Thanks Jae.  

In my world, plan for the worst, hope for the best,.

sounds like you'd be a good person to be with during a zombie apocalypse...

That would work for as long as there is wondermail, which won't be for much longer. 

I voted YES  for these people who will do a terrific job, no doubt about it.

Kimmio, in that case we would have to deal with sockpuppets in our current environment, and fake "created accounts" just to vote.  

We're good, not focussed on it.  Let's enjoy the vote.  If things look warped, we can look at the data. 

Thanks!

I am so lucky to have tools that help me do this at work.  Look for patterns, identify anomalies, big data stuff, seeking malware, folks intentionally being devious, and intentionally bypassing practice, and unintentionally bypassing.   Sadly, tehre is enough of such stuff to keep our team busy, legitimate findings.  

Plan for the worst, hope for the best, recognize that not all of us have the intent and honour of folks like you do, kimmio.  It is hard to believe that people would do stuff when you are highly ethical. 

Stardust, haven't seen you for a while!

You are making this way more complicated than it needs to be.  Seems a bit like throwing nails under tires to stymie the process.

If you don't agree with the people listed - vote NO!

If you do agree with the people listed - vote YES!

Or don't vote at all.

It doesn't get any easier than that.

It will be there, it just won't be called Wondermail anymore. Xenforo has a Conversations feature which does the same job. Allows you exchange messages among two or more members that are private to those included, much like Wondermail does here.

Mendalla

haha, yup, a vote about the vote.  

in my world, it is the security logging of the secuity logging that gets interesting. or who keeps the keys to the kingdom that holds the keys to the privileges that holds the keys to the day to day

Was that second comment sarcasm? A back handed compliment. I can't tell with you Pinga. I wish I could read your intent better but you freak me out sometimes to put it bluntly. You're intimidating to me because of the way you boast your power. You don't have to do that. I have to say it because it an elephant in the room for me everytime you communicate to me. I hope we can get past it.

which comment? boast what power?

I have no idea what you are referring to.  Kimmio, I cannot be responsible for your thoughts.

I can't tell if your comment is sincere to me or sarcasm because you don't trust me. Maybe because I still have trust issues with you and you like to point out your status. Really, you could hack us if you wanted. Not the same for most of us that don't have that level of knowledge or tools. I don't think you would but it does no good for us not to trust each other. It's a a feeling I get ever since three months ago that I can't shake- that you have it in for me no matter what- everything I say that's a critique leaves me open to much harsher treatment- and so it'll take some time and a different approach because I don't like feeling this way everytime
you exert your authority and your words just get my back up. It's a clash of egos and communication styles. I'm sure you're a decent human being.

i have no idea what you are referring to.  where did I say that I could hack you?

Where did I say that I didn't trust you.  Clearly, I can now see that you dont' trust me, but, where did I say that I dont' trust you?

Kimmio, the only thing that I can think about in your reference to my comment, was my suggestion in the last paragraph was that you were ethical with good intent.  That wan't sarcasm.  

you have your shit in a knot about me.  I get it.  You own your emotions.

Kimmio - I really don't understand why you make everything personal and try to fight with people. 

This thread is about a vote - if you don't care to or don't trust the vote, don't...and leave it at that.

I am supposed to be working on the site tonight.  I am going back to it. 

If anyone has a question or a query on the vote, my apologies for responding to the offtopic stuff

Pinga when you point out gleefully all the tools you have at your disposal to catch hackers and so on, what you're subliminally saying is, "you'd better know who's boss". You cast aspersions on the community and make someone like me who's taken a whallup from you enough that I'm still a little traumatized about how that went down- a little scared of you. Granted it was over a different matter but you terrify me. You are a powerful person. Not exactly heart warming stuff here. If I don't join the new WC2 it'll be because of that and because my shit's still in a knot about it and we never had a heart to heart so I still feel uneasy about you and you hurting me. You don't have to give a shit about how I feel. You're not obligated. There it is. I'm in the minority and I don't expect not to be because the shit that I'm in a knot about is mostly about you and I. Still. It's not worth for me to continue to feel that way so I hope there's an in road because it would be nice to feel at ease about going over there.

I think we should be grateful that pinga in particular, and chansen and mendalla have a technical background from their work and life experiences so that they can set up a site such as WC2 - this expertise allows them to spot hackers, spam, sockpuppets and resolve technical glitches.

