That depends.

It depends on the social workers and how much they choose to disclose.

That depends on how much the social workers know.

That depends on if there is a knock on the door and the social worker has three kids with her and asks the children in front of you if they want to stay with auntie chemgal

Serena, that's very much the type of situation I would want to avoid!

Are there different types of foster parents and it would be emergency or short-term where that would happen, or can it happen to any foster parent?

Hi chemgal,

That would depend greatly on the type of fostering you sign on for.  At least that is how it seems to work in most jurisdictions here in Ontario.

If you sign on for respite then you pretty much agree to take whomever shows up on your doorstep.  It is typically short-term and you may see the same child on week-ends, every other week-end or perhaps one week-end a month.

Respite is typically week-end work and that allows the long-term foster parent(s) a brief reprieve from the responsibility of fostering.

If there are certain things you cannot deal with or are not prepared to deal with be upfront and rather forceful about that.  Space is always at a premium and if you are soft on any boundaries they will be run over immediately.

Also bear in mind that not even the worker you deal with will have complete histories on each child they work with.  Many know only what brought the child into care and what events have happened while the child is in care.  Few appear to have any appreciation of mental health issues other than to acknowledge that there might be some.

Long-term fostering requires a very stable and very tolerant home.  It is definitely not for those who are soft of heart and weak of will.  Happy endings are for after school specials most of the children in care are broken and damaged, some irreparably so and that can create extreme pressure on what is typically a happy and healthy household.

We fostered one child continuously for the past four years.  This past June we were forced to terminate the fostering agreement.  There were several serious glitches along the way and we were very clear that those glitches were not to happen again.  Ultimately we were confronted with a rapidly deteriorating situation with respect to physical violence, and grave suspicions about the validity of earlier diagnoses that lead Children's Aid to believe we were a suitable match.

We don't blame CAS for the medical bit.  Needless to say we once more realized that many doctors and physicians in the psychiatric profession are more miss than hit. 

Until we were finally forced to have this child removed we never actually realized just how negatively his behaviours impacted upon the whole family and how limited all of us were due to his care needs.  Because it took roughly a year for my wife and I to finally wind up on the same page regarding the future of this fostering placement our marriage took a tremendous beating.

I realized I have very little patience for anyone assaulting my family.  No matter how much smaller the assailant.  The physical violence was far more pronounced and serious at school.  Still it was a matter of time before before weapons would be used here in the home.

I'm glad that for us, it is over.

Grace and peace to you.

John

My daughter's friend and her husband fostered teenage boys for several years - both short and long term.  I believe they kept one of the boys from about age 14 until he reached adulthood.  He was the only one with them when they started their own family.  Eventually they had three children.

When they started fostering again it was specifically children younger than their own - infants and toddlers.  One pair, brother and sister, were with them for over a year until they were cleared for adoption and went to a permanent home.  Most placements were much shorter. 

Because they were willing, they sometimes got emergency cases.  A phone call and a half hour later the social worker arrived on their doorstep.  In one case it was the middle of the night, two children wrapped in blankets dressed in nothing but wet diapers.  She kept a dresser full of baby and toddler clothing suitable for both boys and girls - as well as stacks of diapers.  She had two empty cribs at the time.  And only one other foster child.

(Because this is a small place, and story was in the news, of the police being called to a domestic dispute and, among other things, removing the children the same night they arrived at her home, it was obvious where these two had come from.  They stayed with her for several months.   Ordinarily we might hear that A----- had a couple of new children but she never disclosed any of their backgrounds so I have no idea how much she would know about them when they were dropped off.) 

RevJohn and Seeler, out of curiousity I looked at the government site about fostering.  It does not give any of that type of information!  RevJohn, I think you have more patience than I do.  I'm not in a position where I could foster now, it sounds like much more work is needed on myself than I thought though.

If you could go back in time would you do it again?

If I could go back in time I would not do it again. It was a terrible year.

chemgal - I imagine it is different from province to province. 

I only know what this woman told me.  She took in teenagers when it was just her and her husband.  Later, when they had a family of their own, they took in babies and young children.  They were prepared and willing to take kids on short notice - often these were temporary placements but sometimes were extended.  She didn't share any background knowledge she might have had about these kids.

It stands to reason.  If you have cribs or youth beds in your two spare rooms, you aren't going to be taking in teenagers.  If your dresser full of emergency clothing only goes up to size 3x, or even to 6x, you aren't equipped for older kids. 

