Is summer school an option?

Maybe school is not the place for her?  Perhaps "traditional" teaching methods don't work for her.  I had a teacher in highschool who refused to allow us to write any notes while he was teaching.  We had to remember what he said in 10 - 15 minute blocks, then he would allow us to do our work.  Many people in my class struggled with his style.

Have you had her hearing and her eyes tested? 

Does she have trouble comprehending the written word (because she failed her written exam in swimming)?

What does she see herself doing as a career?  Perhaps she doesn't see how math relates to being a lawyer and so doesn't put any effort into it?

Good luck!

I have a friend who's daughter "unschooled" for a year.  She basically did whatever she wanted.  She was in Alberta and I am not sure of all the details of how she passed the required curriculm.  If you want more information,  I can ask her.

 Hi Birthstone. If you really want to get an indepth look  at different educational theories, I highly recommend reading Alfie Kohn, specifically, his book The Schools Our Children Deserve: Moving Beyond Traditional Classrooms and "Tougher Standards.

It really was an eye opener for me. So much so that I have changed my whole teaching philosophy. Kohn argues that traditional classrooms really do not teach our children anything but how to memorize facts and figures with out the opportunity for students to create their own meaning. Kohn is a huge proponent of progressive education, and so am I. I am part of the constructivist school of philosophy in terms of education and learning. Constructivism posits that people create their own meaning based on prior knowledge. and children are no exception. Many schools say that they are constructivist, but read Alfie Kohn and you will see that that is not true at all.

 Another good theorist to read is Howard Gardner, a Developmental  Psychologist from Harvard and pioner of the Multiple Intelligences theory (another wonderful eye opener). He is also a constructivist.

Basically my point is many classrooms are teacher centered and not student centered. Constructivism turns that on it's head and makes classrooms student centered. If your daughter's classes are teacher centered, that might be the problem. The more Kohn and Gardner I read, the more my own teaching philosophy changed. They really were eye opening.

I highly recommend reading as much Kohn and Gardner as you can.

Like I said, I am a HUGE supporter of progressive education. And don't even get me started on this stupid and useless EQAO testing. What a complete waste of bloody time for both teachers and students alike.

Anyway, that's my rant. I hope this helps. Basically what I am saying is that your daughter's grades and schoolwork may not be totally her fault. I believe that traditional classrooms do a major disservice to students. I would be more than happy to discuss more but I have to step out. Send me a wondermail if you wish and I will get back to you.

The profile of your daughter closely resembles that of the daughter of  good friends.  After a great deal of frustration the parents sought professional help to discover their daugher had learning disabilities and a personality disorder.  Once these were addressed her life completely changed.  She is in her fourth year at university, and plans to pursue a Master's degree.  Hope that provides some encouragement and hope for you.

As an educator for many years, I encountered students - both male and female who exhibited similar traits to your daughters.  Usually there were underlying causes.  I think CF's comments above are very valid - the present classroom environment simply may not be conducive to your daughter's learning style.

thanks - I'm reading the responses... will get back to you.

Yes, she has glasses, and eyes were tested recently.  Her hearing is a-ok, especially if you mention snacks, grandma, ice cream etc.

actually, in the past we have discussed ADD (not ADHD) solutions for learning, close to the teacher, away from distraction like the door or window.  I think it helps, but her classroom participation is never a problem, it's retention & recall of details, and use of information.  We have worked hours at laying out a plan for a project or written item, but we do it everytime.  It helps, but I wonder at times if I'm coaxing too much, so that she is only accomplishing it because I'm leading her there.

She is social but not a popular kid, she won a citizenship award, but no academic ones. 

She has a coordination disorder, so her motor skills take tons of practice, then she's ok.  But she took to the piano really well, although she gives up and doesn't bother. 

We try to make sure she has different experiences - plays, musicals, outdoors, church, youth group retreats, leadership opportunities, Bronze Medallion etc courses, - hoping something jumps out...

I'll read more of your responses now.

