem women are entitled to haircuts. I've ben screwed around toyally by a few service providers but it's always been due to ineptitude more than anything else. They're just trying to make a living. Hairdressers are seldom overpaid. Suck it up. 

Mike, what are your thoughts about the barbershop?

I'm not saying I agree with McGregor, but I can see where it starts to create an issue.  Businesses do have to accomodate people regardless of gender, colour, disability, etc. unless there is undue hardship.  Would hiring someone who is willing to cut women's hair be an undue hardship for the barbershop?

Chemgal, wading in here, although your question was directed to Mike.

Read this excerpt from The Star...

"Not 50 metres away from the Terminal Barber Shop is a unisex salon that offers basic haircuts to both men and women for 15 bucks. Almost next door to that establishment is the Terminal Barber Shop 2, also co-owned by Mahrouk. At both Mahrouk joints when I visited yesterday — cozy, comfy places with leather retro chairs — the male scissors-wielders were friendly, if somewhat taken aback by all the fuss, as McGregor writes that she was “taken aback’’ by the refusal to cut her hair."

Gecko, it is a different business.  I'm also confused, is the unisex salon the Terminal Barbershop 2, or is it a 3rd business? I don't know what McGregor's intent was.  Maybe she wanted to go to the oldest barbershop in Toronto (that's what I heard it called anyway).  Maybe there is a price difference.  Maybe one takes walkins and the other doesn't.  Maybe it was just to make a point.

If right when she went to the barbershop and they said they couldn't cut her hair, but they could do it for the same price a few doors down (or even better yet, brought in a barber from the other location) then I would say she's being ridiculous.

SHe was offered the opportunity to go to the other Terminal shop where there was a non-muslim barber, but she refused.  Picking fights over minor inconveniences sucks away public support for the important fights.

Come on, Chemgal. To try and make a civil rights issue out of this is so totally ubsurd: her attitude is offensive, if this is going to be considered as a civil rights. She is displyaing almost insane hypersensitivity and deep bigotry… not to mention crass ignorance. 

I find debating this soo dense Canadian dumb it sucks. Far too often, Canadians deny their xenophobia and racism but huff when anyone fails to clone their self-centred, precious denial. And, sorry, but it does make me angry; it's a cutely worded but highly effective form of exclusion. It is founded on fear and seteretypes and entitlement and is a good part of the reason why so many northern communities experience such deep deprivation and new immigrants find it hard to fit in as they deserve to (having been selected for admission on the basis of their skills and/or the capital they bring with them. It is an attitude that's typified by that odious term "visible minorities" who often crop up as the butt of patronisation. It's generally not their attitides that are the problem; it's the labelling.

People have different values. There are accommodations to be made in any relationship. Missing a haircut is an inconveniece, not an assault, nor even an insult. It is pathetically easy to get around in a place like downtown Toronto. Live with it.

Jim, I feel as though the barbers should have done so right away though, rather than waiting until the complaint was filed.  Maybe it did happen right away as well, but it doesn't seem like it, as the article Gecko posted probably would have stated so.

I agree it's a minor issue, but I could see it becoming a larger one.  It's also a little fun to discuss as I don't feel either side handled it well.

Mike, interesting comments when you're making broad statements about Canadians :)

I AM making broad statements because it is an highly discernible aspect of Canadian culture. And it does piss me off.

This woman is not talking about a haircut. She's revealing a widely white-Canadian sanctioned sense of entitlement, and it's driven by racism/culturalism/bigotry.

Mike, I agree with you that to this woman it's not about the haircut.  It might be a xenophobic or racist attitude, but it might not be.  I don't know her.

I do understand getting frustrated due to sexism.  Many salons charge more for a woman's haircut than a man's.  She may have decided the best way to avoid being charged for a woman's haircut when she wanted a man's style cut was to go to a barbershop, as they don't usually offer a woman's style.  She hears about a place with an atmosphere she would like to experience with the retro chairs.  She runs in on her lunch break, after dealing with a sexist coworker and is told she can't get her haircut because she is a woman.  This is how she takes out her frustration.