I also think that not only the fostering parents, but the social worker, would look at the mix.  Would it be appropriate to place a troubled 13 year old boy in a houseful of toddlers? 

Hi chemgal,

If we knew then what we know now we would never have agreed to the placement.

The cost to our whole family has been enormous.

The benefit to the child?  We may never really know.  Regrettably this child was damaged, most likely in utero, though how damaged will never be precisely known and part of a potential diagnosis would depend upon the mother or a witness coming forward and affirming what we suspect is truth.

That is not about to happen.

As it turns out the boundaries that we had so clearly set with respect to violent behaviour were fit and appropriate in the beginning.  It only became obvious as the child grew that he was living outside of the boundaries that we could accept and by then, we were committed/trapped.

Part of the trap was the conflict between being a resource for this child who had great need of resources and protecting a family which had already endured quite a bit of violence.

As things deteriorated old wounds were ripped open and healing which had only begun quite recently, came undone.

In all fairness to CAS they couldn't have seen this coming.  It is also something of a shot to the throat of nurture and behaviourist approaches.  This kid is in deep trouble and without specifically knowing the nature of that trouble strategies to address trouble  might be as effective as pouring gas on fire.

We'd switch up tactics and eventually he would adapt and work around.  If he had been at all conscious of it I would have been incredibly impressed.  Instead I am fearful for this child and for his well-being.

At present we are re-evaluating our role within CAS.

We are better aware of our personal and family limits and we have a better understanding that try as hard as they might CAS cannot give any guarantees that a new placement would not take us to the same places we have already been with our son and this past foster placement.

That said, I know of a woman (the mother of a friend) who has fostered close to 1, 000 children through the years.  Doing emergency respite, and long-term.  She has had several dust-ups with families of apprehended children showing up at her door (seriously, the woman has taken so many children in that if you had CAS apprehend your child in the middle of the night you'd be foolish not to go to this woman's home first if you were trying to take your child back).  She is very no-nonsense (I wouldn't mess with her and I'll go nose to nose with just about anyone).

She is amazing and the help she has provided is the closest thing to capital "S" saintly that I have ever seen.  She is now going to Africa 6 months out of every year to help with an orphanage in Malawi and she is in her 70's

If our family had even a fraction of what this woman has we wouldn't hesitate for a second.

Whether we do or we don't it may just be that fostering isn't our thing.

I am fairly patient and I have enough self-discipline to know when I'm about to lose my patience and I have coping mechanisms that keep me from blowing my stack.

When I saw that kid punch my wife it was only that discipline that prevented me from going up on charges.  And that put this kid in a dangerous place.  As I said I grew up in a home where the threat of violence was constant and I can let threats of violence against me roll off of my back like water off of a duck.  When violence is directed against another member of my family . . .those threats don't roll off well at all.

I suspect it will be some time before we allow our home to be a placement.  Which stings only because we know how vital foster homes are.

Grace and peace to you.

John

RevJohn, I assume this is the son you've spoke of before?  I didn't realize he wasn't your biological child.  Not having his history must make things much worse in getting the best treatment. 

I would have thought that if a child had extreme mental problems, they would be placed in more of a medical type setting rather than a foster family.  If the problems weren't apparent at first, isn't that when the case worker should be recommending a change?  The situation you experienced is worrisome.  It's understandable why there aren't enough foster families!

I also came across this last night:

The Alberta Foster Parent Association(AFPA) formed the Foster Allegations Support Team (F.A.S.T.) in 1990 to help foster parents and their families cope with the turmoil and confusion that results when an allegation of neglect, physical, sexual or emotional abuse is made.

Many more things to consider than my first original thoughts, but that's why I asked, well before deciding it's something I would do for sure!

Hi chemgal,

Nope.  The stories related to my biological child have a similarity.  These are stories related to our foster child.

The foster child was brought to us because of an ASD diagnosis and we were the only parents in the fostering system with a high level of experience and understanding of ASD.

So much so that we doubted the ASD diagnosis when we first read the paperwork and arranged a visit with the Doctor who provided the initial diagnosis.  He wasn't very convincing in person either.

In all fairness case workers are swamped.  They cannot possibly mangae all that they are expected to manage. doubling the number of case workers would only be a start.

Second, because they are overworked they burn out quickly and that means new overworked caseworkers trying to get up to speed on more files than they have time for.

