thanks for sharing this. gives me quite alot to think about as i deal with some health issues.

Makes sense, thank you for posting this.

i would simply add that 'total health' is different for each individual. 

I think it is interesting, but not written by anyone in chronic pain.

 

IMO pain, broadly speaking, comes in three ways: physical, mental and spiritual. I have had my share of each kind, and I still get twinges in each category. Feel free to share, or not, where you get yours. I read your bio. Interesting.

I mostly agree with this.  If you can get yourself centered, then the rest of your life should and can fall in place too.  I don't know if I will ever be pain free but I can certainly help to calm it down, which in turn will help me out and all those that are in my life.

I'm not referring to twinges. I'm talking about real pain. I have worked for 30 years with both wrists broken (scaphoids). I walk on one artificial knee and one that is overdue for replacement. My hands are gnarled with arthritis. I know many who suffer far more than I do.

Many doctors and other pious idiots preach on psychological pain management, and push placebos. These work only for a while. I can blank out all pain for short periods of time - especially in an emergency or when I am enraged (an expensive luxury). I can't do it all the time and I get tired beyond words of constant, everpresent pain - both conscious and unconscious. There are many in far worse shape than me. Yet still we are treated as drug addicts and phonies.

It was the medical community that really started the whole illegal drug community - after the wars of the last century they treated wounded soldiers with Morphine. Then they turned them out on the street telling them that further medication would cause them to be addicted. This created the street drug industry as the vast majority of the drug addicts before 1970 were war veterans. Other doctors firmly believed that people who genuinely need a medication cannot become addicted - a total myth.

The fact is that a dependance on pain relievers is a necessary evil for those in chronic pain and far less serious than constant suffering. If meditation works for you - fine, but don't knock others who need more effective methods.

Well said SLJudds. I would be unable to function without my meds.

Hello RevKing ......God bless you.....

 

I agree with you Rev....although each of us have to bare pain each day...having Faith in a God that heals helps no matter what kind of shape were in ...although I dont have a problem with people taking medication....I find that God and medication can work to better heal our physical bodies....

 

With the pain we have it does help if we used Gods values to help ourselves ...when we are stressed, angry, anxious or frustrated with our pain then it can intense our pain greatly ....this is where it helps to meditate/pray...try to keep ourselves in a peaceful calm state...I know that sounds like a difficult thing to do but it definately eases the pain in our bodies....I know it works for me....Praise the Lord...

 

IJL:bg

Re "George Gurgieff: "A man will renounce any PLEASURE, but he will NOT give up his SUFFERING" --our many tears and broken hearts ."
 

Gurdjieff  did say that.  What he meant is that it was necessary to give up, to sacrifice our "unconscious" suffering, which is rooted in illusion.  What he calls "intentional suffering" is a different thing altogether.  The pillars of spiritual transformation, according to the teaching os Gurdjieff, are "intentional suffering" and "conscious labours."

Speaking from my view now and not necessarily Gurdjieff's: it is my view that the clearest example of intentional suffering is that of the Redeemer on the Cross.

Marnie Tunay  Fakirs Canada http://fakirscanada.spaces.live.com/default.aspx

 

I am not implying such to ANYONE in this forumm but  I know  a few  who are happily hypochondriac. Sometimes I think I married one. 

 

Realmseer said: "If you can get yourself centered, then the rest of your life should and can fall in place too." Without in any way being judgmental of people in pain, this is the point that I am trying to make. As Socrates put it, "Know thyself!"

Thanks for all your comments and for sharing your personal stories of what you are doing as you:

Work on Dealing with Pain and Suffering in order to have better physical, mental and spiritual health.

In order to make what I want to say more clear, note that I have made a change in the title of this thread. Feel free to suggest other improvements.

 

Let me assure you that I make no claim to being infallible, neither am I suggesting that there is no such thing as somatic, physical and real pain needing somatic therapies.  Over the years, working with doctors (medical and otherwise), pschotherapists, nutritionists, and pneumatherapists (spiritual healers) I have been an advocate of the integrative approach.

 

Note, also, that I said, "Begin with the ego. I did not say stop there."

I believe we can all work on our psychological and spiritual health - and by doing so - have a more pain free life.

Physical pain, is more difficult. If it's lifestyle induced - then we can do something about it. But some illnesses don't come into this category, and I think it's acceptable then to take pain medication - or whatever else helps.