Wow! Chemgal, for someone who says she doesn't know anything about this woman you have written a deeply empathetic and minutely detailed apologia.

Could you do the same for the hairdressing shop propriietor who is now obliged to pay legal fees to defend himself?

Have you not been told by a shop assistant of proprietor that they are "out" of a usual product, that they are over-booked, that some-one's "tied up" and can't help you right now. Have you never had a doctor refuse to see you because s/he has to go to the hospital for an emergency?

And if the service somewhere sucks, you don't have to go back there.

I say, if you book an appointment and say, "I need a block where no men are in the salon"
and they say ok, then ok it is.

I can see if you call and say the same and they respond, "we are unisex and can't promise that, there may be a male walk-in (if they do those) or a male may come in to make an appointment even if we do not book them near your appointment"

McGregor does not have my support. She was inconvenienced and nothing more. It is like heading into a diner and wanting pork and there is none on the menu because of the owner's religious belief. You cannot get what you want there. That is not discrimination just because you wanted it.  She was not discriminated against.

I get my hair cut with a #2 or #3 clipper on back and sides, scissor blended on top. I am not a woman getting a men's cut. I am transgender, so I am a male getting a male cut. I have been asked to pay the women's cut which is always higher. Before finding the person I use now, I used to phone in and book "a men's haircut".

I would respect that a Muslim man would not cut my hair. Maybe that is because I am more understanding than self centred or looking for a fight.

Well, seeing we're having a bit of  a "bad hair day" on the thread I might as well add to it.

I'm beginning to see that there are some advantages in being raised in a former penal colony......

You grow up with a sense of knowing you're flawed. You make mistakes, you have opinions, you know somethings - but not a lot - in the vast scheme of things..

You know that at times you're racist, homophobic. (You remember the times when you inwardly groan when you hear an Indian accent on the information line - you never buy a young male child a doll.)

But, here's the thing. Knowing you're flawed gives you a tolerance for a counter opinion.

There is a lot I admire about Canadian culture. As a country you have much to be proud of.

But, hey, a little navel gazing is in order, IMO.

There is a certain arrogance in the way so many here assume the moral high ground.  I'm beginning to wonder if it's culturally based? Why is there so little tolerance of the other's point of view?

It's as though all that is "wrong" is projected onto the other. Whatever the issue, one point of view is expressed and then defended. It's as if there is this giant wall constructed with all that is "moral" on one side  (my side!) and all that is "wrong" on the other.

I really don't think it's that simple.

I would like to see more attempts in threads at grappling with our own flaws and inadequacies, and less about the flaws of others.

It's why I wrote about my battle with a depressive illness -and why I read about chansen's concerns for his son's future.

I don't want a sermon, I just want folks to be real........

Here endeth the lesson.

Oops, SG, our posts crossed - please do not think I was addressing my remarks to you....

well, Im confused. It was a man's shop and she shouldnt have been going to that one in the first place.There are many unisex shops = even Zellers is.

The woman is just making trouble ,I think.

As an aside, I found the comment "butch-style" offensive.

SG, I appreciate your comments.  I disagree that there was no discrimination though.  Discrimination is usually assumed to be negative though, and it's not always a negative thing.

I agree that McGregor likely went to cause trouble, I don't know that for sure though.  I'm not taking her side, just thinking this through a little.

Mike, I posted a comment from one side as their already was a link from the other.  It doesn't mean I am taking that side.  I can't be empathetic to the same extent from the other way, but I can be sympathetic.

Mahrouk buys a barbershop, and assumes that even though his and his employees' religion forbids cutting women's hair that it won't be an issue, as it is a barbershop and not a salon.  Women don't typically frequent barbershops.  It probably took a while to build up this business, but with good service things are going so well he opens a second.  Now this has happened, and he was probably confused when the woman even came in requesting a haircut.  Maybe he would have suggested the 2nd location, where there is a barber who isn't Muslim and would be willing to cut a woman's hair, but she called his policies sexist and stormed out before he had the chance.  Now he's dealing with the legal issues as well as the negative PR when he would rather be focusing on his business.

I don't think McGregor went to cause trouble.

