I have known cases, when I worked at a Northern Hospital and the question came up if a doctor would perform a termination (given the gestation)-it was definitely for birth control

Of a friend who got pregnant with her boyfriend when they were both young teens

But much easier and reliable birth control is available-including the Plan B pill

I've known of sexually active people who use no protection: no condoms, no birth control pill, etc. When they get pregnant - which is bound to happen - they go to the clinic and have the pregnancy terminated.

I must be old - I just can't imagine using abortion as a prefered choice for birth-control - there are so many easier, cheaper, more easily available methods available.   Are these women well informed about reproduction, from before conception, through gestation?  Do they know of the various forms of birth control they can use? 

Yes, I am pro-choice, and I can imagine many situations where abortion might be the best choice for all involved.  But I can't imagine anyone choosing to ignor or reject all the other methods of avoiding conception, and using abortion as their prefered form of birth control.

A lot of women, especially young women, are not well informed about birth control.  Their parents don't teach them and in a lot of cases their schools can't or won't teach them.

Women do know the options regarding birth control.  We learn them in health class and from our peers starting at a young age.  But using birth control takes a little effort and a little planning.  eg. take a piil every day, see the doctor about that IUD or diaphragm, actually put that condom on in the heat of the moment.  And when the effort is not made...........oh well,  if I  get pregnant,  I will just have an abortion!  It is a choice used by some women, and I don't think education/intelligence has a lot to do with it.  

Technically, any time a woman terminates an unwanted pregnancy, abortion is being used as 'birth control'.

I doubt many people would call it that for someone who was raped though,   Nearly all forms of birth control have some rate of failure.  I think most would say that if no other method is used, then yes, abortion is being used a birth control.

How much caution must be used to avoid being pregnant before abortion isn't considered to be birth control?

I think that for young teens sex can be unexpected and not planned.  Getting the Pill can seem to be a scary idea and I suspect many young girls don't really know where to go for it.

I doubt many 14/15 year olds would ask their mother to set up a doctor appointment and I doubt many would od it on their own.

I suspect that there would be less teens getting pregnant if high schools were a safe place for advice and referrals but I doubt that all are.  I woudl hope that it might be an area where guidance counsellors had names of places to go.  but I don't know if they do.

I suspect alot of teens do what my daughter did.  She asked to see a dermatologist for her acne issues which were pretty.  But that dermatologist put her on the pill because it has the nice side effect of helping acne.  She wasn't sexually active at the time but it was some advanced planning

I think one a bortion because of no birth control is ok.  Repeated lack of birth control is plainly stupid

I think that for young teens sex can be unexpected and not planned.  Getting the Pill can seem to be a scary idea and I suspect many young girls don't really know where to go for it.

I doubt many 14/15 year olds would ask their mother to set up a doctor appointment and I doubt many would od it on their own.

I suspect that there would be less teens getting pregnant if high schools were a safe place for advice and referrals but I doubt that all are.  I woudl hope that it might be an area where guidance counsellors had names of places to go.  but I don't know if they do.

I suspect alot of teens do what my daughter did.  She asked to see a dermatologist for her acne issues which were pretty.  But that dermatologist put her on the pill because it has the nice side effect of helping acne.  She wasn't sexually active at the time but it was some advanced planning

I think one a bortion because of no birth control is ok.  Repeated lack of birth control is plainly stupid

My kids were brought up in a home where sexual issues were often brought up by us parents.  One became pregnant claiming that the much older boyfriend assured her that she coudn't get pregnant the frst time.  The fact that all the real adults in her life had told her the opposite meant nothing to her.  I have heard many other similar stories - kids don't always believe their adults - kids have immature brains that seem to expect magic and miracles to occur!

My daughter became verbally abusive when I asked her (based on changes in her behavior) if she was pregnant.  I offered to go with her to the doctor to check and she refused 'because she wasn't pregnant and anyway it wasn't my effing business'.  One week later I asked her what the results had been at the doctors and she hadn't yet been - because she wasn't pregnant.  I reminded her that shewould have more choices about what to do next if she knew for sure.

She eventually asked a friend to go with her - which meant that the other people in the waiting room 'guessed' that one of the pair was pregnant - why else would two 16 year olds be at the doctors together?  Delaying almost put her beyond the weeks where an abortion could be done legally.

She chose to abort and for that she accepted help from us as she needed to get to a hospital a longish drive away.  It almost broke our hearts to be involved in 'getting rid of' (her term!) our own first grandchild.   

If abortion is used as birth control, I imagine it is in the cases mentioned above. I have met at least one young woman (teen) who might have used it as birth control. Even though was a relatively worldy teen, she was still a little girl who was in some denial. She was bound and determined to get an abortion once the time came where she could no longer deny. It was a tough process for her. I have also met several women who were placing their babies for adoption because they waited too long to be able to consider abortion. Generally, looking at abortion as birth control trivializes the situation that an unplanned pregnancy brings. 