In some cases improving psychological and spiritual health may not give us a more pain free life, but it can definitely help us deal with the pain and help with our attitude towards life in general. My rheumatologist has stated that stress does not make our pain worse,  but when stressed we may perceive our pain as more severe and have more difficulty dealing with it. I also believe that some medical conditions such as autoimmune disorders can a flare during times of stress from our bodies reaction to the stress itself , and also due to lack of rest and sleep. An example of this would be a death in the familly ..... you do what you must do, to get done what has be done, but will suffer from increased pain in the days that follow  for the above reasons.

PP: In your prophile you mention:
  

My  "big" ambition is to overcome my fear of death, so that when that my time comes (hopefully not for a long time yet!) I will die with peace and dignity.

 

By the way, before I respond to a post I always check the prophile of the writer. It is very helpful. Thanks for having the courage to mention your fear "death"--something many people are even afraid to mention.

 

THE NATURE AND FUNCTION OF FEARS--healthy and otherwise.

 

This brings up the whole topic of the nature and function of fear and poses any number of questions.                                                   

For example, when does a fear become a PHOBIA?

What about those among us who are afraid of life?

What are our ongoing fears, if any?

Or, are we afraid to mention them?

Is it normal to be fearless?

FEARS? ANXIETIES? DREADS? PHOBIAS? OR JITTERS?

 

My fears? I have always had a nagging fear of poverty--for self and others. Perhaps, as I have said elsewhere, it is because I was born in 1930, the seventh of eight children--my only living sibling is a sister who is 78. I will be eighty, January 14, 2010.

 

About death? I am cramming for my finals. I will be very annoyed if it happens without a warning as to when. I would also like to know: What texts--Bible, Koran, the Vedas, etc.,--should I be reading?

 

THIS IS POVERTY

BTW, my oldest brother was born in 1906. All "joeking" aside, his name was Joe.   Joe and my oldest sister, her husband, her two children and our mother (she was 50) were all killed by the scourge of TB--no doubt it was aggravated by the poverty of the time--by the time I was five. In the 1930's, most of the 10, 000 people living on Bell Island, NL--an iron ore mining town--lived in third world and unhealthy conditions.  www.bellisland.net   Ironically, WW 2, brought full employment and a kind of prosperity. This enabled me to earn enough money to get away to university, at 17.

 

 

Since then, with help of my wife, Jean (a retired teacher)--we married in 1952-- the kings have been relatively well off. Since 1994 we have both been what we like to call "re-directed"--we do not like the term "retired".

 

 

ABOUT THE FAMILY LIFE FOUNDATION (FLF). Members and volunteers of the FLF are advocates of the principle of the Golden Rule, which we believe will help us find the Goden and Middle way--the Golden Mean. We have a similar philosophy and spiritual outlook to those, past and present, including Jesus, who advocate that, while the past has its lessons to teach us, and that it is interesting to speculate as to what the future will hold, we must live in the eternal NOW--no getting away from it. In my opinion it is another word from GOD. Unless we learn how to become aware of and at peace with the NOW, there will be no peace of mind. Therefore, we invite you to join us and have a pragmatic approach to the NOW.

 

 

We are both volunteers with the Family Life Foundation. Without any upfront cash fees--but let us talk barter--the FLF is into helping families, including singles, find total personal health, including peace of mind and economic health--for self and community. Founded in 1973, as part of the outreach ministry of Willowdale UC--but non-sectarian and open to all religions--the FLF has been in the forefront in the promotion of the barter economy--goods and services of all kinds, for all our needs.

Check out   www.viatrade.ca  

http://www.universalbartergroup.com/charity_workingwithcharity.aspx

 

PP, you write: "My other ambition is to see an iceberg in Alaska (depite it being the home of Sarah Palin.)"

 

PP, somewhere I have a picture of myself in a bathing suit. It was taken in May or June, in the 1940's. I remember I was sitting on an iceberg, near Bell Island, NL. God! it was cold. But, thank heavens, the air was warm. Not long ago, Jean, I and many others took the cruise to Alaska. Being October, there were no icebergs, but we did see some amazing glaciers.

Hi RevLindsayKing,

Firstly, congratulations on your recent 79th birthday.

I've had a fear of death since I was in my teens and had a dream I was dying.When I awoke I comforted myself that it was just a dream - it wasn't really happening. Then I had the thought that it really was happening - we're dying from the minute we're born. Scary stuff!!

I've lost a lot of close family members since then (including my husband), and although they wanted an end to their suffering, not one of them looked on death as welcome.

