I had to wear a uniform when I was in school, and never really liked it. Now, it seems pretty elitist to me. It''s like saying that your children are more privileged than anyone elses.

I think it''s an unecessary expense. Why would you want to suppress children''s individuality? Let them wear what they want to wear!

i had to go to highschool with uniforms... in the end it was sort of nice to be able to not have to think about what to wear in the morning... but i did love dress down fridays!!

My children wear uniforms to school and I love it! It takes away any "i''m bettter than you because I have cool clothes" thing and makes everyone equal. It also makes getting ready for school in the morning VERY easy. No debates on what to wear. Especially great for girls who obsess over such things.

Uniforms are a bit like going to Club Med. Let me explain - although it has been a while since I''ve been there, the way it used to work was that you didn''t take any jewellery of value with you because there were no safes. That way, no one had the big diamond or fabulous necklace to stand out. And people use their first names only. A friend of mine who used to work there actually taugh Graham Edge ( the Moddy Blues) wife how to water ski and she had only introduced herself as "sue". Talk about anonimity. Uniforms do the same thing and I don''t think thats a bad thing today when children are struggling to keep up with their friends. It is one less thing to get stressed about.

I think uniforms are a great idea ... I agree that it takes away from the competition of who has the better clothes/ brand names! And with Dress Down Fridays, it allows everyone to still express their "individuality". It is also very good for safety ... with all of the students in the same uniform it is easy to see when there is someone there that shouldn't be.

School uniforms were instituted at our public elementary school, with the approval of the Parent Council, five years ago with an eye to reducing the increasing problems of students wearing gang colours and inviting violence and gun trouble to the school. The wearing of uniforms also makes it much easier to spot an intruder on the school property as all students are in uniform and all staff and approved visitors wear ID badges.

That being said, there are problems. Teachers must 'police' uniform wearing in addition to a million other things and the office staff and administration must call home and deal with parents on a daily basis when their child does not show up in uniform, in addition to the million other tasks they have. Students in the school area are not all socio-ecomically in a position to purchase more than one uniform for each of the several children in their family and are not always in a position to keep that uniform clean on a daily basis. Needless to say sometimes the uniforms look (and smell) worse than if they were able to choose different clothes to wear each day.

This year we have switched to a uniform "look" (the same colour clothes but without the logo) and it is certainly improving the issue of hygiene.

Students get many opportunities throughout the year to wear traditional cultural clothing, casual clothing, sports clothing, special occasion clothing (e.g. at the Grade 6, 7 and 8 dances). I can see why some people feel that on a daily basis the child's individuality is being supressed but one must remember that school is only 7 hours of the day, they can choose what they wear the other 17 hours. During school hours and on school property children have a right to be SAFE. School uniforms are one way to achieve this.

Yes .........it eliminates fashion peer pressure.........One type of peer pressure eliminated is better than none.

I go to a school with uniforms and I have to say it's alot more of a hassle than it's worth. You have to make sure you have the right socks, clean pants, iron shirts. It's alot eaiser to pull on a pair of pants and a shirt. Plus, they are so uncomfortable! I also, I think that it's really a futile effort for school to enforce. The concept of freedom is very important to a teenager. It's why they rebel, it's a fact of life, and kids are going to challenge the uniform in whatever way they can. I see it everday and it. It's hard to enforce a uniform policy on such a big population and teachers are getting tired of enforcing it.

As for individuality, it's not so much the lack of self expression that they complain about, it's the simple fact they they don't get to choose what they wear in the morning. There are days I've woken upand wanted to put on my normal, comfy clothes but can't

This is such a common opinion question! It's been debated over and over. Perhaps, it needs to be a separate decision for each community.

I think school uniforms is a great idea. While it might be expensive, it's no less so than all those "fashions" kids and youth MUST have to be cool. For those who don't want to participate in the "fashions" of the day and for those who cannot aford too, it makes sense to have uniforms - less "fashion" competition about feeling bad about the self in relation to others.

My observation is that girls that wear uniforms often wear LESS clothes to school than girls that do not wear uniforms to school. Kilts are shorter than necessarly, they wear knee socks in the winter and dress shoes on icy days. If schools want to use uniforms to cut back on gang colours etc they need to ensure that the uniforms are FUNCTIONAL.....I see some uniforms that are functional and girls can still opt to wear pants or a kilt and then I hear of other school where the girls are only allowed to wear kilts and the gents have to wear a tie and blazer everyday.