Hi chemgal,

There is the technically precise answer which is anytime.  Abortion prevents a birth.  Period.  We can argue the why an abortion is acessessed but that will not change what Abortion is doing.

Then there is the perjorative comment which is most of the time.  Most of the time people lump abortion and birth control together it is with the deliberate attempt to paint a picture of thousands, if not millions, of irresponsible, young, women (Insert your Rush Limbaughism of choice here) are seeking abortions so that their good times can keep on happening.

Then there is the fearful query which is some of the time.  The fearful query is what happens when the perjorative comments come fast and furious and most often it is made by genuinely conscientous people who are concerned that a surgical procedure is being used to do what a prescription from a family doctor can prevent.

The trick is to know who is speaking and what the intent is when you hear the comment.

A good rule of thumb is to listen to how the women seeking the abortion are characterized.  If you hear a Rush Limbaughism then you can be certain that you are hearing the perjorative comment.

Grace and peace to you.

John

I think it becomes birth control when people know in their minds that they should use contraception, but also firmly in their minds decide not to because they could always get an abortion if they get pregnant so they don't want to interrupt the heat of the moment, or somehow decide it could never happen to them (without a medical verifcation of that)...and do exactly that when they get pregnant. I don't think an accidental preganancy (which can honestly happen...I know of someone who had endometriosis and was told that she could not conceive who got pregnant...she and her long term boyfriend decided to have the baby, but they weren't planning for it)...anyway an acciental pregnancy could not be considered "using it as birth control", imo...but if someone knowingly takes their chances and takes their chances repteatedly espceically, while in the back of their mind knowing they have an "out"...I think that could be seen as using it as birth control. 

However for immature young women/ teens, I am not sure there is an easy solution. I think Lastepoint's daughter's situation was a really good "back up plan".

I guess I didn't realize that we were talking about teenagers.  I was thinking more of women in their 20, 30 and 40s - some of them married.  I can't imagine them not using some form of birthcontrol - and only considering abortion if their preferred form failed.

With teens, I think sex is often unplanned, especially the first time.  Or they've received poor information (you can't get pregnant the first time, or if you are standing up, or if he withdraws).  Or they don't have ready access - my 15 year old granddaughter has never been to the doctor on her own, her mother makes her appointments and takes her.   Or they may be too embarassed.   And I agree - once caught is understandable; more than that is stupid.  Abortion is a medical procedure that carries at least some risk.  It is also an ethical decision that should not be taken lightly.

For an older (perhaps married) woman not to use birthcontrol to try to prevent unwise or unwanted pregnancy is irresponsible. 

Abortion should be available and rare.

Seeler, I'm talking about all ages.  Also, withdrawing is a method of birth control, and with perfect use it's failure rate is actually lower than some barrier methods.

Kimmio, the thing is though any time someone has sex they are taking their chances. They might be taking lower chances than others, but nothing is perfect.

Birth control should only be practicised by couples who are in a monogamous long term relationship, after they have been tested for STDs. In the world today, Teens, young adults and others need to understand the need to practices safer sex, which is more than just birth control, not only prevents pregnancies, but also prevents being infected by HiV amd HPV. HPV kills thousands of Canadians every year because it can cause cancers in both men and women. There is a vaccination for it that young teens can get, but there is no vaxination for other STDs like HIV,

If people are using abortion as their form of birth control they re still at risk of HIv. In the ninties I have known too many teens, ( usually girls who attended Catholic HIgh Schools) who have died before they were 30. This is happening less to Catholics who have access now to information on the internet.

Ths i somehow doubt that anybody today relies on abortion for birth control.

Those who do get abortions, either are inconsistant in using safer sex,or are just uninformed. I beleive that msot places that provide abortion, also give out information safer sex, and That people if they are able to, and free to do so, will choose to use other ways to prevent pregnancies.

Thus i am very suspicious of some who claim that people actually only use abortion as their method of birth control. These people also tend to be against birth control, and see safer sex as being hust as immoral in their eyes.

Alex - what would you propose we should do about the people who DO have theinfornmation regarding safe sex and birth control but simulaneously believe, like my daughter, that they know better than the adults who give them information?  She wasn't planning to use abortion as birth control - she just chose to not use a better method and decided she wasn't ready to be a mother.  When I asked about STD's she claimed that she was too healthy to catch one of those.   Sharing further information didn't change her mind.  After the aborion she was on the pill - but knowing my daughter as I do, I doubt that she took them according to instructions. 

I wasn't happy about her choice to have an abortion but I defend her right to take that option.  At the time and In hindsight I can't think of any advatage to her continuing with the unplanned, unwanted pregnancy.   She was headstrong, immature emotionally, many years from financial independence, unwilling to eat healthily, drinking too much.......she's my kid.  I loved her then and love her now.

In High School (1970s), I knew lots of people, including myself, who had sex without any form of protection. In a large part this was because we couldn't get birth control in our rural community and wouldn't even know where to start trying to get it in the city. When the girls became pregnant about 85% of them had abortions (figured out how to do that, with their parents help). The rest of them just vannished - who knows where - leaving school and never to be seen in our town again. I always thought of this as using abortion as birth control.

