As a dog owner i haven't walked a park alone in 20 years.  there is always the dog with me at least.

i think it rational to be wary of isolated areas.  Perhaps there are other women in your area with the same feelings and you could create a bit of a walking club.  Informally meet at the park at a certain hour.

I am cautious if i have to walk to my car late at night.  I have asked for someone to go with me when i left work late at night.  At one point we had several rapes in our parking lot and the hospital hired security guards to walk all nurses leaving evening shift to their cars.

Lots of people live alone and go on walks alone

Jeeze lady what are you really afraid of

Irrational ? you betcha

Do you do anything by yourself ?

Cell phone works and I dunno why you can't run ?

The common sense thing of course would be to go at a time when there are people around

It's silly to call the police and tell them that you are going for a walk

Worse case scenario some hunter will find you ....

Or people on the trail will complain about "that smell"

People who act like victims often become victims

What specifically freaked you out the first two times around ???????????

ninjafaery,

Fear is something we all have, at one time or another or always about one thing or another.

For me, the rational/irrational can be relative. I know people who think it is irrational that I fear using public washrooms that are not marked "family" or unisex. Yet, once they see me get confronted at the door or publicly humiliated they understand and it moves from irrational to rational for them.

You said there were incidents? Now, that can mean you are afraid unfounded or with cause. Do you live where it is not safe or that stuff happens with some regularity? I know some places I would tell someone walking alone that they need their head examined. I know of other places that if they felt they couldn't walk alone I would tell them they needed their head examined  =)

Are you vulnerable? Some will see that they are an easy target and that is what scares them. Other times, you can be vulnerable in other ways. My wife is an uncontrolled asthmatic. Her walking alone in extreme heat and humidity or extreme cold is just plain dumb. Her walking accomanied is also at times.

What is it that you fear and why?

Is that scary scenario possible on walks alone and not other times? If it is posible at other times what makes that not as scary as walking alone? Is it that your fear is heightened on walks? How and why is your fear reduced? Is whatever you are afraid of more or less likely depending on environment, is a nature walk better or worse? Are city streets better or worse? You don't have to share, but should answer for yourself.

Would the cell phone help in the scenarios that scare you?

For myself, what feels rational to another may seem less rational to me. I am more comfortable walking alone in the streets or malls or on trails than with another person. I am less comfortable where there are people than to walk alone in the woods. I am more afraid in the light of day than in the dark. That goes against most peoples grain. Yet, it is not irrational given that with another I am more likely to be identified as gay, that the increase in the number of people increases the chances of a negative response, animlas, flora and fauna have no baggage,  and in dim light I am assumed male...

Whether the fear is well based or baseless it should not control your life.

I think it is quite reasonable to be afraid to walk alone.  I carry a personal alarm while walking to my car.  I also frequently use safewalk, which I think all Canadian universities have.  It's a program where you call to get 2 people (usually male and female) to walk you to your car/bus stop etc.

As for walking in a park, I think it's best to go with someone.  Ask a friend, neighbour, or someone to go with you.  If you're going on a busy day it's probably fairly safe, but at the very least I would recommend taking a cell phone.

In general, it is good sense not to walk alone in isolated places, especially after dark,  such as parking lots, industrial streets, etc., or anywhere there are no "eyes."  This is especially true for women who are more often the victim of attacks.  It is also true of nature trails, bike paths, and so on.    lastpointe's suggestion of a walking club is a great idea.

I know of some people who walk on side streets at night because they are afraid of some of the people on downtown main streets.  This is exactly the wrong idea.  You want to be where there are people, even if that includes the ... unsavoury.

 My wife walks all the time and enjoys it, but she is careful about where she walks, not fearful.  She has walked all over New York City by herself, as a tourist, day and night, but avoids those areas where no one is around. 

I think it is quite reasonable to be afraid to walk alone. 

There are worse things to fear and you know what they say ... it's not what you fear the most that gets you in the end .....

 I am more likely to be identified as gay

You must think people don't have better things to do than play "what's that gender" ?

 We spend so much of our lives being scared ...... when something happens that is when you deal with it ..... don't spend your life preparing for it .....

I'm not a big fan of walking alone at night.  There were several sexual assaults on a beautiful trail near here during the day.  I do walk around here alone.  The trail that I take is well travelled and is never out of earshot of homes.  My mother carries her licence or a note with contact names and numbers in case something happens.  As far as I know she has done that for some time now.