School uniforms are a great idea as long as the cost it kept down. It would help kids focus more on education than what everyone else is wearing. Ends up being a lot cheaper for parents in the long run as they do not have to buy so many expensive fashion items for their children.

Uniforms? Bad. Conforming is not healthy. It surpresses and can ultimately explode. And when I say conforming, I'm not just talking about uniforms. Once the time comes, I want to teach my kids that they shouldn't be following another's role because they are "cool". Be creative, but don't be deragatory. There is too much media that shouts the "need" for some random article. We've got to stop telling our future to be competetive, to come out on top above everyone else, to make the most money, to have the greatest achievements. How many movies about teenagers have you seen that has cliques in them? I'm glad to say that the high school that I went to didn't have cliques. There were groups of friends, sure, but its not like interacting with another group was taboo. Nobody cared. Anyways, growing up is all about finding out who you are, and its a hell of a lot harder when somebody is telling you to dress one particular way.

I had to wear a uniform to school because I studied in England where absolutely every school has uniforms. I didn't think anything of it.

I must say that I agree that wearing your own clothes to school does not really express individuality. It is purely material and more related to the ego than the person inside. When we had an own clothes day at school the cool kids would always wear the latest fashions when I would be there in a plain t-shirt and jeans. As I grew up though I found myself striving to keep up with the latest fashions so that on the next own clothes day I would feel like I fitted in more and maybe outside of school I was more "popular". Looking back at that I wish I didn't strive to wear the coolest clothes every time I got the chance to at school because at that point just by wearing a plain tshirt and jeans I was being more individual than they were. I am referring to a physical individuality by the way, not an individual personality.

When it comes to being properly individual you don't need any physical appearance, you just need to be you. Being you is much more individual than trying to fit in with everyone else.

I would have chosen to be expelled before wearing a uniform. Not that some of your points aren't good ones, but I am NOT a fan of conformity, and haven't been since 6th grade.

I think that school uniforms would be good. I think that wearing whatever forces people to wear the fashion, the in-clothes. If you do not wear "in clothes" people start to think weird things of you, and not treat you as well.

My sons wear a uniform here in Montreal where they attend a public high school. It is a polo shirt with the school crest ($15) or a white dress shirt, and a pair of black pants ($20). They have a sweatshirt or hoodie as well for $20. The girls can wear a black kilt or the pants. Lots of ways to make it personal without feeling overly conformist. No arguements about what to wear in the morning. No social snobbery in a school where 1/3 of the kids are on social assistance. No distractions. For the teachers, it has helped them to figure out who belongs and who doesn't- easier to keep the drug dealers out of the halls. Even in primary school it was worth it. Saved us a bundle of money on clothes. And the school recycles the clothes at the end of the year to give to families on social assistance. It is worth the peace of mind it brings to the school, and to the parents pocketbook..

I can understand the rationale for uniforms being less peer pressure to buy expensive brands, etc. However, for the life of me, I cannot understand why girls' uniforms have to look like "schoolgirl fetish-wear" in this day and age. What's wrong with saying jeans and a white shirt or t-shirt, no logos, and maybe a solid-coloured sweater for cold weather? It seems a little odd for schools to be taking all sorts of measures to make sure they never publish kids' photos or names online, etc, yet make them dress up like a pedophile's fantasy and walk back and forth to school.

When people propose these schemes, they forget a fundamental truth. Students are NOT all the same. Communities are NOT all the same. Parents are NOT all ths same. In schemes like this, one size does not fit all.

School uniforms will work - if there is a general willingness in the school to have them. If there isn't, forget it.

That's true of a great many things in educatin and in human relations in general. We are not all the same.

And the big mistake in almost all areas of education is to forget that.

graeme

When I was much younger, I would have disagreed. Now, I think uniforms are a great idea. Uniforms help to reduce social difference and lessen the pressure on young people in a consumer society in which individuals express themselves primarily through consumption. Individual expressionism has become a religion of its own and I think uniforms would help to build in children a sense of belonging to a greater whole.

