My brothers are suffering more than we are.  My brother has done construction work, logging, and gas pipeline.  He is definitley in a slump.

My other brother's work shut down and locked them out. (Bigfoot Industries, they make campers and other RV's) He can't pay mortgage, his lady and him split up and are selling the house. His life sounds like a country western song right now.

My husband and I are so used to flux in our income that we never bothered getting into debt to buy 'toys' or a newish vehicle.  Basically everything we have we own. So I would say our humble lifestyle is serving us well right now. We don't have high paying jobs (although we both work) and live within our means.

Sux seeing our RESP drop in value though. Oh well we have a good ten years before our girls will need it.

I don't even look at my mutual fund statements.  I have a good ten years before I can use them and I hope they're still worth something then.

I agree 100% with trishcuit about the wisdom in living within your means.  It makes dealing with economic uncertainty easier to weather, since you don't have outstanding debt payments hanging over your head. 

I'm even entertaining buying a house again -- maybe this time next year -- anticipating both lower interest rates and house prices.

i feel for anyone just starting out that has just purchased a house..and watching the pricing of houses drop..at the same time as they face a jobloss...that is a double-whammy that would be hard to recover from

i recognize how lucky we are..but, also the choices we have made that helped to put us there...including learning tolive within our means..making choices re cars / holidays, etc.

i just also sense that at this time of year, there are those who are really hurting, or hurting for the first time..unexpectedly.

people whose debt...previously manageable is not...or people who regularly got bonuses at this tiem of year, and are hearing of them disappear....

it will be a blue christmas for many.

I have a mother and 2 kids sleeping in my living room. They escaped an abusive situation and are waiting for housing.  My bedroom is my refuge.

While on disability I took 2 courses in management techniques (six sigma, lean). My company refused to compensate me for the tuition (6K). The union pres. shook his head when I said they will when they use the skills. A week back to work he named me to a committe to lead the staff in change - I was an instructor in the army. I am personally pushing a program called Quick Response Manufacturing. It has union endorsement and is gaining support with lower mgt. levels. I will get a raise of $2/hr on the committee. Even if I am wrong I will have gained huge amounts of respect.

My motivation? - the chances I could end up in a wheelchair are high enough to force me to prepare for the possibility. My personal plan is 6 mo. old and I'm almost there. Tough times are coming, but my industry will be relatively unaffected.

"Hope for the best; plan for the worst" - old army adage.

good for you, sljudds.

That is the kind of thinking that makes a difference.

 Every time I try to utlize "hope for the best, plan for the worst" my husband says "WHY are you such a pessimist?" I am not. I am a realist and he is an idealist.  Common sense ain't so common it seems.

My financial plan has, so far, insulated me from the effects of this down turn.  Wanna know my secret?  I picked crappy investments that were losing money already, so I'm not really seeing anything new.

 Do I see a silver lining to those clouds in your photo?

Except for a car payment and a snow blower last year, my husband and I have been debt free for a few years now.  We bought our house over thirty years ago and it is long since paid for.  We live on OAS and CPP which haven't been affected, yet.  So we are doing ok.

My daughter doesn't talk about it much, but I think her husband's small forestry operation is struggling, they have a mortgage (because they bought a run down house in a good neighbourhood and renovated, the house value probably hasn't dropped).  They have two children.  At present my daughter's job seems secure.

On the global scene - my son is working in Korea.  Last summer he changed jobs and anticipated a good salary.  However the drop in Korean money on the world market has been difficult.  He is paid in Korean funds, but his credit cards and student loan have to be paid in Canadian money.  I'm worried.  But I don't see the job market in Canada opening up for him to come home to.

I haven't been impacted - in fact I have just been offered a full time position!  However my partner, who works directly with US manufacturers has been feeling their pain for sometime and it is creeping into the Canadian companies that he deals with.  As for our investments, they have been sitting basicaly neutral for a while now because of the constant market fluctuations over the past three years.