I used to live in an area where there was a lot of prostitution.  I would never walk anywhere without grocery bags, my son or my dog because otherwise men would stop and try to pick me up.

I would love to have a nice big dog again.  There is nothing like a big dog for a feeling of security.

Once someone approached my partner for a quickie.  We were walking along a city street, in daylight, with the kids hopping around us.

Mostly I'm not afraid to walk in my hometown.  Winter nights are tough though as we have to walk out in the street among the cars.

I hate walking alone.

I am a young female (often on crutches) in a city where there have been some incidents in the past.  Also I can't seem to wipe the "I'm freaked out" look off my face- therefore I seem vulnerable, if the unstable on my feet thing wasn't enough.

I NEVER walk far distances alone at night.  I can't do it, it scares me too much.  If I do have to walk very short distances I carry my keys in my hands, stay off my cell phone (so I do not seem distracted) and walk as quickly as I can. I always carry my cell phone and identification on me.

I do not think it is irrational to be afraid of walking alone.

Jes, you are a rude twit.

I do a fair bit of walking & often go alone.  I'm alert & walk assertively, aware of my surroundings but not afraid.   I've also travelled abroad on my own & felt quite confident.

Quite some time ago, I took a Wen-Do workshop - one weekend & very empowering.  Actually, I took it again a number of years later & sent my daughter & her friend to it when they were 16.  It's a brief self-defense course for women of all ages & abilities - learning to use your abilities to first of all not get into situations, then secondly how to get out of them.  I highly recommend it to all women.

In my community, the Sexual Assault treatment team at the hospital sponsors the workshops several times each year.   They also have specialized workshops for women with disabilities.  http://www.wendo.ca/ 

Has anybody else taken it?  What did you think?  And the grand finale ... breaking a board with my fist!

Jesouhaite,

Well, after 3 hospitalizations (1 in ICU) and too numerous gay-bashing in the states to count, along with a beer bottle thrown, eggs thrown out a car window, having a pushing incident that a lady phoned police, a milkshake dumped in my lap in a mall, a Walmart cashier getting security because someone was ramming me with a cart, a man walking up and screaming about my wanting to be a man and poking me in the chest with every word... all in Canada... I do think there are people with nothing better to do than be worried about my gender.

Big fat wet kiss for you Jes.  Jesus loves ya, Sunshine.

Maybe you'll get lucky hon, and be the first one to find my putrid, rotting corpse.

(And yeah, I know.  You're just telling it like it is and being honest since no one else here is.  Not making nicey nicey or sugarcoating the truth.  Did I miss anything?)

-------------------------

Anyhoo.

I appreciate everyone's thoughts and advice.  Thanks for reminding me about the wen do training, Carolla. I had thought about taking that several years ago.  I think most women's centres have info about that.   It makes a huge difference to one's confidence coming from a position of strength.  Like Kaye, I feel physically vulnerable and I guess it shows.

And Stevie -- you've asked all the right questions and given me something to work with -- thanks!

What I"d like to do most is walk at a conservation area and feel relatively safe.  After going over Stevie's questions, I think a good time to do that would be on a weekend when there would be lots of other people, and to make a point to be friendly to anyone I meet.  I could carry a personal alarm and my cell phone too.  That way, I'd feel less alone and free to just enjoy the walk.

I could watch for lots of vehicles in the parking lot.  Unfortunately, I work every weekend and the opportunities to do the conservation area would be few, since people tend to go then.

There's a local pole walking group that sounds like it would be good for exercise. 

I also am very aware of situations and areas that might not be safe and make brass knuckles out of my keys. 

A walking buddy is very sensible, but I walk mostly to process and think about things and to work stuff out in my head.  At times it's good to have company to chat with, but I find a solitary walk most therapeutic (when I'm not terrified). 

I was mugged on my way home from work after dark many years ago, and almost strangled with my winter scarf by a creep who started by exposing himself and then went after my purse.  I managed to extricate myself from that one though.  I even kept my purse. 

I yelled a lot. ("YOU BETTER RUN, YOU F**KING PERVERT! )  I believe I scared him since we were in a populated residential area.  It also helped that he was rather slightly built and I'm not.

The other time -- more recently -- I was followed by the proverbial psychotic, delusional guy who crossed the road when I did and started yelling at me.  There was no one else on the street I could see.  I told him I'd have to call the cops if he didn't leave me alone.  He got irate, but went away, turning around every now and then to swear at me.

