Boots,

Great question. We just started into the drug conversation about the end of last year as our eldest was then 10 and started to hint at it.  I still don't know what I am doing completely, just going by ear.  We did initiate it as it came into our world.  If you see someone smoking a joint, for example or whatever and your son is curious, then is the time to start talking.  keep the converstation going and keep it current.  You can't let the kid believe that he/she can fake you out or that they would ever want to fake you out of the science of the situation.  I went hard core on my kids, because they gotta know that they don't have the genetics to survive any type of drug curiousity.  All I have to do is pull family members out of a hat and parade the tragic stories.  I can even use myself, because, I'm one of them.

Yeah continue to fear it and it will be right on top of you ......

You say you love him then why are you setting him up to get clobbered ?

Have the talk

talk about everything .... be open , be honest but keep the female paronoia at bay ....

kids can and will try some things once ..... no matter what you say ...... 

dealing with it by not dealing with it is a surefire way for things to go downhill

people create exactly what they fear ......

I feel that he is just growing up too fast and should not have to deal with issues like this yet.

Nada YOU don't want to deal with issues like that

YOU are projecting your insecurities much like another member on this forum ....

you want your little boy to be your little boy forever .....

YOU would prefer he not grow up .... but he will

 the question is ..... is he gonna have any guts to deal with anything at all

Grow some cojones darling .......

We really don't need another generation of pansy boys !!!!

Nice to see you agian.

I know my son will grow up and of coarse I wan't him to be my little boy forever what mother or father dosesn't want to perserve that youthful innocents as long as possible. The being said that is why we invented camcorders and cameras.

And I also agree that we do not need another gengeration of pansy boys but, he is only seven. When did you have this talk with your parents? If you are a mother when did you have this talk with your children?

You may think of me as a "helicoper" parent but alas I am not. The kids who are eating snow and playing within eye shot and ear shot but not within reaching distance our my kids.  I am one of the parents standing outside in the "parent" group talking about stuff. Not the parent in the car nor the parent who is helping their four plus year olds climb snow mounds and help them with there tobbagans.

.

I think a lot depends on your neigbourhood and the people you and he hang out with. Here in NS kids get a program called DARE in school teaching all of that in Grade 5.

Before that we had conversations about peoples behaviour and living circumstances. The kids that get in trouble and why. What choices do the kids make, what rules do they have or don't have. The kids that hang out in town at 11 o clock at night, no supervision. You want him to choose the right friends and distinguish between right and wrong ones to hang out with. If he learns to make good choices and resist being a follower, if he learns to put off immediate gratification- this all forms the character to say "no" at the right time. Do you have someone who smokes or drinks too much in the family or neigbourhood? Tell your child what you think about it, what the consequences could be.Car accident in town with a drunk driver- talk about it.

What example are you yourself? Also don't forget the other drugs like pain medication- does every little booboo get a tylenol?

Unless you live in a really bad neigbourhood, I wouldn't do an official drug talk with a four year old.

ISorry, double post

That's one of the very difficult aspects about being a parent.

I remember my parents, and in particular, my mom discussing these things with me. They started talking about it when I was still very young - and it wasn't just a one day pep talk.

Almost every week, once per day, we'd have this talk. Turns out it was very helpful. The subject turned pretty redundant eventually, but by the time I entered my teens I knew all I needed to know about drugs and sex.

I think that it would be best if you started having this talk with your boy soon. You can take it step by step - not too much information all at once.

Hope this helps 

Sometimes a simple thing like watching tv together can provide a springboard to discussion.  You can ask your kids what they think about a certain issue if it comes up and give your opinion and information.

This is where I am glad that I am a grandparent and not a parent and I only have to get involved when they say something to me directly or it comes up in a TV show that we are watching together.  Then I try to be brief but honest - give them as much information as they are ready for but not the whole show.

It is difficult to keep kids innocent for long.  My daughter's friend's teenager had a baby at 15.  Naturally my little granddaughter knew about it when she was only six or seven.  Then one day she told me "Grammy, you know people don't have to have a baby if they don't want to."  and I knew that she had heard about abortion.  So I talked to her about choice - and how it would be a very difficult choice to make. 

Recently something else came up about people we know involving drugs and prison.  As I fumbled for words to explain, my granddaughter told me "Mum already talked to me about it.  I know Grammy." 

it's not easy knowing when, and how much they are ready for.