Birthstone, this is a hard place to be as a parent … wanting your child to do well, to succeed in school, or to pass the courses anyway. Consumingfire has tapped into a big area … the way we ‘school’, the classroom, the box, the guidelines set in place by government and school boards that ‘regulate’ how and what info is taught, and so on and how these factors play into an individual’s learning style. In addition to the possible systemic limitations for your daughter, it may well be there are other factors getting in the way. What is the reason(s) behind the seemingly limited motivation? What is the reason for her challenges with memory and information processing? Perhaps there are learning challenges, perhaps language processing difficulties – it could be that no matter how hard she would try or no matter how much tutoring, perhaps something physiological is getting in the way with memorizing and processing information. Has she ever had an assessment? Sometimes important information can be gleaned with regards to learning strengths, challenges, styles, and then alternative learning tools can be utilized. That information is also helpful for teachers to learn about a student. It sounds as though you have already considered tools helpful for individual’s with attention, focus challenges – that’s a good consideration.  Perhaps there would be other helpful tools out there with a little more investigation.

And just to add … generally high school is a pretty standard  – although many school boards do have alternative programs that might be a better fit for some students. It’s hard to hear when students have challenges with getting through high school, for many and varied reasons. I wish it was easier for your daughter – and for you as parents working with her, feeling the worry and frustration. Your care and support is evident. I’m thinking about you.

If this is any help. My son struggled so much in school.He was popular and liked by everyone ( teachers included). It was in late high school that we found that his reading comprehension skills were the problem. It was a learning disability but in the current school  regime, it was never picked up by anyone.

Show him, hands on he excelled.

He is now 34 and has an extremely high profile job. Great at it. On his way to his first million.He has been taught all kinds of tips to overcome the reading /comprehension skills that he lacks. If this had been picked up by anyone, years earlier, he would have done so much better as a student. But I have also come to the conclusion that not all kids are university material. Some  do so much better on the technical side of things.

Just came home for a quick bite and to fix some spelling issues in my post.  I have to pop back out. I just wanted to let you know Birthstone that there is a math program called Jump that has recieved good reviews. I will try to find out more about it and whether or not there are books for high school.

Love you guys  

So do I head into her guidance office and say "its time for some assessment?"  Is that a good step? 

I am also leery of our traditional school system.  Boneswife, that was interesting about 'unschooling' - but still important to see what replaced school in her routine.  Perhaps travelling and volunteering and so on? 

& CF, buddy ol pal, I think I get what you're saying about child-led/ learning built on memory...

- would it make sense that the info she gets settles into her brain along familiar patterns of experience & comfort zones, but if it is finding nothing to settle on (ie the algebra doesn't jive with her love of family) then it is lost.  And for some, who think comfortably in a mathematical way, the numbers & patterns fit right in, even methods & patterns of writing structure etc.  But for her, where it is very emotional, the patterns don't have a good way of settling in.  She would fare better with themes she chose and immersing herself in a topic but with varied ways of learning about it?

This is what I worry about with tutoring.  Her tutor comes and they work for 1 hour, and sometimes, it seems like there is value, but the retention for the test doesn't improve particularly.  And more work sheets & practice doesn't really fix that.

In one sense, I'd love to unschool - just take that pressure off her for awhile.  In another, I want to see her discover some success in some methods that work, and get her moving forward.

YES, YES, YES, and YES

That is exactly waht Alfie Kohn and and Howard Gardner suggest.  Howard Gardner suggests that there are 7 intelligences and that we all poses them to varying degrees. Here is the list, and there meanings (obviously a very brief overview):

1. Linguistic Children with this kind of intelligence enjoy writing, reading, telling stories or doing crossword puzzles.

 

2. Logical-Mathematical Children with lots of logical intelligence are interested in patterns, categories and relationships. They are drawn to arithmetic problems, strategy games and experiments.

 

3. Bodily-Kinesthetic These kids process knowledge through bodily sensations. They are often athletic, dancers or good at crafts such as sewing or woodworking.

 

4. Spatial These children think in images and pictures. They may be fascinated with mazes or jigsaw puzzles, or spend free time drawing, building with Leggos or daydreaming.

 

5. Musical Musical children are always singing or drumming to themselves. They are usually quite aware of sounds others may miss. These kids are often discriminating listeners.

 

6. Interpersonal Children who are leaders among their peers, who are good at communicating and who seem to understand others' feelings and motives possess interpersonal intelligence.

