If it is as easy to use and continues with the in depth discussions as it has been,I intent to keep following it.
Financially, I cant really afford more than what I would spend for a book.s

so in that if i were to appear at an in convention i would be asked how i got so in

 

 

Absolutely. I kinda have to. If I don't make the move, the only atheists many of you will be exposed to will be your own children.

 

Some of us do not have children, so we need you .

 Besides I think of it as not mving but just adapting a new domain name and looseing the sponsership of GCo of the United Church.

 

 

I'd be interested.

I probably will be going to the new place. I don't really know how active I'll be though.

Let's start a pool for how long it will take Jae to register on the new site.

 

In unrelated news, I think I just stumbled upon a funding model for the site.

 

I would very much like to stay on....

I have learned so much and developed such wonderful relationships.

Regards

Rita

I'll be there.

I plan to stay on ... good friendships and lots of learning have occured for me too, and I hope that will continue. 

I'm in

 

. Jae , you have left many times.

 

We need advertising somewhere on FaceBook. All our people are there and some how we have to get them back when the new site opens.

 

CH, it's pretty easy to share a link on FB.  At the very least though, we should wait until we know the address.  It's probably better to wait until the site is running.  If I couldn't join a forum upon my first visit, I don't know how likely I would be to return.

I am in and hope to post more, currently I follow what is being posted.

Probably not. 

I will miss those that don't come over.  I've learned valuable things from everyone here.  And I hope to continue learning on the new site.

I plan to tag along.

Well, from what. I understand "wondercafe" will not continue . . . There might be something in it's place . . . But it won't be wondercafe or wondercafe as we have known it.

I can't answer whether I will come along . . . I wouldn't be able to answer until I knew what I was coming along to.

No, I don't think so. It's bittersweet. It's been an interesting learning experience. For everything there is a season and I think after June it'll be time to let go.

I'll be with you - at least I will be giving it a good try.  Somehow I can't imagine my life without WonderCafe (Facebook is good for Scrabble and a few other things but it sure doesn't compare to the WonderCafe for discussion or for getting to know people. 

 

definitely no.

I'm open.......

I'm in.

 

I plan to stay and try the new site.  For me what makes WC special is the range of people sitting there and sharing on so many topics.  No reason to suppose that will change if enough of us move over. 

 

Why so definite, Redhead? 

Interested in staying...

 

 

This is basically how I feel. I honestly don't know. If WC magically stayed in place I will stay. I doubt that will happen though. (WC staying in place that is)

Needless to say, current plan is to do so. I do want to see something replace it. That said, I'm busy on another board where I have taken on a limited mod role so may not be around as much either here or on whatever comes after.

 

Mendalla

 

Hello...
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I enjoy the company and the conversation. I will welcome and attend the renovated cafe.
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George
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Hi All,

 

Count me undecided.

 

The primary reason I came to WonderCafe.ca was that I wanted all who came to see that The United Church of Canada is not theologically monolithic.  I also wanted to demonstrate that there is, on the more conservative side of the theological spectrum individuals who are well read, thoughtful, compassionate and generally pleasant.
 

I came with specific purposes to represent the Church I love and shatter some stereotypes about Christians like myself.

 

I'm paid to serve a congregation.

 

Participation here was me simply taking pleasure to serve my denomination in some form of outreach.  It wasn't about notches on belts or seats in pews (though I would not be opposed to that happening) nor was it about winning anything.

 

It was about being present and showing that Christianity in general and the United Church in particular do not force anyone to become dense or hostile to the world around them.

 

All my time spent here has been in the context of that purpose and that mission.

 

When WonderCafe.ca finally closes that purpose and that mission context disappears.

 

Whatever the successor site to this one turns out to be one thing will be clear.  It will not be a ministry of my Church and as my time here was as much a gift to my Church as it was my pleasure I reach a pulling point.

 

Which is not to say that I do not care for any of you.  I love this place and all of you have been a part of it.  Maybe not the most pleasant parts depending upon the poster and the day.  My worldview has room for the not so pleasant and even the down-right ugly.

 

I am also wrestling with the fact that being UCCan clergy on a UCCan site invests me with a stronger sense of identity (not to be confused with authority) than does being UCCan clergy on a non UCCan site.

 

And all this wondering comes in the context of a grieving process.  I look forward to coming here.  I enjoy being here.  I have been honoured to serve here.  I have been blessed to be challenged here.