I got the talk pretty early ..... open dialogue is always best so is supervised exposure .... how aware is your kid ? about his environment .... people in the neighbourhood ..... does he interact ? make observations ? a thinking child is always the one who is going to make good decisions , and not just make decisions to go along with his peers .... peers have a stronger bond than they do with parents after a certain age .....

It's certainly never too early to learn how to trust one's gut instinct ... society has done such a great job of forcing us to not use our gut instinct because it's too raw and too primal .... turning out generation after generation of sitting ducks ....

if you are worried about all the badpeople in the world .... know that they pick their victims with as much care as you try to protect your kid from becoming one.......... in any of life's circumstances ..... and the badpeople think twice about trying to lure a kid who has his wits about him ....

i know my parents did their best with me .... It did not stop me from taking risks ..... some of them foolish ones ..... but at least i had the tools to get my ass out of things that could have gone much much worse ...... the key is having the tools better to have some tools than none at all .....

Thanks jesouhaite777

My oldest has a preaty good sence about alcohol and the troble that can occur.  My husband works with former inmates to be re intergrated into society so I am sure my oldest has heard a little bits of our conversations.

Mrs Anteater

The DARE program runs in Grade 5 here too.  His choice of freinds has been good so far and the school playgroud supervisor has informed me about his "good dissisions" in both who he plays with and what games he is willing to play at recess times.

On example that she gave me was one time he was playing a game with other boys when the game starting to bend the rules of the playground my oldest decied to leave the game and played with other kids. the first group of boys were a little upset but my son stuck to his guns saying the he did not want to play with them anymore because he didn't want to be a part of someone getting hurt.

I was impressed when I heard this.  I think he has a pretty good head on his sholders.

Unfortantly the only person that I know of in our family with any adiction was my grandfather who died when I was 6.

We only give out tyonel when there is a fever. Other than that is is cold pack or hot water bottles.  If it is a stomach ach ginger ale or even a tums.  Even our doctor only perscibes(sp) meds when absoulutely necessary.

My girl is 10 and so far we've told her she's supposed to be 21 to drink alcohol. As rare as it is, I never had a drink before 21 and I don't think my wife did either. We've not had much since then. She's not remotely interested of course. As for sex she really doesn't know a lot. She's got some basics on gestation, but not intercourse. She knows that breasts, pubic hair, and periods are in the not too distant future for her. I think that's enough for now. I've always favored a gradual approach to these things. I don't believe the "zero to sixty" approach is good, to keep kids completely in the dark and then one day unload everything all at once. I'm trying to give it to my daughter in little bite sized nuggets, spread out over several years.

 Considering that kids experiment with oral sex around 11 in some schools Jon I wouldn't be waiting too long to discuss intercourse, oral sex, anal sex........  Kids appear to think that giving blow jobs isn't really having sex so I think they can get easily introduced to it by "friends"

My kids school put on a great program which started at grade 4.  Very upfront and we continued it.

What is sex, why should you say yes, why should you say no.  ......

Alcohol , drugs ned to be discussed soon

boots,

Sounds you are raising some great kids. Worrying is part of the parent job, but we can do only so much. If your son has a sense for right and wrong, he's got some tool - like Jes said. Praying and trusting might substitute for the rest.

We haven't told our 18 year old anything yet, and he doesn't seem to be all that interested anyway. We lived in Alberta for a short time and when we enrolled him in school there the counsellor asked us if we wanted him to be in a sex-ed class or in a general physiology class instead. His mom chose the general physiology class for him. He hasn't taken any health classes at the school he goes to now here in Toronto so I don't know that he's gotten any information on the subject of sex at all. I'm not aware that he's doing any drugs. His only addiction seems to be to the Internet.

Believe me when i say he's getting on the sex info he wants to see there .....

Mostly he chats on MSN and reads Korean comic books.

Part of the approach we have taken thus far (my daughter is 6) is simply answering any question she asks honestly and with real words.  But I have been concious about letting her choose the pace of the information.  So we've talked about eggs and sperm, but since she didn't ask how they got together yet, I haven't raised that subject.  She likes to get information in bits, think about it, and then bring it back.  I'm expecting that next question in the next week or two :)

As for drugs, we've talked about the ones she sees around her, but no others.  We have a bit more time on that subject.