 

7. Intrapersonal These children may be shy. They are very aware of their own feelings and are self-motivated.

 

So, if your daughter is having trouble with math, it may be because that specific intelligence is not the prominent one, so to speak. That does not mean she will not understand math concepts and skills, we just need to find out which intelligence is most prominent and use that to help her. For example. I was horrible in math (grades to embarrassing to post). So no matter how much my math teacher browbeat me with math facts and concepts, they just did not make much sense. If my teacher took the time to find out that my most prominent intelliegence was music, he could have found a way to conect the two that nade sense to me, thereby avoiding frustration. As soon as I started thinking about math concepts in musical terms, math started to make more sense to me.

So, I would contend that if you discover what your daughter's most prominent intelligence is, you might be able to make the conection to math (and other subjects) through that. There is MUCH more to the Multiple Intelligences theory, but that is a really basic overview and how it could be used to help students make connections to concepts they find hard or are having trouble with.

Alfie Kohn suggests that if students are allowed to create their own meaning based on their prior knowledge, concepts begin to make sense, there is more retention and more actual learning. Teacher talk and teacher directed learning must be kept to a minimum and students must be allowed to explore.

Obviously, there has to be some degree of teacher direction and that is were Lev Vygotsgy and his theories of scaffolding come in. There is a Zone of Proximal Development (one of Vygotsky's theories) where students need some teacher direction, but when the concept (such as a math concept) has been introduced by the teacher (the More Knowledgeable Other), the teacher then allows the student to explore the concept and create their own meaning. That is still a constructivist philosophy of education and learning, just with some teacher direction.

Basically, a constructivist classroom where the teacher limits teacher talk to a minimum and allows the students to actually think and create meaning is much more conducive to the teacher talk and directed classroom. A good example of a constructivist philosophy of learing and education is Montessori.

Your praragraph I quoted above nailed the constructivist philosophy pretty well there, Birthstone my dear.

Aww Cf,  my dear, many thanks!!  I am aware of Multiple Intelligence theory through some of the Church ed. programs I've done & constructed.  

However - she isn't in a Montessori, she's in high school.  And I can't afford a private school!  Are there companies that tutor that way? 

Her intelligences would rank as spatial or interpersonal, perhaps some level of musical.  Her art is not neat & organized, or even good, but she is drawn to it, and loves colour and photos etc.  In her math, she is best at graphing. 

Her interpersonal is hampered by not being the coolest, but she is confident in many ways and speaks up.  She is wonderful around adults (ie -at church, she is very happy around her elders, and happy to help in the kitchen or whatever).  This is probably her strongest.  She remembers dates and organizes our lives and is always thinking about what our plans are and who we're going to see soon.

Her musical part is undeveloped too, she balks at too much work and would rather just sing to the radio, but she picked up the basics of piano very quickly and sings/hums/etc a lot.

 One strategy that has worked for some parents (combined with other things) involves getting students to understand the link between what interest them and their school work Bearing in mind what consumingfire has said about education, that is something very difficult to do.  However it has worked for people I know. My Dad was a bad student, until he linked his passion for hockey, and hockey statistics to math. He ended up passing High School and getting his BA and a degree in engineering.

Hey birthstone.

I have a friend whose daughter dropped out in grade 10.  Just couldn't cope with the stress.  She attends a program down at North York somewhere.  for teens who are having trouble coping with school.. If you want i can ask her for the name of the program.

Here's my two cents.

Does hse like here school?

She swims.  Is she athletic enough to get into a sports school.

Is she artistic/dramatic/ might she try out for Etobicoke School of the Arts?

My daughter went there and it is a school full of off beat quirky kids.

I helped my kids study in 30 minute periods.  At the table with me. ( pof course that meant i wrote alot of letters and read alot of books.

30 minutes of work, a break, a drink, a run aroudn teh block .  then another session.

Lastly, does she get enough sleep?  Sleep is important for retaining acts.

and yes, i woudl speak to the guidance departm,ent.  It is their job to help your daughter succeed

oooh, so much here..and sounds familiar.

Definitely the testing is worthwhile...see if you can get it, or if it would be covered under any private health care plan you are taking.  It is not cheap, but, if well done, worth it.  Before you book somewhere, see if you can find anyone in your school system who will share with you whose reports they value...

I am aware of at least one person whose son struggled..and they tested after high school..and found out what hte issue was...went back to school -- helped a bunch.  The testing allows you to both understand the cause of hte issue, and find the ways to trip your brain into learning....example -- building blocks may be the issue...so spend lots of time on those..then the rest will come..