As part of this community, I certainly don't see it as casting aspersion on any of us.  I see it as doing a careful and thorough job to protect the membership.

Take your personal fight and insecurities somewhere else Kimmio - this is not the place for it.

Gecko read above. I don't want to get in a fight. I'll leave it at that. Thanks.

Cousin, for what it may be worth, I didn't think Pinga was being sarcastic in her comment about your honor and high ethics. I actually thought it was great that she was complimenting you in such a way. I thought her words were sincere.

I voted again!

Ok, not really.

I niominate Rev. Stephen davis as treasurer-all in favour?

Tabitha, sounds like a plan to me.  Now, does it sound like one to Rev Stephen Davis?

He is too funny to be a good treasurer. He ' ll juggle the numbers all over the place making us millionaires in a heartbeat.

Though, that might be a good thing...

Well, I have a big problem to get over because when Pinga's mean to me I don't trust her not to be hurtful and when she's sincerely being kind I still don't trust her not to be hurtful because I'm still hurt I guess. She doesn't trust me either because she told me I was making innuendos. They weren't innuendos they were straight up opinionated, yet, I think valid, comments. I didn't beat around the bush I said how I felt. It was never really worked out between us person to person, the issue Pinga and I had and I guess I cannot pretend I don't still feel negative about it. It was the worst time I had in all my years here and now the big boss- oh joy, just my luck that it's the one person who's really hurt me here is in control- because we have never come to a decent understanding- that's how I'm feeling. And one other person who doesn't feel that we have any responsibility to understand each other's feelings about one another and do anything about it is on the ballot. Responsible person in many ways but not, I feel, as moderator at present. Not the right temperament for moderator. We need one or two of the softer spoken people to make moderator calls. Oh joy again- is how I'm feeling. I feel.... Vulnerable. Not that anyone cares. So for me it's not like everyone else who's simply feeling grateful that someone's doing the work. I tried to see it that way but it I feel there's more to it, actually. There's a personality conflict. It bugs me because I feel less at home here than I used to and I don't want to feel that way. In case anyone wonders what the heck's gotten into me, that's it. I don't think i ever really caused problems here before that but, I was generally pretty agreeable and tried to help others resolve conflicts but, yup, my shit's still in a knot, it really is. If Pinga would care to help me over that I'd be grateful. Pinga if you're interested you can wondermail me anytime and we can talk it over.

As for voting I voted no, once, because I had concerns, but I should've waited. George's point, I hadn't considered.

Kimmio, if you want to start a thread specifically about me, go for it. Put your accusations there. I am not interested in wondermail regarding your focus on me.

This is about your emotions.
I am sure others can assist you equally as well as I can.

Pinga you'd assist me if you cared about my emotions as I would if you told me you were feeling hurt- since you don't feel it necessary, it's ten times more difficult for me to get over my trust issues with you. I perceive that you have power to hurt me. Because you have, and you do have power. It's not unprecedented. And you never reached out after to smooth it over. You didn't give a shit and you're telling me you don't give a shit. So how can I trust you? That's what's going through my mind. That's who I am, how i think. So if you're not willing hold a private conversation on wondermail it's going right here- as I think it. And those who don't want to read it don't have to. I'm not starting a thread about it. That's an asinine way to handle personal conflict. My perceptions are not based on nothing. I'm not actually that nuts. They're based on your attitude and absence of caring. I have never had a bigger argument with anyone in my life I don't think- where all of a sudden not just you not just one person but about 5 others piled on. Never. Not even my family's that harsh- well maybe I guess, but besides them I've never had a fight like that- with acquaintances. Publically no less. Wonder cafe's a first and I'm still wounded, believe it or not. This place can be bloody harsh when there's a ring leader that emerges in heated debate. Not a nice place. You didn't have the sense to say sorry or to try to repair the damage. So screw it- either you are willing to discuss it because you care, or we're at an ongoing impass. That's how people who care resolve problems. They humble themselves and reach out because they don't want the the other person to remain hurt- they don't shut out and say, "not my problem you don't trust me and still feel hurt by me. Talk to someone else." that's like unsafe saying "you're going to hell, but don't try to talk to me about it, ask God...peace." mighty decent of ya. I do not want to start a "let's call out Pinga thread". That's immature vindictive crap, and this is between you and I and shouldn't be a spectacle but I can't exactly wondermail you- and besides, regretfully, haven't I called you out enough? I want to talk it over with you.