I think it is payback for the inconvenience caused to her what with two other barbershops within a stone's throw of this one.

I wonder if she will be taking the next restaurant who tries to serve her Coke when she clearly asks for Pepsi to the human rights tribunal?

Frivolous.

I get a butch going to a barbershop for a butch haircut. (BTW I am not sure I understand that word or phrase (butch-style) offending a straight person. Does femme? Why?)

Salon employees can really have a problem going short and may not get -no points at the ear, square it off. Some salon clientele can really be rude or stare. Cliper cuts are also tough and require someone with experience. Most salons do more styling, colouring, perming than clippering.

I get that those with the most clipper experience may be in a barbershop.

I get that most people opening a barbershop figure on a predominantly or exclusively male clientele.

I also understand Muslim men and Orthodox Jewish men cannot cut womens hair. They are not allowed to touch women they are not related to or married to. Orthodox men cannot sit next to women they are not related to or married to and there would be the added situation of coming in contact with clientele during niddah (menstruation).

So, told you cannot get a haircut there you have choices. You can say "ok" and head down the block.. You ask, "Why not?" or you don't ask.  You can say "WTF" (to yourself or them) and leave. You can complain to everyone, you can go home and Google it.... You can listen to their answer and go "wow, I never knew that" or you can go "that is stupid" or "how sexist".

I am not sure that upon being told I was a sexist that I would say "Please forgive me and my religion" and think to tell them about another place. I would most likely be thinking, "whatever".

I am not sure how you wind up at the HRT.
 

It will be interesting to see what happens with McGregor's case. I too think she should just have taken her business somewhere else. A human rights case is a bit overboard, since he did recommend someone else.

However, given that salons are usually much more expensive than barbershops, I can understand  that if a woman wants a short haircut, going to a barbershop is a good idea. If anything, it's sexist that at a salon, men's cut costs usually about 10-20 dollars, and a woman's cut costs at least twice as much, even if it's as short as a standard men's cut and takes the same amount of time.  I would think that's a big reason why some women would  go to barbershops. If there's a good one near me that does women's styles, I'll go. I'm going to check that out. I go to hairschools but even they are getting pricey--so I will check out barbershops next time! Thanks Faith McGregor.

They probbly don't get many female clients dropping in, but I do think the owners should make it clear that the shop is "men only"--and maybe a little discalimer that they would be happy to recommend someone else.  An even better idea, and good business sense for them. would be to hire someone who is able to cut a woman's hair (like salons have people who specialize in haircolours or perms or whatever). Beyond that I don't see a problem for her to go to the person he recommended. He accommodated her sufficiently, imo. He wasn't rude.

In the case of the woman who was turned away by the muslim men I strongly suspect that if they had used some other reason  like telling her 'we don't know how to do that style' or 'we are not trained to style women's hair, we don't want to ruin your hair' there wouldn't be an issue.

Stevie, Butch is a derogatory term ,imo,. I just don't like to hear some one called butch.

It is interesting, as within a group a term can be used by a member of a group, but which when used by someone outside of a group, it can be derogatory

Pilgrim, of all the Western countries, Australia had by far the most violent riots over "that movie". I don't think there was any violence in Canada (but I'm not positive).
.
As for Mike, feel free to move elsewhere. You don't seem to like Canada much. Back to NZ? Don't the let the door hit you on the way out.

I'm confused and perhaps I missed something - what movie are you referring to? 

I've read a lot of his posts and many of them are quite complimentary to Canada. I have no problem with occasional criticism from him.

Mike, as to your earlier question, I would have no problem with a place denying someone because they are too busy.  Gender discrimination is prohibited by law, discrimination based on when someone arrives is not prohibited.

As to comparing this situation to a restaurant, the above is a poor comparison.  She wanted a style of haircut that is offered.  Cutting a woman's hair is no different than cutting a man's hair when the two styles are the same.  In a restaurant it would be like a man being able to get a alcoholic drink but a woman being denied the same drink simply because of her gender.

Just curious, does anyone know if the opposite is true?  Are Muslim women not suppose to cut men's hair?