Hi Birthstone. I just threw out the Montessori as an example of a school that is constructivist in nature.  They really take into account as to how children learn. A good tutor will find out how your daughter learns and plan sessions based on that. That is the good thing about constructivism, it takes into consideration that all students do not learn the same way. There is not much in the way of differentiated teaching strategies in classrooms. 

I will continue to rack my brain and try to come up with some strategies for you. What is your daughter working on in math at the moment?

Just what Pinga said.

And yes, I would suggest meeting up with the guidance counsellor to outline your concerns and questions. I am not sure what the procedure and possibilities would be in your school district for a psycho-educational assessment to come from within the system. That's the best way to go typically - the psychologists (and also Speech Language Patholgists depending on what the student presents with) test and report with info helpful for the teachers and parents. There will likely need to be someone at the school (teacher, guidance counsellor) recommending the assessment and then there would be a school team meeting and if the team agrees then your daughter would be put on a list - could be quite a wait depending on the school board. If testing at the school is not possible then private testing - while yes expensive  (could cost up to about $1500 here in Vancouver) could be very worth while and could make a difference in your daughter's life.

Agreed..and in your families lives, which is why it can be covered under each of your "psych" amounts.  Example-- her coverage alone, your coverage (learning how to support your duaghter), your partner's coverage (learnign how to support his daughter), your other children's coverage (learning how to deal with siblings frustrations, etc).  

By doing so,you appropriately are utilizing the coverage offered to each family member, rather than burdening your duaghter's deductible with it all.

In addition, although I struggled with using our private coverage and "jumping the queue", I was advised by someone whose opinion I value that it was disrespectful and unfair to those in the queue if I took a much-needed spot, when I could use my private coverage.  I was like '''oooooh, hadn't thought of it that way -- i guess being a comrade isn't appropriate if it just pushes the comrades further back the line)

 Public schools have options too.  The public high school I went to had advanced placement courses, flex (independent learning), and the programs where you get a bunch of your credits from shop, hairdressing, or a part-time job.  There was also an art based learning curriculum at one of the public schools, I don't know how it worked exactly.

Going to the guidance office now rather than later would probably be a good idea.  They can usually offer suggestions about ways of learning once someone's learning style is determined and they should also have information about various programs, even if they are at other schools.  I think some tutoring companies (like Sylvan) will also examine learning styles and structure their tutoring around that.

I think it's a good idea to do some exploring of your daughter's learning profile,  Birthstone.   This sounds like a long-standing pattern of difficulty with homework, tests and time management, and it also sounds like you have worked very hard to provide effective support and strategies to help her with her learning.

If you are able to get a psychoeducational assessment, the very least you would discover would be her relative strengths and weaknesses, which is always valuable.  There is also the possibility that a learning disability could be discovered.  If you've talked about ADD, it also couldn't hurt to take her to a really good physician, and look into it further. 

(We recently decided to pay for a private psych-ed for my son.  We knew he had ADD, but we discovered he was both gifted and severely learning disabled.  It rocked our world, and has ultimately been so empowering for him, as he no longer thinks of himself as "lazy" and "stupid".)

It's really the Bronze Medallion exam that grabbed my attention;  usually when kids are interested and motivated and confident, they will do much, much better than when they have to study boring stuff like socials or math.   The fact that she didn't pass her exam when she was so enthusiastic and confident makes me wonder if there might be something underlying her learning which is significantly impacting her ability to achieve to her full potential. 

Hey Birthstone ... we used a private company years ago for psycho-education assessment when our daughter was encountering school problems - I will wondermail you the name.  We were very satisfied - they were very low key, come to your own home to do the testing & talking, provided excellent detailed report and coached us on how to approach the school.  We paid privately - maxing out the private insurance billing option - the company is familiar with that need & bill accordingly.  

In our region - there's precious little hope of having a thorough & useful assessment done by the school board, unfortunately, as she is managing socially & not creating daily havoc in the school.   Even if she was, the testing is hard to come by these days I think.

 From what you've said though, I'd be pretty certain she has some processing challenges - and the assessment will be valuable in understanding the details & compensatory strategies.  And of course, the adolescent hormones & high school life just add to the mix!  Good luck!

And just for the record the bronze medallion written exam can be very hard. I failed mine at 14, one question was to draw the heart and indicate blood flow throough it-I didn't have a clue (they wanted the 4 chambers).

