Ann Perry's picture

Ann Perry

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Consultation on Simplifying Church Processes

The deadline for submitting comments on simplifying The United Church of Canada’s processes is October 1. The goal of this consultation is to make the church’s procedures and practices less complex and free people to live out their faith more effectively. As part of this work, The Manual will be shortened and made more user-friendly to reflect these simplified processes. For more information about the consultation, see www.united-church.ca/communications/news/general/100715b.

Ann Perry, Program Coordinator, Office of the Moderator and General Secretary

 

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RevJamesMurray's picture

RevJamesMurray

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Here's the responses I sent in:

*  What church processes create barriers and barricades for you or your congregation, presbytery, or Conference in getting on with ministry?
1. The current Pastoral Relations process on average takes a year to complete. This cripples a congregation. Key people spend the year writing JNACs and interviewing, instead of leading the life of the congregation while they are without leadership.  The process needs to be streamlined so the process can be completed in less than 90 days, including all Presbytery approvals.  A JNAC should be doable in a day. Some congregations do benefit from a break, but most suffer. So when a change in pastoral relations is announced, by the time that minister leaves 90 days later, it should be possible for a call/appointment for the new minister has already been finalized.

2. If you sit on a presbytery committee, you automatically end up on the conference committee. If you chair a conference committee, you get put on a national committee. The duplication of the courts is killing ministers in management hell. It is very easy to have church courts eat up a day a week. It is time to revisit getting rid of Conference. Its job was to ordain and inspire. Nothing more.  At M&O conference the biggest decision they have made for the last ten years running is to continue holding the annual meeting of conference.

3. Discernment committees take a year, during which time the student is not encouraged to attend seminary. The degree takes three years, and there is a one year internship. That's five years out of their lives. Given that most candidates are second career people, many cannot afford to lose  five years in order to make a career transition. Shorten the Discernment process to three months, and encourage them going to seminary asap. Bring back summer internships, as many congregations cannot afford a year long internship. M&O Conference and Montreal Presbytery actually set up funds to help congregations to bear the cost of offering internship sites.
 
    * How could our processes be changed to free people to live out their faith and offer their gifts and talents more effectively in congregations?
The goal is for people to become missional Christians who live their faith in the world, not for them to become wannabe preachers in the congregation, or policy wonks who sit on committees. Discipleship needs to be the educational focus, not institutional survival. Without mission, there is no need for an institution. Even with mission, an institution is only at best an option, only if it has as its goal facilitating mission.

    * What processes need to be revised to support and enable ministry personnel at all stages of their ministries?
Life Long Learning has become prohibitively expensive. Books alone can wipe out a pastor's budget. Travel to one learning event a year can wipe it out as well. More funding is still needed. Tax write-offs for what ministers spend out of pocket needs to be helped with. The minister having to pay for internet in the office is still far too commonplace. Make internet service a mandatory part of the call, just as telephone is now.

    * What processes need to be revised to promote the healthy functioning of congregations?
Have the Mission Theme be 'Helping congregations find their sense of mission & purpose'. Teach them how to think missionally for themselves, instead of telling them how to buy into the national church's boycott of the year.

Come up with a UCC practice of evangelism so we cal learn how to share our faith with others which speaks of Jesus in an invitational way.

    * How could we recast our processes to facilitate and encourage, rather than prescribe and constrict, ministries?
Seed money for different expressions of ministry-  coffee house, house churches, anything but maintaining bricks & mortar.

Bring in some visionaries to inspire- we need more than just our own politically-correct list of people to help think through how to do church today. Brian McLaren, Richard Rohr, Bruce Epperly, Tripp Fuller,  Tony Jones, Dwight Friesen, Dan Kimball, Philip Clayton,  Shane Claiborne, Jonathon Wilson Hartgrove, Phyllis Tickle, Nadia Bolz-Weber.

DKS's picture

DKS

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RevJamesMurray wrote:

Here's the responses I sent in:

*  What church processes create barriers and barricades for you or your congregation, presbytery, or Conference in getting on with ministry?
1. The current Pastoral Relations process on average takes a year to complete. This cripples a congregation. Key people spend the year writing JNACs and interviewing, instead of leading the life of the congregation while they are without leadership.  The process needs to be streamlined so the process can be completed in less than 90 days, including all Presbytery approvals.

 

It can and it can't. One of the huge speed-ups we found in my conference was when we went o paid staff responsible for processing calls and appointments. All of a sudden things are efficient. The challenge occurs when we are using volunteers for our HR processes. It took a year for a neighbouring presbytery to process a 451 TR application for transfer. It took us about a week. 

 

Another huge hold up is our police record check process, a level 2 PRC takes a minimum of six weeks in Toronto and usually not less than three. Because we can no longer to third party checks (it was an RCMP decision) , we have to wait on the process (heaven forbid a minister might get a PRC, knowing they might be moving!)