I've been following this post.
Cost - for middle and upper income families uniforms undoubtedly save money. But for families that out of necessity dress their kids out of hand-me-downs (maybe from cousins in another town), Goodwill and Frenchies, buying uniforms could be an unnecesary expense.
Comfort and individuality - there needs to be some choice and variety in uniforms (choices between skirts, slacks, shirts, T's, sweaters.
Education - My daughter tells me that many young people joining the work force have no idea how to dress for the office.
That makes me think a dress code that permits choice but still gives guidelines might be the best decision for schools. Let parents and children wear what they want as long as it meets acceptable standards - on bare midrifs, no really short shorts or skirts, no underwear showing (no matter how pretty your first lacy bra is), and no pajamas.
While we are at it - how about schools assisting parents of younger children by reminding them that they need hats, mittens, and snowpants to play in the school yard at recess and noonhour when its below freezing and there's snow on the ground. My 10 year old granddaughter insists that no one else wears them and that she will look like a geek. but maybe that's a long way from school uniforms.

Can't hurt.

However, the uniforms should not be overly expensive, either that or help should be given to those who cannot afford them.

In my experience uniforms save money. Schools have a resale system of used ones usually and we always passed them around. My son only needed a pair of jeans and a pair of sweats as other clothes. Uniform pants doubled as "dress up we' re going out clothes".

My daughter was the same. She only needed a fraction of the clothes she has now to wear after school. My son's school was pretty liberal;, grey pants, some sort of button up shirt but not plaid, a tie of some sort and black shoes. They also had a "school dress" of grey pants, white shirt, school tie adn blazer but that wasn't the daily wear.

A few schools around here have gone the route of assorted appropriate clothes. The kids seem to all wear the same colour of sweats, T's, button up shirts, seaters and it certainly evens the playing field regarding the price of the newest trendy jean

I have gone to a private school for my entire life. I don't mind wearing uniforms. It makes it a lot easier to get dressed in the morning. I don't think people should be worrying as much about us not be able to express our creativity, because we find many other ways...believe it or not, there are still fashion fads at my private school. Such as lululemon headbands, for example.

I grew up here in Canada, in the public school system, so...no uniforms. My sweetie is from Ireland and was in uniforms his whole life.

When I expressed my initial reaction: that it would stifle a person's individuality, he was genuinly puzzled. In Ireland (at least when he was young), you had a range of choices for uniforms. You could go with a blazer or a sweater or alternate throughout the week. You got to choose how you wore your tie, etc. In fact it was apparently quite a game with kids as to how strangely or wildly you could tie your tie without getting a talking to! LOL!! Girls wore their hair and makeup in ways that expressed themselves, etc. Each person's parents had to buy their uniforms each year just as our families go out and buy "school clothes". And as he pointed out, you only wore your uniform at school! After school when you hung out with your friends you wore whatever you want, obviously!

He really liked the relief from "fashion pressure" and doesn't understand how kids here deal with all that stuff.

:)
AT

If i had been forced to wear a uniform, I would have led a revolution and taken over the school.

If you think uniforms help with peer pressure you're nuts. The only way to survive peer pressure is to conquer it, not try and eliminate aspects of it because it always remains. Better to learn to tough it out and beat it, than have the peer pressue of fashion channaled elsewhere.

When I lived in Hull, Quebec many moons ago, the only english speaking school was Hull High. We had to wear uniforms - it was humter green pleated skirt with an attached full back and V front. White shirts were worn with it, as were dark green knee socks. I think I wore the same uniform for the three years I was there. By the time I left and came back to Ontario, I was wearing a mini-uniform!!
By then my Dad had started living with a lady who was to become my step-mom. She insisted that all my dresses and skirts were mid-knee. Everyone else was wearing minis to school, so I'd hike up all those hemlines anyway I could...belts, rolling waistbands. Then I'd have to remember to let them out before I got home!!
So...long story short, I think that uniforms are great. There is a Catholic school just up the road and the students, both male and female, wear beige slacks and white shirts. They do look really nice. It does save on the wardrobe and the kids can go nuts after school with all their other clothes.

It's a waste of money and a violation of the childrens' human rights.

The PARENTS need to make sure their kids don't dress inappropriatley.

