Welcome to WondeCafe Gen2b2. I will probably just be listening on the discussion which is bound to follow. I am sure that you will find us a sympathetic bunch and sympathy is about all I have to offer.

Welcome to wondercafe gen2b2!  Glad you found your way to this place where your voice can be heard, your concerns can be shared and hopefully connections will be made that you will find helpful.

First, lots of luck on your term papers and  exams.  I remember too well the pressures of those days!  Wishing you all the best!

Now on to your questions...

Sounds like an interesting group of room mates coming from some very different backgrounds.   Your other room mates are probably trying to help Sally best they can given the experience and their understanding of religion learned thus far. They are firm in their thoughts because that's what they have been taught.....eg. your eating disorder is a sin.  And then they back it with a bible verse.  

 I'm guessing that the reason you are questioning your own views is because you have been taught that it's OK to have questions.  IMHO that is not a bad thing.  It allows you to learn and grow.

You said  "How can I tell Sally how God can ACTUALLY provide comfort and strength to her while she goes through this? How do I explain how the others are wrong without sounding like I'm bad-mouthing them (remember:we're all close, and we're all in this "get-sally-better" effort together. Also, any tips for co-existing with otherwise nice right-wing religious nutbags?"

My suggestion would be to share with Sally your understanding of God.  eg "The God of my understanding is like a loving parent who embraces each child in their time of pain and doubt and carries them.  You are a special child of God and you are loved very much.  God gives us strength when we are feeling weak and courage when we are feeling scared.  I will pray for you Sally that God will give you the strength and courage to see you through these difficult challenges in your life.  I hope you believe me that God loves you very much and so do I.  You are not alone in this."

While your other friends may not share all of your religious ideas, I'm guessing that they will see that offering encouragement, love and hope to Sally would be a good thing to do at this time.

My thoughts and prayers are with you and your friends gen2b2. 

Not  calling them religious nutbags might be a start.

lol- right-o!  But at the same time, they  have a captive audience who they feel they can preach at.  The nutbag part isn't being religious, its feeling free to dump this baggage on her because she is in a vulnerable position.

Hi Gen2b2 - good to meet you!  My guess would be that an easier approach would fairly low-key.  Perhaps after they dump on her one day and exit, you might get a chance to say, "how are you when they say that to you?  I just can't see God that way... my experience has been very different. " and leave it at that for now.  Go on to filling in gossip and regular chit chat.

Next opportunity, or if your friend continues the conversation would be to say, what Trish said, or whatever your understanding is: that God is in the healing and the possibility of how great life can be, and God is in the doctors and counsellors and supporters all around. -

And then go back to being a spirit of love & friendship & fun. 

Great post Birthstone!

Or maybe, to clarify.....what busymom said........

Greetings!

And a great big Wondercafe welcome, gen2b2.

I am glad to hear that your friend is trying to get help from professionals at this time in her life - and that despite this being try#6, she is still seeking help.

It must be difficult for you and all your roomies to walk this walk with her.  Thinking of you as you do so.

Best wishes on exams, essays, and assignments.  And as for Happy Easter - right back atcha!!!

Hope, peace, joy, love . . .

I am glad your friend is in hospital to get professional help.

Despite the best intentions of your roommates, a severe eating disorder is not within her will power to control.

She has big issues related to a whole host of life experiences and needs constant counselling and support.

I am wondering where her parents are in this.  It doesn't sound like your room mate has been attending classes and I wonder if her parents have any idea of the illness she is suffering.

It is illness and she is suffering.  Many suffer their entire lives with versions of eating disorders.

Personnally, despite the friendship between you and the other room mates, I think you need to call them on this " heal yourself of thy sin" bible thumping.  It isn't going to do any good and is implicitly putting a tons of extra stress on the girl who is ill.

If she gets out of hospital before you all separate for the summer, I think you can only provide loving friendship and compassion.  If she speaks of God, I would agree with others that you can refer to God's love for all of his creation, Gods accessibility to any who call out, your faith that God is there for her.  She may be someone who would get comfort from the "Footprints" poem about God carrying you through tough times.