 

 

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2. If you sit on a presbytery committee, you automatically end up on the conference committee. If you chair a conference committee, you get put on a national committee. The duplication of the courts is killing ministers in management hell. It is very easy to have church courts eat up a day a week. It is time to revisit getting rid of Conference. Its job was to ordain and inspire. Nothing more.  At M&O conference the biggest decision they have made for the last ten years running is to continue holding the annual meeting of conference.

 

Actually. conference does a very good job of supervising professional staff, allowing the presbytery to focus on what it needs to do. We got rid of all conference committees save two (Interview Board and Settlement) and no one is seconded to a next level of the church (save me as I also sit on the Transfer Committee).  It does remove a lot of the chaff from the church. 

 

RevJamesMurray's picture

RevJamesMurray

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 I'm glad to hear change is possible.

I know the recent GC decision which disallows email polls has been a bother for many courts of the church. Recently Kingston Presbytery asked all its members to join Facebook and become Friends with the Presbytery presence there. They are using Facebook's chatroom technology for online discussions, which does meet UCC regs.

I notice Skype is now offering free video conference calling. I wonder who will be the first to make use of it?

DKS's picture

DKS

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RevJamesMurray wrote:

 I'm glad to hear change is possible.

I know the recent GC decision which disallows email polls has been a bother for many courts of the church. Recently Kingston Presbytery asked all its members to join Facebook and become Friends with the Presbytery presence there. They are using Facebook's chatroom technology for online discussions, which does meet UCC regs.

 

YIKES! I would NEVER recommend Facebook for ANY church business because of the serious questions re. security. Just ask the Privacy Commissioner. http://www.priv.gc.ca/cf-dc/2009/2009_008_0716_e.cfm 

I would categorically refuse to use any social networking site for any official church discusson, ever. I have some serious concerns over our use of Ning in that respect.

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I notice Skype is now offering free video conference calling. I wonder who will be the first to make use of it?

 

I was on a task group out of Rob Oliphant's office which explored some of that. Huge bandwidth consumption issues there, as well as it being a non-starter for dialup users, who still compose about 40% of our pastoral charges, at least in this conference. And the HSPA enabled internet access is a huge bandwidth and dollar consumer.

RichardBott's picture

RichardBott

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Hi, David -

Can I ask why you feel that way about using social networks for any church business, rather than solely that business that needs to be held in confidence (eg. Pastoral Relations / Oversight / Executive)?

 

I can think of a number of task groups / working groups / action committees / etc. that it wouldn't matter one iota if the entire world knew what was being talked about.

 

I'd be great if GCO would consider setting up a secure server that Presbyteries, Conferences, etc. could use to set up chat rooms that would allow us to have ongoing discussions, even of a relatively confidential nature.

 

Christ's peace.

martha's picture

martha

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Ning is an application/approval required site. 

This is why the vacancy list is there (although why it's a big secret is not known to me) and why we limit the membership to those actually involved in leadership, in some way, in the church.

For those that are interested, and that are in a leadership role in the United Church: http://churchleadership.united-church.ca/

Membership is over 1300, and more people join every day.  We try to keep it current and informative, and there are a number of specialized groups on this site (open And private groups) that can be set up anytime. 

The HR Unit at GCO is committed to reducing costs of meeting: travel, paper, and carbon-footprint related. This is a great tool for us.

 

DKS's picture

DKS

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RichardBott wrote:

Hi, David -

Can I ask why you feel that way about using social networks for any church business, rather than solely that business that needs to be held in confidence (eg. Pastoral Relations / Oversight / Executive)?

Privacy concerns, first and foremost. And I categorically refuse to use Facebook. They are all a collossal timewaster.

 

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can think of a number of task groups / working groups / action committees / etc. that it wouldn't matter one iota if the entire world knew what was being talked about.

 

Fine. I'm not often a member of such task groups.

 

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I'd be great if GCO would consider setting up a secure server that Presbyteries, Conferences, etc. could use to set up chat rooms that would allow us to have ongoing discussions, even of a relatively confidential nature.

 

Got the money? That's an issue we have been trying to address since 1987 or so. It boils down to money, pure and simple. And inequality of access.

 

Panentheism's picture

Panentheism

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 Martha suggests the leadership network - it is great but the vacancy list is not always up to date.

GordW's picture

GordW

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I would suggest it is as up to date as it ever was Pan.  I once asked why there was a difference between the list on the website and the downloadable one----the downloadable one is only updated monthly whereas the web oone is updated as info is inputted by Conference staff folks. 

Jim Kenney's picture

Jim Kenney

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RevJamesMurray, I commend your concise list. 

I tend to agree with your comment about Conference, though DKS has a helpful suggestion.  But an exception would be ANCC.  When a presbytery has only 4 congregations and one full-time minister, a larger body is essential.

 

At one time there was an expectation that part of the responsibility of the M & P committee was to annually update the needs assessment for a pastoral charge as part of the review of the ministry that needed to be done by the ministry personnel. However, often when this was done, it became a tool for getting rid of a minister.  Perhaps more could be done here in fine-tuning the process?

 

I fear that the emphasis on PRCs lowers the awareness of church leaders of the need to ensure the safety of vulnerable people by how the church does its various activities.

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