A big dog would make me feel safer, but then I'd have to feed that puppy!

ninjafaery,

Just being honest and not sugar-coating anything... LOL    Are there others ways these incidents manifest fears outside walking alone? Is it fear as in afraid or is it fear as in petrified? Is their anxiety before you have to do it? If I said you needed to walk to the store after dark and your cell phone was dead, what would you be like?

It would be normal and natural after an assault to have fears, well based ones. Fear after these things is a often a negation of confidence. It also teaches us how vulnerable we can be, which is uncomfortable. How can you rebuild your confidence? How can you not feel vulnerable?

If after such a thing walking alone is it, you are doing ok. Is that it? You have to be honest with yourself. We use words like "mugged"... but it is an assault. For those who do not know what else there can be, there can be nightmares about what else might have happened, There can be fear of the dark develop or wanting to be in the dark, not turning lights on or closing blinds so people can't see you in your home. I counselled women who  it effected their sex life, because they would not be vulnerable. I met some who were examining motives of everyone they met.

I think it is good that you are looking at how and when you might be less vulnerable and feel more confident and also looking at what you want from walking (some folks need company and others don't) Have you looked into walking at a local mall or grocery store, just as a start? They have walking before or after hours and there are people there and security and you can walk without talking... it may build your confidence. The walking itself, feeling stronger, may make you feel less vulnerable and able to step onto that trail...

Just some stuff to think about.

Sorry but I find it funny that we want women to rule the world but we can't go for a walk alone ....

Something that no one has really addressed is HOW would you handle a situation if you were actually attacked ?

Self defense classes are not a bad idea but self defense classes run by women for women is absolute crud sorry but it is ...

Guys tend to have the upper hand when it comes to combat so if you can find a general self defense class with no "wimmen helping wimmen " agenda that might be better.

I dunno what good a personal alarm will do .... alarms go off all the time and people ignore them.

I guess none of you girly girls have ever worked evenings into the night where you leave the office at midnight or something ...... not as dangerous as you might think .....

SO when the creep exposed himself to you why didn't you sock him in the weenie ?

Here's a tip next time some mental case talks to you ........ don't respond just walk away ....

I find it sad that so many women feel uncomfortable in such normal situations.  This is not a criticism.  The fact that they are justified in most cases is what is distressing.  I have very few insights to offer than what I have already said.  It is difficult for most men to imagine themselves in the situation.

Yes because men know how to defend themselves ..... or at least kick some butt ....

Criminals smell fear and act .... personally you fix that one thing ..... being confident ..... I think you reduce your chances of a lot of stuff happening all at once ....

It depends on what you are used to I think I'm a city mouse so I see all forms of weirdos ha ha but most of em are harmless , I've been out on the town in the dead of night and sometimes unintentionally you gotta find your way home ...

Stevie said:

If after such a thing walking alone is it, you are doing ok. Is that it? You have to be honest with yourself. We use words like "mugged"... but it is an assault. For those who do not know what else there can be, there can be nightmares about what else might have happened, There can be fear of the dark develop or wanting to be in the dark, not turning lights on or closing blinds so people can't see you in your home. I counselled women who  it effected their sex life, because they would not be vulnerable. I met some who were examining motives of everyone they met.

The fallout was pretty much along those lines.  I would not walk to the store after dark without a cell phone unless it was really closeby.  I would wait until the next day.

Yup.  I became very wary and did have anxieties and nightmares for quite some time afterwards.  What was hard was that it occured so close to my home, and in a neighbourhood where I felt safe since childhood.

It really shook me up and is the reason for my fears, mostly.

Jes.

I guess none of you girly girls have ever worked evenings into the night where you leave the office at midnight or something ...... not as dangerous as you might think .....

Except that's exactly when that first assault occured.  And the exact circumstances.

SO when the creep exposed himself to you why didn't you sock him in the weenie ?

Because I was being strangled????

Here's a tip next time some mental case talks to you ........ don't respond just walk away ....

 That's exactly what I was doing.  

Your advice, however well- meant, is dangerous. 

I hope that anyone reading your posts understands this. 

(For some reason, I have an urge to tell you to get off the computer and finish your homework.  Are you an adolescent kid as your posts seem to suggest?)

DonnyG -- thank you for your thoughts and acknowledgement of the differences between men's and women's  experiences.

I expect that in addition to feeling vulnerable because of one's gender, people with disabilities or those who are gay also have these concerns.