Passed it with an easier multiple choice exam the next time I took it!

Psyhco Ed  assessment does sound like the way to go.

Thanks Tabitha - she would be grateful for the affirmation that the Bronze Medallion is a serious test.  She did the multiple choice, and only failed by 1 (the pass is 75%). 

Carolla, Diana, CF, Lastpointe, PInga, Myst, chemgal & Alex - thanks for adding your thoughts.

The assessment sounds like a go - I just told my sweetie what you all were saying, and he says we have enough coverage.   

CF - she's suffering most with algebra gr. 9 applied.  If she doesn't improve, she'll fail the exam.

She is not athletic or artistic enough for a focused school.  Do they have schools for funny, laidback friendly kids?

Lastpointe - I like your plan of 30 minute study sessions.  She always does best if I'm nearby and paying attention, which is hard but we try.  Sometimes we fight about things though if I'm hovering.  Usually because she's trying to avoid work.  But its the best way.

Chemgal - if Sylvan bases their work on learning style, that would be a step up from where we are now.  I'll look into it.

Diana - when she failed the Medallion test, I got worried too, just because I was counting on it to give her a boost of confidence that she could handle tests.  I'm not totally shocked, but I was surprised.  I was hoping she could connect personal interest with ability to pass.

Carolla - I'll email you in the morning.  Presbytery was long, and I'm off to bed.  :)

((((you guys!!)))))

Birthstone, I am also reminded of Graeme's affirmations.

Successful school does not mean successful in life (or work)

Successful in life does not mean successfl in school

I listened to a presentation my son will be giving to a group tomorrow.....and was moved.  School isn't his passion...but when he writes about somethign he loves...and cares about, the power is there.

so... from one parent to another....breathe.

yes yes yes.  I agree.  and he is a fine example.  I just don't want to squander this time - should I rephrase that:  I don't want her to squander this time, simply because she is too young to value it now.

We're trying to let go of anger around this and rather support her in taking responsibility. It can be exasperating, as her attitude around it doesn't match ours.  We're always aware of giving our kids different experiences so that they learn at the Science Centre or on a trip or by hearing from diffferent voices.  We value that too. 

But I'm going to call Carolla about these assessments and I'm going to talk to the Guidance Dept.  Maybe we can salvage school for what its worth too

Agreed, Birthstone.  My point was not to dismiss your efforts, but to say, ....remember to breathe.

Hi birthstone

i did find my kids worked best when i was there but i didn't help them or even really ask what they were doing.

I did other things but sat there with them.

Make a pot of tea, write your parents, start a journal, balance cheque books.......

I got lots done that year and it only took the year for them both to get into a better study mode.

i personnally think it impossible to sit down and work for three hours.  I just don't think you can.  But 30 minutes at a time, with a break adn then again works well.

It may be too late for this year but I did it for studying for exams too.

i woudl make a schedule, they make their own now.

But say they had math, science, history and english

I would make them a grid  ie

monday 

4 - home and snack

4:30 - Math chapter 4

5 break

5:30 science chapter 3

6 supper

7 math - review chapter 4, start 5

7:30 break

8 science reveiw ch 3

8:30 break, shower tv.....

Each day to study two subjects broken down into smalll pieces.  In my kids schools they always got a study guide /review package that listed what to work on , which books, chapters.......

Lastpointe, sounds like a great plan, and wish I had had your knowledge / this thread when my kids were younger.

I need to internalize that format, Lastpointe.  Sadly we don't get the school-provided to-do list past grade 6.  I'm relying on her report of her homework, which is sketchy at best. 

Don't even get me started on homework. Another colossal waste of time. Kids spend enough time at school. Why send them home for a second shift?

Well, I would call the school and ask about a study guide.  That is crazy.

My kids went to different schools, one private, one public and both got an exam prep list.

It would be quite specific about what the exam was covering.

Perhaps she gets it but doesn't bring it home because it seems overwhelming????  My kids would come home with this big list of chapters and topics and be frustrated.  But then when i helped them break it down into 30 minute study sessions they could see how it all worked. ( if you started two weeks ahead, nott the night before)

Back to your original question about Tutors.  I am iffy on the usefulness personnally.