And welcome. 

Welcome gen, you've had some good suggestions above that I agree with.  I also think it's important that you and your roommates understand that there is nothing you can do to get Sally better.  Worrying a great deal, being with her every moment so she doesn't hurt herself, etc. is too much for university students to handle, and not likely to make a big difference in Sally's recovery.

It's great that you aren't abandoning Sally and I applaude this.  It isn't as great that you are worrying and feeling like a bad Christian.  I hope you'll take a step back from the edge a bit to realize it isn't your job to fix this; only to love Sally.  It's important that caregivers don't fall into their own hole while they're trying to pull a friend out of one.

You won't be a "bad Christian" if you detach a bit from this, gen.  You won't be a bad "friend" if you seek some relationships that are easier for you.  I'm not saying to dump the present situation, only to expand it a bit to keep you from falling in the hole.  Peace and strength to you.

YES to what Abpenny said - detaching is ok, being safely connected but not swamped by her journey is ok, focusing on your studies and your life is ok. Trust that the caregivers around your friend are doing their jobs...

Hello gen2b2 and welcome to the WonderCafe,

Do you want to tell her that or prove that to her?

Is that what she actually has need of at the moment?

I do not doubt that God is aware of Sally's struggle and that God is present for Sally.  Your job is not to point that out to her.  Your job,as a friend, is to be present also.  How that looks is for you to decide.

Sally is in the hospital which means that there will be people generally far more knowledgeable about Sally's condition and course of treatment handy.  What Sally probably has the greatest need of is a friend who knows how to listen.

Listening means that Sally does the bulk of the talking.

The best Biblical example of compassionate pastoral care is reflected in the book of Job.  Job's friends come to comfort him and when they see him they simply sit beside him in silence for a number of days letting his pain take centre stage.  They screw up royally when they begin to advise Job on how to fix his problem.

That might be something you share with your friends.  That maybe Sally doesn't need their advice, or yours either, maybe she just needs friends who have the courage to sit in the silence with her and listen to her pain.

For starters.  Don't bad-mouth them.  If your descriptions of your friends posted here are exactly how you talk to one another in real life that is fine.  If your description is one you wouldn't voice outloud in front of them then stop posting it here.

While this post may be all about you Sally's treatment is nothing about you or your friends.  If the three of you can't agree on that then stay far away from her.  Listening may feel really hard, that's good, because it is hard.  Shutting up might be harder.  Too bad, there is no one word you or your friends can give to Sally that is going to change what she is going through.

Nothing any different than the tips I would offer for co-existing with otherwise nice left-wing fruitcakes.  Respect goes a long way.

Also, when you are not dealing with each other but a friend in crisis it isn't your job to tell your friend what she needs.  It is your job to listen to your friend tell you what she needs.  A gentle faith which listens graciously is far better than an insistent faith that is prepared only to talk.  And to be honest, it doesn't matter where you line up, if you aren't prepared to be present and listen, you are not offering anything meaningful.

I don't know what about this issue is God's fault.  As far as your feeling like a bad Christian, it happens.  Everyone makes mistakes.  Everyone gets sidetracked from what is really important.  If Sally's well-being is your primary concern let Sally tell you what she needs you to do.  Don't bring her anything unless you have cleared it with her family or her physician.

Grace and peace to you.

John

I wasn't expecting all of this love and encouragement so quickly...you all are so wonderful.

just to clarify, I NEVER call my roomates nutbags to their faces. I haven't given all the details of some of the views they express when I'm around. To me, those views epitomize intolerance and bigotry...and sometimes miss all the good things that Christianity has to offer. They are not just a little conservative..they are very, very strict in their faith and hang around with people who have an even more rigid view of the world than they do. Despite all that, I still respect them as people and we hang out and enjoy the same things.

Sally's parents have been there for her for the past seven years. That's how long she's been dealing with her eating disorder (it's anorexia, with some purging)..although some times have been better than others. Her mum and dad can't care for her because they have to work (treatment is EXPENSIVE, and they need to keep their insurance coverage) and Sally was kicked out of the hospital a few months ago (not improving, bad influence on others). Living with us for a few months seemed the only option. It has been very hard and other aspects of our lives have suffered, but she needed a place to be, and it wasn't a question that we would take her in. She's one of our best friends. We went to a training program at the hospital to learn about her care. It's still a struggle though...and a huge relief that she is now in the care of professionals.

