see the SAY WHAT thread also in Church life!

 This is what... the fifth or sixth time this has happened? 1997 in DivCom, 1999 in DivCom, and probably 2 or 3 times in the last decade... Check out this thread

http://www.wondercafe.ca/discussion/church-life/say-what

Read Pinga's rant there. 

Best advice from that thread:

 Hi there! Thanks for mentioning the Facebook group. Hope to see you and as many people as possible there to start offering a laundry list of proposals, etc. 

Mike 

And after we were asked to support, and voted to support this positon, at a  Council Meeting.

Grrrr

Short sighted.  We need youth for the church to exist beyond us grey hairs.

IT

Russ

We grey hairs need to realize that we care more about buildings than Youth ministries and countless others.

The best way to judge someone's priorities is to see what they do rather than listen to what they say; we express our cares through our behaviour, not our intentions. As a denomination we would rather keep buildings alive...barely, rather than sell them and invest in right here, right now ministries.

It's this simple: Sell a handful of buildings and we could have a budget that could really make a difference. I know it's more complicated than that, but I cant get around the fact that we as a group put ghosts, buildings, and nostalgia ahead of people, life, and hope.

When I imagine the sense of enterprise, faith, and courage our forebears had in the early 20s, I get the sense that they would be very disappointed in us. How many Presbyterian and Methodist properties were liquidated for the sake of the Gospel? Those buildings were just as dear as ours are to some today. But they did it. And we're here because they did.  We don't honour them by puttting buildings ahead of the Gospel. In fact, we insult their wisdom and extinguish their dreams. 

One of the reasons we don't serve as many youth (among others) as other denominations do is that we don't deserve to. 

OTM

Ouch.  But probably very true.

Our particular church refuses to install a video projector in the sanctuary.  Minor point, BUT, the youth don't think the same way as us older folks do.  Visual would work wonders to keep them engaged.

IT

Russ

 #$$@^ IE9

Good for them. Video projectors are no cure-all and do not necessarily put butts in pews. There are solid architectural and liturgical reasons for not using them 

That's not true, in my experience. Many conferences and presbyteries have minimum standards for congregations. We continue to close and amalgamate in our presbytery and conference. Closing a church is also not a simple process. Please don't minimize the complexity involved. 

There are also other considerations involved. What if a church is architecturally or historically significant? Legally designated? There are many beautiful church buildings which are part of our community patrimony. Sorry you can't appreciate that. 

Please. Do read some church history, especially of that time. The whole church union movement was full of closures, but it was rationalization, not ministry. And there were some horror stories, which I won't bore you with. 

Get angry if you want, but I resent your implication of the current church. Perhaps you should read Reg Bibby's work on young people and faith in Canada

[/quote]

DKS

True, but, when you are trying to show pictures of the last youth trip to ElSalvador, and you can't see who is who because of all the light coming through the windows and the poor portable projector.

Or, discussing the $2M rebulid of the CE Hall and you can't read the numbers, it matters.

Or when the youth MInister is doing the children's story, wouldn't it be nice to be able to see the pictures too?

May not put butts in pews, and we have chairs as our Sanctuary is mutli-purpose, but it would make the experience nicer and more meaningful for all.

And we discussed the dancing bon homme behind the Minister and decided that there are limits to video.

IT

Russ

I have done this and likely will again but istm that this activity is probably a copyright infringement, depending on what picture.  If they are scanned out of a children's book then oops

GordW

I know, and probably yes, but wouldn't it be "nice" for the rest of us to share.

Copyright. 

Have to have it but........

The old, you can have 1,000 copies of VU but can't project the words unless you buy the $400/year permission, which we have.

IT

Russ

The first thing I'd recommend you ditch is the name "YAYA".

Is this the right venue for that presentation? Or the right technology? Would you be better off, instead of spending money on video projectors, using large 50"+ LCD displays for a slide presentation? 

Again, id this the right venue for the presentation? 

So the children's story is reading a book? Copyright aside, what's wrong with this picture? 

Same metaphor. Butts in chairs. But what about darkening the room? Blinds? Shutters? 

That's clearly a copyright violation. Just ask Macleans magazine. 

 Deleted because my post had nothing to do with the topic. Sorry, Gaiagrrl for hijacking your thread :-)

 The Rolling Stones were the ones who advised all of us that we should "Get Yer YAYA's Out" ... but I don't think this is what they had in mind.  UCC!  Get with the program!

Too bad. It was a very relevant and helpful post.

I would be happy to post it elsewhere, if there waw a more relevant place to do so. I am seldom on Wonder Cafe, but I try to obrserve proper "netiquette" wherver I am.

I just started a thread on projection in  Church Life....

 Sweet! If and when I get the kids to bed, work out, and get lunches ready for tomorrow, I'll chime in. It's an interesting conversation. Hopefully David will join us.