Saul now Paul - I think that they would all agree that on these questions do not have a yes / no answer.

Paul you missed my point - I actually am  a process/relational panentheist - which means I see God as working with the world as it is to lure it to where it could be.  I don't see two groups of sheeps and goats for when you read the actual passage you discover that everyone is surprised - the sheep find they are goats - the passage also goes on to say it takes getting down with the other to see them as they are - for in that time the only difference between goats and sheep was their tail - It is about justification and that God continually justifies and out of the beginning covenant all are included - it is to open our eyes to see that and get in harmony with it.

I am suggesting that given most people stop thinking theologically after sunday school, the default position is that sunday school theology.  Of course there are some supernaturalists, which I find an inadequate theology, but not many of them are in the UCC.

My further point, which you confirm, is many people focus on belief as propostions - and that those propositions are to be dogma - you must believe in them rather than understanding propostions as human constructions within which there are possible insights, and that propostions are evolving.   I am suggesting the question of foundationalism suggests an belief rather than a faith - that there are unchanging foundational beliefs rather than the foundation is faith which is a process.

I think Paul also missed my point.  They would most likely agree that these questions are too complicated to have a yes or no answer.  For most UCC clergy that I know it would be "Yes, but . . ."  or "No, but . . ."  followed by a well reasoned explanation.  In the UCC we read, study, think, debate, and then read some more. 

Well,Gord, how lively will your  discussion be? Do you have a SNP in your group?

Hi Gord,

An interesting set of conversations and intrusions here.  At first, I was going to suggest adding what it means to be a member (like what Willim Willimon started about 20 years ago.  As I skimmed through the discussion to the end of the first page, it struck me that I don't know what your purpose would be.  One concern I have developed about the United Church is its inclination to intellectualize things -- this can make for enjoyable and challenging debates, but it rarely serves well at engaging people.  Personally, I love intellectual discussion, but most people don't.  If your purpose is equipping members and potential members for discussing theological issues, your list and some of the suggestions above should be quite useful.  If your purpose is building their capacity to particpate as members in the life of the church, you may want to adjust your agenda to inviting them to offer their faith questions --using their list to set that part of your agenda-- and to make what it looks and feels like to fully participate as a member another part of your agenda.  A program developed in Saskatchewan Conference based on Willim Willimon's program includes mentors, charitable / outreach service, sitting in on board meetings, leadership in Sunday School and worship, and open-ended bible study where they are given a text and asked to determine what it means to them.

Good luck and God's grace to you as you continue your design of your program.

Shalom,

Jim K

HI GordW

We used Jesus 24x7, and I would recommend it as a good tool.  It has working papers, questions, lots of room for dialogue, and it will support the diversity.

My thought is that by using a resource, and allowing folks to have their own copy of their resource, it allows you to minister, rather than to create one.

of course, the resource is just a tool, but, honestly, it is a pretty good one.

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the other thing you might want to look at is the wonderful little red bok, I can't remember the title right now, which has a tongue in cheek way of looking at the UC -- ? is it a survival guide? gosh...sorry..can't remember. 

We gave it to folks who were new to the UC and they really enjoyed it.