My cousin who indirectly drives transport for Toyota called last week to say that for the first time in 9 years the annual Christmas shut down has been lengthened and future shifts shortened.  He is relatively secure due to seniority but there will be layoffs in his firm (as an aside Pinga, this is in your area).

I fear for my community as a whole though - we are tourist based and are always hurt by economic slowdowns.  It will be hard because I constantly hear the delusional comments that Muskoka is the land of the rich and somehow the people that come here have a never ending supply of funds.  Having lived through the hard times of the early 80's and early 90's I know this to be the fantasy that it is and know that those who have bought into this fairy tale will be the hardest hit.

LB

Some days are diamonds. Some days are stones

Sometimes the hard times won't leave me alone

Sometimes the cold wind blows a chill in my soul

Some days are diamonds, some days are stone.    

Neil Diamond

Last night I went to a retirement party for a wonderful, ethical guy, who was let go.

At the party, I sat beside a young couple with their two month old son.  She was temporary person on mat leave. He was given notice that he would be done his job on December 30th.

The anxiety and frustration permeated the room....though, people were glad that he is ok...and celebrated his wonderful career and the assistance he gave many.

All non-IT contractors are gone on Dec 30th in our facilities in sw.ontario.  In addition, a number of full-time shop-floor employees were told yesterday that they are going to be on "permananent layoff" in two weeks.  This has been going on for a while in various areas.however..this is mfg being hit now. 

The good news is that OpenText posted 200 jobs in the area.

My wife and I are living on our pensions, however we have our house and car paid for and no other debts. The present down turn in the economy will have little immediate effect on us. We do have much of our investments in stocks, but I am able to generate some income from dividends, trading,  and selling covered calls, even though the stocks are down in value.

The North American stock market lost almost 50% of its value from October 2007 to October 2008, which substantially reduced the value of equity mutual funds. Providing people don't cash in their stocks and mutual funds while they are down, they have not locked in the loss.I have no doubt that the stock market will recover. There has been some recovery since November and I expect it will improve further over the coming months. It may take a couple of years or longer to get back to its former high. Some companies may go broke and their stocks become worthless, but there is little long term risk in a diversified mutual fund.

"How do we respond during an economic turn-down? By increasing all our missions and ministries, by giving more, helping more people in need,praying more, singing more, laughing more and thanking God more"

-Rev. Mark Lewis,

St.Andrews Presbyterian Church, Cambridge

great statement..thanks sl.

After being laid off 2 weeks ago, I've run the gamut of responses to the 'economic downturn' scapegoat that our employers seem to favor as of late.  Like the Wall Street bonus scandals (over $18 billion paid out in 2008), it seems the low-hanging fruit must perpetually worry over its livlihood in favor of the executives with stock options, god forbid a mutual fund take a hit so families can eat every night.  Perhaps this is the eye-opener that us Gen-y/xers and Millenials needed to curb the consumerism we're absolutely 'consumed' by and start preparing for something farther in advance than the upcoming movie releases of the week.  Some cultures encourage 10% of your monthly income be put away into savings for just such an occasion, rather than the day-by-day credit lifestyles that we've degenerated into.  I've certainly learned the lesson.

yup, we had 160 given indefinite layoff this week...and that doesn't include the number released permanently before that..or all the contractors before Christmas.

I do so feel for people.

My sister was telling me of a friend of her son's who lost house and has no place to live in a rural area..and where they are staying.  I hope eyes are opening up of how low we are sinking right now..

I have several friends and family members who work in various positions in the broader auto sector. Lots of stress and worry for them...

I am seeing that folks are not coping well with normal crisis points, such as health crisis for a coworker, or busy work.

I am feeling secure right now, because we both are employed safely.  His business is seeing some squeezing, but they are in a good position for riding it out.  Where we see it is in contractors coming to him for any work he can offer, and of course in the friends & family around us.  For some, the support for retraining may hold the key, for others ... I dont' know.

