I feel the same about Dobermans and Rotweillers. I just see more Pit Bulls around. Rescue dogs, maybe. I don't think they should be put down if they haven't attacked. I just think they should live on farms/ big properties and not be bred as city/ suburban family pets.

I don't see a problem with them.  There was a study done on dog bites or attacks or something similar, and pit bulls were not even on the list.  There are a pretty good family dog (when it comes to stereotyping a breed) - think of the 'Nanny Dog'.  I don't agree with leaving young kids alone with a dog, but still it gives you the idea.

I think the city here has a good rule for restrictions.  It's based on the dog and not the breed.

I do agree with the leash rules too.  If dogs make you nervous, avoid the off-leash areas.  Big dogs generally are better trained than small dogs, as they can do more damage.  I wish all dogs were better trained though.

Chemguy lived in a house with two pitbulls for a few months.  I was there once.  They were very friendly, but weren't given enough time to run off their energy and were not well trained.  I didn't feel safe around them, not because I thought that they would attack, but just from being jumped on.  In general, I don't like poorly trained big dogs, especially on days when I'm feeling a bit less stable on my feet, so I do understand where you're coming from Kimmio.

lol I just asked Chemguy about them - Big and Stupid!  Also slobbery.  Friendly.

There was a teenage girl about 8 or 10 years ago who had part of her face ripped off by a pitbull walking on the sidewalk of a busy residential/ shopping area street in East Vancouver. I remember the photos in the paper and I have since developed a bit of a phobia. My friend in Toronto managed to free her little dog from the jaws of a pit bull they were playing with in a dog park a few years ago. There's a dog park near here. I just don't trust them, and they can probably sense it.

I actually don't think the plaza area near my work is an off leash area. It's mostly a commercial/ business, non-residential area. But it's big enough that people probably just run their dogs, off the leash, anyway.

Ugh!  Have your dog on a leash then!  That's the issue.  Have you considered contacting the city about it?

The funny thing was growing up I had no idea about that bylaw.  Dogs off their leash all the time, but it was just on a quiet residential street and not a park.  I don't see that as much anymore, I've seen it once here.  It was a tiny dog, could fit in my hand, by the condos and it stuck almost between the guy's legs the entire time.

In that plaza- which is like a concrete "park" there are signs up all over the place saying "no skateboarding" but the skateboarders are very often there anyway. Lots of steps and benches and rails to do tricks on. I actually don't mind them. They're fun to watch and they will stay away from people minding their own business. I'm pretty confident they won't jump on me! Lol. They're human, for one thing. They have good physical control, obviously. Some are very talented and they are not making trouble, in my opinion. Unlike dogs who get spooked and behave by instinct. I mind skateboarding much less than I mind owners keeping big dogs (especially pit bulls) off leashes, interestingly. I actually chatted with an "old timer" skateboarder the other day. He asked me where my boots were made- the "street" (not necessarily homeless) people are often friendly, back to that conversation. He was about 35-40. My step brother's one of those semi pro skater guys who's been skateboarding since he was 12.. I kind of understand them. It's a passion. A lifestyle. They're like urban gypsies looking for new interesting spots all the time. He was commenting on what a great spot it was. I'm sure he saw the signs but didn't care. Probably is used to getting tickets. Maybe if I called the city, they'd get kicked out, too.

Anyway. I'm derailing my own thread. Back to dogs. I feel sorry for all big dogs in the city. I've even seen great danes and most residences downtown are small. I think there are probably quite a few big dogs who get cooped up in small apartments while their owners are at work. Which would make their urge to be free much greater by the time they go for 'walkies', I would think. More reason for me to feel nervous around pit bulls in the city, or not?