There is also a shortage of spaces, be they foster placements or institutional placements.  Waiting lists for consults are incredibly long when you are in crisis but reasonalble when you aren't.

The system is in trouble.

I can take my child to a doctor when I am available.  When I have to coordinate with a case worker availability becomes difficult.

As scary as it is for those considering entering the fostering system, imagine the nightmares of the kids at the mercy of it.

Grace and peace to you.

John

Sorry RevJohn, I assumed that after having difficulties with one child you wouldn't volunteer to go through it again with another.

Maybe St.John is a better name :)

I agree, the system is broken.  It's bad enough when there are issues and someone has their family support.

Hi chemgal,

We had a good outcome with Robert.  Those who know him now and never saw him in crisis find it hard to believe and those who know him and saw him in crisis are impressed at what a gentle young man he has become.

We thought that we had the skills to help out another child.

We were not looking to go through with somebody else what we went through with Robert.

Nobody planned it.  Things just shifted that way.  CAS couldn't really know, we didn't suspect it and the kid doesn't think that he is doing anything that warrants all the attention and a group home environment.

Somedays it is.  Alas I am far too human and my humility is not misplaced.

So very true.

Grace and peace to you.

John

I had some experience of fostering.  The first time with a pair of female teens.  They were both disturbed emotionally having had a tough life thus far.  One managed by trying to be 'perfect', the other seemed to rejoice in being difficult.  One kept running off the other got a lead on the location of her siblings and left to find them.

Our runner spent time drinking, doing drugs and selling her body.  She is now dead.  The other managed reasonably well for a while but also fell into a bottle.

I was asked to accept two younger children - right now -  agreed to keep them for no longer than a week.  I phoned the office daily to remind tham to find another placement (the children wee much the same ages as my own and this was causing problems for all of us). The children stayed until I threatened to dump them at the worker's office.

 It is unfortunate that there isn't a good system that actually works. Even more unfortunate that there are unwanted children, abused children, hungry children.

I'd like to see Canada put the well being of every citizen at the centre of political decisions.  To me it makes more sense than buying weapons, cutting funding to schools, health care services and  valuable assets like National Parks.

My experience with the CAS was much less than ideal or heartwarming.

Don't try to tell me that they always act for the protection and benefit of the children. They are definitely not altruists.

I have fostered 4 kids all of which would rather live on the streets than fall into the clutches of the CAS.

One is now an honours college student. Two are back with their father. One - my favorite - hung himself in the basement last August.. It broke my heart. He was 17.

The only thing worse is the ignorance and backward procedures and laws in Ontario surrounding mental illness - especially for minors. Someday (I pray) the scandals will out on them. The truth would shake you to your roots. Sending a child into the public Mental Health system in Ontario is tantamount to a death sentence for a huge portion of the children - especially those from poor families.

My days are almost done. My race is almost run. Someone else will have to take up the torch now.

From what I am reading here it doesn't sound like fostering a child is something I would want to do. It sounds very traumatic in some instances. I have two children of my own who are more than a handful so I don't think it is for me at this time. Now that being said someone has to be there for them don't they?

Dreamerman - I think it would take a special kind of person (or couple).  I thought about it occasionally, but I never seemed to be at the right time or economic circumstances, and when I think of how we've managed to screw up our own two kids, perhaps it is just as well. 

Hats off to good foster parents!

Yes good foster parents are weight their weight in gold.

New Years Eve, sitting with friends, my wife and I talked openly about fostering.

I can simply say that we were being talked out of it by one of those friends who works in CAS and not in entry level status.

It was not that we are not "the type" or anything. It was that in their professional opinion they see the system as such a mess. That they perceice that the system cannot function, let alone provide assistance. That they see kids so damaged by being left in homes, being shipped around, by abuse, by FAS, etc.... this person worried about us.

I felt for how hard it must be to be a foster parent in the system.

My heart broke for the children in that system.

i fostered for many years when i lived in ottawa, and it was an AMAZING experience.  of course there were problems, but they were FAR outweighed by the great times, and my kids are much richer and brighter for it as well.

we looked into it here in winnipeg, and it seems like a completely different system, and i'm not sure if it would be as good a fit for us at this point.  i am getting ready to host an exchange student from japan next month, and based on my initial contact and meetings with the organizers, this is looking pretty good.

i can talk at length about how the system worked for us in ottawa, if you have any questions....