I am in favour of school uniforms. It decreases line between the rich and the poor. Going to school is about getting an education not about making a fashion statement. Freedom of dress can be practiced without prohibitation during students' off hours. There is appropriate dress to be a member of a musical group, appropriate dress for cadets, and appropriate dress for work. There should also be approprite dress for school.

As a parent I think uniforms might solve several dressing issues in the morning. I don't think I feel strongly one way or another. I see the benefits of a uniform, I also see the benefits of letting kids be kids.

I do agree with Serena that clothes are used in forming cliques and defining the haves and have nots and perhaps uniforms might help address that, though I think there will always be cliques among teens.

My only thought would be, if you are to have a uniform, please enforce the dress code. A local (seperate) high school here has a uniform and in my opinion the girls look like streetwalkers. The skirts are hiked up soooo high that it leaves little to the imagination, they wear assorted colour knee socks, large clunky jewelry and crazy shoes, including black heels and so on. At that point I think the young girls in the public school wearing jeans, sneakers and tees look much tidier and presentable. Sure, the kids have on the skirt, grey flannels or whatever but they have modified the uniform or wear ill fitting uniforms that simply look sloppy. I have always commented that if a school has a uniform, one would think it would apply to shoes, knee socks, lengths of shirts, tightness of shirts and so on. If the girls wear above knee skirts I would think tights make more sense than knee socks and so on. If the boys wear pants I would hope that I don't have to view their boxers underneath.

My issue with uniforms is that they assume one-size fits all and/or that all children come in one body shape. My public elementary school is contemplating mandatory uniforms. It may only be a specific shirt with a solid colour (tbd) dress pant or it may be specific pants. Two of my children are heavier around the stomach and bottom area. Buying pants for them is an absolute nightmare. If my choices were restricted even further, it would become very difficult...c

Specialmom:

That was a very good point about the dress code where the young girls were walking around like street walkers. This goes against what uniforms are supposed to accomplish.

Cjms: I had not thought about ill fitting clothing an styles that are wrong for some types of bodies. I do agree that children SHOULD wear jeans. Little girls can't run around and play at recess in dresses.

Maybe the uniform could be a few styles of jeans sold by the school and school t-shirts.

I don't have a lot to add from when this thread started, but I'm still not convinced. The biggest problem, by leaps and bounds, with our education system, in my mind, is the enforcement of conformity. Conformity is bad for society. Conformity is bad for minds. Conformity is bad for the development of adolescent personality. Teenagers in particular crave independence on their own terms. The more we restrict their choices, the more they will look for increasingly radical ways to break free.

It's like the classic lesson of drinking. If you teach your kid about alocohol in a relatively controlled way, it loses it's appeal. (Wasn't it James who said his kids had accused him of spoiling booze for them? :)) Or, in specialmom's clothing example, the kids who can wear what they want don't consider clothing a big deal. The kids forced into uniforms see subverting them as a challenge.

I was serious up above when I first posted. I would have chosen to be expelled before conforming to a uniform.

What I would add, is that a uniform is just about the only thing that would convince me to pull my child from the public school system.

If she wanted to, of course :)

uniforms don't take away from individuality in that kids still find ways to make themselves stand out. it's the non-uniform clothes that are used as status symbol if anything. i'd say if you want to get rid of the competition and one-upmanship, uniform is the way to go.

also, even schools that have uniforms have casual dress day every two weeks or so, so kids get to wear their regular clothes.

"i'd say if you want to get rid of the competition and one-upmanship, uniform is the way to go. "

Not sure if that was aimed at me or not. I don't care about competition and one-upmanship. Or, rather, I acknowledge that those behaviours are a part of human nature, and imporrible to avoid, so I'm not prepared to put any effort into avoidance. Coping, yes. Avoidance, no. It's conformity that I am opposed to.

We LOVE the concept of uniforms!

We have saved a TON of money- she can wear the same thing day after day all year. It seems expensive at the outset but the quality means you can throw it in the laundry or spot wash it easily and no ironing needed and it lasts! So much so she's managed to wear some things across multiple years.

There are no battles in the morning, no indecision, no suddenly outgrown clothes. Its VERY easy (and even our daughter agrees).

Everyone looks the same so the whole fashion thing is moot, and the designer thing is moot, and the judging kids by what they can afford is moot.