Hi Pinga,

Umm, yes.

That is exactly my point.

Since I belong to the slate I will be neither for it or against it.  Instead I will leave this bit of discernment to others.

If it were possible to vote for or against others  while not voting for or against myself at the same time then I could participate honestly and in line with personal principles.

It isn't.  So I won't

I'm not asking others to understand that particular quirk of my nature nor do I think that particular quirk something deficient which needs correction though I thank everyone for trying to be helpful in that regard.

At this point it is an exercise in personal integrity.  I never vote for myself yea or nay.

I am on the slate and I never vote for myself yea or nay so . . . . .I don't vote and stay true to myself..

Grace and peace to you.

John

Dcn. Jae,

Speaking as one such person who, at the outset of the idea of a successor site expressed hesitation, I reserve the right to change my mind.  It is something all mature people are capable of.

Or perhaps it is more fodder for your conspiracy engine.

And since I am speaking personally my response is less "I am ready and able" and more "willing to serve".  The vote, which has taken place is, I trust, community discernment that will test whether the willingness of those so selected are able in the eyes of the wider community.

Grace and peace to you.

John

There's no conspiracy. It's just that some people get along like ducks on water and others like oil on water and if no one cares about that it doesn't change. I don't think there's a conspiracy Rev John and maybe it needn't be looked at that way- Jae's been picked on and people have not been decent to him and that does not help him feel trust for others. It's not just about others trusting him although it's been turned into a one sided issue. It goes both ways. You accuse Jae of things, you choose your words too, and that will impact trust. That, I can actually relate to- it's more that it's natural for people to be biased and to not be biased takes thoughtful work and moderators willing to not be biased. Accusing him of being a conspiracy theorist is too strong so, watch your own words, please? I do wish we all got along and trusted each other better all around.

then trust people, Kimmio -- that requires work on your part and no one else's :3

I don't just automatically trust people who hurt me and never apologized and told me it's my problem that I don't trust them when they're very saying that makes me trust them less. They can't even aknowledge their hurtfulness and don't care to and can't even reach out- i want to have a private discussion and stop the sparring. It's really stupid to spar about this, even more stupid to start a special thread about my personal problems with Pinga- omg, that's over the top, but I can't just gloss over it. I want to discuss it but she doesn't want to. Why? That's just so cold. I get along with cold people like oil and water.

There you go.  Another 'but' to loving your neighbour as yourself.

Another reason for you not to trust someone.

The reason that lies within you.  Somewhere.  Your healing isn't going to be accomplished by trying to force it on someone else.  To make your ability to trust dependent on someone outside of yourself.  Because only you can heal.  Only you can trust.

You can ask them.  But not require them to heal you.

Only you can heal yourself.

Time for bed.

I do not agree with you. Maybe it's not me. Maybe it is her who needs to change something. The whole- only you can do it- it's pop psychobabble baloney. It's a sorry excuse for "I don't care how you feel" or in Christian terms "I'm not my brother's keeper. Interpersonal relations are a two way street. I can ask them but I don't have to trust them if they reject my request. As for loving my neighbour as myself....when someone tells me I hurt them and they're obviously still hurt I feel bad and say sorry or try to help (that's where sorry counts) and I try to understand why they're feeling hurt. If I was so dismissive after someone was as hurt as I was, I wouldn't love me for it. I would be bothered by my response and I would think I was a jerk. This can be a really cold hearted crowd. I've realized this over the last few months and I am kind of in denial about it I think. People love themselves and their group-think here more than others who are actually hurting - even if they've done the hurting. They don't care. I see this dynamic weekly here. It's the same with the church institution - many churchgoers don't think they need to change anything about themselves and can get quite peeved at the suggestion. I don't know why I take such an interest in this place. It has potential to be better. I guess that's why.

Wise words, Inanna

No they're not. They're placating psychobabble. I don't suppose you read my response. And Inanna- you go to bed. We live in the same city what the hell are you doing up giving me advice for and telling me to go to bed?

I admire  'that particular quirk' ~ and according to Robert's Rules 'you should abstain from voting whenever you have an interest in the outcome that directly affects you personally...'