Sighsnootles - I remember when you first came on the Wondercafe, you shared some of your experiences, and I remember thinking that if I were a kid in care, I would like to have you for my foster mother.

He dreamerman,

In many instances (probably most) it is.  And even in those traumatic cases there can be an outcome which is good for the child and society in general.  Unfortunately a good many children who come into the system come in profoundly damaged and deeply scarred in ways that are not readily apparent.

Sadly the system (at least in Ontario) is different from region to region.  They all have the same framework, the same rules, the same regulations, and yet, for whatever reason there can be a tremendous disparity from one city/county to another.  There is also, in some instances, a strong desire to clear cases.  Ours was one.  We originally entered the system with thoughts of adopting.  The process was less than fluid and filled with many errors, omissions and later, retractions.

The hype is that when you step into the process as a foster parent or potential adopting family you become part of a team.  I have to confess, that I have worked with much better teams than our local CAS.  And while I am honest, they responded very quickly to our criticism and that included a 50 minute session where I very calmly raked them over the coals for lack of professionalism.

Unfortunately once trust is damaged it is hard to rebuild and even the smallest set-backs can build on the mistrust.

For us.  Once our trust in the CAS was damaged it became very difficult for that to be rebuilt.  To their credit, they did try and we ultimately came into the orbit of workers in the system who exemplified professionalism.  We also were forced to deal with Mental Health Services (No family should have to do that more than once, it is exhausting) and  diagnoses made without any kind of actual diagnostic evaluation.  No thanks, we did years of guesswork which almost cost us the life of our own son, not really interested in more of that while we watch another life hang in the balance.

And to make matters worse, if a crown ward dies while in your care there is no way that  becomes a walk in the park.

And yet, there will be some children thrown into the system who manage to escape it intact and well-adjusted.  I hesitate to use the word miracle when it is what should be expected everytime.

Someone has to be there for them.

Regrettably if that someone was willingly there for them from the beginning they might never find themselves in such a system.

Everybody in CAS (or whatever it is called elsewhere) no matter how willing, is always a plan B.  When plan A fails it is rarely anything less than spectacular.

I admire all of those who commit to fostering and can keep with it.  Year after year, child after child.

Grace and peace to you.

John

Me too! I have had the priviledge of knowing some excellent foster parents. Last year, for example, I witnessed the changes that occured when a deeply troubled 5 year old boy got put into foster care. His foster parents and siblings were wonderful. When he went into their care, he had the language skills of a child half his age and would never call anyone by their names. More importantly, he had violent tendencies - and no understanding of consequences. About a month after moving in with them, he called me by my name for the first time in the nearly two years that I have known him - I'll admit that I had tears in my eyes when that happened! His foster parents got him the medical and psychological care that he so desparately needed - and got him into some neat-sounding cultural programs (both he and the family were First Nations). It was obvious to me that they truly loved him and thought of him as one of their own children and I saw the changes in his behaviour almost immediately. By the end of the year, he was one of the most loving and empathetic children in our group. To me, it was an ideal foster family situation.

Sighsnootles, do you know if Ottawa did something that helped with the experience that some other places don't do?

I have two experiences with fostering in the Cambridge and the K-W area, and by way of the K-W, the Toronto area.

In both cases, the individuals were already parents of older children.

First, the Cambridge one.  Many years ago, my best friends mom fostered with a particular area of expertise.  She fostered babies especially babies which had physical challenges at birth.  She would fatten them up, get them healthy enough to get adequate diagnosis and/or treatment in order to go into a more permanent foster care or adoption situation.  In some cases it was simple, in others, it wasn't.  One child in particular I remember who was born without an anus. She told me some mornings it was a flip of the coin if she would have coffee first and then go change the crib etc (from the bag leaking/breaking) or go change the crib, etc, then drink the coffee.  I hadn't thought what her daily life was like. All I had seen was this little guy with a colostomy bag attached to him.  Later, she said to me "do you want to see the cutest little bum ever".  It was a celebration as he had undergone his last surgery and looked and functioned like any other person now.  He then was able to go standard care.   She also eventually adopted a child that had been in their care for a number of years from infancy  (his mother committed suicide, and grandma died of old age).   She was a warm, kind woman who dealt with infants and helped them as much as she could.