They have no limit on individuality- this issue is ocmpletely overrated. Their individuality comes out in their personalities, their talents, the work they create, and their passions (just not perhaps in what they purchased, which tends to usually be all the same anyway when given a choice).

Nabi hit the nail on the head.

There was an article in Ad Busters one time that made a great point. If kids wear uniforms, everything involved in clothes at school for them becomes a fight for individuality. They try to break the rules by adding to or taking away from the unifroms. They roll up the sleves, or undo some buttons, or do something, anything, to stand out. That is a very good way to be. If they don't have uniforms everything becomes about fitting in. They do everything they can to have the popular type of clothes, to be like everyone else, the whole time thinking that consumer choice = individuality. That is a very bad thing to be learning. Give them something to rebel against.

As a secondary school student I feel that wearing a uniform supresses my individuality. Some days I feel like wearing track-pants, and I do not want to wear dress pants and shirt everyday, I don't think its fair for someone to tell me what to wear.

kas asked: "Should school uniforms be mandatory in elementary and secondary schools?"

EZ Answer: I think we should all use the brown avatar here at WonderCafe.

That brown avatar expresses my individuality perfectly.

graeme

EZed , are you leading another strike action?

crazyheart wrote: "I am surprised though, that I did not see the response from Revs and Ministers of God in this posting."

EZ Answer: That was quite the uniform, wasn't it.

Interesting the power of clothing. Putting it on. Taking it off. Realizing nakedness. Realizing status.

School uniforms should be mandatory, so long as the woman is over 20, and the skirts are very, very short.

At least that's what the documentary I was watching proposes

Although the two sides to the issue or both agreeable, I find it funny that students who are expected to mature and "grow up" are also expected to be told what to wear. This seems rather odd to me, because wouldn't it make more sense for students to realize what is reasonable to wear and what is not? However, there are some students who don't understand the boundries...but that's what dress codes are for. So no, I don't think that uniforms should be mandatory. Perhaps schools should just enforce their dress codes a little more.

i think a "dress code" is hard to do. It is so subjective. you can' t possibly cover everything and particularily teens will challenge it.

My daughter is in her 3rd year of non uniform school. No question she likes choosing her own clothes. No question it costs me much more money .

what I like about a uniform is that there is no clothes competiton. however the uniform needs to have room for all. I have seen many high schools near by that have a certain skirt/ pants/ sweatpants and a golf shirt/ sweatshirt/ white shirt option. Kids are not dressed identically but they are definately part of the same school body.

One school in particular uses it as a means of identifying who is not a student on the property.

Given a choice I would choose a uniform.

My sons' school was voted the most improved school in the province. Establishing the uniform was a major step in that transformation. It eliminated a lot of discipline problems, which enabled more of a focus on teaching instead of crowd control.

I never had to wear a uniform myself and I'm SO glad I didn't. I like being able to wear what I want when I want. I'm somewhat picky about what I like to wear and I don't look good in everything (like everyone) so if I had been forced to wear something I didn't like (which btw is every form of uniform pants and skirts i've ever seen) I'd probably have spent more time worrying about how nasty I though I looked than on my work.
I also don't get how you can say it's less expensive. Do you not have to buy both a school uniform and "normal" clothes for your kids meaning you're paying for two sets of clothes for each day rather then one?

Mainly it's cheaper Bethany because you don't need alot of uniform stuff and the other clothes are jeans, sweats and maybe one nicer outfit. Much cheaper than keeping up with all the trends and in clothes

The average uniform purchase consists of three shirts and two pairs of pants which can last for the whole year, and sometimes even two years. The dress code usually specified the kind of shoe, and sometimes would even ban the high end shoes.

This means on school nights you would change into other clothes, which can be worn for more than one day since you didn't have them on that long. After having three kids through high school I counted it up and in the long run you buy fewer clothes.

There are so many other accessories and options it is easy to assert your individuality, while being part of the group. It reduces competition, snobbery, incidents of bullying and taxing. Girls liked the uniforms because they downplayed sexuality- they found they were treated as equal students. They dressed the way they wanted with their friends, so their individuality wasn't diminished. The only thing that was diminished was a lot of the BS which everyone hates about school anyway.