Jes - I never used to fear walking, or cross country skiiing, alone in the woodlot near my home.  Or anywhere in the woods for that matter - fishing down stream while my companion fished in the opposite direction.  Picking wild berries in the woods, or fiddleheads along the riverbank.  No company, or maybe my dog.  Then, when I was in Ninja's age range, my doctor advised that because of a medical problem I shouldn't 'go into the woods alone' or alone with my dog.  At about that same time I realized that I wasn't as strong or as fleet of foot as I once was.  There was no way I could outrun a bear, or a man. 

At about the same time I found out that my daughter had been chased by a naked man while taking a well travelled short cut through a wooded area near the university.  She wasn't hurt.  And in broad daylight, on a busy sidewalk, I was intentionally knocked down by a drunken bum who apparently didn't like my looks.  It happened so fast and he was so much stronger than I that I realized my volunerability. 

While in my childhood, twenties, and thirties I thought nothing of walking alone - city streets after dark, wooded area, country lanes and hiking trails.  I got off a bus in Montreal at 3:00 am one morning and walked several blocks to my rooming house (where I lived alone) and thought nothing of it.  Now I would be nervous and try to avoid being in that position.

I also remind my husband if he goes up to the camp for a weekend and goes off into the woods alone - leave a note at the camp saying when he left and in what general direction he will be travelling.  (ie  Saturday morning, I'm walking down the track to Buck's Brook and fishing downstream.  I expect to be back before supper.)  Then if he doesn't come home Sunday night, I can call somebody to check the camp and they will have a general idea where to search.  He could fall and break a leg.  24 hours laying in a swamp is enough. 

It would be nice to think that we are all free and safe to walk wherever we want whenever we want.  But that's not the reality.  We need to use our God-given common sense. 

I have one gay friend who is quite athletic and extremely skilled in the martial arts.  I would feel very sorry for anyone who went after him in the dark.

But you are quite right.  I don't know if lesbians feel threatened in the same way, but for sure, most gay men pick their nightclubs, restaurants and vacation spots very carefully.

I don't go walking alone.  If I can't go with a friend I stay home and go on my treadmill.  

Your advice, however well- meant, is dangerous. 

How is it dangerous ? is it better to be strangled ? 

I hope that anyone reading your posts understands this. 

I would hope that they know they have options rather than being a dead fish

Fightening back is always better unless you are being threatened with a gun , even so getting shot is better than being dead ....

You know what the biggest misconception is ? That if you comply things will work out okay.... if you do as you're told you get to go home and that is hardly the case ....

The problem is that most people don't want to imagine what they might have to do in order to get out of a situation because it's too ugly ... if you had to stick your keys into his eyeball to stop him from strangling you would you have done it ?

Everybody likes a nice steak but they wouldn't last an hour in a slaughterhouse ....  nobody wants blood on their hands so how far would you go to save your own life.

I dunno about you but I like being alive I'm not going to hand my life over to some sicko I' don't wanna make the six o clock news at least not in that way so I'd like to think that I wanna live that bad enough to defend myself ....

Then, when I was in Ninja's age range, my doctor advised that because of a medical problem I shouldn't 'go into the woods alone' or alone with my dog.  At about that same time I realized that I wasn't as strong or as fleet of foot as I once was.  There was no way I could outrun a bear, or a man. 

 Except that anything could happen just about anywhere not just in the woods ....  you could and would outrun a bear or a man if you absolutely have to which goes back to my initial question to Ninja (hehe the screen name is so ironic I can't help but wonder)

heck the second biggest misconception is that you can't take on somebody who is stronger or bigger than you but the important thing is that you don't have to take someone on pound for pound

you just gotta have a small little travel size can of hair spray or other aerosol since things like mace are illegal (why is that I wonder) and spray your attacker in the eyes if they can't see ya then then can't run after you long enough to call 911 long enough to get away ,obviously you don't wanna tangle with someone if you can avoid it but if you can't you gotta use your whole body all us gals have a few extra pounds on the butt side this might be a good time to put it to some use ....

you can still kick and stomp someones toes you can still whack em in the willie .... all of this stuff you can find in just about any self defense class or book or website it's not secret information it's really about being aware and being alert ....

no one is suggesting you take ridiculous risks but we're talking about normal activities that everyone does ....

we go through life in a total fog not noticing anything ..... until it's too late. still living in fear is no way to live and the irony is if more people did come out at night it would be much much safer.