My son was pretty good in math through grade 6.  Then in grade 7 his new school did an accelerated program where they did 7 and 8 in one year.  Yikes, he fell apart.  Mid year I went to a tutor.  She was interesting as she said to us that he was quite "gifted" in math.  The problem he had was that at simple levels he intuitively "got it"  The old X + 3 = 7   X = 4 was obvious to him.

So he never actually learned how to do it, he just knew it.  Then when it got more complicated he couldn't go back to how to do it because he didn't know.

So she was helpful at reteaching basic skills.

but then what i found was that my son would save up a weeks worth of confusion for her.  All week i would say  " how was math today"

;'fine"

"did you understand everything"

More or less

Did you go for extra help after class

No, I am seeing Susan tomorrow..........

He stopped asking the teacher, the teacher stopped knowing he didn't get it and the cycle continued.

We finished the year with the tutor and he wanted her next year. Begged actually and we said no. It was easier to ask her rather than wait to speak to the teacher but he stopped trying to get it on his own.  We did not use a tutor again and that was better.

I also wonder if others in the class are struggling.

Is there any thought that the teacher might not be good?  or might be over their heads? or has an accent she doesn't understand? or covers things too quickly? or doesn't give after school/before school help?

And lastly, is there any thought she might have hearing or sight issues?  Sitting at the back adn needing glasses??

No hearing, or sight issues (she has glasses).  The teacher is fine, and this problem is not new at all, so there is nothing new that has happened, except the intensity & compounding issue of more & more math.  It also is other classes too, but not as completely as in math.

As you described about tutors, Lastpointe, I see a similar problem happening with our tutor.  She's ignoring stuff and assuming 1 hr / week is going to correct that. 

As others have suggested, processing is probably an issue.... 

Darn - Carolla - I didn't get to call you today!  soon.

Amen!!  And if you have to give homework, let it be meaningful practice or optional enrichment rather than "read 20 pages in your textbook that I didn't have time to teach, then answer 20 questions (a-d, please), in full sentences, by tomorrow."    *sigh*

Sorry Birthstone.  Just had to vent.

nope, I'm with you folks mostly.  Usually, the main solution for my daughter's trouble is .... more work!  more practice... more struggling... with no clear support for the concepts anymore.  However, I can't bring a teacher home for her (except our tutor) and I have to trust she's going for her after school help. 

She needs the practice & confidence, but at her level it needs support.  She also needs time to help cook supper or play with the dogs or hang with friends or do chores.

Birthstone,

I can see me there next year, when my son wil be in Grade 9.  Structure is often the key to everything, but unfortunately the kids don't get that and put up resistance.

My son is this year almost an A in math, because the so much feared math teacher does mini tests every other day- so it sticks better in their brain. While his english and social study teacher doesn't like homework and can't get himself to tell the kids a proper due date for every assignment.

How about a summer job to make money and proof herself? It can also give realistic view on what kind of jobs you are going to be doing if you don't have an education.

Or volunteering?

I do think that parents today seemed to be afraid to teach their kids that there is some stuff you just have to do it, wether  you like it or not. And if you don't, you might end up with  jobs where you have to do stuff you don't like for the rest of your life. So it's worth sticking it out during school, to have a better chance.

Birthstone, after years of my nephew struggling and not doing well in school, my brother and his wife got an assessment.  He was about the same age as your daughter is now when he was assessed.  I can't remember what he was diagnosed with but with the diagnosis the school was able to put supports in place for him, so he could do well.  The main thing I remember is that he was allowed to use a laptop for notes and homework because he lacked the fine motor skills to take notes and write for tests fast enough.  He graduated college in the winter and is starting his own business now.

Lastpointe, I'm worried that my son will have the same problem that your son had with math.  He is pretty intuitive about math.  He got in trouble and is doing worse than usual in math right now because he won't show his work.  I try in impress on him that he has to learn the processes involved in math because it gets harder.

 I would bet that he doesn't show the work because he doesn't know the steps. He just knows the answer.

I would get the teacher to do some after school work on more complex equations and help him learn the steps.

My son was a "skip to the answers guy" too in math - not because he didn't know how to "show" his work, his really just couldn't fathom that anyone would think it necessary.   He's very bright, and values "economy of effort", shall we say - really, why take time & paper write out a bunch of stuff that need not really be there?  His rationale.  BTW - his Dad is math teacher!