Pocket dogs, even off leashes, don't bother me. They make me laugh. Especially the ones who think they're big and tough.Even if they bite my ankle I figure the damage will be minor if anything. I can shoo them off with my cane if I have to. There's a chihuahua who lives near me who is so small, a little bigger than a squirrel maybe, and ventures away from her owner when they're out walking, I almost stepped on her one night because I didn't see her coming. :( actually, you'd think that would be a good reason for owners to want to have their dogs on leashes. So the dogs don't get hurt. Notwithstanding, the ones who have dogs that could hurt others.

A few mistaken ideas here.  Actually many big dogs do very well in the city.  It is the hyper, high energy dogs that need more space - dogs that were bread for the chase - sporting breeds and some toy breeds are typically excitable, quick, active, high-energy.  The tiny little Jack Russel terrier (I almost typed 'terror') is constantly active.  It will go crazy wrecking the house while the great dane settles down for a day-long nap.  And the beautiful retriever can run all day long.    So no, don't go by size - consider breed when thinking city dog/country dog.   And I have never heard of a pit bull (is that actually a recognized breed?) being a farm dog.  (think herding breeds (collie, sheltie, German shepherd, corgi) as farm dogs).

OK - back to your topic of pit bulls.  I wasn't sure they were even a recognized breed but I googled and found that they are.  They are terriers.  There seems to be a wide variance in size from about 25 pounds up to about 70 pounds.   Any dogs larger than 70 pounds has probably been crossed with a bull dog or other larger breed. 

OK - back to your topic of pit bulls.  I wasn't sure they were even a recognized breed but I googled and found that they are.  They are terriers.  There seems to be a wide variance in size from about 25 pounds up to about 70 pounds.   Any dogs larger than 70 pounds has probably been crossed with a bull dog or other larger breed. 

.
From what I understand, their temperament depends on how they are treated and trained. Like all dogs, they need to be handled with loving care. And they need to be trained. They are eager to please their owners - therefore they need to know what their owners expect of them. If they are taught that it will make Daddy happy if they are aggressive - that's how they will behave. But if they are taught to mind their manners they are as trustworthy as any dog.
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Like any dog they should by under the control of their owners and on a leash in cities or any crowded area. Because of their size and strength, it is probably more important for the owner to make sure he has control at all times. I don't think this means putting a muzzle on a dog that has never shown aggression towards any other animal or person.
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As for your fear - that is a different matter. I really don't know how people with serious phobias deal with them. I had a friend who was irrationally afraid of birds - any birds - loud birds that squawk, swallows that swoop, pigeons and gulls that come close. Even a budgie or canary in a cage made her so nervous and uncomfortable that she would only visit homes if the owner removed the bird cage to a far room. She coped - she avoided getting out of the car at times if there were a lot of gulls around. I have a picture of her walking across a park, between two friends, carrying a broom to swing in case any of the swallows happened to swoop down near her. She didn't know the reason for her fear - she couldn't remember ever being chased by a goose or anything. She was just scared.
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My cousin is the same about mice. I mentioned to her once that we suspected that a mouse had gotten into the house and taken up residence in the basement. She told me that she could never visit again - and she didn't until some time after I assured her that it had been trapped and disposed of and there was no evidence of any others.
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A phobia must be very difficult to deal with. And big dogs can do a lot of damage if out-of-control. So can big cars that might speed through red lights or jump the sidewalk.
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And little dogs are actually more apt to bite. Cats have been known to attack and cause damage. Wild animals can attack, trample, bite, scratch, spray, throw quills - and spread disease. But our lives are enriched by their presence.

Stats definitely show that there are far more dog attacks by other breeds than by pit bulls. If we were going to ban dogs based on the number of attacks you'd probably be starting with German Shepherds, who have been known to attack. 

But one of the problems with pit bulls is that they can be unpredictable. Every now and then you'll read a story of a pit bull attacking not a stranger but a family member (often a child) and the response of the parents will be that "the dog was always friendly and never aggressive." And I believe them. They do seem to have a bit of an unpredictable nature.