What happenes to us does getting "older" become a passport to just stop living ?

People who live to be 100 years old you can bet lived an uneventful  life they were safe they did nothing but lock their doors and windows and get home before the sun went down ..

I dunno about that !

Jes - despite my experience in reading your posts, sometimes I find it hard to believe the nonsense that you post.

Am I correct in quoting you as saying ". . . you could and would outrun a bear or a man if you absolutely have to . . ."?

Do you really think that a senior woman with a heart condition, encountering an angry bear, or a deranged man, while hiking alone, could and would outrun either?    Let's be conservative and imagine that I've only hiked a kilometer from the road where I left my car.  I come across a danger, animal or man, only say a dozen feet from me, and you are assuring me that I can outrun him.  Are you crazy?

The mere suggestion is not only bad advice, but dangerous advice. 

I don't know about you personally I'm saying that if someone anyone wants to actually LIVE they would do whatever it takes ..... and let's face it not everyone is up to saving their own lives right ?

It's not fair to place all "senior" and people with "heart conditions" in the same boat ....

That's like saying people in those groups don't have sex either and if a person can have sex with those two ailments I'm sure they can do more than just lie there ..... right ?

Jas - you specifically said to me "You could and would outrun a bear or a man if your absolutely have to."   If you had bothered to check my profile you would know that I'm a senior, and since I stated in this thread that my doctor advised me not to walk alone you might have surmised that I have a health problem but you never bothered to ask about it.  So you did say that a senior with a heart condition 'could and would outrun a bear or a man'.    I think that is a dangerous statement.

If fact, I seriously doubt if anybody could outrun a bear, or that very many women could outrun a man - unless they were in excellent condition and/or he was old or particularily slow.   There are tactics recommended for people who might encounter a bear or other dangerous animal.  None of these involve turning your back and running which simply triggers the chase response in many animals.

Think before you make statements.  Someone might think that you know what you are talking about.

I don't think I can make it any simpler.

Quote Ninjafaery: Your advice, however well- meant, is dangerous. 

What a load of  bullocks.

Bears can run as fast as a racehorse for short distances, and running may trigger their chase response.

Running into a Black Bear- Running Safety

LB - you better not go down to the woods today

Advice is judged by results, not by intentions.

Marcus Tullius Cicero

I don't think I could outrun a bear.   What if I trip and fall?

We were taught in wilderness survival not to run because the bear WOULD catch us and push us down.

At any rate I don't believe it is safe for a woman or man to walk alone.  That is where most of the sexual assault sprees happen on walking paths.

 Years ago, in the late 80's, I used to sell hot dogs at a hot dog cart outside the city's night clubs.  I knew all the town's drunks and party animals.  So there is me, young skinny and hot (the good ole days) 3am with a hot dog cart, nobody around, and a money bag tied around my waist, waiting for the boss to come in the truck. I felt reasonably safe.  Would I do it now? NOT IN YOUR LIFE.

It's good to be young and innocent isn't it trish?

The sad truth is that being out alone is not safe. It's not safe for anyone but women and minority groups are especially vulnerable. There is a lot of misogyny in the world and a lot of hate and violence. It's always good to be careful. Martial arts is GREAT. I used to go with my baby and hope to again someday. My dad used to work at Belk and at times if it was dark some of the female employees would get him to walk them to their car. He'd walk with them, then go back to the store. It happened enough he made sure to be around when it was time for people to go. My dad is not a body builder or anything like that, just an average healthy six foot even guy but a mugger (or worse) would far rather only have the 5' 6'' or so female who's alone to deal with . One thing I do remember from my self defense classes was in situations like that, if you can't avoid being alone, keep your keys in your hands and have some keys grasped well and pointed out. If anybody tries anything jam them straight into the guys eye. Also, scream and run. It sounds simple but those really are the two best things you can do, just make sure you run to where there is light and people, any people, not a dark or isolated place.

 carolla,

yes indeed.  partly innocence and partly because our little city has really changed these last two decades.  I don't even recall there being a homelessness issue back then.  Vernon has undergone some pretty stiff growing pains.A gas station or store robbery used to be big news then.  Now they are in the paper but only a small blurb and you only take interest if you work there or are friends with/related to someone who does.  The hard drugs and organized crime have a foothold here now too.  

Depends on where you live

I can see the boonies being dangerous all those cannibal trailer park people ....

Large cities with nightlife and traffic ahhhh not so much