LOL Gosh I'm sorry that sounded too funny the way it was written

Eggs and Sperm

I used to wonder how the sperm got all the way to the kitchen to reach the eggs .....

I take your point, but right now she doesn't even want to kiss, much less anything more. Ironically in kindergarden she got in trouble for "talking and kissing boys". She even said it was o.k. because they really loved each other, with the sincerity only a five year old can have. She was off to a running start but has cooled off a lot since then. Anyway, we're keeping an eye on things and as she progresses, we'll tell her more and more staying in front.

I used to think that there was "The Sex Talk" and "The Drug Talk" and that was it.  Now, I've come to realize that they are both part of an ongoing conversation about life.  I had my first sex talk with my son when he was about 4 and his first drug talk when he was about 6 or 7 because he started going to the park around that time and there are drug dealers on our street.  From there the topics come up from time to time.  At times it was embarassing for one or both of us but now it is easier and I find that we can be more open and we are more comfortable with each other.  One of the things that I have done to help us converse is to set aside a few evenings a week where we just have talks about whatever, a new video game, how school is going, how my work is going, we talk about my mom sometimes and sometimes the subjects of sex or drugs just come up.

I think it is important to encourage every day open dialogue with children - and I'm guessing that you already have that kind of relationship with your boys, boots.  If children know they can ask questions - and that their parents will take them seriously and answer them - about anything - then hopefully they will go to their parents when they have questions about sex, or other adult issues.  Or at least if a parent asks "do you have any questions about . . . " hopefully they will ask.

I wouldn't worry about sex or drug education for a 4 year old, unless they specifically ask about it.  For the 7 year old, I would ask him a few questions to see where he is on these issues very generally, and then take the lead from there.

As parents we want to help educate and protect our children as best as we can.  Sometimes the best protection is education.  Yes, ultimately they will make their own decisions, but as parents we will have done what we can.

There is another important aspect of life that many of us hesitate to talk to our children about:  death.  Many parents are uncomfortable discussing death with their children, or they try to protect them by pretending that it doesn't exist.  Sex, drugs and alcohol, and death are all things that kids have to deal with sooner or later.  My thoughts would be to keep the door open,  answer questions honestly at their level of understanding, and if they don't bring it up watch for other signs that they may be ready. 

My stepson hasn't asked any questions yet, and I doubt that he ever will. He seems to have no interest in connecting in any meaningful kind of way.

Last night I tried to initiate a heart-to-heart talk with him on something. I asked him if he ever got homesick, ever missed his home country of Korea.

In response, he asked me if I had been drinking.

ah but frog you have written that you got angry when he had a young woman over and no one else was at home... Hmmmm.

What gives?

It isn't appropriate for him to be alone with a young woman. My wife and I were working and they were at our home together, behind closed doors. It doesn't look good. People may talk. In the Bible we are told to avoid even the appearance of evil.

Frog-You missed my point.

If the concern is entertaining young woman alone it's more than time for talking about sex and rights and responsibilities and may even house rules. Maybe a family meeting with the 3 of you-maybe you and his mother need to talk first.

Saying you haven't told him anything and then he's entertaining-there might be a dangerous knowledge gap there.

Meg Hickling's 'Speaking of Sex" is a great place to start for all ages-like age 5 up.

And I brought home a box of condoms and put them under the sink in the bathroom. To much eye rolling I told my kids they could check them out-the ones they saw in health class were collected again (to eliminate their use as water bombs in school). Kids were 10-15 at the time.

Thanks everyone!

I am planning a "Mommy and Oldest Son" day soon and I hope to ask him about things as beloved stated.

My oldest has a good understaning about death but it is something that we have encountered within our family with in recent years and he still remembers a little.

Death is another one of those awkward conversation to have too I am sure.

Thanks again everyone and God bless.

My son went to a therapist when he was younger and one thing that she said that really struck me was that people (including, maybe especially kids) tend to believe whatever is told to them on about a topic first.  Death, sex and drugs are topics that you might want your kids hearing from you about before they hear weird crap from their friends first.

Something I found in bringing up these subjects is that after I acknowledged that we were both embarassed to be talking about it, it became less embarassing and went easier.