 

A handful of members here in WonderCafe.ca migrated from another forum which was dying out.  United Online, a private venture by a colleague in ministry failed just as WonderCafe.ca came into being.  So, when that ship went down I leaped to this vessel.

 

WonderCafe.ca is not the same as United Online.  Not even close.  I suspect as hard as we try the successor site will not be the same as WonderCafe.ca.  Not even close.

 

It might be better or it might not.  There are a lot of variables that we simply do not control.

 

Before United Online was laid to rest it became evident that our webmaster and admin needed help.  I made a pitch for him to delegate authority and he bought that pitch.  Things went downhill from there.  I suspect part of that was not the changes themselves but the processes involved in those changes.

 

Without seeking any new responsibility I was tapped to carry some of the weight of leadership.  It was an honour to be called to such service and I accepted.  In moving from poster to admin I felt far more reluctant to post views.  To agree with posts and disagree with others.  I moved from being a player in the game to one of its referees.

 

I did not abuse my priviledge.  I did notice that my engagement and thus my interest was changing.

 

I trust chansen, pinga and medalla.  I would trust them as admins.  I know that there are folk here who would not.  That is a can of worms that any group can easily deal with.  My concern is that if they continued as admins we would be in danger of losing the opinions that they represent.

 

Early on in the history of WonderCafe.ca I got a wondermail from Aaron.  Long-weekend was coming up and the Admins wanted to spend time with family.  Would I mind playing lifeguard in the WonderCafe.ca pool till they came back to work.

 

I wasn't given any administrative powers just elevated to the position of watch-dog.  If anything went seriously off the rails I was to bark loud enough for them to hear and come back and fix things.

 

It was an honour to be asked.  It was the most nerve-wracking weekend of my participation.  So I appreciate the burden that chansen, pinga and mendalla have taken up on our behalf while being simultaneously mindful that people, even good people, often bite the hands that feed them.

 

So part of my hesitation to jump to that ship is the realization that at some point these three who have worked so hard for us to have a safe place to leap to are going to be taken to task for all that effort.

 

Remember the proverb, "No good deed goes unpunished."

 

Apart from that the Church I love and have been devoted serving is in the midst of some type of seizure and there is a sense that decisions are being made which will have a dramatic impact upon the denomination.  I have been reading the documents and listening to the discussion and I am convinced that the documents and the discussions are framed in a fair bit of delerium.

 

Can I change that?

 

I'd never know if I didn't try.

 

If I didn't try it would be a matter of personal shame that haunted me like so many other moments.

 

So there is a lot for me to consider.

 

I apologize to those among you who feel that this is me blowing you off.  Changes were coming to the Church even if WonderCafe.ca didn't close down and I would be throwing a fair bit of time and energy into those conversations anyway.

 

Hence my inability to say one way or another if I will leap that way.

 

Yesterday I did take the leap and register at United Future.  It sucks.  It has tremendous problems in just about every aspect of its implementation.  So I would not recommend that site to anyone.

 

I apologize for my hesitancy. 

 

I wanted to be clear about what I am thinking so that nobody interpretted my lack of enthusiasm for a lack of trust in those working to make a successor site a reality.

 

Grace and peace to you.

John

There's a piece of me that relates to what you're saying revjohn. Part of the reason that I like Wondercafe so much is that it has allowed some tough questions to be addressed about religion, philosophy and God. Many of those questions are not often addressed in church and if they are, time doesn't permit for anyone to question what one may have heard. This has been a great place to hash things out. It was one of the primary reasons I came to this site.

 

The fact that we have many ministers here has been a blessing and I'm sure it has facilitated many a persons spiritual growth to take out into the world. I would be curious to see if that would still be a primary objective with the new site. Is it even possible without a church affiliation? Does it just become another generic site that doesn't put an emphasis on God(higher power) or spiritual growth, as a primary purpose for it's existence? I would have to say, in some ways, I imagine not and in that regard I might feel a little let down by the premise of it all. As I said above, I'm open and will take a wait and see attitude.

 

 

When i first signed on to Wondercafe.ca, it was with the thought in my head that if the United Church was starting something as innovated as a message board, and  as a long time member of the church, it was my obligation to help make it work

I have been on it just about every day, posting, reading, questioning,   putting in my two cents, smiling, laughing, and gathering friends who I will probably never see.

 

7 years and I can truthfully say that my obligation was fullfilled to the best of my ability.