Next, a Kitchener couple whose husband I worked with.  He & his wife also fostered.  At first they fostered with an interest in adopting.  Later they fostered.  They did run into issues with the foster care system in one region.  They became the go-to parents for another system. In part, I think the challenges were that they knew, like RevJohn when something was not as it appeared due to challenges with children they had.  (The two children they adopted had the same mom -- later on it was clear there was a predisposition to a severe mental health issue which ultimately took their daughter's life -- they were able to keep her alive for 5(?) more years that her mother had made it but not to the number that normally would mean they would survive through adulthood)  

The good news is that family raised many children from extreme situations, including children that were never thought to have any hope.  In some cases the children were only able to move into a group home, but, considering what their prognosis was at birth that was a HUGE success.

They went into it with eyes wide open, they owned the relationship and were able to walk away when necessary and adapt their home to changing requirements of children.  For example, for one child they had to put a lock on the fridge.  Why? The child had lived in a crack house where food was not always available so had learned to hoard at an early age.  He was gorging and hording in the middle of the night and when no one was watching.  By putting controls / training / support in place they were able to help him learn that food would always be there when he needed or requested.  Big step, tough story.  

** fixed a couple of spelling/word / grammar errors.  sorry for the repop 

from what i have seen of fostering here in the west, ottawa is almost considered to be the 'gold standard' as far as foster care goes.  i recall that one horrifying report that came out in saskatchewan, and quite a few times they would use ratios and programs in ottawa as 'the norm' by which the complete breakdown of the foster care system in saskatchewan was measured by.

ottawa has comprehensive training for foster parents, both pre and in service, and does everything it can to ensure that all foster parents have access to it - they pay mileage for you to get to the training, they cover the cost of your childcare while you are there.

here in winnipeg, there is a very limited pre service training, but thats it.  there is no inservice training for foster parents whatsoever.

imho, when an agency hasn't even gotten to the point of continuing education for their foster parents, they are REALLY in the infancy stages of becoming a foster care system that serves the children decently.

Fostering is like coparenting with a drug addict. I found that the social workers would lie and say they didn't say things they said. Everything was my fault. The parents would have visits. They'd do things like cut the little girl's hair all crooked. When their visitiation was taken away the parents started going to the school and finding out what we were doing. So the parents, grandparents, friends, and uuncles and aunts began stalking us and of course the kids would run to their parents. I complained to my caseworker. They didn't care. They sent a driver once to pick up the kids from school (and didn't tell me) so I was at the kids' school waiting. No kids. I called the worker. She had no idea we thot that the parents picked them up. Then I was told that the kids were being dropped off at my home. So I drove home. Just b4 I got home my school where I worked phoned me angry bc they were babysitting MY kids and wanted to go home cuz it was Friday. So I went back to mys school. (This was in another time not 5 min accross town)

I have countless examples of this nonsense. Never again

yeah, serena, i remember when you were going through all that, and i couldn't believe what an incompetant bunch of yutzes you were working with there...

every time i see that province complain about how they just don't have enough foster parents, i roll my eyes... after what you went through, who WOULD want to work with a system that treats you like that??

friends in saskatchewan have stated the same type of thing... no respect for them as people with careers or jobs OTHER THAN fostering.  one had to take time off work just to get through one particular issue, because the agency wouldn't support her or the child. 

really, who can work under those conditions??  they tell you that you cannot rely on the income from fostering, but then they turn around and make it practically impossible to have a job anyways??? 

that is a system pretty much DESIGNED to fail.  and throwing more money at it isn't going to fix it, imho... they need to tear it apart, and start from the ground up.  my work with the ottawa CAS showed me a system that WORKS for the kids in its care.  other CAS agencies in canada need to examine how they work, and then build their CAS based on that example.

Sighsnoodles said"really, who can work under those conditions??  they tell you that you cannot rely on the income from fostering, but then they turn around and make it practically impossible to have a job anyways??? "

Now they are expecting foster parents in Alberta to drive the children to their parental visits and supervise the visits. Parental visits can range from 1 to 8 hours. Often the natural parents don't live in the same town or city as the foster parents. It is the foster parent that needs to drive to the birth parents. The home visits are scheduled between the birth parents and the social worker without the foster parent being consulted. So ya this would also make it impossible to work. They just don't get it.
 

Serena, are there different types of foster parents in Alberta?  If so, did that partially factor into your negative experience?

Chemgal;

No they are pretty much the same.

My story is not isolated. Many foster parents have had similiaar experiences.