My daughter's mother told her about sex.  That seems reasonable.  If we had a son I would have told him about sex.  I told her about drugs when she was in grade 5 because I learned about drugs at school when I was in grade 5.   I have not talked to my daughter about death.  Maybe her mother has.  I will bring it up on our next weekend visit.

There are some excellent resources out there about how to talk to kids about death.  Avoid the religious ones.  In our case, it was easy, because my wife's father is deceased, so very early on Natalia wanted to know about where that Grampa was.  She's also had a few peripheral experiences with it, so that has opened the conversation.  At 6, she is more than capable of understanding the concept of death.

Maybe we'll buy him a book. Wonder if they have "Sex for Dummies" in Korean. It's actually his birthday this coming Monday. What a great gift idea, Tabitha, thanks.

Well if you are creditting me with the book idea Frog I'd suggest a graphic novel or even better a dvd

We started when they were still preschool age but kept it to a level they could understand.  When they observed something about men or women, we acknowledged what they said and explained it a little at a time.

Please, Tabitha, it's hard enough for me to find books in Korean. At any rate, I'm not concerned. He's one of his mother's problems, not mine. She can deal with him, or try.

frog you puzzle me.  Do you not like this boy.? You speak so poorly when you talk about him.

You also said he is 18 I think.  He already knows about sex, intercourse.  He may need a talk with his mom, definately not you, about the responsibilities a man takes on when he has intercourse.  Emotional, physical and ultimatelyresponsibility  towards an unexpected baby.

I would certainly hope someone has been frnak about birth control.

As to it not appearing proper that he be alone with a girl.  Get you head out of the 50's.  Firstly , if your neighbours are that inquisitive you should move.  Secondly, you delude your self if you think banning teens from being alone in your house in any way cramps their ability to have sex.  Cars, parks, motels, friends houses, school, behind the bleahcers, .....  Teens need to understand about rrespect and responsibility  but this is a conversation between his mom and him.  Afterall, you appear to be a virtual stranger to this boy.  What a sad thing for him.

You're right, lastpointe, I do not like him all that much. I basically got stuck being his step-father when I married his mother. I think of him as very lazy and socially isolated. He has no respect for me, and very little for his mother. Much of this is not his fault. His mother was so busy working as a single mother that she did not take the time needed to teach her sons things like politeness and respect for others. Now, I'm not saying that all single parents fall into this trap, but my wife did. I try to love him, or at least make a good show of it to keep things peaceful in the family. He pretty much rejects any attempt I make, however, to be a good step-father or even friend to him. He is very sensitive which all too often comes off as being cold and rude. I really am looking forward to the day when he leaves us to go off to university. That won't be for another couple of years though.

He shows no interest in sex. He does not seem to be straight, gay, bi, or anything else involving other people for that matter. He just does not care. His interests lie only in his computer.

*chuckle*

What a sad thing indeed. However, as I said, he rejects each and every attempt made by me to get to know him better. If he is isolated he is so as his own free choice. He does not seek to be social in any way. He attends school as little as possible. He certainly does not attend school sporting events, dances, parties, etc. This is his own choice, by the way. I would love it if he were more involved with other people.

Firstly is he 18?  Is he finishing high school or in college?

Secondly  perhaps he doesn't approve of you and his mom and has issues there.  Or perhaps he is depressed.  He sounds like he could be by what you say.

There is no question that becoming a step parent to a teen is difficult and i have no experience with it.

But I think you should figure out how to do it.  It would satr i imagine with honesty, mutual love for his mother and perhaps finding common ground for an activity.

If he feels this dislike from you or if he feels that he can't meet your standards for behaviour, it is no wonder he has issues.

But

you were the one that entered his life through your marriage.  You entered it with your eyes wide open.  His life was rolling along just fine and you disrupted it.  That , i think , puts the onus on you to find a way to at least become social friends.  Not best pals, just tow gusy who love the same woman and would do anything to help her be happy

How much do you know about his cultural heritage that could go a long way into understanding how he feels and what he feels .....

I remember that you mentioned that he reads comic books and I'm thinking no..... he probably reads manhwa better known  as "manga." comics .... maybe you could look into some of what he reads ...get to know some of the characters storylines ......