 

In return, I was given many things. Pastoral Care   during  a unhealthy time. I also made many friends on this board.

 

I did my best as a United Church person to support Wondercafe.ca and now I think that it is time for the church to support me. I get tired of writing this when there is never a satisfactor response. Wrote to the Moderaor - heard nothing back. Probably went to the trash can. 7 years ago I didn't even know what the trash can was so I have learned something. lol

 

There are too many to thank - not all UCCAN

 

This was my reason also for entering into and supporting wondercafe.ca . . . I wanted to take part and possibly be a part of helping it to succeed.

 

And therein lies my personal struggle as to whether I would be a part of a newly formed group.  I would only be able to answer that question once I knew what the group was going to be.

 

While my initial reason for becoming a member was to support an innovation of my church, I stayed because of the community and the relationships that were formed. 

 

I really believe The UCC is missing the boat on this one . . . once wondercafe is gone (which I firmly believe was cutting edge and something extremely unique) it will not return.  Sad . . . but life holds loss and sadness.  I already feel like the grieving process has begun.

 

I feel that a new site, because of the nature of it, would need not only to have user guidelines, but a statement of values (not beliefs, but values) that everyone should be aware of. Without that I'm apprehensive. For me, it's like (for comparison's sake) going to a new company with a different mission and values. Even if the tasks are the same the climate will be different.That's my number one consideration in any 'vocational' venture, just like I don't accept jobs based on pay and benefits, but values (and how a person spends their time and energy is 'vocation'). If I feel a value conflict I will get disheartened and frustrated pretty fast- that no amount of pep talks and platitudes will sort out. I feel no value conflict with the overall mission and values of the church even if I ever griped about details. But the place, the foundation of the place, has to support core values that I identify with or I'll be swimming up stream from the get-go.

If I'm listening correctly, it seems that, while WC was supposed to be this great place that showed how the UCCan was open and inviting and cutting edge and engaging, individual experiences in United Church churches did not bear that out.

 

I sort of think of that like a company advertising their product, and the customer experience not meeting what was promised by the advertising.

 

I don't know what, exactly, a new WC will feel like. Technically, it will blow the current WC, and especially United Future, out of the water. Will it feel the same? Will it have a connection to the United Church?

 

I'd suggest people talk it up. If United Church people come, it will be connected to the United Church.

 

I'd like to see people promote it at United Future. Drive those conversations to the new site. We can make a United Future subforum for those conversations. If we make a better site for conversation, maybe people will use it. If United Church types want to hear what people are saying, let them come as well.

 

Great stuff. Then along the same lines we should also have an FEBCC Convention forum, a UU Convention forum, some kind of atheist convention forum, etc.

We won' t get a lot of traffic from the United FuturE forum too few use it now. howver if we start converstaions around the UCC future, and encourage alternative solutions not being discussed elesewhere, that will naturally attact people. i and others would also be able to be promoted it on various forums that would attract people. i am weak in tech, but I have skills in promoting/marketing things for no costs, ad low costs.
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The key will be how the product is presented. iF it is easy to use than it should be no problem to actually become bigger than WC has been. howevr that means more than just technical solutions, but other types of solutions to problems like SB. if we allow trolls to make it unpleasant for most people, or difficult to enage in converstaions and relationships, people will visit but not return.

Solutions can be developed to discourage trolling as oppose to a censorship model that also censor objectionable posts by non trolls. current WC gives too much leaway to trolling and cracks down way t o hard on Non trolls. But that is a converstaions we need to have after we pick a name and develope a management Model.

[quote=chansen]

If I'm listening correctly, it seems that, while WC was supposed to be this great place that showed how the UCCan was open and inviting and cutting edge and engaging, individual experiences in United Church churches did not bear that out.

 

I sort of think of that like a company advertising their product, and the customer experience not meeting what was promised by the advertising.

 

<>

It was more like getting a pile of money after someone died with instructions to use it in innovative ways. Thus the goal was actually to spend the money wth out regards to other considerations.

Like others I joined to offer support to a UCC initative. 

I was also interested and curious.

I found something much more than I had imagined.  I found a community of people with whom I could opening discuss thoughts, ideas, feelings - talk about books I had read, or heard about and might like to read.   A community I could laugh and joke with.  A community I could share my fears with.  A community who would support me through my darkest hours.  And a community who could teach me a lot about other people - some of whom I seldom meet in real life.