And I once had a German Shepherd. He was a big boy, and he was a wimp, but if you didn't know him he was intimidating. I've always given him credit (although I don't know for sure) for saving someone from being a victim of Paul Bernardo. I lived in Scarborough, and I was walking him late one night a long time ago, during the time of the Scarborough Rapist (ie, Bernardo) attacks. We were going through a park. The park had a bus stop beside it and wasn't incredibly well lit (Bernardo's MO - he would wait at a poorly lit bus stop for a potential victim to get off alone at night.) And a bus had gone by us up the street just a couple of minutes before we got to the park. I turned into the park with the dog and there was a guy who seemed to have a girl up against a fence and they clearly weren't happy with each other. "Lover's quarrel," I assumed, and I walked on. Got about halfway through the park and suddenly heard the sound of someone being hit hard. Turned around to see what was happening and I couldn't see them anymore. Apprehensively I turn back to check this out and I hear some struggling in behind some bushes and the clear sound of a woman giving off kind of a muffled scream. My heart was pounding. I called out "hey. Are you OK in there?" I heard a guy's voice call back, "Yeah. She's OK. Mind your own business." I hear more struggling. I call back in, "Hey. I've got a German Shepherd with me. I want to see that girl come out of there and I want her to tell me she's OK, or I'm letting him off his leash and sending him in there" - not knowing what the dog would do even if I had to follow through of course, because he WAS a big wimp. And right at that moment that big wimp of a dog must have sensed something was wrong, because he let out the meanest and loudest snarl and bark that I'd ever heard from him. Almost scared me. Whoever the guy was (my mind says I saved someone from Bernardo; who knows) he rocketed out of those bushes so fast. The girl came out too and just ran in the other direction. I called out to her, "are you OK." But she just ran. I called the police. Told them what had happened. They basically said, "well, we'll file your report and if the girl reports something we'll call you," but I never heard anything. But let me tell you I loved that dog!

Long story. My point (back to the thread)? Once, walking through the same park, my big, intimidating looking German Shepherd was attacked by a pit bull. Came out of nowhere. I didn't see him coming until he had my guy by the neck. I guess my guy saw him coming and jumped a little bit out of the way so fortunately the pit bull only really got skin and not his throat, but he would not let go. My dog was struggling to get free, couldn't. The pit bull had his jaws locked. I was foolishly (I guess) trying to jump the pit bull and I guess the only reason I didn't get attacked was because the pit bull had set his sights on my dog. I don't think we had a chance - except the pit bull's owner (I guess) comes casually along, carrying a huge, thick chain and starts beating the pit bull with it and finally got him to let go, and then just said "sorry about that" and walked away with the dog.

Fortunately my dog wasn't badly injured. There was a bit of blood from some cuts and puncture wounds around his neck where the pit bull had sunk his teeth in but nothing really bad. But I have to admit I've been terrified of pit bulls ever since, even though I know the old saying that it's the owners that are to blame and not the dogs.

There were a few pit bull attacks in ontario over the course of a year or so. That caused the government to leap into a law banning pit bulls. I believe they can't be bred or imported and must be muzzled.

Over reaction in my opinion. Bad dogs are a result of bad owners. People who train a dog to fight or attack. Unfortunately because they bite and hold on with a vengeance, they get a very bad rep.

Caesar the dog whisperer guy , refused to come to toronto at one point because his training pit bull, Daddy, wasn't allowed across the border

It's why people are afraid of dobermans ( very nice breed) and shepherds and Rottweilers. All trained as attack dogs at one point and now carry that scary image.

Most dog bites are from small dogs. Terriers, cocker spaniels...

Large dogs are Percy for the city. They need far less exercise ini general than all those little terriers.

A big lazy golden retriever, it's why so many people have them.

I have a bouvier. 65pounds. Take her for a walk int he morning and at night and she sleeps most of the day.

interesting, she is a working breed. Used for herding cattle on farms originally. So she likes to have a job. Currently her jobs are lying under the bird feeder to keep the squirrels away, and guarding the. Back yard from cats.