.what kid or adult does not enjoy comics , graphic novels and the like ... a little piece of common ground could go a long way .....

really getting to know someone not just on the surface level .... try a new technique not just the techniques that work and are easy for you.

i know that i would not want to get to know someone who had little reason to get to know me

jes - I don't believe that Frog understands his step-son's first language - the language in which he does his reading for pleasure.  That would make it hard to relate over his comics.

From what I have read in Frog's posts I think he cares deeply about his step-son and has made efforts to reach him.  They mainly have been rebuffed.  He is concerned about this quiet reclusive boy and would like to reach out to him. 

Frog - remember that you are the adult in this situation and keep trying.  There are days when we don't like other members of our family (sometimes I don't like my granddaughter very much when she is stubborn, rude, uncooperative - but I love her).  Love is deeper and more important than like.  Continue to love your step-son.  Continue to forgive.  Continue to reach out, even if you are rebuffed.  Surely somewhere, sometime, it will make a difference.  You may never be as close as some fathers and sons who have shared a relationship since birth, but he may come to see you as an important person in his life.

Don't give up on him yet.

Ouch, jes, you'd better watch out. You're losing your edge. I sense no trollness in this reply of yours. It actually sounds like a pretty good idea, thanks.

I did offer to share with him some of the comics I enjoyed as a kid. Spider-Man, Daredevil, X-Men, stuff like that, but he showed no interest. I never thought of doing things the other way. Doh!

I've now put on hold through the Toronto Library one manhwa novel. We'll see how things go.

He's in grade 11 right now. He's a bit behind because of his English level.

Perhaps.

Yes, I agree. However, his mother disagrees with my idea to take him to a doctor for a medical test. According to her, it's really bad form in Korean culture to single one individual out. She has agreed that the whole family will seek counselling, and that if the counsellor suggests my stepson see a doctor, then she will take him. I believe counselling may be available through my work, it used to be, however I haven't been able to find out any more current information on this.

Yes, I imagine that would be the key for most teens. The challenge is that he doesn't seem much interested in any activities. I really do believe that he is depressed.

I like that, I really do, but I didn't really go into it with my eyes open which was a mistake (isn't hindsight wonderful). His mother kept us from meeting. Many times when she and I were dating I asked her if I could meet her son, and she always had one reason or another why that could not happen. What I should have done is refuse to marry her until I had gotten to spend a certain amount of time with him. Live and learn.

Ouch, jes, you'd better watch out. You're losing your edge. I sense no trollness in this reply of yours. It actually sounds like a pretty good idea, thanks.

Awww man I better cut back on that darn chocolate cake ............

seeler, I have no words to express my joy over reading this post of yours. You have truly reached my heart. All I can do is thank you for your encouragement, empathy, and inspiration. It brought (and is bringing) tears to my eyes. I promise that I will not give up on my son.

Update: my stepson has recently been diagnosed with ADD. He has been prescribed medication, and is starting a new alternative school in February. This is an answer to prayer. I trust everything will work out well for him. 

get anything from The New Speaking of Sex by Meg Hickling, RN. Part 1: What Your Children Need to Know and When They Need to Know It. Chapter 1: Let's Talk

Boots its Boots where have you been.

My mom left the EXCELLENT book on sex for young adults by Alex and Jane (?) Comfort...the "Joy of Sex" authors, at any rate. It was thorough, and direct and I felt well informed and was able to make good choices when the time came. And some dumb ones, but nothing too scary, or even unusual. And I was able to take resonsiblity for myself and not depend on some smooth talker's "trust me, it'll be fiiine".

My boys and husband have been doing 'the talk' about these sorts of things for awhile.  It was actually the X-box game Fable that started the conversations, and while that won't work for many, it helped 'open the door' for the conversation that's Really Hard.  The game is rated "M/Mature". From what we (hub and I) can gather, this is due solely to the 'sexual content' in the game: the hero has the opportunity to have a girlfriend and to have sex with her (for our purposes, this works ok--we're already well into the 'gay is a way of being: like white, or left-handed, or afraid of spiders") with or without a condom.  Well, there are consequences, naturally, of using one or not.  And there you are: discussion abounds!

Jon, as a former 10 year old girl I have to say: get the book, the video or the game that will help you or your partner or whoever get to that conversation with your daughter.  The WORST teacher is that cute boy in grade 7...just sayin.  ps: Our Bodies, Ourselves was a great book, and probably in your local library.