That's true. Unless they've had a hysterectomy or have fully been through menopause, then there's always a  small chance even when contraception is used...and people make mistakes, the "heat of the moment" can happen without much rationalization...it's human....I was moreso referring to the situations where people decide to take their chances repeatedly using no protection. It's probably more common in teens/ younger women (early 20's) I would think.

Alex, while birth control and STI prevention are related, they are still 2 different things.  I think there are some people who only use abortion as birth control and no other methods.  I suspect that most of those women are ones who assume they won't get pregnant or get a STI or simply don't even think it through.

[quote=kaythecurler]

Alex - what would you propose we should do about the people who DO have theinfornmation regarding safe sex and birth control but simulaneously believe, like my daughter, that they know better than the adults who give them information?  She wasn't planning to use abortion as birth control - she just chose to not use a better method and decided she wasn't ready to be a mother.&nbsp

well for me the problem is similar to smoking or doing drugs. People might be educated but because they beleiev I won't get an illness, or I won't get pregnant they subcounciously reject the need to protect themselves. Howevr jsut as we treat people who develope lung cancer, and do not claim they are using chemo and radiation to maintain there health while smoking, i do not accept that women who end up pregnant and have abortions are using abortion as birth comtrol.

Those who have three four or more abortions are IMhO are dealing with issues that are related to the same kind of denial that diabetics who fail to control there diets are. We do not deny there right for treatments.,

It just means we need to look at underlying issues and with a long term goal of changing attitudes. feminism and the right to control one's body is key. Healthy living and harm reduction for dangerous activities are the way to go. I just do not believ that people choose unhealthy ways of living unless there are other issues. many use to think, that if they were prepared for sexual activity they would be consdiered bad, or if they refused the demands of a boyfriend to do risky activity they were not showing true love. I somehow believe that yoir daughter truely believed she would not become preganat and thus did not see the need to use protection, or to be sexually active in ways that reduced or eliminated the risk of pregnancy or STDs.

Thee can be changed, and are.

I believe we are already seing a reduction i the number of abortions as attitudes change, and as girls, boys, men and women becoem more empowered by feminism and education. And the reduction in shame imposed on sexually active people.

"Judge not, lest you be judged"

What I am reading is people passing judgement on others.

Just to be fair, I got pregnant in my twenties despite polycystic ovaries aned using a condom... Accidents do happen. 

I have not terminated any pregnancies, including when I got pregnant at 15, and my daughter is also a teen mother, but regardless of your moral judgement on whether or not abortion is "right", women still need access to safe abortion. Period.

I agree.

and Judd, you're right.

I absolutely agree with Judd and femmemomma.

This is something that came from Facebook and Twitter that sums up my views:

"Thou shalt not mess with women's reproductive rights." ~ Fallopians 4:28 (via the internet)

Suggesting that abortion is being used as birth control trivializes the issue considerably.

and many years ag o, when I worked at a Health Unit, the study on abortions showed that at least &75 % of women asking for abortions hHAD been using some form of Birth control. It just hadn;t worked.

The pill isn't the only reliable option these days. You can get a shot that suppresses ovulation.I know  family where the girl was sexually active and her mom too her and paid for ths shot as a condition of living at home-we are talking 18 here.

I didn't mean to suggest that I was against abortion, nor was I judging anyone.  In the abortion thread in politics a few people said something to the effect that they aren't a fan when abortion is used as birth control.  I just wanted to get a better feeling of what people mean when that expression is used.

Abortion is legal.  So is birth control.  Both are established methods whereby a woman can exercise her free choice as to her own destiny and that of her body.  Trying to discern the intentions of someone having an abortion is a mug's game.  One thing is clear ... someone having an abortion doesn't  want to give birth.  In this trivial and obvious sense abortion is always birth control.  It is an exercise of free choice.  Those who would deny a woman control over her own body are against free choice.  The abortion as birth control conversation is designed to obscure this fact.  The fact is that in todays society both birth control and abortion are tools quite rightly available to a woman to control her own (reproductive) destiny. 

when they stop handing out sharp metal straws with each pregnancy, that will be the first sign of the end times...

O

M

G--is that an angel flashing hir junk at me?  Martha, bring me my Queer Cannon...

Hi chemgal, I wasn't aiming my last comment to you. You asked a legitimate question. I was just expressing a pet peeve. I think qwerty says it better. Of course, in his way of stating it, abortion is birth control. At the same time, we can never know a woman's motivation for having an abortion, or using birth control for that matter. I am strongly in favour of free choice. I can get a little passionate at times.

Thanks Northwind.  Qwerty, I agree with most of what you said, but some women having abortions do want to give birth.  They just might not want to give birth to a baby who will be in constant pain, or in who will be in a vegetative state, or who will have a dead or very sick mother.  You're right though, it's birth control in those instances too.

Kimmio and Judd, I don't see many judging comments here.

I was thinking about my own judgmentalness is all chemgal.