She takes the jobs seriously and when she comes in for "work" she is exhausted

But all dogs need training. I run into so many small dogs that bark aggressively, charge, jump up, nip. And owners aren't concerned because the dog is little. Not to little to bite a child

Thanks for your responses. My phobia's not so strong that I won't walk past a dog park or anything. I actually like that park. I avoid pit bulls when I see them in enough time though. Again, it was that story in the paper- the teen whose face was badly bitten. It was a bad attack on a stranger just walking by. And my friend's wee dog being almost killed, that make me nervous about them. I heard their jaws lock when they bite. Before that I didn't really know the breed to see it, and probably pet a few of them! :) an old coworker brought her dog to work: pit, ridgeback and golden lab cross. Awesome dog.

A bit of a warning for people around any dogs:   Ask the owner's permission before approaching or petting, and even then be cautious.  Watch not only the tail but the ears and the ridge of hair between the shoulder blades.   But as a rule, don't touch without asking. 

Unless it's wagging it's tail, and smiling brushing right up to me- I always ask "is it friendly?" before petting a dog. :) another coworker brought her dog to work (a different workplace- dogs were allowed by consensus, as long as they behaved. So there were 3 dogs who were there part time! The other place I mentioned had a few assistance dogs) and it was really quiet, just sat at her feet under her desk, quietly followed her to the staff room. It was a smallish terrier and chihuahua mix I think. But he was scared of me because of my cane and my shoes were loud on the hard floor, and when I tried to pet him he growled and barked at me. So, my coworker told me I had to wait for her dog to get used to me- which he did, eventually.

Even if the dog appears friendly, I always ask the owner before I pet a dog. I do so for a number of reasons - including, but not limited to, personal safety. For all I know, the owner may not have time to stop on that day, for example.

I am of the opinion that it is not the breed that is at fault, but the treatment that the dog receives.  Not only that, but MANY dogs are often mistaken for pit bull terriers and are then painted with the same negative brush.  These (and especially mixes of these) are often assumed to be pit bulls:

• Alpha Blue Blood Bulldog
• Rottweiler
• Catahoula Bulldog
• Boerboel
• Chesapeake Bay Retriever
• Rhodesian Ridgeback
• Presa Canario
• Patterdale Terrier
• Olde English Bulldogge
• Hungarian Vizsla
• Fila Brasiliero
• Cane Corso
• Ca De Bou
• Bull Mastiff
• Boxer
• Black Mouth Cur
• The Argentine Dog or Dogos Argentino
• American Bulldog
• Alapaha Blueblood Bulldog
• The Alaunt
• The Bull Terrier
• American Staffordshire Terrier
• Staffordshire Bull Terrier

Anybody remember the song, Pit Bulls of Vancouver on LG73? Set to the tune of Warewolves of London? It's not on Youtube. I wonder why? I guess it became distasteful after certain attacks, and not so funny any more. Still, good song. I have it on tape.

I find it interesting that people have no problem realizing that there is a genetic base for scyzophrenia and other psychosis in humans, but refuse to believe that psychosis can possibly be genetic in dogs.
 

Pit bulls were bred specifically for insanity. Normal dogs won't do what a pit bull was bred for, to fight to the death in the dog pits. A normal dog will fight until it's losing, then run, but that's not a money maker, so piut bulls were bred to fight until they died. Insane, yes, but that's what we created themn for; insanity and the need to kill anything they put their sights on.

So now that we've specifically bred these dogs to be insane, and we see them doing insane thinbgs like kiliing their owners chiildren again and again, we seem to be unable to admit that there's just something wrong with this, our beloved creation.