 One of my hopes for my retirement years is to overcome this fear of death -so that when the time comes I'll be at peace. It seems to me that this can only be accomplished by exploring spiritual/religious ideas and experiences. Thanks to Marcus Borg I've now found a theologian whose beliefs on Christianity make sense to my rational mind. I've made a start!!

As to my other ambition of seeing an iceberg in Alaska - for an Australian living in Sydney it's hardly surprising! We are experiencing a heatwave here - with some States over 40 degrees celsius.

Apart from the obvious difference in our climates - Canadians and Australians have a lot to talk about - and thanks to Wondercafe we now have an opportunity.

I think it was Woody Allen, who jokes a lot about his hyochordria, who said: "I am not afraid of dying; I just do not want to be there when it happens." LOL!!!

 

Pommun mentioned "help you deal with the pain" in reference to balancing yourself.  This is what I kind of ment.  I suffer extreme pain and fatigue every day and take meds everyday (just tried my first injection of freezing today in my neck) but I "feel/think" I handle it better then someone else would because of who I am on the inside. (Cant think of the right wording at the moment but I am sure you get what I mean).  One day I am hoping that I can either lower my intake (instead of the current increase) of meds and increase my physical therapy etc., or be better all together!  I have hope but at the same time I am being realilistic that I may be on meds for the rest of my life:(, not happy about that thought but I can live with it if I have too along with the pain and fatique.  Life still goes on and I will continue to live my life in it to the best that I can.  I believe in mind over matter to a certain degree.

 

One of my alltime favorite quotes.  

 

As always PP, thanks for sharing your feelings about life and death. Your frank way of writing raises so many interesting questions--which, IMO, is good. As long as we are humble enough to accept that perhaps, this side of death, there will always be more questions than answers, I am all in favour of asking them.

 

BTW, since early in 2007 I have been involved with a Science Forum   scienceagogo.com,  which originates in Australia. I started one thread there, using the name Turner--my wife's family name--which now has nearly 750,000 clicks on  it. There is also a thread on immortality: 

http://www.scienceagogo.com/forum/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=281...

One post mentions the following article from one of your papers?:

http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/story/0,25197,24279207-30417,00.html

============================================

 

ABOUT EMANATION--THE BRIDGE BETWEEN CREATION AND EVOLUTION

 

In the now, I am conscious of myself as a pneumatological, or spiritual being. I came into being as an emanation from all Being, from the No-Thing, or GOD, itself. As a unit of GOD, a human and potentiallyhumane being, I am a student of the evolution life, especially in its new and conscious form.

 

Also in the now, as human and humane being, I am having a relatively enjoyable psychological--that is, mental and ego-influenced--experience. As I choose to be more and more humane--that is, loving, gracious and just--I will play a larger role in the positive evolution of all things.

 

At the same time I am having a somatological, or physical and material experience. I look forward to death, not as an end, but as a  graduation back to the freedom which being truly spiritual brings.

 

QUESTIONS WHICH COME TO MY MIND:

1. Regarding mortality and immortality: From where did we emanate? Or is life a one shot deal? What choices do we really have? Is this our first and only time on planet earth? Is there a case for reincarnation, in one form or another? What do we do with the traditional beliefs regarding earth, heaven, hell, purgatory, and whatever?

2. Should we just be content to accept that life is the mystery that it is and leave it at that? Do the physicalists, the somatologists, have the last word?

3. About pneumatology--the study of the spirit--divine and human: Is it OK to take a scientific approach to religion and metaphysics and explore all possibilities?

4. Serious scientists are talking about billions of galaxies and mysterious multi-dimensional universes. Will more and more knowledge about this help us develop a better pneumatology and theology?

WHAT ARE YOUR QUESTIONS?

 

I have had two near death experiences and found that I had no fear whatsoever when facing what I fully believed was my immediate demise. They were both profoundly spiritual.

Hi Rev King,

I suppose I am a very frank sort of person - now that I'm 60+ I've come to the conclusion that every person on this Earth is unique, so we owe it to ourselves and our Maker to be just as we truly are.

I find a few people are disturbed by this - but most welcome it.

Mmm, I'll try and get my head around your pneumatology!

SLJudds,

Thank you for giving me hope!!

If you remember, tell us more.

 

My wife, Jean, recently told our regular meeting of the pneumatology and Family Life group: "Over 52 years ago, I had an out-of-the-body, or near-death, experience. It was in the fifth month of my pregnancy with our daughter, Catherine. I had to have major surgery. Later, the surgeon told me: "It was a close call. I was on the verge of ending the pregnancy, but something told me, no. So here you are."