We bought a house last spring (red flags) but our area is smaller family homes that are still selling well.  I understand it is the large homes that are not selling, and being put up for sale.  As well, if my  house value has dropped, it has several years to go back up before I'm planning to move anyway.  We can handle our payments and have years of experience cutting costs & corners.

So - I'm not flying high, feeling no pain and watching things improve- for instance- I didn't have any investments to lose, and I likely won't get a fancy vacation ever until I've been married for 25 years or something, but we've survived so far.  (how do people afford these things?)  We're ok -

our stock has dropped to 1/4 of its value at Dec. 07.  We are on track with all the others in our sector / competitors.

A person shared with me last night, they were advised they were taking a 20% pay cut in 8 weeks, approx 4 weeks ago.  They have now been asked to take a 20% reduction in hours.  So, for someone making 50,000 / year, they went to 40,000, then, will drop to 32,000 / year.   This is their sole income and they are a single parent. 

Sure, they are still employed.  To the outside, all appears to be the same.  To the inside, though... .it is so hard.

 Our RRSPs have fallen by close to 50%, my kids RESPs by even more.  But I've got a long time to go before I use either of those, so some of the investments were more higher risk and I still have time to recover. 

Our house has lost it's value, and was doing so even last summer when we tried to sell.  Right now I don't think that we'd get what we paid for it.  And we got it in 2006 before the prices really peaked.

But we can manage our mortgage, get food on the table, and clothes on our backs.  I'm blessed to have a well paying job with good benefits. 

What concerns me is that my job is the lynch pin on which everything else holds.  As long as I have my job, we're going to keep our head above water, and even make some headway.  But if I lose my job, we may have to sell investments at a loss to minimize our mortgage.  But as long as I can get another job, we'll be able to breakeven.

We have made some questionable financial decisions in the last few years, but overall our finanical situation is healthy.  I really feel for families and individuals who don't have the luxury of a stable job and some financial assets.   While we're economising in some areas, we're increasing our charitable givings, and I'm increasing my voluneer hours.  It's really not much, but it's something small I can do to try to help my community.

I had someone who had the audacity to say...it won't hit us that much...as not hitting the social sector.

ok..here's my question...if the EI budgets get blown, if the social housing budgets get blown..if all other social network budgets get blown...if the tax base is knocked out...do people think that the government won't have to make adjustments in other areas?

thanks kenzie...

My sense is your concern which you have so graciously shared with us, is a burden that many folks in your age group are carrying.

Sorry that's funny Pinga, I never checked your age bracket.  Just assumed from your posts that you were my age group too!

Last week, 80 folks were laid off from a plant in my community.

Today, over 100 from another firm were advised they would be losing their jobs.

Combined, at a very conservative estimate of $50,000/employee, that is $9,000,000 removed from the local economy.

In December and January similair news broke.

These are not automative plants, though they do provide service to automotive.

i know it isn't just local.

Please say a prayer for those who are faced with unemployment who never expected it and those who always figured if something happened to their firm, they could apply to one of the others locally, after all ...they were good employees.

Pinga - my prayers are with them and with all those who are facing unemployment during these difficult times.

wow - your community got nailed - so awful & I bet it feels pretty hopeless up there.  All at the time that 'experts' were saying the economy is levelling out.  Well, big deal!  The experts' ideas are not paying bills for these folks.

So sad :(

There was an article on CBC's site that some homes have gone for $25,000 in Windsor, due to foreclosures , auctions.

Now, these are likely the little war-time houses which are near the Ford plants...but, still....that is a sign of hurting folks.

So..another hammer dropped...

5% pay cut.

I have done some checking and am hearing numbers of 20%, 10% & 5% from companies similair to ours.

ouch.  are you worried about your job Pinga? 

no.....but many many friends have lost their jobs....a plant was announced to be shutdown...

it's not about me...

i know we are not the worst of what is happening in many manufacturing facilities in NA....