I will miss it.  I'm hoping for something that will fill the hole the WC will leave in my life.

 

Geofee,I am glad you will be moving forward.I somewhat can t understand the problem with it not being a UCC site- it will be, if we have enough UCC influence on it.
I so much appreciated Revjohn and other minister s knowledge and wisdom, which has convinced me (for a while) that the UCC is different.
Yes, WC2 will be different, it will be what we make of it. Loosing all the ministers would be a great loss and I hope you will. Change your mind. After all, you kind of represent the UCC everywhere , so if you are a minister in the grocery store, why not purposefully do some outreach on WC2?

I'm prepared to wait and see how the new WC works, I have already declared my intention to sign on there, .  In theory it wouldn't have to be drastically different from what is currently running.  A location - a name - several boards with a variety of titles - a mixed group of people who have hopes, dreams, brains to think with, lively minds that aren't too shy to ask questions - and don't forget the empathetic hearts for those facing specific struggles in their 'meat' lives!  Also some volunteers to help keep the discussion fair and civil.  It isn't my, or our, responsibility to ensure it is strictly a UC group.  

 

Had the UC members been interested in doing the things listed in my first paragraph they could have participated.  The overwhelming majority didn't.   As a person who has struggled mightily to understand what the churches are REALLY about for much of my life, I would have been delighted to have had participants here from the various 'levels' of the UC. (Ministers, people from the pews, people on committees of various types,  those working at the Presbytery level, people from 'Head Office', the Moderator etc).  What an opportunity it offered them to converse with a wide range of citizens from many walks of life and many theological viewpoints.  I can honestly say though  that I'm not surprised that few availed themselves of this unprecedented learning opportunity.  However, I expect they will still spend time (and maybe money) talking about Evangelism, reaching out, attracting new members, finding new visions, moving into the future and all the other things that WC contains in one location. 

 

I'm prepared to trust the 'Committee of Three' to do the best they can for us.  Thanks to them for all the time they have spent trying to make a simple transition.  (((((Pinga, Chansen, Mendalla)))))

i  think what we are seeing Kay, is the apathy in the congregations - not just on Sunday mornings, but anything that is a new initiative. i think Wondercafe is one such new thing that the most of the  congregations are blase about.

 They, not all, feel it is another thing that is being put upon them from national church.

 

These last couple of weeks are depressing to me. An exciting thing 7 years ago is ending,imo, on an unhappy note. Tis a pity. Tis sad.

 

Thank you Pinga, Chansen and Mandalla  for stepping forward.

I don't understand churches at all!  So many of them seem to be social clubs that exist to constantly raise money to maintain their building.

This doesn't seem to be what the 'main office' is trying to promote, so I feel a disconnect. Much like the disconnect betrween the 'main office' and WC.  

 I have heard complaints about expectations from the national church too.  Maybe I'll start a new thread in Church Life.

I know that many people would agree with you.  Main office is in denial and instead of working with what they have, they are in denial and work with an ideal.  As a result congregations ignore "head office, and only need it to train, support  and discipline   clergy. 

 

All the stuff about outreach, all the stuff about Palestine/Israel are just people doing busy work.  I had hope the comprehensive review would trigger some much needed reform, but it seems the church is not ready for that yet, and most members are not even aware that it exists.

 

The problems are multifold, but as individuals we are free to do what we need to, and in the case of WC it is just a matter of steeping up and see if we can work together to created a renovated and welcoming wondercafe 2.

 

Have no fear, what will happen will happen, but if we give into despair it will be more than the old WC that dies, but a part of us.  

Technology has come a long way in reducing he overhead cost of being a moderator and in isolating the roles of admin / moderator.  I recognize the load, revjohn, as i have also done that role here.  I also remember united online being one of the people that spent tme there.

ps..this thread really took off, I am impressed.  

I think my mind's made up. It's impossible for me to address going forward concerns with out looking like the bad guy at this point. Hopefully, even if you don't respond to me you'll consider the things I've posted about ethics and values going forward. All the best to you all.

Kimmio, 

 

It sounds to me like you have been hurt deeply by some of the discussion on this site. I can make a guess re: which thread has led to this but will not mention it here. 

 

I am not seeing you as a bad guy at all. Just so you know . . . p3

I do not see you coming off as the bad guy. Howevr I am ubale to undersatnd why. (this is typical for me, I have a hard time with understanding in and out as I always feel outside, even when I am not.