/facepalm

Despite these limitations and concerns, the data
indicate that Rottweilers and pit bull-type dogs
accounted for 67% of human DBRF in the United States
between 1997 and 1998. It is extremely unlikely that
they accounted for anywhere near 60% of dogs in the
United States during that same period and, thus, there
appears to be a breed-specific problem with fatalities.

http://www.cdc.gov/homeandrecreationalsafety/images/dogbreeds-a.pdf

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Among the deadliest and most vicious of all dog breeds with killer instincts, originally bred to fight and kill other dogs, Pit Bulls are now widely popular as companion dogs, especially in American cities. Their popularly is strange given their homicidal history and aggressive in-bred traits, but that is seemingly part of the appeal. With its powerful jaws, thick skull and muscular legs the American Pit Bull Terrier (and related breeds) makes short work of children and adults it attacks often maiming them for life. The very name "pit bull" is used in our language to signify a singularly tenacious state of being.

This breed is variously cited as being responsible for nearly a third of all fatal dog attacks in the United States, in part due to its tenacity in a fight. Pit bulls cause one-third of dog-bite related fatalities while only make up less than 2% of the dog population. Because of the deaths, maulings and serious injuries inflicted by Pit Bulls, many countries worldwide ban these dogs altogether or require licenses for ownership of them. In response to many high profile maulings and fatal attacks by Pit Bulls, many US cities and towns have specifically targeted the breed with legislation restricting ownership and increasing penalties on owners for attacks made by their Pit Bulls. Pit Bulls are often responsible for attacking and killing other dog breeds as well as cats and small pets. Police officers often need to shoot and kill this breed in order to subdue it after attacks on humans or other animals in US cities. In recent years several owners of these dogs in the United States have been criminally prosecuted in homicide cases. Sadly, many of the owners of these deadly dogs do not possess insurance and the maimed victims go uncompensated. Apologists for these vicious dogs abound online, but facts are facts. These dogs have little or no business being pets in anyone's household they are simply too aggressive and dangerous.

http://www.dog-bite-law-center.com/pgs/stats.html

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But do pit bulls deserve their reputation as vicious "attack" dogs? An overwhelming amount of evidence suggests they do.

A five-year review of dog-bite injuries from the Children's Hospital of Philadelphia, published in 2009 in the journal Plastic and Reconstructive Surgery, found that almost 51 percent of the attacks were from pit bulls, almost 9 percent were from Rottweilers and 6 percent were from mixes of those two breeds....
And a 2011 study from the Annals of Surgery revealed that "attacks by pit bulls are associated with higher morbidity rates, higher hospital charges and a higher risk of death than are attacks by other breeds of dogs."

http://www.livescience.com/27145-are-pit-bulls-dangerous.html

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2012 dog bite fatalities ::

Information gathered by DogsBite.org is verifiable1 through Internet archive services. Our Fatality Citations section documents each source used in our dog bite-related fatality research.
2012 statistics

•     38 U.S. fatal dog attacks occurred in 2012.2 Despite being regulated in Military Housing areas and over 600 U.S. cities,3 pit bulls contributed to 61% (23) of these deaths. Pit bulls make up less than 5% of the total U.S. dog population.4
•     Together, pit bulls (23) and rottweilers (3), the second most lethal dog breed, accounted for 68% of all fatal attacks in 2012. In the 8-year period from 2005 to 2012, this combination accounted for 73% (183) of the total recorded deaths (251).
•     The breakdown between pit bulls and rottweilers is substantial over this 8-year period. From 2005 to 2012, pit bulls killed 151 Americans, about one citizen every 19 days, versus rottweilers, which killed 32, about one citizen every 91 days.
•     Annual data from 2012 shows that 50% (19) of the victims were adults, 21-years and older, and the other half were children, ages 8-years and younger. Of the total children killed by dogs in 2012, 79% (15) were ages 2-years and younger.
•     Annual data also shows that males were more often victims, 61% (23), than females. The majority of male victims, 61% (14), were ages 8-years and younger. Of the total female victims, only 33% (5) fell into this same age group.
•     In 2012, roughly one-third, 32% (12), of all dog bite fatality victims were either visiting or living temporarily with the dog's owner when the fatal attack occurred. Children 8-years and younger accounted for 75% (9) of these deaths.
•     34% (13) of all fatalities in 2012 involved more than one dog; 13% (5) involved breeding on the dog owner's property either actively or in the recent past, and 5% (2) involved tethered dogs, down from 6% in 2011, 9% in 2010 and 19% in 2009.
•     In 2012, dogs referred to as a "rescue" accounted for at least 13% (5) attacks that resulted in death. Children suffered the brunt of these attacks with 3 deaths. The adults afflicted, 2 adult females, were killed by their own pack of "rescued" dogs.5
•     Dog ownership information for 2012 shows that family dogs comprised 58% (22) of all fatal occurrences; 82% (31) of all incidents occurred on the dog owner's property and 18% (7) resulted in criminal charges, down from 29% in 2011.6
•     California and North Carolina led fatalities in 2012, each with 4 deaths. 75% of the California deaths occurred in San Diego County. Pit bull-type dogs accounted for 88% (7) of the 8 deaths. New Mexico, Ohio and Texas followed, each with 3 deaths.