Catherine was born at full term.

 

Here she is, now. She and her husband Wayne Adams are both artists. The floating-house is located in its own cove, near Tofino, BC--on the west coast of Vancouver Island. Our first visit there was in 1994.

LIFE IN AND ON A FLOATING HOME

 

Just keep in mind that in the New Testament, whenever the word 'Spirit' is used, the Greek word is 'pneuma'. For example, in John 4:24, when Jesus says to the Samaritan woman: "God is Spirit..." In the Greek NT, the word is 'pneuma'. The same is true for John 3:5--the story of Jesus and Nicodemus. 'Pneuma' literally means air, wind or breath. From it we get a word 'pneumatic and pneumonia'.

Check out 1 Thess. 5:23, where Paul speaks about the need to be integrated in spirit (pneuma), soul (mind, psyche)  and body (soma).

BTW, I agree with Eckhart Tolle (Google on the name). I think of the mind, psyche or soul as similar to ego--the less than real you. Jesus had a similar idea, over 2000 years ago. What a philosopher he was!

Hi Rev King,

I have a step-daughter who is a somatic therapist - so I understand that part of your "trinity".

One of the simplest and best descriptions of the individual ego when compared to the other state of an integrated whole, I owe to reading one of Bruce Sanguin's sermons.

Bruce talks about "little heart" and "little mind" (ego) and compares it to "big heart" and "big mind" (transcended integrated whole).

To me, life is experienced as both "little heart and mind" - changing backwards and forwards to "big heart and mind".

How content we'd feel if we could spend more of our lives in "big heart and mind"!

PP, keep in mind that the "trinity" model--soma, psyche and pneuma--you mentioned goes back to at least 1 Thess. 5:23, by Paul. In 1 Corinthians Paul points out that there is world of difference between our being 'psychekoi' --that is, trapped in animal-like minds (psyches)--and being 'pneumataloi'--that is, consciously aware that we are spiritually free to make choices--for good or ill. As fully conscious beings we can tell the difference between being somatic, psychic and pneumatic.

 

 

SOMATIC.

Fully aware we know when conditions are somatic and require somatic solutions. For example, physically hungry people need food. A cook book with hundreds of recipes will not satisfy real physical hunger. Long ago wise missionaries knew that justice requires that people need to have well fed and healthy bodies before they are ready for the things of the mind and the spirit. Thankfully, it doesn't take a lot, or a long time, for the body to get over most physical conditions.

 

However, some soma conditions can be the result of ignorance. Here's where using the psyche, the mind, comes in handy. For example, if you were stranded in the artic you could die of scurvey, which is caused by the lack of vitamin C. People who live in the artic get their vitamin C from eating raw fish and meat, erspecially  the organs of animals. Early explorers learned this by being wise enough to consult the natives.

 

 

PSYCHO-SOMATIC.

About 100 years ago medical science finally accepted that some soma conditions, including death, are caused by physical and mental stresses, not just germs. If we are not wise enough to handle the stresses of life they can lead to chronic diseases and even death. In the 1930's, wise medical researchers coined the term 'psychosomatic'--of, or having to do with, both mind (soma) and body (soma).

 

BTW, there can also be a reverse effect. Certain mental disease conditions can also be somapsychic. You have heard of the mad hatter in the book, Alice in Wonderland?  Years ago, mercury was used in the hat industry. We now know that inhaling a lot of mercury fumes can cause became mental illness.

 

 

PNEUMA-PSYCHO-SOMATIC.

Then there are those of us who, for our own peculiar reasons, have allowed ourselves to be pushed around by our egoes. Thus we have become our own worst enemies and prone to bring on the pain and suffering of illness. Those of us, including me, who have been addicted, and dealt with it, know this.

 

With the above in mind, read the parable of the Lost Son--Luke 15:11-32. Here we have a perfect example of a young man who was obviously the victim of a pneumapsychosomatic condition. He was ill all over--physically, mentally and spiritually. Things began to change immediately when he became spiritually aware of what he was doing to his mind and body and, "came to himself"-- that is, he said to his real self:

 

"I will get up and go..." Right then, in the now, he took personal responsibility to deal with the cravings brought on by the ego--which Eckhart Tolle, and other prophets before him, say is the root cause of suffering and pain. And what did he find? Help from his father (GOD) was on the way, even while he was still a "long way from home".