I was never like this, i never got this upset, until Pinga and I had a huge argument. I never got over it because we never conversed personally and she never apologized. That is what I require. And so because that's missing, no one here rubs me the wrong way like she does. But I guess noone took that into consideration- the pinga factor that didn't exist before that argument? She never apologized, i lack trust still because she won't talk to me person to person- and I'm the bad guy for picking on pinga and not fixing my own stuff. She has issues too but won't take critique and won't even discuss them. Okay. Thanks. It may be partly me but it is not all up to me.

Rev Stephen would be an excellent addition to the Council :)

Kimmio, the reason that I said anyone could respond is that it is obvious regarding your focus on me. It is why you feel people gang up on you.

I was recommending a different thread so as not to take the vote one down this path.

It would also allow people to avoid the train wreck. It would also allow us to go back to it should you desire.

Do you wish me to go through your posts for the items you have accused me of in this thread? It may take me a while as i am travelling today .

It honestly would help if you didn't edit posts an hour after they were posted, and replied to. It makes it difficult.

Cousin, it's no secret that Pinga and I have also had difficulties relating to one another in the past. However, when she became one of the Admins of WC2, I asked myself whether or not I could keep going in a place where she was 1/3 of the leadership. To my own surprise, I was able to answer yes. I think, despite the problems she and I have had, that she does have some good leadership qualities which can be supported and encouraged in her by the others on the Council.

That being said, when I read your latest comments on this thread, I empathize with your feelings. Like you, I am a sensitive person who feels things very deeply. Not everyone is like that. Some prefer to base their words and actions more on logical thought. That can feel cold to us.
Rev John said (or perhaps implied - I forget) that I am a conspiracy theorist when it comes to this place. While I appreciate your supporting me, Cousin, I feel that John's comment is fair, given previous posts of mine on here. A lot of those posts were poor attempts at humor, and a reach for inclusion, which not many seem to have understood.

One thing I sincerely am is a fan of personality theories, especially MBTI. According to it, we who are Feelers often see Thinkers like Rev John and Pinga as being cold, and we wonder why some people seem to us more bent on justice then mercy.

Wondercafe-WC2 can be a great place to be. We all need to strive to understand and appreciate each other more and more.

Rich blessings

.
Hi kimmio

I don't think that having a good two way relationship is up to a single person. But I think the point being made to you is different
.
When someone feels something strongly, that they report affects them negatively, then the feelings can only be owned by that person.
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When you read about forgiveness you will read about how holding onto your anger only hurts you. The other person is oblivious to your hurt. They are not your emotions.
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In relationships, you decide how much you invest into them and how important they are.
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You have stated your feelings about Pinga. Unfortunately they are yours to own and to manage.
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If you distrust her, enough to believe she could be of some danger to yourself emotionally then back away.
.
The other option is to remind yourself that this is a virtual community. Many people are deeply invested in it and many people have developed friendships. Perhaps in a quaint way a sort of pen pal relationship But that is not required and is certainly not the norm.
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At the basic level, this is a forum for enjoyment. Perhaps some learning, perhaps some enlightenment or annoyance. Some people, like Rita and SG have presented , to me, positions I hadn't thought of before.

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But really, it is just a forum.

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If you feel unhappy, and it doesn't satisfy you or give you what you want then back away.

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You comment that Pinga didn't reach out to solve your issues with you. But it is very possible to forgive people or move on even when those people don't reach out.

You say above that you need Pinga to apologize.

I think what people are suggesting is that you don't need that. You just need to realize you got pissed off, hurt, and that you don't like that particular person. That is ok. No one expects everyone to like each other.

Uh, I edited for clarity of thought and grammar not meaning. No I do not want to go through the points your way as you have suggested. I would like to have a human to human not nasty just expressing feelings and concerns privately via wondermail. And that's it.

Kimmio - what she is saying is that she is qualified and competent to do her job.  

I can also vouche for her trustworthiness.  I have met Pinga in person (once when she passed through my city; another time when I was visiting her province and I made a point to meet as many Wonder people as possible).  I do not hesitate to trust her.

Kimmio, you wish to accuse me publicly. Yet you wish to go privately to discuss.

If you accuse me publicly it will be dealt with publicly.