Sally never went to church as a kid and never really thought about God one way or the other. Now she wants to, and she asks about it. This is coming from her--but I'm sure it partly resulted from our roomates describing Jesus as her ticket to recovery. They firmly believe that...and I kind of do too...but in a different way. I want to tell her that she is God's child, that he loves her, and that neither God nor the Devil inflicted her sickness on her. It's not a test or a punishment. But then she asks, "then why did this happen to me"? and I really don't have an answer..only maybe that earth isn't like heaven, it's not perfect. Not so comforting.

on a slightly related note...I've never been such good friends with someone who might die. I've grown much, much closer to sally over the last few months while we lived together, and now we visit regularly.her ailments are terrifying...stunted growth, osteoporosis, heart problems, etc. Just blabbing this all out to understanding people has been helpful, and your comments mean a lot to me:). "student support" on campus doesn't have the benefit of spiritual input. given the spritual emphasis in our household, wondercafe is perfect.

Oh, that's fine then.

It looks like you got good advice from a bunch of people on here already.

There's many things that various friends and I disagree on.  It's fairly easy to disagree with people without saying that they are wrong.  Go ahead and tell Sally what you believe.  You can tell your other friends that you disagree and why without arguing.

I really like what Busymom said, about GOD being a loving father. I have a daughter so I really gravitate to that analogy. I know if my baby ever suffered from an eating disorder I would love her completely and offer support and sympathy, not blame. You've gotten a lot of good advice. Be there for her. Listen. Emphasize the love of GOD, not dogma, and don't try and pass off getting saved as a quick fix. I've heard of cases where, an alcoholic for example, gets saved, and boom the desire to drink is gone forever in an instant. I've heard of other cases where the person gets saved, goes to A.A. for years, lives with constant temptation, sometimes falls off the wagon, etc. I don't think the second persons salvation is any less real than the first persons, GOD just has different paths for different people. While it is within GOD's power to heal her instantly and permanently, neither you or your roommates know whether or not that is HIS will, so it's best not to promise that. Emphasize HIS love, and the love of the brothers and sisters in CHRIST she will have. Best wishes for you and her. Please keep us updated.

 Rev John, thank you for writing what I was thinking.

If one believes in the power of prayer, then I would think they would see the power of God who quietly listens to our troubles and provides us the strength to find our own answers.

Having read Gen2b2's description of Sally, I think Sally has become capable of avoiding temptation to her detriment.  I do not believe she needs any more lessons on that front.  She needs to learn how to like herself and one way for that to happen is to have someone willing to listen to her.

LB

I looked for my soul but my soul I could not see. I looked for my God but my God eluded me. I looked for a friend and then I found all three.

     William Blake

This has all been so helpful! I might get a chance to visit Sally on monday night and I plan to bring her some DVDs (I hijacked them from my grandma's place after Good Friday dinner) and just do her nails, sit with her, offer a backrub, and generally just be a friend. I'll let you know how it goes. It can be a bit scary to see someone you've known for a while look and act so unlike her chipper and VERY funny self..she sleeps a lot and can act pretty glazed for much of the time from all the medicine she takes. And she looks so tiny and frail on the big hospital bed. after her six weeks of bed rest I'm hoping to see some colour in her cheeks and meat on her bones (she wouldn't appreciate that phrasing though). When she's been in treatment before we said "Sally, you look so good!" and she would be all "Oh my god, you can tell I've gained weight!" and get very upset. From experience and good advice from WC'ers, I've finally realized that I should listen and mostly not talk.

gen2b2 ... Sally is lucky to have such a caring and supportive friend. It must be so hard for you to watch her experience this challenging illness. I think the idea of listening and just being with her is a good approach. Doing her nails or giving a gentle backrub if she's up for that sound really thoughtful and maybe just what she needs. Keep us posted.