  

http://www.dogsbite.org/dog-bite-statistics-fatalities-2012.php

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Let's face it people, when 3% of the dog population does 60% of the killing, that's not sane, or safe.  I don't care how cute they are. Pit bulls do not approach my children... period.
 

I don't like pit bulls. I think of them as land-sharks. If a pit bull is around, I don't want to be there.

Witch, I don't think we would say that all people of an ethnic group have a genetic disease though.  Certain groups definitely do have higher risk factors for different diseases.

I honestly didn't know those stats about pit bulls though.  Like I said, just being bigger does make them a greater risk.  I do trust the info I've heard about other breeds being more likely to bite, they just don't have the strength to do the same damage.

Yeah, that's the thing... Some other breeds may bite more often but when a pit bull bites it really bites. Its jaws lock right on and won't let go.

Jae… you seem to know very little about sharks and shark behaviour. 

Interesting story Stephen - I think Shepherds are pretty cool but definately intimidating.  A German Shepherd lives up the street and one day I saw her running past my house, broken lease/tether trailing behind her, headed for a busy road.  I went outside watched her and thought "she might get killed on the road".  I took I deep breath and called for her.  She turned around and came bounding toward me and I thought "wonder how this will turn out?' but she was very friendly and I grabbed the leash and held on.  Seconds later her owner pulled up in his car grabbed her, put her in the car without saying a word.  I think he was afraid I would report him because I know for a fact many in the neighborhood are very afraid of her and she is a beautiful dog. 

Yet most of the dog attacks I hear about are Pit Bulls bar none.  Not only do they attack people but other dogs and I think they should be banned - they are simply too dangerous.

On behalf of dog owner and dog lovers everywhere Meredith I thank you for calling that dog and holding on to its leash, and keeping it safe until the owner claimed it.  Shame on him for not thanking you.  He was probably caught up in the moment.  I've had puppies dash out my door or escape from my reach and trot off, me (sometimes in my nightclothes) running after them.  I've wished that some kind hearted person, who either shooed them away or patted them on the head and then moved on, would have held their collar until I could reach them.  it took courage for you to call a big dog and maybe save its life - thank you.

So here is my biggest problem with those bite statistics...

How many people report bites from small dogs? My guess is few because the "wounds" are fairly minor. That means those statistics aren't a real demonstration of dogs that bite.

Some of my favourite dogs are those people have mentioned as being more viscious (rotties, dobs, german shepards). I worked at a dog groomers for over 5 years and the only dogs that ever attempted to bite me were lasa apso, chiwawas and sitzu.

This is quite a story that just happened here Wednesday...72 yr old man killed a pit bull, who had his pug by the neck, in the park.

http://www.cbc.ca/m/touch/news/story/1.2434300